Here is a letter from a Manchester Socialist Resistance supporter to his local SWP branch. He begins by thanking them for organising a meeting to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the Russian Revolution and goes on to explore the idea of democratic centralism. If you want to leave comments on it please save your thoughts on state capitalism and bureaucratically deformed workers’ states for our Christmas special on the theme. There’s something to look forward to!

Open Letter to Manchester SWP

Comrades,

Thank you for organising Thursday’s public meeting on the 90th Anniversary of the Russian Revolution, something which is well worth celebrating.

Both Chris Nineham and Colin Barker mentioned some of the disagreements that had wracked the Bolshevik party during 1917. If anything, they understated the extent of those disagreements. The entire central committee maintained, prior to Lenin’s return in April, that socialist revolution simply wasn’t on the cards in Russia, at least until such time as capitalism had been allowed to develop the productive forces, and hence the relative social weight of the working class. As Chris pointed out, the majority of the population were peasants, and the economy was the most backward in Europe .
Trotsky had developed a different analysis, based on his experiences in 1905. But of course he wasn’t a member of the Bolsheviks at that time, and only joined the party after Lenin’s return. Trotsky argued that the bourgeoisie was incapable of carrying out even the democratic tasks of its own revolution, that the role of leadership fell to the working class (at the head of the peasantry) and that in taking power the workers would not halt the revolution at its bourgeois democratic stage, but would allow it to pass over uninterruptedly into a socialist revolution (i.e. in the words of Marx, one that would make despotic inroads into private property.) In response to the central committee’s conservativeness, Lenin wrote the April theses, which agreed in essence with Trotsky’s analysis. He was even prepared to break discipline in order to appeal over the heads of the central committee to the most advanced workers.

Was Lenin threatened with expulsion for this indiscipline? Of course he wasn’t.
By October, after Lenin had won a majority, there were Bolsheviks who argued publicly against the insurrection. Were even these comrades expelled? No they were not.

Nor did the Bolsheviks always vote rigidly as a bloc within the soviets. The disciplined democratic centralism of the Bolsheviks, which is so poorly understood by many of those who describe themselves as Leninists, has to be understood not in the abstract but in the real historical context in which it operated, i.e. as a means of defending the party from a highly repressive Tsarist state apparatus. It was not intended as a means of constraining party members to the extent that they would appear as a monolithic bloc within the workers movement.

I am sure the point I am making here has not escaped you, comrades. It is that the Bolsheviks enjoyed a vibrant and dynamic internal life and were exceedingly tolerant of dissent, even when that dissent was expressed publicly.

On the subject of the behaviour of Bolsheviks within the soviets, Colin later remarked that: “Some people didn’t like the Bolsheviks, just as some people don’t like the SWP. Some of them are even here tonight,” which of course earned a big laugh. Aside from the fact that such remarks are intended to make people from other tendencies feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, which is disingenuous when you have advertised the meeting as a public one, it does betray an element of paranoia. It’s not that we don’t like you, comrades; it’s that on some issues we sometimes disagree with you. Is that so hard to bear?

And I don’t think the analogy between the Bolsheviks and the SWP was entirely accidental either. The entire tenor of the meeting seemed intended to imply that Bolshevik Party = SWP. It is perfectly conceivable that your current may constitute a part of some future mass revolutionary party. But if you actually believe that you are already there, that the SWP is the last word in Bolshevism, that you can safely insulate yourselves from every other strand of Marxist thinking, that every other Marxist current is wrong and you are right, then quite frankly you are deluding yourselves.
I was also surprised to hear Colin confirm in his speech that your group is clinging to the view that the Soviet Union was state capitalist. Although this simplistic view (“neither Washington nor Moscow”) may have helped you in the seventies and eighties to become the largest left group in politically backward Britain (and let’s not forget that the largest left group in pre-1914 Russia wasn’t the Bolsheviks, it was the Mensheviks,) this analysis simply doesn’t bear up to any historical scrutiny. Can you still not see that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a catastrophic defeat of the entire working class, not just within its own territory but globally? What are conditions like now for workers in Uzbekistan , in Kazakhstan , in Russia itself? And how did we get to where we are now, with the most unfavourable balance of forces in living memory, other than via the smashing of the Soviet Union and the subsequent global hegemony of imperialism? An organisation which clings to its old orthodoxy in the face of all the evidence of history has more in common with a religious sect than with the party of Lenin.

