Any report of yesterday’s conference needs to start with acknowledging the huge debt to its principal organisers Martin Empson and Roy Wilkes who coordinated the arrangements from their Mancunian fastness and gave up several Saturdays to travel to London for organisational meetings.

Maybe it is too early to say definitively but the event felt that suddenly a section of the trade union movement in Britain has decided that climate change is an issue that it has to make an urgent priority. There were at least three hundred people present and the majority of them were neither part of the far left nor any of the established environmental groups.

The morning plenary was chaired by the Green Party’s Jean Lambert. First up was Frances O’ Grady who you’ll probably know has been TUC Deputy General Secretary since January 2003. In common with the accounts that follow this summary is based on my scrawled attempts at note taking so apologies to all those who feel that I haven’t done justice to some of the nuanced subtleties of the discussion. She began by saying that the battle against climate change is part of the the struggle for global justice because the poor and vulnerable of the earth, those who have been responsible for the lowest amount of carbon emissions will be the most severely affected. You can’t argue with that.

Apparently Adair Turner of the Confederation of British Industry has said the this very fact creates a moral duty on the rich to mitigate and reduce their emissions.

Willie Walshe of British Airways took the advice to heart and has planted eighty trees in his back garden. He’s also using his Mercedes less. I urge all readers of this site to do the same.

Addressing the employment consequences of creating a low carbon economy Frances called for training, re-employment and investment in future technologies. She also proposed a windfall tax on profit making energy companies to offset fuel poverty and pointed to the challenge of recruiting and organising young worker to meet the challenge of climate change.

Caroline Lucas of the Green Party returned to the theme of employment in a low carbon economy and explained that it would be labour intensive, requiring people to work on recycling, repairing and reusing products rather than just manufacturing disposable commodities. Referring to Green Party policy Caroline put the case for contraction and convergence and what she called a “border tax adjustment” which is a tax on imports from polluting countries (I think).

Matt Wrack of the Fire Brigades Union began from a fire and rescue perspective. His union’s research suggests that there has been a double digit percentage increase in heath and grassland fires in recent years. Ninety percent of Ilkley Moor was destroyed by fire. Along with fire his service has been responding to major floods in parts of the country. He made the case that these events can be planned for but need to be properly funded and that many of the new flood defences are inadequate.

According to Matt he overheard a government minister say that climate change is the most serious case of the market’s failure imaginable.That’s a New Labour minister.

Unusually for him Matt got a bit radical towards the end. He told the audience that only the organised intervention of the working class movement can stop climate change and went on to say that a sustainable future does not require the working class to pay the price. The needs of ordinary people have to be put before profits. God knows where he picked this stuff up!

“The deeply unjust capitalist order is responsible for climate change driving the world’s poor to death and destruction!” MichMeaThe surprising radical of the day was Michael Meacher who, if memory serves, was the first speaker to mention the war. He gave a well informed speech looking at energy use in power generation, transport and homes. One nugget he shared was that the waste heat from the power generating system in the United States would supply the energy needs of all Japanese industry. Blimey!

There were five workshops. I went along to the one given by Jutta Kill of FERN. She achieved the impossible and managed to make a talk on carbon trading comprehensible and interesting. I’m going to nick some of what she had to say for our Socialist Resistance meeting on Wednesday. You can get some idea of what she had to say in this New Internationalist article.

The workshop on sustainable cities was delivered by Glyn Robbins, our assistant deputy catsitter. My take on the discussion that followed was that it showed how little understanding of the issue there is. Lots of people were able to talk with some fluency on the subject of council housing and the meeting rarely got beyond this level to talk about transport, energy use or water. We all still have a bit of learning to do.

Jonathan Neale opened the second plenary. His delivery reminded me of Orson Welles’ sermon in John Huston’s version of Moby Dick. That is a compliment. The style matched the subject. The data from the Greenland ice sheet indicate that that previous global warming events happened very abruptly following a longish period of slow rises. The action that is required has to happen in his lifetime and he is fifty nine. The earth needs to be covered with systems to generate wind, wave and solar power.

It’s not enough to lobby and persuade governments. This situation requires a global mass movement to force them to take action or that will replace them. Scientists have told the world what is happening but now we need to move beyond the scientists, NGOs and environmentalists. The engagement of millions of ordinary people is required and unions are the way in which they can be mobilised.

John McDonnell gave a description of his admiration for the Heathrow Climate Camp and an appeal for people to get involved in direct action that makes you wonder how he can bear to remain in the Labour Party.

Derek Wall can give a fuller account of his contribution for himself. Two points that stuck out for me were his call for an economy based on use values and his illustration of some example of eco-industrial action when building workers in Australia refused to build environmentally destructive homes.

If you want to find out what Tony Kearns had to say listen to the video of his talk at the Bethnal Green meeting on Thursday.

You’ll have noticed from reading this partial account that there was quite a spectrum of the British labour movement participating in the event. There were some significant absentees too, in particular from the transport, manufacturing and constructions sectors. Tony Kearns make the point that t
here are two types of trade unionist at the moment. Those who take climate change seriously and those who don’t yet. All will soon have to start getting involved in it because very soon it will start affecting every one of their members’ jobs, environments and way of life. Yesterday’s conference was the arrival of the organised working class in the struggle against climate change.

Roy Wilkes adds…

294 delegates registered, and in addition there were workshop speakers and stall holders, so there were a little over 300 people in all.

At the October planning meeting we discussed the idea of the conference adopting a Trade Union Charter on climate change. Martin brought a proposal for a charter to the January planning meeting, but the meeting decided that there wouldn’t be enough time to adequately discuss such a detailed proposal. In particular Phil Thornhill, the national organiser of the CCC, was uncomfortable with us adopting a detailed policy which went so far beyond the aims of the CCC. So instead it was agreed that we would put a much simpler enabling motion as a means of committing ourselves to continuing the process of organising within the unions – both to build the campaign itself and to encourage unions to adopt effective policies relevant to the industries in which they organise. The procedure we agreed was that I would draft a motion which would be discussed via the email list (which at that stage already had over 200 members) prior to it being put to the conference itself. We felt that the conference should vote on something just as a way of expressing the view that this conference was not an end in itself but merely the start of a process which needs to continue. If we hadn’t put anything to the vote it might have appeared as simply a one off educational event.

