Yesterday was the second HOV conference and the second that I’ve attended. It really is a breath of fresh air when contrasted to the highly stage-managed events that are all the rage on the British left. There are no speaker slips to weed out dissenting voices and political arguments are replied to in a political manner rather than by distorting them or making sneering remarks about the motives of the proposers.

There were about two hundred delegates, roughly the same size as last year but I thought a rather younger age profile. There has just been a tour of some universities and this seems to have gone well.

Diana Raby from Liverpool University was an interesting speaker. She observed that this is the first experience in the post-Stalinist period which shows that the left can come to power and that the Chávez regime has been progressively taking control over sectors of the state apparatus from the bourgeoisie, in particular the army, the judiciary and to some extent the police. This in contrast to other Latin American countries where guerrilla movements have either been defeated or, like Colombia, have contributed to decades of misery. She was very clear on the distinction between office and power. The other interesting comparison she made was with Chile, pointing out that Chávez’s popular support is between 50-80% of the popular vote and that he has much deeper support in the armed forces than Allende had.

Alan Woods began by defending the thesis that what is happening in Venezuela is really a revolution citing Lenin’s quote about whoever wants to see an absolutely pure socialist revolution never will and reminding us of Trotsky’s description of revolution as working people and the poor trying to take their destiny into their own hands and change their conditions of life. He added the essential qualification that the revolution has not yet been completed and its fate is still in the balance. The powers of the old state apparatus has still to be decisively broken and that sooner or later a showdown with the old ruling class is inevitable and must be prepared for. I agree with this.

SR on the losing side, again

Supporters of Socialist Resistance continued our gallant tradition of being on the losing side in the major political debate, though here at least it was a real debate. Supporters of Socialist Appeal consistently make the point that the best way to defend the Venezuelan revolution is to fight for socialism in Britain. This is true and that’s what socialist organisations are supposed to be for. However supporting the theory of permanent revolution should not be a requirement for membership of a solidarity organisation and the line was becoming very blurred between the two things. This was expressed in the discussion around the motion that HOV support John Mc Donnell’s campaign. SR supports it. I’d love to see him win. It would mean that we are in a pre-revolutionary situation. The trouble is that it’s not the function of solidarity organisations to take sides in internal debates in political parties. Most Brownites will be hostile to the Venezuelan revolution and virtually every Mc Donnell supporter will defend it. That’s not the point. The only requirement for being in a solidarity organisation is a desire to solidarise with the revolution or an objection to imperialist interference. We lost the vote by a large margin with some surprising people not agreeing with us but I still got elected onto the HOV steering committee.

I lost the race to publish the first account of the conference to Louise at Stroppyblog by allowing my social life to get in the way.

26 responses to “Hands Off Venezuela Conference”

  1. Well Liam, it says so much about my own empty souless depressing life sans social life….Btw: Well done for getting elected onto the steering committee.

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  2. As you are well aware from my drunken ramblings last evening comrade, I very much disagree that SR supporters took such a line at the conference. There is every reason to support McDonnell’s campaign – a campaign which has wholeheartedly backed HOV and the Venezuelan Revolution and a very weak excuse for arguing against it based on some kind of fear of offending Brownites – nearly all of whom support the rival VIC set up by the Mayor and his friends.Since when do we shy away from reality (which clearly points to support for McDonnell from those who support Venezuela in Britain – precisely because he has a consistent record in favour of the revolution) and start opposing left solidarity because of some organisational issue. Your argument about solidarity campaigns not supporting political campaigns doesn’t hold water. This, I’m afraid, was a pure sectarian reaction. We should not be opposing motions which increase left solidarity.

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  3. hi liam,well done in getting elected, well deserved for hard work in solidarity with Latin America in Tower Hamletsironically the resolution on supporting John McDonnell’s campaign was actually proposed by someone in the HOV steering committee who is not a Socialist Appeal member (plenty of those in the cte)what made me vote for the resolution was the speech by a young member from Cambridge who argued very clearly how supporting John’s campaign DOES actually help the Venezuelan revolution in a very direct waya good conference indeed

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  4. TWP – your completely wrong – particularly in saying its “pure sectarian reaction” to someone who has a political disagreement with you. I think you need to learn that sometimes people disagree without one side being evil and/or stupid.The fact that you don’t understand that there are a lot more people on the left than fall into the brownite or mcdonnell-ite camp doesn’t do much for your argument either.I’m not surprised that HOV has taken this position as last year there was rather strong hostility to the idea that we need to broaden our political vision beyond the labour party.Having said that in general its a very open campaign, and one that’s fairly easy to have disagreements in. I was disappointed I couldn’t make it but was bringing people to the climate change demo.Incidently, the cambridge delegate is not a member of labour, does nothing for labour and only argues support for jm in the abstract and has never, and will never, do anything to actually support the campaign – which makes me believe it is not a real political position but rhetoric.