These are just some of the issues that we need to discuss and debate comrades, in an open, serious, mature and comradely manner. That is how we educate ourselves as Marxists. That is how we develop our ideas and our theory. Don’t isolate yourselves from the rest of the left in the mistaken belief that isolation will allow you to get on with building the revolutionary party, free from the irritation of people disagreeing with you.
I hope you will take these remarks in the comradely spirit in which they are intended.

Roy

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15 responses to “The Bolsheviks and Respect”

  1. Yep, defending stalinist Russia, that’ll surely convince them that the SR is anything but a delusional sectlet…

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  2. I was quite sympathetic to the staement, until that utter garbage about the “collapse of the Soviet union” being a “catatstrphic defeat of the entire working class”. My gawd; does anyone who’s not an out-and-out Stalinist actually beieve that the vicious police stae that was the USSR had *anything* to do with the working class? Cliffite state capitalism is, of course, political illiteracy – but it’s preferable in its political implications to the Pabloite version of “workers staeism” that ascribes some sort of “progressive” role to the old Stalinist states – a world-view that was surely blown out of the water once and for all in 1989/90!

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  3. Socialist, two points. First thanks for choosing a name to distinguish yourself from the neo cons, liberals and religious nutcases who are the more usual contributors to discussions here.
    Second will you be able to shock us by giving a political reply to some of the points, let’s say about democratic centralism in broad organisations or instructing party members to fill delegations?
    We can all do a god impression of indignant anger but it does get tedious.

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  4. I know Colin well and despite my disappointment that he signed up for the SWP’s petition of distorted half-truths in Respect he’s still high in my esteem, andd for him to say “Some people didn’t like the Bolsheviks, just as some people don’t like the SWP. Some of them are even here tonight” seems more like a jokey welcome than a calculated rebuff. Sounds like the paranoias on Roy’s part, but, of course I wasn’t there and tone and context counts for a lot.

    I very much agree on the question of democratic centralism, but the argument about state capitalism is itself a return to the sectarian hey-day of IMG vs. SWP polemics. And that’s a flaw of Socialist Resistance, still trailing Fourth Internationalist baggage and dogma. I wouldn’t dream of saying this was religious sectarianism, and for Roy to imply that and finish by asking his remarks to taken in a comradely spirit is a sectarian joke.

    What’s happened in what used to be the USSR and its satellites just doesn’t undermine the theory of state capitalism at all, Roy fails to explain how and why that system collapsed and just comes across as nostalgic for the USSR. Is this what he really wants to argue about – as the major unity initiative of the left collapses, which I so clearly remember being told was ‘the only game in town’.

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  5. Well there should be no doubt that for the citizens of the former Soviet republics of the USSR, its collapse has been an unmitigated disaster. As I wrote recently.

    http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=933

    In all honesty I don’t think this is the moment to raise the debate with the SWP – they won’t be at theri most receptive.

    But the issue is not just of historical interest – as it has a bearing on the attitude towards Cuba and Venezuela today.

    It also has an impact on the SWP’s relationship with other forces on the left. Becasue if you mistakenly believe that the USSR’s bureaucracy are part of the capitalist class, then those political parties in the world who aligned themselves with the USSR are somehow tainted with a pro-capitalist trajectory.

    We shoud not accept a false polaristaion between the state cap and degenerated warlers states theories, as both are deficient, and there is some values in Cliff’s insights into the impact of armaments competition on the Comecon countries.

    nevertheless the theoretical gap in the state cap threory of being able to account for how profits are realised when labour power is not sold as a commodity are clear. And most remerkably the SWP and their co-thinkers have produced no convincing account of the colapse of the USSR’s economy, nor the continued existence of Cuba.

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  6. I was at the meeting too and Colin saved the day for the SWP. Chris Nineham standing in for John Rees had given quite a vague and frankly dull account of the Russian Revolution and Colin by contrast was witty, engaging and I thought brought home how democratic the soviets were with everyone bringing their problems and their pains and expecting that the workers themselves through their own council of delegates could help sort out those problems.

    He contrasted that to Solidarity in Poland giving an anecdote that in the early 80s when he visited Poland and talked to Solidarnosc leaders there they had said, “Everyone expects Solidarity to be able to solve all their problems, complaining about crime, about all sorts of social issues,” but then completely spoiled this by saying, “and of course we can’t.” So Colin’s point was that by having city wide and regional forums of working class delegates from unions, tenants’ associations, campaigns etc. that these could in times of acute social struggle become the means by which the working class liberates itself and begins to manage society.

    I thought his comment, “Some people didn’t like the Bolsheviks, just as some people don’t like the SWP. Some of them are even here tonight,” was quite funny really even though I half suspected he was looking at us in Permanent Revolution (as I told him the next day in the pub) but it really is a bit over the top to worry about such things me think- I just laughed it off.

