Reading between the lines of some of the recent discussion on Respect I think I’veTuxedo detected a slight undercurrent of hostility to the project and some of its principal personalities. Or maybe I’ve misunderstood.

The view I’ve got least sympathy for is any variant on the the theme “we don’t need another party. We’ve got Labour. That’s where the real action is.” Those arguments have been gone over so thoroughly that I see no useful purpose raising them again. Apparently some loyal fans continue to buy each new album from the Rolling Stones in case it might be less than dreadful. A similar impressive dedication must be what drives people to remain with Labour.

A more interesting line of discussion is the one developed by supporters of Permanent Revolution which remains the best journal produced on the British far left. Writing in the Autumn 2007 issue Stuart King argues that where the Socialist Alliance, and subsequently Respect, went wrong was that they declined the opportunity of saying to the working class “that the alternative needed to Labourism was revolutionary communism”. (p.17). He asks the question “Could an election campaign, waged on a revolutionary programme…win support?”

It should be pretty easy to test out that proposal. Pick a ward or constituency, throw everything you’ve got at it for as long as you can and then wait till election night. The reason no one does it in 2007 is because to ask the question is to answer it. Virtually every fight that the British working class has fought in the last couple of decades has been defensive and usually by an isolated sector. The one constant factor is that the union bureaucracies have either tried to prevent or curtail militant action and a lot of the time their justification has either been the need to re-elect Labour or the obligation to obey Labour’s anti-union laws.

fightingThat goes some part of the way to explaining why the principal strategic task for the left is to help create a mass alternative party to Labour. Until Labour’s political grip on union activists and vanguard workers is weakened by the creation of a plausible alternative we are unlikely to see the emergence of large scale class struggle formations in the unions. I think this also holds true of struggles around issues like housing and ecology.

The experience of both the Socialist Alliance and Respect shows that the initial core components of such a new formation will come from the Marxist left. The manner in which they administer and organise the new formation will have a huge bearing on how it develops. The SWP opted for a tight central control while allowing George Galloway and the councillors to operate independently. As we have seen that forced out most socialists and made it very unattractive to most class struggle militants.

Respect has a left reformist political programme. Stuart describes it as “populist” as well. For sure it has made more populist statements than you can shake a stick at. Some months ago it tried to launch a short lived campaign to “name and shame” people going to lapdancing clubs. But Marxists have never had a problem about working in reformist parties, particularly ones that are explicitly anti-imperialist and anti-neoliberal. It all depends on what you try to do inside them.

A party is both something that you use to fight and something inside which you fight. The only reason that LGBT rights are now accepted inside the Labour Party was because people organised to fight for them. Respect too is an arena of struggle. It was supporters of Socialist Resistance who in 2005 took up the issue of LGBT rights inside the organisation. In that year it was five SR supporters and a handful of others who were Respect’s presence at Pride. In 2007 the organisation had a float at the event. Admittedly this was due to internal politics but the issue is now on the table again and can only result in a shared understanding that LGBT rights are an integral part of any socialist organisation’s programme.

Similarly with the debate around internal democracy. All the demands that have been central to SR’s involvement in Respect are now right at the heart of the discussion.

The debate on the question of reform or revolution only becomes real and live inside an organisation like Respect when it is being talked about inside the working class. That’s not a conversation that is often had round here at the moment. That’s why I find Stuart’s blunt posing of the issue dogmatic and unenlightening. The more meaningful questions at the moment are “how can one engage in struggles in a way that makes them successful, develops consciousness and combativity and helps those involved draw political and organisational conclusions?”

I can’t speak for the SWP or George Galloway but I do know that not one supporter of Socialist Resistance sees Respect as the new mass alternative to Labour. It will be, or sections of it will be, part of such an alternative. Now that a real strategic discussion is happening inside it there is a chance to introduce the ideas of socialist democracy to a new audience with the aim of making the organisation attractive to new forces.

At the same time it is possible to function as an independent Marxist current. Half a dozen SR supporters are going to the ecosocialist panning meeting in Paris this weekend. This too is part of our commitment to helping develop a mass class struggle alternative to social democracy.

I’ll write up a report of that on my return.

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31 responses to “Parties – things for fighting with and in”

  1. Liam. Sorry to say but I find this staggeringly conservative.

    What on earth is the basis of the asumption that building a credible left-of-Labour is likely to be initiated by Marxist Far Left Parties? The fact that such groups have formed the core of the two attempts to date is a massive problem and in large measure explains one’s failure and the other’s stagnation.