So, I put a proposal out to the list, several people submitted amendments, which I composited to the original motion (with the agreement of those who submitted them.) I then put the final version out to the list a week before the conference. So far so good. Then Workers Power sent me a further amendment on Tuesday, i.e. 4 days before the conference. There was nothing wrong with it (it just called for unions to build the next national climate march, although it added nothing to the original motion, which already called for unions to build all the actions of the CCC;) except it was problematic in practical terms since the delegate information leaflet had already gone for printing with what I thought was a finalised motion. We were worried that if we accepted this amendment at the conference others would want to put further amendments, and we knew that there simply wouldn’t be time to discuss them properly.

But we wanted to be as inclusive and open as possible, so the conference planning group met on Saturday morning and decided on a procedure, which was that we would invite amendments to be submitted, and that we would meet as a conference arrangements committee at 2pm to try to composite amendments to the main motion.

At 2pm we met and decided to accept the Workers Power amendment but that the others either would take too long to properly discuss or else would go beyond the remit of the conference, so we decided to invite the movers to speak in the final plenary but not put their amendments to the vote.

With the benefit of hindsight, my view now is that we should have put it to a vote to remit the amendments for further discussion at a recall conference.

There is however an issue that needs to be discussed both by the CCCTU group and by the CCC as a whole, which is about how we build the broadest possible united front while also advancing meaningful solutions to climate change. Phil Thornhill’s view is that the CCC, or indeed any section of it, should not adopt any policies on specific solutions to climate change, but should merely gather together the broadest possible alliance to demand an effective international treaty. This isn’t really tenable, since people do want solutions and rightly so. But we couldn’t resolve that issue at yesterday’s conference, although we will need to resolve it somehow.

So, where do we go from here? The working group set up by the conference (which is open to anyone who wants to come, so come to it) will meet at 11am on 1st March at ULU to continue to organize; for example we are aiming to hold CCC fringe meetings at as many union conferences as possible. But we also do need to discuss in detail how we develop working class solutions to this crisis. I agree with Bill that we should start planning a recall conference, and one which has fewer platform speakers and much more time for discussion and debate.

If you want to be added to the e-list send me your email address to roywilkes59@talktalk.net

35 responses to “Campaign Against Climate Change Trade Union Conference Report (updated)”

  1. I estimated that there were around 700 people present at the final plenary meeting.
    I also thought that Jonathan Neale and Matt Wrack gave very good speeches at either end of the event.
    Shame that Meacher and McDonnell couldn’t have got their act together before the Labour deputy leadership contest.
    Despite his wobbly record on the war Meacher is better informed on the environment!

    If union reps are realy going to become Green eco-Warriors, unions will need to do some work on policy too.
    Because there is undoubtedly the potential to play the issues of environmental concerns and wages, hours and jobs off against each other.
    That’s why we need policies on energy and low pollution transportation to be agreed across all unions.
    As someone pointed out – alternative production plans have a history of the British unions – the Lucas aerospace plan.

    It won’t be possible to win over workers in transportation, manufacturing and energy production unions without this.
    Even at this conference, there was a certain tension between the bikey lifestylers and tradtional union members.
    I myself can’t listen to people talking about demonstrating against coal fired power stations without my trigger finger twitching.
    Think about what ordinary workers in those industries and areas think.

    Like

  2. Re. Michael Meacher, I heard him speak for the first time at a Campaign against Climate Change and was surprised at what a dynamic speaker he was and the anti-capitalist tenor of his speech (of course rhetoric doesn’t always translate into reality)

    Like

  3. (Quite long – sorry)

    “example of eco-industrial action when building workers in Australia refused to build environmentally destructive videos”.

    Don’t quite know where the “videos” came in. Derek was referring to the NSW Builders Labourers’ Federation and their “Green Bans” movement. Below is a review of a book about this major event in working class history (early 70’s) that Dave Bangs wrote for Socialist Outlook when it was a paper. I’m not sure if it was ever published: it is very long, and no doubt (in the judgement of many posters to this blog) the editors were more interested in writing about the latest split to the exclusion of everything else.

    Coincidentally, I also referred to the Green Bans movement in my workshop. It is a prototype for what the unions could do in relation to planned environmentally-damaging developments. In many ways, the onus would fall on construction unions. However, I think those who design and plan developments of all kinds that do not meet the proper criteria (zero emissions for housing and other buildings; no nuclear power; no road-widening etc; renewable schemes, instead of coal-fired power stations, such as Kingsnorth in the Medway) – including workers in local authority planning departments (UNISON!!!) – could also work towards organising Green Bans. They would be implementing their environmental codes, irrespective of current “legal” ones.

    It would be useful to think of ways workers in other sectors could participate in green bans (car workers?!). However, one of the key things Dave Bangs mentions is that this Australian union was “already strong”, possessing a strict closed shop.

    Book Review “GREEN BANS, RED UNION”
    Dave Bangs. 24.08.00 (1725 words)

    The working class is at its most powerful in its role as producers, as creators of the products & services capitalism sells. Its power to withdraw or modify its labour – by strikes, occupation work-ins and so on – can bring capitalism to a halt.

    At present we are bottoming out of a period of severe defeat for our class in which strike action is at an all-time low, & workers have little confidence to fight for more than catch-up pay rises, or minor hours & conditions ameliorations – at best.

    Most of the burden of confronting capitalism’s onslaught on the environment has been borne by direct actionists organised on the basis of single-issue campaigns or residential communities. It was local residents & militant defenders of nature who blocked the bulldozers at Twyford Down and Manchester Airport, not organised labour. And when push came to shove, construction workers, protected behind a screen of police, did the dirty work of destruction.

    It is easy, therefore, to understand those Green Party – and even anarchist – activists who pick up the old tune of “the death of class” & look to other social elements as agents of green change – parts of the underclass, or the middle class, counter-culturalists, or small capital.

    Easy to understand, maybe, but high time we challenged this dead-end nonsense. Imagine what it would have been like if construction workers themselves had blacked all work on Sizewell, the North Birmingham Relief Road, and the M11 !…and if these construction workers had then demanded that development resources should instead be put into hospitals, affordable housing & sustainable transport initiatives!!

    The Builders Labourers’ Federation
    But this is precisely what happened in New South Wales at the beginning of the 1970’s, when the Builders Labourers’ Federation, one of Australia’s oldest unions, used all its industrial muscle to halt the destruction of virgin bush, green spaces, historic districts and houses, and working class communities. It did this even though such action was against its own immediate economic interest, & in the face of a blizzard of class prejudice & opposition from aggrieved trade union bigwigs.