    On state capitalism I didn’t notice Colin defend it but I’ll take Roy’s word for it. However, socialist and Jim D are far too quick to seem to assume that an alternative description means some kind of support for the degenerate and barbaric bureaucratic stranglehold that was Stalinism. Of course the gangster capitalism that has replaced it and the destruction of the last of the economic gains of the revolution has also brought great misery to the working class of the former Stalinist states (and their defeat by capitalism rather than the organised working class has given a boost to capitalism) but the choice isn’t between bureaucratic dictatorship where working class people are crushed and capitalist dictatorship where working class people are also crushed- rather the choice should be for human freedom by the working class running our own affairs in societies based on equality and complete liberty.

    However, the point I absolutely agree with Roy on is the need for open debates not only in the party but within and before the class. Lenin resigned from the central committee to argue for his point of view but not from the party.

    Any future organisations we form out of the ashes of the Respect debacle and indeed any future party of the working class should try to draw in as many people as possible to discuss how we can indeed sort out all the problems of life from the most burning, pressing an immediate needs to some of the more complex and seemingly intractable problems by a full open and democratic discussion in which the only centralism is the disciplined carrying out of agreed action- as in a strike in a trade union or a militant demonstration- but where every point and shade of view can be debated and in which we draw in new workers and new contacts into the discussion.

    Only through such processes will we find the answers we need and by dynamically developing answers become a focus of attraction rather than a seemingly arid and boring party clinging to the certainties of the past.

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  7. I agree with Andy. It would be better if the the discussion on state capitalism ended here. It’s a bit off the main track at the moment and will not generate much light. Perhaps someone can offer to organise a conference in London on November 17th for those who wish to go over that ground again, though venues are quickly getting scarce.

    Roy’s sections on the ideas of democratic centralism and the willingness of leading Bolshevks to disagree with the party in public are the real meat of this piece. In fact the notion of the monolithic Bolshevik party is largely a Stalinist creation and legacy and one that has been especially destructive in the Anglophone left. The LCR model of open public debates in Rouge is much closer to a healthy version of socialist democracy. In a modest way it’s what we have tried to do with SR.

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  8. “Don’t isolate yourselves from the rest of the left in the mistaken belief that isolation will allow you to get on with building the revolutionary party, free from the irritation of people disagreeing with you.”

    Well the purpose of the is clear enough.

    But it would also be quite possible to draw on other historical sources to write a parable for the benefit of Socialist Resitance, who derive from a tendency that’s suffered from the opposite syndrome.

    Namely dissolving their organisation into broad campaigns led by prominent lefty figures and losing members through lack of political identity.

    I sincerely hope that comrades Lister and Thornett manage to avoid the fate of the SWP, but I think it may depend on acquiring certain sycophantic skills towards leadership figures, which aren’t evident on their CV’s.

    Why do I keep thinking of a helicopter at this point?

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  9. Well, yes, the debate about democratic centralism is probably the most important part.

    However, I think it should go way beyond just conducting open debates ourselves though that clearly is part of it.

    Perhaps, using public forums around the pay campaigns, battles against privatisation, battles fro free education, against academies, against racism, for working class control of budgets and services is a way to go on this.

    Of course in the absence of major class battles success will be slower, stalling and piecemeal but all the more important to lay the foundations now to help ignite and organise the future struggles ahead.

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  10. But actually it is up to the SWP how they run themselves. The lack of internal democracy inside the SWP is more complicated than it seems, beacsue in the absence of formal structures there is still a lot of discussion and generally consensual politics. At the moment you are seeing it at its worst, and even organistaions that do have formal internal democracy can still behave badly.

    The issue to focus on is their mistaken belief that they are always right, and have nothing to learn from others. Not only state cap, but also dem cent are distractions from that real main issue.

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  11. But democracy and how we debate in the class is an issue that goes far beyond the SWP.

    If as Colin said in his speech we want to have a movement that draws in ordinary working class people into forums to solve the problems of everyday life, and I for one think he’s right, then it is clearly a much wder debate than how the SWP conduct themselves even if they are the largest current UK left group at the moment.

    Andy says “The issue to focus on is their mistaken belief that they are always right”- well perhaps we could all eat some himble pie on this, myself included.

    However, I think it is implicit in what Colin and indeed Roy are saying that we should follow a model of getting workers to gather together to discsus in the most democratic senses possible what we all do to take forward the struggle

    I can’t see how that could possibly be construed as saying that any one group comprising less than 0.01% of the population has all the answers.