    This isn’t red-baiting or self-hatred. Rather it is a realisation that the bulk of these groups to a lesser-or-greater extent lack the organisational resources, the commitment to pluralism and participation, experience and roots outwith of their own cosy worlds to generate anything much broader than themselves. Add to that miserable mix the preponderant control culture and craving for party discipline at the expense of free-thinking and is it any wonder that the Far Left can initiate but is incapable of letting go in such a way for a left-of-Labour party to develop and grow in its own image.

    The Left-of-Labour Space if it limited to the Far Left is doomed from the start. Left-of-Labour is more or less a place called Social Democracy, thats how far Blairist-Brownite Labour has travelled . Combine that space with an immersion in the culture of extra-parliamentary social movements and you have an idea of the potential for such a space. And you equally have an inkling what a minor role the Far Left should have within it if you genuinely want it to succeed rather than serve the interests of a Central Committee and its diktats.

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  2. A party is both something that you use to fight and something inside which you fight.

    This is a very good point – debate and factionalism is a sign of organisational health, not weakness.

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  3. For the ruling class it is seen as weakness — from their perspective parties are for delivering “reforms” and “modernisation” with predictable results. I recall that former Liberal leader was mocked as being little more than a party chairman when he failed to win a motion for privatising Royal Mail at the conference. How terrible that the leadership was defeated – and on such an important matter. Now, Labour has done away with real debate and decisions on policy at its conference. Perhaps in future, policymaking will be put out to tender…?

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  4. Tim there is more to the internet than making the same two points about George Galloway 30 times a day. Why not try to develop an additional interest in badgers, pornography, music or cars instead?
    Mark I was taking the scenic route to argue against the PR comrades. It’s self evident that anything limited to the far left is not going to replace Labour but at the same time the left groups organise many of the people that would be part of such a party.

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  5. I am a bit bewildered that you counterpose Respect to Permanent Revolution, a sort fo sealed knot society for reenacting the October Revolution.

    I think if respect is going to fill the political space vacated by new labour we should see Compass as more relevent than the fragmentary trot groups. I don’t mean that the centre left are goig to join us, but even the basic social-democratic reforms being put on the agenda by Compass are too radical for the government, and that creates a huge space to be filled.

    What i have been struck with, and some of this has been by phone and private e-mail rather than the public blog stuff, is how there is suddenly an opening of channels of communication over quite a wide spread of opinion. This is the coincidence of the debate in respect with the crisis for the left in the LP.

    The challenge is this. At the moment there is no political party in England that is even promising to systematically use parliament to make life better for working people, and oppose the neo-liberal race to the bottom of privatisation and deregulation.

    yes, yes there are the Greens, but I think the Greens are structurally incapable of filling the space becasue they are too conservative. (all white british candidates for Tower Hamlets council!!)

    Do we dare try to fill it? Not if we have permanent Revolution on our radar we don’t.

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  6. Liam. I’m sorry didn’t mean to be quite so tetchy but your response still bothers me >

    “It’s self evident that anything limited to the far left is not going to replace Labour but at the same time the left groups organise many of the people that would be part of such a party ”

    If ‘the left groups organise many of the people that would be part of such a party’ then it what meanmingful sense will that party be something beyond those groups? This isn’t simply a debating point its a crucial strategic conception. Is the orientation overwhelmingly towards those left out of politics by Labours march rightwards and the antics of the Westminster bubble, disorganised idealists and marginalised communities. Or is it about a cobbled-together grouping of Left organisations.

    If its the latter then existing ways of working will persist, narrowness prevails and failure beckons.

    If its the former then an entirely new way of politics is required founded on pluralism, participation and prefigurative practice. And to be really attractive being part of such a party should be pleasurable too.

    The Respect NC resolution while an improvement still hankers after an old model of politics, the CPB and Bob Wareing are the priorities to ally with, and the big exciting new initiative, ‘recruitment rallies’. Wow, that’s going to set the nation alight isn’t it? The parameters of this debate are so narrow that this kind of thing is sen as a big leap forward while in actual fact its a tiny step. The boundaries of the debate need to be pushed at, not indulging the fantasies of a far left grouplet but really thinking through how a politics and practice of a Left-of-Labour party might be founded.

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  7. “Half a dozen SR supporters are going to the ecosocialist panning meeting in Paris ”

    What’s so bad about ecosocialists that they deserve to be panned?

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  8. Liam,

    I agree and was considering writing a response to PR. The thing is that Stuart’s piece is at odds with their position on politics generally adopted at the last aggregate which was that PR existed largely as a propaganda group that was participating in rebuilding the trade unions from the bottom up as far as their limited resources and members would allow. This is where the emphasis was.