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  5. Jim – I never said anyone was “evil and/or stupid”, I said “sectarian”. Unlike the terms you choose to employ, my use of the term “sectarian” is a legitimate political interpretation. I never said that the only people who exist on the left are in the McDonnell or Brownite camps either and only someone who isn’t active on the left would believe such a thing. I am referring to what comrade MacUaid said in his blog and to me last night over drinks about the Brownites specifically.Finally your hostility to those supporting McDonnell seems to suggest that contrary to your argument for “broadening” the campaign, you’d be quite happy for those who support McDonnell to be absent unless they live up to your standard of activity or political viewpoint in addition to supporting his campaign.

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  6. Louisefeminista Avatar
    Louisefeminista

    Having attended the conference I was utterly surprised that the McDonnell resolution would cause so much consternation. I agree with TWP and especially the fact John M. has backed the Bolivarian resolution from the start and is joint-president. We also have to show the people of Venezuela that we oppose Blair and co. and that there are committed socialists in the ranks who support the revolution. What is so wrong with taking that stand? Nothing.Some of the speakers who supported the resolution were active trade unionists. I think it was absolutely right for the HoV to take a stand and back the John 4 Leader campaign. And being a LP member myself it was good to see it happen. Jim, what should the HoV done instead then?I also think TWP is correct when she says that the argument for solidarity campaigns not supporting a political campaign does not seem right. It is damn bizarre in my opinion. I too think it was sectarian as well.

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  7. Louisefeminista Avatar
    Louisefeminista

    The other thing i wanted to just quickly add was when Liam spoke about not supporting the resolution he mentioned that John M. was active in supporting the Guildford 4 and B’ham 6 campaigns from the start. Well, that’s precisely one of the reasons why you do back McDonnell as he has an impeccable record and is a committed socialist. The left has to make a noise as it seems like we don’t exist. The McDonnell campaign can be the start of something. At least we are doing something and backing the campaign shows signs of life on the left.

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  8. TWP – what hostility to McDonnell? I’m not hostile to the campaign at all. I just don’t think it is in the remit of a broad campaign – of which several leading members are rather hostile to labour – to take a position on this.When Chavez visited london a while ago he went out of his way to have meetings with the Greens (and wore a green party scarf during his speech), with Labour members well outside of JM’s camp, Tariq Ali (who voted LibDem at the general god help him) and leading Respect members. This was the correct thing to do – reaching out to the many political strands that could be sources of potential support.So the answer to louise is i think instead of passing this resolution HoV should not have passed it. This does mean it should be hostile JM, I think he’s great, but we should not be sending out a message that this is a labour party campaign.Nor does it mean that the JM campaign should not exist, but socialist appeal in particular (for all their many impressive features) have found it very difficult to seperate their own political agenda from that of HoV.So for instance every time I hear Alan Woods spoeak he always criticises the rest of the left for being slow to support the revolutionary process. Well, he can do this on SA platforms, but on HoV platforms where surely the task is to bring people INTO the campaign rather than seperate yourself FROM them it is simply counterproductive.And just to clear up confusion over the evil / stupid thing I was refering to a general method of debate rather than you specifically – although it was sparked by the use of the phrase “pure sectarian reaction” which seemed completely over the top.

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  9. Are the Greens and various bigwigs in Respect all that bothered that HOV has voted this way? If they are they are being over sensitive. What is wrong with a campaign saying that it supports a particular development in a political party, it does not stop it from welcoming and supprting somrthing happening in the Green Party for instance.

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  10. I am evil, stupid and sectarian which is my usual reason for disagreeing with TWP. But let’s proceed by analogy. Should the Stop The War Coalition take a view on the leadership of the Liberal Democrats? Lots of Lib Dems are against the war. Should CND express opinions on who gets elected onto the SWP national committee? This is all about political method and building the broadest unity in united fronts. People can disagree about every topic under the sun in a united front so long as they agree on the central aims. It’s quite unprecendented for a solidarity movement to pass a resolution like this in my experience and if Labour were still a functional mass party this sort of decision would immediately alientate all those who were not Mc Donnell supporters. You have to have some type of theory in your approach to these decisions rather than allowing youself to be driven by nothing but admiration for John.