    Boom Time
    Acting on the basis of a core belief in “the social responsibility of labour” this trade union took up the cudgels for the environment in the middle of a speculative development boom which saw parts of Sydney transformed by skyscrapers, expressways, plazas & luxury housing, where previously low-income working class communities had lived. Millions of dollars of foreign investment flowed into this business-friendly state, with its lax development control.

    Labour’s Opportunity
    But this boom put builders labourers’ work at a premium & enabled an already-strong union to massively muscle-up. The union was fortunate, also, in having a leadership which had gone through a whole process of political differentiation (largely via the Communist Party of Australia), shedding its Stalinist heritage & embracing a politics of thoroughgoing openness, democracy, and accountability.

    Launching a militant onslaught on industry wage differentials, which it won, the leadership adopted an internal regime calculated to maximise rank & file power & union control. Labouring became a strict closed shop. Limited tenure of office was introduced for all union officials, & job-site union autonomy encouraged. Officials’ wages were tied to industry wages, & non-payment of officials during strikes was introduced. Executive meetings were thrown open, as was the union office, & a culture of frequent stop-work meetings & open mass meetings was engendered. All organisational tasks were undertaken by labourers themselves, including all research & union publications.

    This combination of militancy & democracy paid great dividends. Union membership rose by 136%, against 7% for other unions!! Wages & conditions improved steeply. Campaigns to “Civilise the Industry”, attacking health & safety deficiencies, winning accident pay & major amenities improvements, were progressed. The rank & file developed such militant tactics – including consistent industrial sabotage of scab work, site occupations & work-ins, vetoes over dismissals & control over hiring & firing – that even the leadership had to race to adapt to these confident assertions of class authority.

    Black Bans/Green Bans
    It is in this context that the union embraced ever-widening political agendas, trampling over ever-more class, ethnic, sexual & political boundaries. It is fitting that their first Green Ban (a name aptly chosen to transcend the old industrial term of “Black Ban”) was on a piece of bushland in a posh middle class district. “The middle-class matrons” who had organised to stop the development of this ancient & lovely site “discovered this union of manual labourers was more sensitive to the natural beauty of Kelly’s Bush than conservative politicians & newspaper editors & they were radicalised permanently by their experience”.

    These “upper-middle class morning tea matrons” were only the first of many middle & even ruling class conservationists who – eagerly or reluctantly – embraced the offered solidarity of this militant class-struggle union. As one of the “Battlers for Kelly’s Bush” said: “why shouldn’t the construction site worker be able to question the ethics of his helping to knock down an historic old building or bulldoze some bushland?”

    Later, the union was to fight on more convivial territory, opposing the trashing of working class districts by developers & the eviction of tenants. Some of these struggles – like the long and bloody fight to save Victoria Street from the predations of a vicious thug developer – reached epic proportions. Builders labourers, residents, & community squatters faced armed thugs beating up folk and trashing their property – kidnapping one activist and holding him blindfold in a car boot for days. One well-known activist was actually murdered, in a crime that has never been solved. The labourers’ steadfastness won out, though, & brought this Van Hoogstraten-like developer to his knees.

    How many people who see the Sydney Opera House on postcards & stamps know of the union’s successful fight to preserve part of its setting from a massive car park? The union’s Green Ban on the car park under the Botanic Gardens, which would have “interfered with the root system of splendid & ancient Moreton Bay Fig Trees & caused the loss of at least 3” threatened the official opening of the Opera House by the Queen! Their strong nerve in holding to their ban – an expression of the “union’s opposition in principle to any proposals for car parks that encroached on water, gardens or parkland” – resulted, in the end, in a rational solution being found to the problem.

    Altruism
    From 1971 to 1975 the union’s Green Bans halted projects worth $5000 million, taking a major dent out of capital’s madcap mayhem in the state. High rise developments were banned, expressways were blocked, forest land & island nature reserves were defended, parks were saved from huge sports & leisure complexes, & individual historic buildings were saved.

    Yet this altruism cost the builders labourers in their purses – a price they were prepared to pay. By 1975 3 out of 4 strike days in Australia were in New South Wales & nearly half of those were in the building industry! “In the short run the workers were denying themselves work. In the long run, the workers could see that (Green Bans were) in the interests of the entire community”

    And these bans were no top-down imposition. Jack Mundey, the union’s charismatic leader, “estimated that about half the union’s members were actively interested in conservation & preservation”.

    Widening Agenda
    But these bans were only the best-known part of the 11,000 strong union’s ever-widening agenda. They vigorously campaigned on behalf of women entrants to the industry, breaking a century-old opposition to women working in the building industry. Many of these women entrants later became leading union activists.

    The union banned work at Macquarie University in support of a student expelled for his homosexuality. They later banned work again in support of students opposing the segregation of staff/student bar facilities.

    They supported aboriginal land rights, aboriginal squatter communities & tenants, & aboriginal union activists. So vigorous was their solidarity that 38 aboriginal organisations supported the union in its later struggle against deregistration.

    In 1971 union leaders were arrested for attempting to hacksaw down the aluminium goal posts during the Springbok Rugby Union tour from apartheid South Africa.

    The union called for defiance of call-up to Vietnam & helped students build barricades to defend a draft sanctuary.

    And – in a move that serves to frame even better our own jailer Jack Straw’s inhumanity – the union banned all work on a $1 million maximum security prison block, where prisoners would have been unable to see daylight, confined for 18 hours per day, with toilet bowls doubling for washing bowls. Their ban was betrayed by other unions, but their humanity was later vindicated, for the prison was closed down after a few years.

    Defeat
    It was not the employers who finally defeated the union, in 1974-5, but the union’s own Federal leadership, which conspired with the employers to impose Federal Union control over the State Union, expel the leading militants (& thus bar them also from finding builders labourers’ work), end the bans & end the union’s encroachment on employer prerogatives. These union-breakers were themselves “Maoists” or “Communists”, speaking a rhetoric of workers’ power, but repeating the wearisome tradition of bureaucratic betrayal & tyranny.

    Lessons
    But this story should not end with some small lesson about the dirty dealings of union bureaucracies. This story is much bigger than that. What the NSW Builders Labourers’ Federation proved was that the class power of the producers is our best weapon against the onslaught of capital on our environment, our quality of life, & on nature.