    Stuart’s piece seems to contain more than a whiff of the old ultra-left WP line that the comrades have since largely rejected – which was the view that the only problem was a crisis of leadership and that the class was ready for a communist programme. As PR comrades have said many times, this is blatantly untrue. They have made great strides in explaning precisely why there is not a “revolution ’round the corner” and why the left, trade unions and so forth are in such a weak state.

    This is the opposite of Stuart’s view in the article and should be challenged.

    RE: LGBT issues – it is true that support for LGBT people was fought for and won within the LP, but we cannot forget that it was also fought for and won in broader society as well – so your analogy between a struggle to have this accepted in Respect and the LP in an earlier time period when it was NOT widely accepted in society at large is disingenuous. The fact that it is now largely not an “abnormal” thing in most people’s eyes for people to be LGBT makes the fact that it had a problem being accepted inside this party, which is supposed to be representing the class and progressive politics generally, ring many alarm bells.

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  9. Tami: PR “have made great strides in explaning precisely why there is not a “revolution ’round the corner” ”

    Yes becasue that is an issue that requires a lot of theoretical sophistication to grasp!

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  10. Mark, your pessimism about the far left being able to work with much broader forces does not tie up with my experience of the Stop the War Coalition, UAF or Defend Council Housing.

    I think the SWP has played a positive role in these campaigns, so much so the sectarian left go on endlessly about its “popular frontism”.

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  11. Well whether or not it took sophistication, it was still beyond the ken of the SWP, SP, Robert Brenner, WP et al.
    The point is that unless you have a materialist analysis of the state of the economy and society, then revolutionary politics will always be reduced to a few shouty sound bites. It’s the reason whenever the SP/SWP needed a few shouty sounds bites, they always took WP speakers.
    I don’t think Stuart was arguing anything remotely similar to that however. Basically he was saying that over the last 10 years, there have been umpteen opportunities to rebuild the left, all of which have resoundingly failed, culminating in the debacle which is Respect.
    Where the SWP promoted politics they had denounced just a few years earlier at the founding of the SA.
    The question is why have all these efforts failed? and its clear that its a combination of poor method to begin with, which btw I’m not absolving WP from, and a refusal to face up to the reality of the post-Stalinist globalisation age.
    That meant as society cam increasingly far from the image of just-around-the-corner crisis/revolt propagated by the left, they had to abandon key principles as there was no other way of relating to the movement which was so far from the image they propagated at the outset.
    Hence a starting point has to be to understand the world in order to change it. However bleeding obvious or otherwise that may seem.

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  12. Liam says, ‘The more meaningful questions at the moment are “how can one engage in struggles in a way that makes them successful, develops consciousness and combativity and helps those involved draw political and organisational conclusions?’

    That is a good way of putting the question in quite a concrete way. If we look at a campaign such asn an anti-deportation campiagn or a strike then I think it can be clear that we can reach out to lots of people, by holding meetings, having pickets or demos, drawing people in.

    Is this counterposed to being a revolutionary? Not in my experience. If we put in the hard work, it is very rare for people to object to our politics. What is our politics? It is that working class people should run things for ourselves, that to do this we need mass movements based on direct democratic control of the workers and that this is how society and the economy should be run too.

    We should be honest in this and completely open and also perfectly willing to participate in united front campaigns around particular actions without putting our views across as ulitmatums.

    Respect though is a political formation not a united front that has explicitly abandoned socialism.

    Stuart’s points are that in an organisation like the Socialist Alliance or any other similar formation that comes out of the creative flux on the left is that we should try and engage as many working clas people as possible in discussion and in action.

    We don’t present our ideas as some kind of selaed knot society (as Andy N amusingly but I’d suggest quite unfairly characterised the revolutionary left) but as fighting answers to today’s problems. So on housing we fight every little injustice that we realistically can and are open that we want high quality housing under tenants’ control; because we fight on every corner people will come along into the campaign.

    They probably won’t agree with us. So? We’re big enough to live with that and carry on working together.
    We don’t have all the answers anyway. But over time I am reasonably confident that when working clas combaitivity and ocnfidence is reignited there will be renewed interest in ideas of socialism and working class control of society.

    There are of course material reasons for the currently weak state of the working class and the truly pitiful state of the revolutionary left within it. Those correspondents who say we need to get over the old ways of squabbling and rancour are right of course.

    But jumping on populist bandwagons, disguising our real ideas, whilst doing deals behind closed doors and then getting the membership to vote for it in a version of democratic centralism that emphasises the centralism and keeps the democracy as windon dressing round conference times and strictly behind closed doors- we need to break with that as well.