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  11. I suspect that nobody in the Greens will be bothered.Chavez was very supportative when we chatted to him during the london visit and the GPEW has affliated to Venezuela Information Centre…but if HOV are doing good work all power to them.I guess the issue is to get Greens, McDonnell, etc ..to give solidarity to Venezuela..

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  12. liam,i actually do not think your argument at the HOV conference was sectarian (though I think it was wrong)it is a fair point to raise, that solidarity campaigns should be broad based and that taking position on specific political points like this might undermine that.however, as someone else said here, and as the comrade from Cambridge said, in this particular case, supporting John McDonnell’s leadership bid, DOES affect Venezuela:- he is the MP who started solidarity work for Venezuela in Parliament and in general- he has consistently supported the Venezuelan revolutionas opposed to all those in the Blair cabinet who have consistently oppossed Venezuela and the Bolivarian revolution and gave support to the coup.thus, the election of John McDonnell would be of direct relevance to the Venezuelan revolution and we should take a position on that.the resolution as it is worded does not ask anybody to affiliate to the LP. JM campaign’s involves many more than just LP members, for starters millions of trade union members in affiliated unions.in any case, it was a good debate, worth having and in the end a vote was taken.as for what Jim says about “last year there was rather strong hostility to the idea that we need to broaden our political vision beyond the labour party.” I am not sure what you are talking about. You (I assume it was you) made a proposal in this respect, pointing out there were too many LP members on the steering cte. your point was taken (together with another one on the need for representation of local groups). this year nominations have been opened and all those which have arrived have been included in the voted slate (none of them LP members), including Liam. also an amendment was made to the constitution to include delegates from local groups. Respect has affiliated to HOV nationally and in one local branch (all because of the work of Liam)this is all positive, if you have any other ideas about how to broaden the steering cte more, you are more than welcome to make them.just so that you can sleep tonight, Alan Woods this time did not criticise anybody for being slow on taking up the issue of Venezuela ;-)comradely

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  13. Hardly evil, rarely sectarian, but on this occasion wrong would be my verdict on the position Liam adopted on the McDonnell resolution at the Hands off Venezuela conference. While I would have a good deal of sympathy in general with his argument about the limited nature of united fronts – with a solidarity campaign of this sort being one example – I don’t think that the analogies he makes in defence of his original posting stand up to scrutiny. CND, for example, is not and has never been a socialist movement, despite the presence of many socialists within its ranks. And the SWP, however significant relative to the rest of the British far left, is still a far cry from an admittedly hollow shell of a Labour Party (at constituency level most everywhere), which still retains affiliations from unions representing millions of workers.I certainly disagree with Socialist Appeal’s seemingly timeless strategic orientation to the Labour Party and at the end of the day John’s programme is not “the answer”, but I actually think that the McDonnell campaign poses very important, indeed fundamental, questions for the labour movement and for progressive campaigns in general. All the signs are that the only possible “alternative” to Gordon Brown in the Labour leadership election will be McDonnell and in that context it does not seem inappropriate to me that a campaign with a labour movement orientation in solidarity with the “Venezuelan revolution” takes a stand.We all know that Brown has effectively signed up to a long-term alliance with Washington as the principal junior partner of US imperialism globally.As Liam and presumably others know the largely pro-Brown centre of the official labour movement bureaucracy set up the Venezuela Information Centre UK as a rival to HoV, so in a very real sense the split has already occurred. Whether HoV will prove itself the qualitatively better campaign in the long run remains to be seen, but I don’t think its chances are harmed by supporting the McDonnell campaign.

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  14. Louisefeminista Avatar
    Louisefeminista

    “Whether HoV will prove itself the qualitatively better campaign in the long run remains to be seen, but I don’t think its chances are harmed by supporting the McDonnell campaign.”Totally agree comrade Binette.