    And they proved that this power could only be expressed through the deepest, most thoroughgoing democracy in our class organisations. Once realised, this democratic power acted as a dissolvent of all gender, ethnic, sectoral & class barriers. No bans were ever placed without the support of the workers or of the communities affected.

    The struggle to save our environment is linked tight to the struggle for democracy & control, & the struggle against capitalism. If we break these links, we break the possibilities of our own success.

    All socialists and greens should read this book. It’ll stir you from head to toe.

    “Green Bans, Red Union, Environmental activism and the New South Wales Builders Labourers’ Federation”. UNSW Press. (1998). Meredith & Verity Burgmann.
    ISBN 0 86840 760 7.

    Like

  4. Fantastic turnout. Well done to all those who organised it and publicised it.

    Like

  5. Evil Former Partner went to this one and left me in charge of the kids.

    When she came to pick them up, she mentioned there was some controversy over amendments submitted in time, but not allowed by organisers.

    While unclear over the reasons, she suspected political stitch-up. Can any of those present elucidate? Genuinely interested, no sectarian axe to grind …

    Like

  6. Hi folks,

    yes a good day…I blogged about Jack Mundey at SU http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1695#comment-42080

    well I copied and pasted,

    incidentally first learnt about him in Alan RobertsThe Self-Managed Environment which is a good Australia ecosocialist book published in 1979…I think the green bans are a good example of red green to persuade greens and socialists of the message…

    the conference was good to participate in and John McDonnell was very very good politically …lots of talk about building a movement at the grassroots he is doing it in his constituency in Hayes against Heathrow expansion…he was very inspirational about the climate camp…it is so rare to find a parliamentarian who isn’t dreadful and I am not just being party political sectarian….having said that I missed Micheal Meacher but have lots of positive feedback from other Green Party members.

    the practical grassroots stuff at the shop floor and in communities is what we need to be doing.

    Like

  7. There were 180 people (I counted!) in the final plenary and perhaps thirty people buzzing around outside, so I think 700 in the opening plenary seems unlikely (though to be fair I wasn’t there). My guess is 300-350 for the conference; in any case, impressive.

    A positive event (there’ll be a report on the AWL site soon), but one big problem.

    I thought it was telling that amendments to the final motion proposed by young activists from the new Workers’ Climate Action network (one of the two, Max Munday, a comrade of mine in AWL) were not allowed to be voted on. These amendments sharpened up a class struggle focus and committed the campaign to some practical action on helping workers develop action for sustainability. George Binette’s on public ownership of public transport was also not taken, despite being passed unanimously, apparently, by the session on transport.

    My guess is that people don’t want the kind of radical politics which were discussed in the event – green bans, cutting the working week, public ownership, workers’ conversion plans – to spill over into the main CCC, as liberals, right-wing Greens, NGOs etc will object. In any case, not allowing the amendments to be discussed, SWP-style, was pretty poor.

    For a report on Thursday night’s meeting in Bethnal Green, see here:
    http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2008/02/07/report-campaign-against-climate-change-meeting-tower-hamlets-7-february

    Like

  8. I may have overestimated, but it was more than 180
    About 20 per row and all seats taken. Go figure.
    Perhaps the conference organisers could release the number of registrations to settle the issue.

    As to the ammendments I spoke to some of the WACites, who seem to be direct action climate camp yoof types. I thought they were a bit ultra-left meself.
    Anyway serious policy discussions can only be had at representative delegate meetings of unions.
    Anything coming out of this meeting can only be treated as kicking off that process. Given the presence of leadership level TUC and LP people that’s an entirely reasonable prospect I would have thought.

    Like

  9. The downstairs has a capacity of 250 and there is room for about 80 upstairs. The attendance was around the 300 mark but could not have been anywhere near 700.

    One can make a case that there were too many plenary speakers but the event was unusual in that some of them rang up and asked to be on the platform and it would have been counter productive not to get senior union figures involved.

    As for the amendments – it wasn’t really built as that sort of conference. The level of discussion in the workshop I chaired was pretty low and suggested that we all need to go away and do more thinking. The conference should have been a spur for that.

    To have an informed democratic debate motions need to be circulated in advance with time for discussion. That is not how yesterday was structured. It was as much an attempt to see what the level of interest was. In any case an open invitation was extended to the planning meeting in ULU on March 1st. Yesterday was the start of a process rather than an end in itself

    Like

  10. Sacha Ismael:
    Why the hell set up a “Workers’ Climate Action Network” when there is a well-established Campaign Against Climate Change willing to do grass-roots activity in the trade unions and elsewhere?

    You “guess” that there is some kind of alliance with right-wing greens that will prevent the CACC taking up workers’ plans etc. So you avoid a political debate on this issue (which is probably a non-issue) in CACC and set up a separate organisation, with a more radical-sounding name and far less potential for establishing roots in the working class. How stupidly sectarian is that?

    The people speaking from the platform gave a reason for not voting on the amendments: this conference couldn’t change the policy of the whole campaign. The motion proposed from the organisers was therefore basically organisational; to get some TU activity going and set up functioning communications. That seems fair enough to me. It is no use passing wonderful policy if there is no one around to get it organised.

    People were allowed to speak in the plenary to say what their (out of order) amendments said. The WCAN amendment I that heard (I had to leave after the first one), was basically used as a reason for addressing the whole plenary – which I don’t object to – and actually just said we need grass-roots action (no particular action specified): it wasn’t exactly earth-shattering.

    Like

  11. Broadly concur with Liam’s positive assessment of the event as a whole. My best guesstimate is that the event attracted something over 300 during the course of the day – certainly 700 is a dramatic overestimate. While the event was not exclusively white collar, Liam has pointed to absences from key industrial sectors and I think that we should be honest as well about how white and middle aged the audience was. I also thought that it was disproportionately male. In part, this reflects the reality of contemporary trade unionism, but even so the virtual absence of union members from African-Caribbean and Black African backgrounds, and all too few from South Asian backgrounds was a real weakness that need to be recognised and addressed. The age profile was again disappointing and I suppose this again illustrates a more general failure to ‘connect’ with younger workers.

    Otherwise, I did think that the morning plenary was too long and featured too many speakers, but then the same could be said of all too many conferences over the years. McDonnell, Derek Wall and Matt Wrack were all very good. Much as I admired Jonathan Neale’s evangelical delivery I found his remarks rather lacking in substance/ Whatever was worthy in the content of Meacher’s speech eluded me – his initial support in Parliament for the Iraq war, not to mention his dubious role in the Labour leadership contest that never was (never mind his multiple dwellings!) have dented his credibility beyond repair.