    Granted that some members of the SWP and indeed other groups can behave like this- can’t we all? But Colin’s speech which this article is about seems to be a helathy sign of a completely different conception of socialism as a grassroots democratisation of society from top to bottom by the entracne of the organised working class into the arena of world histroy.

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  12. Andy, if any organisation claims, or even aspires, to be the vanguard party of the working class, then ‘how they run themselves’ is not a matter for itself alone. The revolutionary party belongs not to its members but to the class. The SWP’s interpretation of democratic centralism has had a material impact on Respect, and has contributed in no small part to the current crisis, therefore it is right and proper that we should discuss it. John Rees himself, in the article reproduced by Liam above, describes the process thus: “(we) work out through debate within our organisation what needs to be done and then (try) to win others to it.” This means, in the context of Respect, where the SWP can turn out enough members to get a majority in many branches and districts, that all tactical decisions are taken by the SWP and then presented as a fait accomplit to Respect. The SWP members vote as a bloc and that line gets passed. In many branches this has led to Respect not meeting at all for months on end because decisions have been taken by the SWP that such meetings aren’t necessary. New members of Respect very quickly get the message that if they want any influence within their Respect branch they must first join the SWP. This is exactly how things have worked in South Manchester (not in North Manchester, because most SWP members of that branch left the SWP some time ago over precisely this issue.) It is not difficult to see how this state of affairs annoys people.

    It is certainly true, as Rees explains, that the SWP has played a positive role in building campaigns such as ANL and StWC. But then the SWP method is bound to be less damaging in a single issue campaign (although there are many examples of how their approach has been very damaging indeed) than in a coalition/party that presents a full range of policies in elections. In Respect, their approach has proved devastating.

    But the central question is this – is the SWP method a valid interpretation of democratic centralism. I would argue that it is not, that in fact it is a formalistic and one sided interpretation ( and thanks to louisproyet for the link above, which I would recommend comrades to read.). Most of the decisions taken by Respect branches (how to build campaigns, where to stand candidates during elections, which candidates to stand, when and how often to meet, whether to produce a newspaper etc.) are tactical questions not burning issues of principal. There is no need for SWP members to have sorted out a line in advance to which they all vote as a bloc at the meeting. Non-SWP members may have experiences and ideas that could inform the debate, yet those experiences are discounted in advance by this process. A less rigid interpretation of DC, which offered SWP members the chance to think for themselves during Respect meetings, not just in advance of them, would not only improve relations between the SWP and others, it would also almost certainly result in Respect adopting more effective tactics.

    I will respect Liam’s wishes not to raise state capitalism on this blog at this time but we cannot put this debate off for ever. We can’t expect to understand how we got to where we are now (which is a pretty grim place on the whole) by pretending that most of the 20th Century never happened. I raised the issue here in the context of trying to understand how the SWP became the dominant far left organization in Britain, which is directly relevant to this debate. Their ability in the 70s and 80s to provide convincing answers to radicalizing students and workers regarding the paradox of Russia may be part of the reason for that. Whether those answers are right or not is another question (although I agree with Andy that it is an important one.)

    Finally badmat, it was wrong of me to imply that the SWP behave like a religious sect and for that I apologise unreservedly. But everything else was sincerely written in the spirit of comradely debate.

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  13. Roy, where we differ is this: ,i>”if any organisation claims, or even aspires, to be the vanguard party of the working class, then ‘how they run themselves’ is not a matter for itself alone.”

    From my point of view there is no point in arguing with someone who is delusional to the point of mental distress on their own terms.

    The analysis that you give of how the SWP behave matches exactly what I have argued myself.

    But it doesn’t mean that the SWP could not participate, it would just mean they would need to decouple the tactical issues from the strategic ones.

    The danger of arguing that it is the SWP’s attitude to dem cen that is the root casue is that it is a form of original sin, and the conclusion we would draw is to never work with them again,

    I am not prepared to go down that road.

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  14. I would never suggest that we never work with them again. I work with SWP members on a daily basis, in the Campaign against Climate Change and elsewhere, and will continue to do so. I have enormous respect for these SWP comrades as individual revolutionaries. I believe strongly that they and I should be in the same party, indeed that all revolutionaries should be. However, it is very much the SWP’s interpretation of democratic centralism that is an obstacle not only to allowing that to happen but even, in this period to building a broad, pluralistic party to the left of Labour. And it is precisely because I work so closely with members of the SWP, and because I intend to continue doing so whatever happens to Respect, that I feel obliged to share my concerns about this important question with them.

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