    So, let’s try to get together where we can – in solidarity with the postal workers, strikes, campaigns, may be even elections if there’s a candidate of struggle representing a real move in the community- let’s freely and openly without sectarianism or rudeness debate our differing ideas- and don’t forget to do the work.

    We can’t prmise get-rich-quick solutions or revolution round the corner- but that’s good because otherwise people will be rightly suspicious. We can through patient and sytematic campaigning, with fliar, energy and creativity draw in new people and start the small molecualr changes of rebuilding working clas sorganisation- the changes that can when ignited on a larger scale actually change the world.

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  13. Is this counterposed to being a revolutionary? Not in my experience. If we put in the hard work, it is very rare for people to object to our politics.

    I think this relates to a fundamental tenet of the Marxist social ontology, viz. people aren’t stupid. If you put the work in you’ll be respected for that. Not for your politics, but for doing the work – which is as it should be. (“You want a world where what? Oh well, good luck with that. You’ll come down same time tomorrow?”)

    let’s try to get together where we can – in solidarity with the postal workers, strikes, campaigns, may be even elections if there’s a candidate of struggle representing a real move in the community

    Which might mean giving up on lecturing one another about being in the wrong party, as diverting as that is.

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  14. “Not for your politics, but for doing the work – which is as it should be. (”You want a world where what? Oh well, good luck with that. You’ll come down same time tomorrow?”)”

    Sure. But over time there is a chance to get workers involved in thinking about and actually taking steps towards creating socialism. I think we largely need to get away from the idea of that being wining them to our truth as well- what do we know anyway? It can come across as quite elitist.

    But I was responding to the idea Stuart put forward in his article an exceprt of which you can get on Permanent Revolution site that socialists don’t have to hide their views.

    I think Phil’s right about the lectures- but ther have been times when some of the most interesting discussions are about politics. Like my grandad- rest his soul and all that- led a caretakers’ strike in 79 and it was the most vital alive part of his life and the thing that to his last days could make him come vivid, alive, excited.

    I’ve know lots of other examples since. If the postal strike goes nuclear, i.e. wildcat spreading of the action you can bet that there will be lots of political discussions of tactics, strategy and more, Sure if we turn up with slogans and lectures it won’t do anyone any good but if we actually engage that’s an entirely different matter.

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  15. BUt a lot of this stuff about hiding their views is assuming that all socialists are revolutionaries pretending not to be.

    Most socialists social democrats not “revolutionaries” but the organised far left cannot see that becasue they have spent too long talking to themselves

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  16. You do have a point, Andy, that the word ‘socialist’ covers a wide range.

    It probably is the case that most who consider themselves are social democrats- I presume by this you mean people who want to genuinely to see a fairer society and economy but can only see that happening through reforms of the existing system rather than something completely different- a new form of democratic rule of the working class ruling itself.

    My point, though, is that there is a relatively large number of socialists in far left groups- perhaps about 2500 to 3000- mainly in the SWP who do seem to go around hidiong their views- or may be some of them are in fact social democrats because the group has blurred its politics so much.

    However, your wider point about the left speniding too much time talking to itself is of course true. The fact is though this deabte is set up – on this blog entry at least- as a debate among socialists on how we can best reach out to wider layers. I think we can do so best by being open regarding our views, but also humble and listening to real problems

    If we go out on to the estates and workplaces there is a militant minority who can be won to at least a fighting position and we certainly need to relate to them. I have for the last ten years or so done so as a socialist who does want to see a revolution and on the whole I think it hasn’t affected my ability to intervene in the class struggle. Of course there have been a lot of bitty campaigns and not many great victories- though have been a couple of partial ones.

    We can usefully ditch the jargon, the hermetic code and strange rituals- but the ideas of working class self-emancipation, of militant organisation, of direct action and rank and file democracy all retain relevance even if we need new words, new ways of engaging and new practice

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  17. Jason your experience may be different but in the last ten years I’ve been instrumental in organising an anti-deportation campaign for a Colombian family, kickstarting some illegal strike action, winning a ballot against housing stock transfer. This was all “left reformism”. On not one occasion could I have started a discussion about reform or revolution without making it seem a bit odd and contrived. But without the background in revolutionary politics I probably wouldn’t have been able to provide some sort of leadership.
    We are in a period in which we are just about managing to keep alive some notion of class struggle as an effective way of changing the world. Immediately polarising debates in newly emerging formations around the idea of revolution does not advance their level of combativity. It just creates a false division.

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  18. Hi Liam

    Thanks for this. I think you have misunderstood what I am saying so it’s always good to clarify.

    I am saying that it is quite possible to be an open revolutionary whilst playing a leading role in a campaign. As it happens I have some experience in an antideportation campaign too, over the last 3 years.