    Finally, as a mover of one of the amendments that was not voted on for incorporation into the final resolution, I thought it slightly unfortunate that the issue of rail renationalisation was deemed a policy issue to controversial for consideration, but on this occasion I don’t think that the SWP (or anyone else for that matter) was behind any top table conspiracy to stifle debate and keep ‘politics’ off the agenda.

    Like

  12. OK! I accept the estimate I made was over-optimistic.

    Like

  13. All has now become clear.
    The estimates of around 300 are correct and I thought not bad overall.
    On the issue of the amendments I think it would have been better not to take any at all, as there wasn’t time for detailed discussion. TBH I’m not even sure why there was a resolution as it didn’t say very much either.
    The disputed amendments were pretty uncontroversial (notwithstanding I agreed with them -(especially George’s! ;-}), the two from the AWL front just said orient to the workers from what I remember – which kinda goes without say at a trade union conference on climate change.
    Better I think to have a second conference where policy can be agreed.

    Like

  14. Michael Meacher – anti-capitalist landlord?

    He’s was in Edge of Darkness, you know. That’s something in his favour…

    Like

  15. Thanks Liam for this very good report on the conference.

    294 delegates registered, and in addition there were workshop speakers and stall holders, so there were a little over 300 people in all.

    At the October planning meeting we discussed the idea of the conference adopting a Trade Union Charter on climate change. Martin brought a proposal for a charter to the January planning meeting, but the meeting decided that there wouldn’t be enough time to adequately discuss such a detailed proposal. In particular Phil Thornhill, the national organiser of the CCC, was uncomfortable with us adopting a detailed policy which went so far beyond the aims of the CCC. So instead it was agreed that we would put a much simpler enabling motion as a means of committing ourselves to continuing the process of organising within the unions – both to build the campaign itself and to encourage unions to adopt effective policies relevant to the industries in which they organise. The procedure we agreed was that I would draft a motion which would be discussed via the email list (which at that stage already had over 200 members) prior to it being put to the conference itself. We felt that the conference should vote on something just as a way of expressing the view that this conference was not an end in itself but merely the start of a process which needs to continue. If we hadn’t put anything to the vote it might have appeared as simply a one off educational event.

    So, I put a proposal out to the list, several people submitted amendments, which I composited to the original motion (with the agreement of those who submitted them.) I then put the final version out to the list a week before the conference. So far so good. Then Workers Power sent me a further amendment on Tuesday, i.e. 4 days before the conference. There was nothing wrong with it (it just called for unions to build the next national climate march, although it added nothing to the original motion, which already called for unions to build all the actions of the CCC;) except it was problematic in practical terms since the delegate information leaflet had already gone for printing with what I thought was a finalised motion. We were worried that if we accepted this amendment at the conference others would want to put further amendments, and we knew that there simply wouldn’t be time to discuss them properly.

    But we wanted to be as inclusive and open as possible, so the conference planning group met on Saturday morning and decided on a procedure, which was that we would invite amendments to be submitted, and that we would meet as a conference arrangements committee at 2pm to try to composite amendments to the main motion.

    At 2pm we met and decided to accept the Workers Power amendment but that the others either would take too long to properly discuss or else would go beyond the remit of the conference, so we decided to invite the movers to speak in the final plenary but not put their amendments to the vote.

    With the benefit of hindsight, my view now is that we should have put it to a vote to remit the amendments for further discussion at a recall conference.

    There is however an issue that needs to be discussed both by the CCCTU group and by the CCC as a whole, which is about how we build the broadest possible united front while also advancing meaningful solutions to climate change. Phil Thornhill’s view is that the CCC, or indeed any section of it, should not adopt any policies on specific solutions to climate change, but should merely gather together the broadest possible alliance to demand an effective international treaty. This isn’t really tenable, since people do want solutions and rightly so. But we couldn’t resolve that issue at yesterday’s conference, although we will need to resolve it somehow.

    So, where do we go from here? The working group set up by the conference (which is open to anyone who wants to come, so come to it) will meet at 11am on 1st March at ULU to continue to organize; for example we are aiming to hold CCC fringe meetings at as many union conferences as possible. But we also do need to discuss in detail how we develop working class solutions to this crisis. I agree with Bill that we should start planning a recall conference, and one which has fewer platform speakers and much more time for discussion and debate.

    If you want to be added to the e-list send me your email address to roywilkes59@talktalk.net

    Like

  16. […] if there is another climate camp next year….talked to John McDonnell yesterday at the trade union climate conference and he is 100% supporting the non violent direct […]

    Like

  17. Sacha’s count feels right to me. I had empty seats to my right and left. He probably could not see into the balcony though.

    But 300 or so is an amazing number!

    Like

  18. Interesting comments and overall a successful conference. Congratulations to the organisers.

    Roy’s explanation and with hindsight suggested compromise on the amendments seems reasonable. The important thing is to move forward and perhaps have resolutions at a future delegate based conference and begin organising now urgently in the communities and workplaces for mobilisations to force action against catastrophic climate change.

    The day also improved as it went on with the final plenary being noticeably better than the first- though Wrack’s open commitment to socialism and the overthrow of capitalism is certainly wlecome from a union general secretary. One slight caveat. Liam says: “and the majority of them were neither part of the far left nor any of the established environmental groups.”

    My feeling was that a definite majority of delegates were from the organised left and probably a slightly smaller number of people not associated with left groups as well as some Greens. However, the numbers of 300 plus were a good start and if this is just the beginning of co-ordinated work and action on this issue then we may be do just about have a chance to do something significant, new and inspiring to save the world and bring in a desperately needed new generation of activists and fresh blood to both the trades union movement and the left.

    More here http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=1918
    Once again well done to Roy, Martin and the rest of the organisers. Let’s take this campaign forward in our workplaces, trades unions and communities.

    Jason

    Like

  19. Thanks for the report, Liam. I’ve been waiting all weekend for a report to surface somewhere in leftyblogland. Sounds like a good and worthwhile event.

    Btw, why so surprised about Matt Wrack making a militant speech? It wasn’t that long ago he was in the SP and Socialist Alliance!

    Like

  20. Interesting but rather disappointing conference.Nevertheless a welcome start.

    Well done to all the organisers who put so much work and time in to make it happen.