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  15. While not a Socialist Resistance supporter, and not at the HOV conference, I very much agree with Liam’s view on the John McDonnell campaign. I’m a member of the Labour Party and very involved in JMcD’s campaign, but I still think it wrong for single issue or solidarity campaigns to take a position on this. Someone correctly draws the analogy, would HOV take a view on an internal election in the Lib Dems or SWP? Of course not, and it is totally inappropriate to take one on John McDonnell. That doesn’t stop supporters of HOV arguing with other supporters that they should back JMcD and get involved in his campaign, but that is very different to HOV taking a formal position.Surely it’s basic to `single issue’ campaigns that they do not take a position on issues beyond their remit, otherwise they are likely to limit their appeal.While it might be argued that all supporters of the Venezualan revolution here would support JMcD, the principle remains the same.

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  16. I was myself doubtful about wether the motion was appropiate or not, but in the end voted in favour, on the basis of the argument that a defeat for Brown and victory for John McDonnell would make a big difference to the Venezuelan revolutionI am sure if there was a pro-Bolivarian revolution candidate and one against within the SWP internal elections then I would be in favour of HOV taking a position on that! 🙂

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  17. Well I’m glad Alan Woods avoided attacking the rest of the left this time – it must only be when I’m in the audience he feels tempted to do so…Also it sounds like the conference was a success and I’m very pleased Liam was elected to the steering group as last year over 3/4 of them were labour party members which I think was a mistake – but it was the first conference and I think we all accepted it takes a certain amount of time to get some things properly sorted.Out of interest, who else was elected?To a certain extent I think Derek’s comment backs up what I’m saying because although he says Greens wont be that bothered he also says they don’t back HoV. Why would it be that a green socialist like Derek who believes in grass roots activism doesn’t automatically orient to HoV? And should we give up on attracting people like him?I really feel the people who’ve voted for this motion have put their own domestic political agenda in front of what’s good for HoV – but it’s not such a terrible error that I’ll leave the campaign (and we’re planning events in the next couple of weeks in Cambridge which I’m rather looking forward to)

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  18. Oh – another example – Derek Wall is standing for principle speaker of the Green Party right now and he is open in his support for the Venezuelan process and has developed many direct links in that country, as well as having met with Chavez.He is standing against Keith Taylor who may or may not have a position on Venezuela but is certainly not as explicitly ‘of the left’.Electing Derek would directly raise the profile of Venezuela inside the green movement and the left (although obviously not to the same extent as John M) will anyone on the HoV steering committee be proposing active support?

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  19. Hi,It seems that after all the discussion there are still people who do not understand that what is happening in Venezuela is a revolution, whose tasks are those of a socialist revolution. It is seems then bizarre to me that somebody can come up with the idea of not suporting John McDonnell becuase it may alineate the right wing of labour, the greens or Tariq Ali (lib dem. None of these groups will support the revolution right to the end. It is like the argument in Venezuela in favour of holding back the nationalisation and expropiation processes so that not to scare off a suppousedly revolutonary middle class layer in Venezuela. In the fight in defense of the Venezuelan revolution these forces and fine gentlemen whom some seem fear to scare by coherently taking the necessary political and organisational steps in defense of the revolution will not play any significant role at the moment of truth.The only solidarity the venzuelan revolution can count on is that of the workers and youth in Britain and its organasations.The support of the Campaign to McDonnell in Britain is like the support for Chavez in Venezuela. That is a political act in defense of the revolution!!

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  20. Thanks for proving my point Elias

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  21. As I said before, this remind me of the reformist and sectarian positions in Venezuela itself. “Let’s try to compromise and bring in the opposition. In the end their interest is the interest of Venezuela too and Venezuela belongs to all us, etc, etc.” or, “Do not vote for Chavez! He’s a bourgeois bonapartist, the main obstacle for the building of a purely socialist revolutionary mass party, etc, etc”.Fortunately, the 200 delegates that attended the voting session, saw clear, beyond any sectarian or partidist consideration, the need to take concrete political action.In spite of everything, neihter RESPECT nor the GREENS nor LIB DEM will be fighting for the Premiership. As always it will be a race between Labour and Conservatives. The candidate of Labour will depend on a struggle within Labour in which, in defense of the revolution in Venezuela, HoV has taken a clear position. That is all.