    I’m not arguing at a\ll to immediately polarise debates- not sure where I sugggested that- or taking resolutions on revolution. It is perfectly possible though to take stands against immigration controls and for militant self-defence- are these left reforms? May be- but it is not left reformism because we as a campaign are not arguing that cahnage can only come about through gradual lobbying and that the system of immigration control for example can be made fairer.

    Being against deportations and kickstarting illegal strike action is not necessarily revolutionary but neither is it reformist- an explicit rejection of revolutionary politics.

    I’m not saying we need to put motions on te revolution to every campaign we’re involved in- that would be mere phrase mongering but that in political action we always promote working class self-organisation and action and link this to the idea that workers should run society ourselves.

    In a political project such as the Socialist Alliance or Respect revolutionary socialists should have the confidence to argue for our policies- not as ultimatums but as part of a democratic debate and an attempt to draw in more working class people.

    “We are in a period in which we are just about managing to keep alive some notion of class struggle as an effective way of changing the world. ”

    Agreed- but even in such a period there is an essential place for the argument that working class people can run our own struggles, our own lives and our own enterprises.

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  19. Jason

    What you have just described very well is that the meaningfull divide in the movement at the moment is not between “revolutionaries” and “reformists”, but between class struggle activists, and those who accept neo-liberlaism and class collaboration.

    The r-r-revolution is an abstract concept in current circumstances. The job of marxists is to work within the mass organisations, (and in the case of a political party we need to try to create a mass party), not with the aim of winning those mass movements to positions that we have decided elsewhere in all our marxist wisdom, but exchanging ideas and listening to other people with the aim of moving the whole movement forward, and accepting that other people may have more tactical and strategic wisdom than we do.

    “the argument that working class people can run our own struggles, our own lives and our own enterprises.” is something that we can draw from not only historically,, but in the living examples of Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba etc. BUt it is not the lived experience of working people in this country now, and we may as well be advocating flapping our arms and flying to the moon!

    I know that you are not advocating it, but I despair of those who talk about revolution and sell their turgid papers, while not relating to the actual day to day problems of the progressive movements, and working constructivley in the actually existing campaigns.

    The far left have a cadre and several activists who can play a comstructive role, but only if they see that the only constructive space to be working is to the right of the SWP not to its left.

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  20. Tami,

    There’s a difference between PR’s ability to bow to mainstream thinking on the economy, in rejection of WP’s standpoint, and overturning its ultra-left approach towards workers’ parties. WP and PR seem to share the view that workers’ parties either adopt revolutionary programmes or they need to be broken. that’s propagandist, and smells a little of Bordiga.

    Donald.

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  21. Frankly I don’t understand your point.

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  22. I don’t understand Donald’s point either- all these references to Bordiga pass me by I’m afraid (I could google it but why can’t we just speak in more understandable terms?)

    I suspect he means that some on the left say either be fully fledged revolutionaries or we’ll denounce you and not participate in any joint work. Some on th eleft may do that but it’s certainly not what I’m advocating (or the others in Permanent Revolution).

    We are open in our beliefs and arguments that working class people can and should run society and that we need a revolution and also accept that many workers right now are not ready to accept that (though as a caveat I have been arguing that it is easier than many people might assume if we put our arguments in new less abstract ways rather than abstract seemingly alien code- but still accept it will be a minority of a minority).

    I agree with some of what Andy says-

    ‘What you have just described very well is that the meaningfull divide in the movement at the moment is not between “revolutionaries” and “reformists”, but between class struggle activists, and those who accept neo-liberlaism and class collaboration.
    The r-r-revolution is an abstract concept in current circumstances. The job of marxists is to work within the mass organisations, (and in the case of a political party we need to try to create a mass party), not with the aim of winning those mass movements to positions that we have decided elsewhere in all our marxist wisdom, but exchanging ideas and listening to other people with the aim of moving the whole movement forward, and accepting that other people may have more tactical and strategic wisdom than we do.
    “the argument that working class people can run our own struggles, our own lives and our own enterprises.” is something that we can draw from not only historically,, but in the living examples of Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba etc. BUt it is not the lived experience of working people in this country now, and we may as well be advocating flapping our arms and flying to the moon!’

    The bits I agree with: we need to participate in struggles, we need to listen to workers’ concerns, we need to actually engage, not believe we have all the right answers. I think we should be trying to win mass movements to the ideas and practices of revolution but of course no one let alone small marxist organisations should proclaim it has all the truth or wisdom- far from it.