    I actually thought there were unsually quite a lot of much younger activists than at most Leftish conference, which was a positive sign. 300 sounds about right although the numbers clearly increased for the end plenary as a number of extra SWP ers(who had not been at the whole conference) crept in presumably to secure the motion going through?

    Personally, I didnt gain much from any of the platform speakers at either plenary other than Nick Wrack’s talk of Socialist solutions and expounding on how poorly prepared this country is in dealing with the already dramatic consequences of global climate change……..increased flooding, heath and morrlandfires.

    The workshops which I attended were both poorly chaired and very little clear focussed came out of any of them relevant to the subject matter of the workshops.

    I really think it is time that workshops were structured in a much more democratic, open and participative way using PA and popular education techniques, geniuinely involving people in discussion and debate, which is never given much time. Insead of so many workshops . The level of discussion was lacking in rogorous analysis, very simplistic such as posing ‘poor ‘and ‘rich’, ‘developing’ and ‘developed’. The level of understanding of global politics, capitalism and global climate change was very poor.
    Patehtically, the SWP posing as RESPECT attempted to green up their act in ridiclous and painful fashion trying to make out that China and

    Like

  21. Interesting but rather disappointing conference.Nevertheless a welcome start.

    Well done to all the organisers who put so much work and time in to make it happen.

    I actually thought there were unsually quite a lot of much younger activists than at most Leftish conference, which was a positive sign. 300 sounds about right although the numbers clearly increased for the end plenary as a number of extra SWP ers(who had not been at the whole conference) crept in presumably to secure the motion going through?

    Personally, I didnt gain much from any of the platform speakers at either plenary other than Nick Wrack’s talk of Socialist solutions and expounding on how poorly prepared this country is in dealing with the already dramatic consequences of global climate change……..increased flooding, heath and morrlandfires.

    The workshops which I attended were both poorly chaired and very little clear focussed came out of any of them relevant to the subject matter of the workshops.

    I really think it is time that workshops were structured in a much more democratic, open and participative way using PA and popular education techniques, geniuinely involving people in discussion and debate, which is never given much time. Insead of so many workshops . The level of discussion was lacking in rigorous analysis, very simplistic such as posing illdefined terms such as ‘poor ‘ against ‘rich’, ‘developing’ against ‘developed’ and the ‘poor’ ‘third world’.

    The level of understanding of global politics and imperialism (had no mention from what I heard), capitalism and global climate change was very poor.
    Pathetically, the SWP posing as RESPECT attempted to green up their act in usual hamfisted, crass, ridiclous and painful fashion trying to make out that China and India were not part of the problem and the US was. Well none would deny the US imperialism is a major part of the problem but to try to make out China and India are ‘poor’ countries and arent part of the problem is prettty fucking stupid. I dont think they know what they are talking about as was alll too clear when all they have done is simply tack talk of global climate change onto their usual rant.

    The CCC will die a death if the SWP are allowed to take control of it. The dead hand was present . To what extent it has got it’s filthy hands on the organisation I dont know. Chris Nineham skulking around in the back ground, pulling strings and having quiet words here and there is never and can never be a good sign for any campaign worth it’s salt. Be warned!

    Jonathan Neale tub thumping away saying we need to create a movement of 100’s of millions left me cold just as John Rees calling for 100,00 activists to attend the Cairo conference atlast years World against War conference. What are these people on?

    Given that the Global climate change march last year was actually a few thousand strong and was actually smaller than the previous years…….

    The final motion was a real mess at the end and left a bitter taste in the mouth as it gave the impresssion of a stitch up of sorts. Why is the Left so terrified of democracy? Debate and discussion

    The motion said nothing about providing political EDUCATION and critical analysis and that is what, in my opinion, is needed most at this moment in time,as there is so much ignorance and denial, misinformation and disinformation out here about the causes of Global climate change and the global ecosystem and global capitalism, the causes and sustainable viable Socialist economic and ecological solutions.

    Derek Wall’s call for us all to support what was going on in LATIN aMERICA and unite and go on till victory was a bit crass.I dont think there are or will be any victors when it comes to Global climate change.

    Just by supporting postive and progressive social economic and political change in Venezuela and Bolivia etc does not mean that Chavez (oil) or Morales (gas) are clearly taking a ECO SOCIALIST trajectory in replacing and overthrowing capitalism and through the implementation of many their present policies, they also are contributing to CO2 emissions and global cimate change.

    It’s all abit more complicated and contradictory than that and should be explained as such.

    We have limited time left to try to effect change to avoid us reaching the tipping point after which time things become irreversible

    Like

  22. Obviously there were some things disappointing about the conference but it’s a start and you have to start somewhere!

    Overall it was an impressive turn out but the important point is we have to build on it and make sure the conference is the beginning of a mass movement to actually take us somewhere.

    The workshops were variable but the one on transport I thought particularly good.with Cat Hobbs from Campaign For Better Transport giving an interesting speech on how a planned integrated transport system geared to meet people’s not profit’s could make transport much greener. Also she gave some examples of how community mobilisations like the Bristol rail passengers’ fare strike can play a role in getting the services we need.

    Unjum Mirza, RMT officer and SWP member also gave a reasonable account of how rail services could be massively improved- electrification of the line, the introduction of high speed services and other features.
    The discussion was a fruitful exploration of how we could plan for better services in all sorts of areas- local hospitals, local low-cost housing, etc, integrated low-cost or free public transport, cycle lanes, time off and subsidies for low carbon travelling to and from work. All of this instead of the market that by having uneven house prices, uneven services such as schools and adding millions of pounds worth of food miles gobbles up the environment and provides a worse lifestyle for us all.

    There was also a debate about congestion charges and higher or even prohibitive taxation on aviation and car use. Some, like Cat Hobbs, strongly advocated these. Others, including myself, disagreed. In the absence at least of other measures a congestion charge is simple a regressive tax on working class commuters many of whom have to travel by car to work. If say a £5 daily charge was introduced in Manchester for example this would amount to an effective 15% pay cut for those on minimum wage or about 5-7% on the average working class wage. A much better solution would be to have free public transport under local democratic control and other measures such as free bikes for workers, safe cycle lanes and perhaps electric car share schemes. If working class management planning committees needed also to adopt a congestion charge to limit road use then this could of course be considered as other options would be available: I suspect however that if high quality other transport options were available then this wouldn’t be needed. After all, spending an hour and a half a day in a metal box in crawling traffic is hardly anyone’s idea of fun whereas a combination of cycling and letting the train take the strain is so much more relaxing!