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  22. Elias, I see that on you site you have a link to the Marxist Internet Archive. It took me about 20 seconds to get these two quotes from Trotsky on the united front. They sum up rather well the method that I and the other SR supporter were trying to use at the HOV conference. It was true then and it still applies. Especially the bit about hollow phrases. Try changing the names from those of German politicians in the 1930s to those of modern Labourites.http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1930-ger/311208.htm“I went directly to the Committee for National Defense, where I discussed and adopted decisions regarding the struggle against Kornilov with the Menshevik Dan and the Social Revolutionary Gotz, [2] allies of Kerensky who had kept me in prison. Was this right or wrong?””It is necessary to show by deeds a complete readiness to make a bloc with the Social Democrats against the fascists in all cases in which they will accept a bloc. To say to the Social Democratic workers: “Cast your leaders aside and join our “nonparty” united front” means to add just one more hollow phrase to a thousand others. We must understand how to tear the workers away from their leaders in reality.”

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  23. Hi,I belive you are mixing up a couple of concepts. 1) A United Front of WORKERS ORGANISATIONS AND PARTIES2) Popular Front, in which WORKERS ORGANISATIONS AND PARTIES MINGLE WITH BOURGEOIS PARTIES.Trotsky was referrin to the first, you are referring to the second. Therefore the quotes are miningful or rather they only point out a certain theoretical misunderstanding on your part.In spite of what you can hear from the SWP or, in your case, SR, Stop the War Coalition is not a UNITED FRONT, but a POPULAR FRONTIST. How could it be otherwise when, as you recongnise, the LIB DEM are also in?That is the reason of its dramatic and constant failure.Basically, that is the great problem of the STWC; that is a broad organisation in which differnt interest, not just from each party, but from different and contending classes are incluided. The great failure of STWC, in spite of all its numbers, is that is a pacifist organisation without a class line.HoV is a broad solidarity organisation as its constitution recongnises and as it was shown on saturday, but it has a certain advantage in respect to other organisation. Its third article says “Support the new trade union confederation, the UNT, as the legitimate voice of the workers’ movement”.That small thing. The orientation to the workers movement in Venezuela as well as in Britain is what draws the line. What would allow HoV to orient itself towards the formula of a UNITED FRONT rahter than a POPULAR FRONT.And that is also its strength and its only chance of success in Defense of the “Venezuelan revolution”, what is the aim of the campaign, and not to attend to this or that interest of this or that particular tendency.Comradely

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  24. Hands Off Venezuela Avatar
    Hands Off Venezuela

    hi Jim,actually I did not have a clue that there was a leadership contest in the Green Party and that Venezuela was an issue in it, I am sure that everybody in the steering committee of HOV will be interested in this (this is not irony), and if you know of ways in which HOV could get in touch with Derek Wall and discuss the campaign can be taken into the Green party, please let us knowthough as you say, a Green Party leader that supports the Venezuelan revolution is not the same thing as a Labour Party leader doing the same thing (this IS irony)comradely

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  25. I’m not his agent or anything, but as you’ve asked… You can find Derek’s blog here which has his email address walldddREMOVETHISBIT@hotmail.comI recieved my ballot paper today with candidate’s statements. Derek’s is the only one to mention Chavez and the need to oppose iperialism and capitalism.He might even win.

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  26. Oh blimey, whenver I read a discussion descend into counterposition of popular fronts and united fronts i want to reach for my (Red army issue?) revolver.Surely when talking about uniting working class organisation it is a precondition that these organistations actually exist? Or that they have sufficient social weight to influence events?In the absence workers organisations having sufficent social weight, then some progressive tasks may need the ivolvement of bourgeois forces to proceed.In any event, the discussion aboy popular fronts and united fronts, that we can trace back to Lenin’s Two tactics of social democracy, referred to the tasks of socialsit parties with regard to the overthrowing of pre-capitalist social relations, or in the case of Trotsky’s writings referred to the task of workers parties in relation to the struggle for state power.How this can be extended to s single issue campaign is a bizarre misreading of the texts, and shows the poverty of marxism in the hands of most “Marxists”.IMO – HOV can simulateously both be a single issue campaign, and also seek to further developments within British political institutions that help promote solidarity, such as supporting candidates in internal elections who support the Bolivarian revolution. If they are supportign JD becasue he supports the Bolvarian revolution, then there is no contradiction. If they are supporting him becasue they think the Labour party needs Marxist leadership, then Liam’s point has some legs. In any event the sway that HOV has in the campa9gn may be quite limited! Surely it is comepleyely sensible for them to draw attention to HOV supporters that on eof the Leadrership candidates in the LP, and one national speaker candidate in the greens, support the Bolvarian revolution?Why on Earth you need to bring in trotsky on China to decide that beats me.

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