    I also agree we need a mass party and think this will come out of mass struggles. So we should be spending our time in trying to rebuild the networks of activists who can launch such meanigful struglges, whether shop stewards-workplace reps- , tenants’ reps, community organisers etc.

    The bit I disagree with is that this osmehow means positioning ourselves as to the right of the swp- we should be to the left in the sense not of proclaiming abstract slogans (what Andy presumably means by r-r-revolution) but advocating rank and file control of struggles and society. It’s not as if by becoming more explicitly right-wing people will flock to us- we need rather to actively engage and come up with policies that speak to workers’ burning needs, put in the work, be non-sectarian, freindly, co-operative, working together and speak in terms workers understand.

    This should be in all campaigns including electoral ones where there are candidates of struggle representing a real base in the local community.

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  23. Jason: “we should be trying to win mass movements to the ideas and practices of revolution”

    This is what we shouldn’t be doing, and this is why you still position yourself to the lft of the SWP, whch is futile.

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  24. I am always amused by the distinction between revolution and reform. The word revolution seems to make people think you’re up for lopping off the Queen’s head, and “reform” is the kind of term to be bandied about by folks who are about to sell off the local school or hospital. Within the context of the far left, terms like “left” and “right” applied to one group compared to another don’t make much sense.

    Far better to characterise it as a “process” – of working together for the sake of working people. Better to build mass movements before trying to win them to the ideas of practices of revolution – I’m glad that you acknowledge this, Jason.

    I’m not sure if your comrade in PR, bill j, shares your non-sectarian attitude – did he not say of Respect “the sooner it goes, the better”? (http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2007/10/02/george-galloway-seeks-poplar-nomination/#comment-2055)

    I don’t know who it would be better for – perhaps Michael Crick could do another gloating report on Newsnight, the pro-war liberals could spew out sneering columns of text on the demise of socialism…

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  25. […] Parties – things for fighting with and in …enterprises." is something that we can draw from not only historically,, but in the living examples of Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba etc. BUt it is… […]

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  26. Andy, perhaps Charlie puts it quite well. We have to build the mass movements before we can win them to revolution.

    However, I’m not in favour of the idea that we stay silent on political matters before then because I don’t think the tasks are counterposed. It may be that most of our energy now and for years to come is in winning basic arguments about the need for organisation, about the importance of class and fighting together. But within that we cana and should still talk and write about how working class people can run society and how in certain places now and other places at other times there have been revolutionary situations.

    Perhaps, Andy thinks this is futile- fair enough time will tell- but he seems to agree that we should be doing basic class struggle work. On that we’re more than happy to work alongisde him and others.

    On Respect, I think we should also of course work alongside any Respect activists in building united front campaigns and rebuilding the basic fighting tools of working class organisation. However, Respect as currrently formed I am not convinced is the right vehicle.

    I am not just condemning it without thinking or because it’s policies aren’t perfect- we worked in the Scoialist Alliance precisely because we believed it was a process. Respect seemed a step back from that, in terms of making deals with small business owners and personality politics but still I have some sympathy with those who said let’s go in and fight to turn it in an outwards direction. I’m not convinced yet that that has happened sufficiently for me or many other militants to join. I think there needs to be far more co-operation on the ground, concentration on building grassroots organisations of the class from the bottom up, engaging with unions etc.

    There will be times when candidates of struggle are well worthy of support in order to broaden out campaigns, make them more explicitly political and stregthen working class workplace and community organisations. I wouldn’t rule out backing a candidate who had such real roots even if s/he was a member of Respect.

    But I think especially now the immediate threat of a snap election is postposned we need a wide engaging debate and unity of action to draw in hundreds and even thousands more activists back to class politics in the meantime. We’re more than happy to engage wth Respect members as well as others in such a process.

    I hope this is seen as non-sectarian. I sincerely believe it is.

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  27. I don’t agree with the counterposition of building mass movements, to building revolutionary mass movements. If revolutionary politics are to be anything more than an abstract conviction in a future state of the world, they have to relate to the present.
    The reason that the abandonment of revolutionary politics is so important is because of the effects it has on current practice. We see this very clearly in the evolution of the Socialist Alliance/Respect, it began as a dumping of revolution, then it became a dumping of socialism, then it became a dumping of the working class character of the organisation, then it became a dumping of various other shibboleths etc.
    Let’s take the postal workers dispute. How should revolutionaries relate to it? Indeed do revolutionary politics politics matter at all in it?
    Certainly they do. The bureaucracy of the CWU are leading this strike to disaster. This is not just because they are incompetent and duplicitious. It is because of their social role as negotiators with capitalism – labour lieutenants of capital in the working class movement – a phrase that seems to have been forgotten by the left, but which summarises their role very well.
    Respect’s support for the strike goes no further than supporting it as a good idea. Well fine and good as far as it goes. But that’s not very far. As insofar as it is combined with support for Billy Hayes, the very leadership who are leading the strike to disaster, such a policy will not lead the strike to victory.
    Hence revolutionary socialist politics do have a meaning in the present. And this is why revolutionaries must first of all be honest about the world – in order that the key policy differences are something more than a shouty set of abstractions about a future world.
    And that’s why the juxtaposition of the mass movement to revolutionary socialism is as disasterous today as when Luxemburg first pointed it out a 100 years ago.