    Although only a few speakers made it explicit, the cross-cutting theme of all the discussion items was really about how democratic socialist planning. It therefore shows the importance of transitional demands in our politics- we should mobilise in workplaces and communities for cheap or free public services under the democratic control of the working class service users ourselves.

    I think in the future Roy has already made it clear that it would be good to have a recall conference with motions precirculated. I think it would also be good to have more focus on active planning of actual rank and file action and community campaigns to force action on this vital issue.

    Over the coming weeks, months and years our task is clear- organise in workplaces to connect bread and butter issues, such as the right to organise, such as better and more comfortable working conditions, basic health and safety, subsidies to encourage greener working and travelling with the desire of many workers, particularly the young, to change and save the world. By connecting mundane and grand issues by a series of transitional demands that link the fight for immediate gains with the fight for workers’ control and socialism, we can begin to win a new generation to the ideas of workers’ action and socialism in practice.

    This successful conference should just be the beginning.

    Jason

    Like

  23. “X” Your report back seems to be engaging in gratuitous SWP bashing. (I’m not a member)
    I can’t say I noticed any particular evidence of them manipulating the event.
    Given there were leading figures from the TUC, Greens and Labour Party there, they must be pretty inept to allow such “manipulation”
    A more pertinent criticism might be that the audience didn’t contain more delegated union reps who will be in a position to pass motions at branches and conferences in the future and that the work on developing policies still needs to be done.

    You have a point of the questions of India and China though. The climate system doesn’t know about per capita C02 emissions, only absolute levels in the atmosphere.
    If the science is right, these have to stay below 450 ppm to avoid serious global warming.
    So development in these countries cannot take the same route it did in the West during the industrial revolution and other sources of energy and transport methods are required. China currently produces over 1,000 million tonnes of coal a year and that’s currently a serious ecological problem for both China and the World.

    Like

  24. “X” Your report back seems to be engaging in gratuitous SWP bashing. (I’m not a member)
    I can’t say I noticed any particular evidence of them manipulating the event.
    Given there were leading figures from the TUC, Greens and Labour Party there, they must be pretty inept to allow such “manipulation”.

    With respect Prianikoff you seemed to be away with the fairies according to your report counting over 700 in attendance but rest assured the SWP/Respect were well in there spouting bollocks. iI am merely giving a pointer to the fact that Jonathan Neale is a member of SWP and already has a well established position within CCC.Personally I dont trust the bastards an inch.

    The point is the SWP are always manipulating, it’s there way of life but they should be taken to task over what Suzanne Jeffreys(article on swp website ) is saying on their behalf with her Respect / SWP hat on because it’s absolute bollocks!

    Like

  25. The slight mishandling of the amendments issue has already in my opinion been adequately explained by Roy: far more important is to make sure in the future there is adequate time for discussion, debate and action flowing from it.

    Suzanne Jeffrey’s article is weak I think. China is clearly a leading emitter- yes, per capita emission is much lower than the US but this cannot elide a major problem. There is of course a legitimate point that the global poor and working class should not have to pay a disproportionate price for global warming though of course that is exactly what is happening of nothing dramatic is done about solving the problems.

    To solve this will mean serious mobilisation of masses of people for an emergency plan both to try and prevent further climate catastrophe and to minimise the effect of its fallout.

    There is much to be said for X Factor’s advocacy of discussion, debate, mutual education to try to cut through the disinformation and denial about this issue. But it is just as important to try to overcome this sense of powerlessness many feel in the face of such a threat. The key here I think is collective action, drawing in the workplace or community into making a fuss and getting tangible results. This should begin to overcome the feelings of individual helplessness that often are behind denial and spread the ideas and practices of collective power to do something about our communities, workplaces and world.

    Jason

    Like

  26. My gripe is that the present way conferences are structured at the moment is boring, uninspiring and disempowering, often leaving the majority of those that attend feeling as Jason says somewhat powerless, uninvolved and disempowered because the main focus is all too often on the panel of speakers on the platform at the beginning and end of the conferenc with hurried insubstantial , very tokenistic ‘workshops’ in between.

    Obviously it would initially require greater resources and planning but a more creative process is necessary, to break down this divide between platform and floor, ‘active’ speaker and ‘passive’ listener and involve everyone in a through ongoing process of democratic discussion and debate.

    In terms of the use of POPULAR EDUCATION and the use of participatory arts and evaluation, if presented in a open and democratic way, everyone has something to offer, to what extent what they may say or think is bias or distorted based on disinformation, ignorance or whatever, is something that needs to be and can be worked through in a clearly understood and focussed way leading to a powerful collective understanding and direction.

    We need to open up the spaces we occupy at conferences and turn them into genuinely stimulating places of political education and learning.

    Quality over quantity

    Like

  27. “Pathetically, the SWP posing as RESPECT attempted to green up their act in usual hamfisted, crass, ridiclous and painful fashion trying to make out that China and India were not part of the problem and the US was. Well none would deny the US imperialism is a major part of the problem but to try to make out China and India are ‘poor’ countries and arent part of the problem is prettty fucking stupid”

    I think the point is not to deny that China and India or any other country is part of the problem but rather to challenge a idea that is currently being pushed by politicians and media in Britain and the US that these countries are the biggest polluters on the planet. X factor should think about why the media and the establishment in our country want to whip up a hysteria about China and India, and then he might understand why it is important to challenge this miconception.

    For example, when I’ve talked to people whom I work with they say things like, “what’s the point of us doing anything, if China’s building new power stations every week” and are clearly under the impression that China is the main source of the problem and pushing the onus of action onto other countries rather than the industrialised, rich west.

    As Suzanne J highlights actually when it comes to emissions per person, China and India, are way below the US and UK and most European countries.

    Like

  28. ‘X factor should think about why the media and the establishment in our country want to whip up a hysteria about China and India, and then he might understand why it is important to challenge this miconception’

    Well thanks Adamski for the advice about the media.I’m actual;ly well aware of what the media is and isn’t saying thanks.

    Sorry but the fact is that if the primarily US, India and China do not radically reduce their carbon emissions, on top of everyy other country which is emitting carbon emissions then there will be no possibility of averting the tipping point after which the whole global climate change will be irreversible.