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  28. Jason, you are a sweetie.

    Bill, I think it would be wrong if Respect came out and slammed Billy Hayes and the CWU during an ongoing strike! I for one haven’t forgotten the labour lieutenants critique – i think it is correct to view Hayes in such a way.

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  29. Thanks, if that’s a compliment.

    On Charlie’s response to Bill’s point it would be prefectly possible to have a good strong position on the union bureacracy that was polite and not ‘slamming’ – to encourage rank and file control and co-ordination of the strike, to support practical steps towards organising a network of militants and warn militants that union leaderships should be watched.

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  30. Jason – it was a compliment.

    You’re right, of course, that it is possible to call for rank’n’file control w/out attacking the leadership – i was wrong to pose it as a dichotomy…

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  31. If a week is a long time in politics – how long is a fortnight in the blogosphere – an aeon no doubt! But having just found this critique of the article I wrote for PR6 I thought I ought to rally to its defence. Of course Liam is welcome to extend his critique in the feedback section of our journal.

    Liam starts by saying ‘Stuart King argues that where the Socialist Alliance, and subsequently Respect, went wrong was that they declined the opportunity of saying to the working class “that the alternative needed to Labourism was revolutionary communism”. (p.17).’

    In fact I said the SA went wrong for more reasons than this – the attempt to keep it only as an electoral alliance, ‘parking it’ outside election time, the SWPs view of it as a “united front of a special type” etc all these are given as reasons for its failure. And maybe I didn’t emphasise enough the objective difficulties – the weakness of the trade union rank and file and the failure to break the bureaucratic (and Labourite) stranglehold on the movement and the resultant low level of struggle.

    But the issue that Liam (and also Tami) wants to take up is the question of whether fighting for revolutionary politics is possible at the moment. Do we need to “cut our political cloth” to the low level of class struggle and consciousness at the moment? This is a serious question for revolutionaries (and an old one). In PR we think it is possible through using a transitional revolutionary, programme to argue for communist politics in the working class, even in non-revolutionary periods. This question goes to the heart of our differences, and explains why we took a critical position within the SA and opposed the populist turn to Respect.

    Andy Newman expresses the left social democrats approach to the question “The r-r-revolution is an abstract concept in current circumstances” he says. And his alternative is, “At the moment there is no political party in England that is even promising to systematically use parliament to make life better for working people, and oppose the neo-liberal race to the bottom of privatisation and deregulation” so we have to build such a party.

    He is saying that revolution is a far off concept, and in the here and now we need a reformist party that furthers workers interests in parliament. It is the old maximum/minimum programme of the German Social Democracy transferred to Britain in the 21st century (in fact closer to the pre-1914 Bernstein than to Kautsky.)

    Liam approaches it somewhat differently. First he says the proposal to test whether the working class can be won to a revolutionary programme can be done easily “It should be pretty easy to test out that proposal. Pick a ward or constituency, throw everything you’ve got at it for as long as you can and then wait till election night.”

    Well actually in the SA one of our members did stand on a revolutionary platform – Kirstie in Lewisham ( though maybe the IBT or Sparts would accuse us of being opportunist in calling for a workers government rather than the dictatorship of the proletariat!). And she did not do any better or worse than a lot of other SA candidates. We could point out a whole number of constituencies where Respect (having dumped even socialism from its platform) – has done a lot worse – in Southall recently for example. So this does not prove that throwing overboard your principles, building a “broad party”, is any more effective at garnering votes.

    I am sure if Liam thinks about this argument for a few minutes he will see its weaknesses. Electoral campaigns and their success depend on a number of factors – the class struggle, local struggles, the rootedness of the candidate in these struggles, the ability of the campaign to get their ideas and arguments into the estates, workplaces, schools etc. And, as Jason pointed out, workers do vote for candidates even though they don’t agree with all their ideas – as in the trade unions, they vote for them as class fighters, battlers for their corner, even if they don’t agree with their entire programme. What we dispute is the idea that a revolutionary action programme, focused towards a particular election and political situation is going to “put workers off”. This is the argument of comrades who have no confidence in their politics, or who are travelling in Andy Newman’s direction, to left reformism away from revolution.