    I agree that it is important to challenge the misconception and all misconceptions about the issue which are spewed out on a daily basis by our media but it is also important then not to create further false misconceptions as if India and China are not part of the problem.They are all part of the ever expansive Global capitalist system of mass production and consumption based on the exploitation of vast supplies of finite hugely polluting fossil fuels which are burnt and are primarily responsible for Global climate change.

    The ruling classes of the US, China and India are loathe to do anything about their present suicidal trajectories because they are doing very well nicely thank you out of the present situation and among themsleves. Neither is sustainable!

    Let’s not muddy the waters here just because the US is the biggest baddy and uses China and India to try to deflect attention to it’s own monumental eco crimes, China and India are also co conspitators in such appalling crimes. To say otherwise is a bit like the my enemies enemy are my friends twisted sort of logic.False paradigms. Simliarly, as I have said before, however supportive we are of progressive developments in Venezuela and Bolivia, both countires are still nevertheless making considerable contributions to the production and emission of carbon and the acceleration of global climate change.

    It’s about being honest and clearly dealing with the full complexity(contradictions and all) of the issue rather than creating further misconceptions and confusion.

    In the same way we are all to some extent contributing, albeit to different degrees, to the present parlous state of the planet and have some responsbility for addressing it as individuals as well as on a collective local and global basis. That doesnt mean to say we are responsible for the capitalist system which is primarily responsible nor should we be blamed for it but at the end of the day (whenever that will be) we have got to do something about it and change our lives and collectively bring about the right sort of change simply to stablise the eco system in order to avert the tipping point.

    Like

  29. X factor makes a good point about the structure of these events and their pedagogical value. You retain much more by discussing an idea than you do by listening to someone. So at what we call “workshops” most of the work is done by the person who gives the introduction and the participants contribute relatively little.

    An approach I saw used by a German comrade involves breaking the group up, after an initial input and discussing together to come up with ideas, proposals and solutions. If done well it can force people to think creatively rather than deliver their ready made speech.

    It’s not wrong to say that there was a certain tension between political methodologies in some of the preparatory work but mercifully that did not emerge on the day.

    Like

  30. “With respect Prianikoff you seemed to be away with the fairies according to your report counting over 700 in attendance but rest assured the SWP/Respect were well in there spouting bollocks”

    I was in a hurry at the time and should have already left before the Plenary ended.
    I’ve accepted the real figure was around 300 already. I’m always prepared to accept I’m wrong where there’s objective evidence!

    As to the spouting of bollocks:-

    Well, there was quite a lot of that going but not necessarily from the SWP! The worst thing you could say is that when anyone on the left starts saying the “revolution must happen in my lifetime”, they could be projecting their own intimations of mortality on history. So just keep a level head and be careful about what they come up with next

    I’d suggest you try to be a bit more constructive rather than consigning people to the outer darkness just because of the split in Respect – an organisation I was never prepared to join anyway.

    The fact is, that if ever there was a reason for a united front holding together, the survival of human civilisation is kind of …IT.

    There were representatives of the leadership of Left wing of the LP, TUC, Green Party, individual Unions and the Marxist Left there. That’s a start. So I would suggest sectarians need to show a bit of restraint and do some serious work in building it before announcing that they have discovered the magic bullet programme.

    Like

  31. I think X factor is right on China and India etc. and mistaken about Venezuela and Bolivia.

    On the former: their economic development path is not benefiting the workers and peasants of their countries and is unsustainable. There are forces in their countries fighting this unsustainable path, so it is perfectly legitimate to support those people opposing their ruling classes on climate change just as we should fight ours. I don’t support the non-class, moralistic arguments behind “contraction and convergence”.

    Workers in this country who criticise China etc. might have a point: it depends on what else they say. You can’t use it as as excuse for not fighting the climate change policies of your own government. But many people can see that it is impossible for these countries to “develop” through the fossil fuel economy of the 20th century. The quicker they break from fossil fuels, the easier it will be.

    On Venezuela and Bolivia: insofar as the revolutionary processes are sustained by selling fossil fuels, I consider the resulting climate change an unavoidable consequence of the kinds of compromises that have to be made in these circumstances. Defeat of the revolutions would be a huge setback for the fight against climate change. Conversely, a defeat for imperialism – the main driver of climate change – would be a huge victory in the struggle to stop global warming.

    Venezuela is trying to use its oil power in other ways too:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7238214.stm

    Like

  32. “On Venezuela and Bolivia: insofar as the revolutionary processes are sustained by selling fossil fuels, I consider the resulting climate change an unavoidable consequence of the kinds of compromises that have to be made in these circumstances. Defeat of the revolutions would be a huge setback for the fight against climate change. Conversely, a defeat for imperialism – the main driver of climate change – would be a huge victory in the struggle to stop global warming.” (Philw)

    Well, we can all make excuses for continuation of the production of carbon emissions where it suites our purposes. The point surely is to give critical support and encouragement to the progressive developments in Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Cuba and Venezuela but the fact nevetheless is that if those developments are dependent on the continuation of the burning of fossil fuels and the production of carbon emissions then they too are part of the problem.

    A sustainable and viable and hopefully Socialist global economy has to be struggled for and developed eg Venezuela(in my mind it should be) could if it chose to be at the forefront of developing and producing reuseable energy and renewable technologies.Global climate change and chaos doesnt necessarily look anymore kindly on progressive countries such as Venezuela and Bolivia just because they are rightly chalenging US imperialism. At the end of the day you cant have your cake and eat it whover you are. Changes have to be made and radical changes at that!

    Thanks Liam, for your contribution to developing alternative methodologies for conferences where people are actually actively participating and involved far more in the process of developing awareness and ideas.I think it would be very constructive and hopefully productive to find a way of developing such ideas further through discussion.

    Also, I think your contribution to the debate about Venezuela and global climate change, which you made at the last Hands off Venezuela conference is particularly helpful and relevant and deserves to be further discussed and developed.

    Like

  33. X factor I made myself unpopular at last night’s SR meeting when I started by making the audience talk in small groups for a few minutes to try to answer the question of what we can learn from each other.

    Suprisingly they all seemed to rather enjoy the experience. We need to move away from the format of the 20 minute introduction followed by the ready made, interchangeable contributions.

    Like

  34. Absolutely agree with you and X factor on this. Perhaps we can feed it into the planning for the recall conference?

    Like

  35. Sounds positive

    Like

Leave a comment

Trending