    Liam makes a second point that ‘The more meaningful questions at the moment are “how can one engage in struggles in a way that makes them successful, develops consciousness and combativity and helps those involved draw political and organisational conclusions?”’ I agree that is a more meaningful question but I disagree with the answer that Liam has come up with – Respect. I don’t believe Respect is developing consciousness or combativity by arguing what it does.

    We know that Galloway, your only MP is busily conniving to restrict women’s abortions rights with pro-Lifers in parliament – how does this develop consciousness or combativity on a woman’s right to choose? How does supporting hundreds more religious schools until the numbers are ‘balanced’ help unite the working class? We don’t have to look only to Northern Ireland to see the result, we know how divisive it has been in Glasgow and Liverpool amongst the white working class. What happens when schools are segregated by ethnicity and religion, when we have hundreds of Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist etc schools. How is Respect countering these government proposals? It isn’t, it supports them locally. And how does arguing against the free movement of labour, refusing to fight for no immigration controls, further develop consciousness of internationalism? It does the opposite, amongst white workers it concedes to the “too many immigrants are the problem” argument, and even among ethnic minorities it contribute to the “we’re in, pull up the drawbridge” attitude

    I remember Greg Tucker during an SA election broadcast making the argument for the railways to be renationalised and put under workers control – a transitional demand that needs to be explained and argued for. It links to other arguments as to why the privateers should not be compensated at taxpayers expense but expropriated; how workers control would work, drawing in users, community organization, indeed how workers can takeover and run society. These sort of arguments and demands raise socialist consciousness and campaigning around them with the unions and users raises combativity, yet this is precisely the sort of revolutionary programme and demands that Liam and Respect rule out. Or rather they gut them of their revolutionary content and turn them into reformist nationalisation demands to be brought about through a Respect majority in parliament.

    But Liam has yet another argument – yes it might be a populist party, “But Marxists have never had a problem about working in reformist parties, particularly ones that are explicitly anti-imperialist and anti-neoliberal. It all depends on what you try to do inside them.”

    This is an argument about what vehicle you think is most likely to further working class struggle and revolutionary socialism. Yes revolutionaries can work in reformist or even populist, “peoples front”, parties but the criteria is normally – are the mass of workers there (as in the Labour Party via the TUs, or in the case of the PSUV in Venezuela), or is it a small party without the masses but one moving sharply leftward (as with the ILP after it left the LP in the 1930s).

    Respect is certainly small – 2-3000 and declining, ie the mass of workers aren’t in it, and it is certainly not moving in a left direction. This is not surprising as it represented a rightward initiative by the SWP which in the process involved dumping the SA. I suppose Liam could fall back on what George Galloway used to say when he graced the SWP’s Marxism’s top table “yours is the only game in town” but we will pass on this particular crap game.

    Tami comes at the same problem but as someone outside Respect more sympathetic to working in the LP. For her “Stuart’s piece seems to contain more than a whiff of the old ultra-left WP line that the comrades have since largely rejected – which was the view that the only problem was a crisis of leadership and that the class was ready for a communist programme. As PR comrades have said many times, this is blatantly untrue.”

    I think Tami misunderstands what PR stands for. We certainly think there is “a crisis of leadership” in the working class – isn’t that obvious even from the postal strike sell out alone? I never said in the article that the working class “was ready for a communist programme”, only that revolutionaries can argue a revolutionary transitional programme and gain a hearing amongst militant sections of workers, something the SA should have tried to do. I should add that it is also the duty of revolutionaries to do so, rather than throw overboard their programme to adapt to a supposed more backward and quiescent workers movement.

    The working class will only be “ready for the communist programme”, in the sense of being won over to it in its majority, in the lead up to the revolution, in a revolutionary situation. But this does not mean a revolutionary programme is unusable at any other time – this is the effective position of the Fourth International which turned the 1938 Transitional Programme into an icon, to be worshipped occasionally, but generally kept in locked away in cupboard.

    Tami is also wrong in thinking my article “is at odds with their (PRs) position on politics generally adopted at the last aggregate which was that PR existed largely as a propaganda group that was participating in rebuilding the trade unions from the bottom up ..”, indeed this would be strange as I wrote it in its original form and agreed with the amended document. The article on Respect, like all our articles, was collective in the sense that it had two other political editors. Even more so in this case as it was largely a bringing together and systematisation of arguments members of PR had been making over the last seven years in the SA and in relation to Respects development.

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