This report is first impressions. I’ll add to it tomorrow but, having broken my own rule of not taking notes at meetings, I have lost my notebook. Regular readers will know that there is one thing this site has avoided it is claiming that everything is dead brilliant when actually it was just ok. So if the tone of this account comes over as ultra positive it’s because there was much to be positive about. If you were there and want to add something please do by leaving a comment. A lot of people will be very interested.

The gulf of understanding was made plain for me pretty early in the morning. There was a group of six or seven SWP members selling their paper and handing out a leaflet calling for unity. One of them asked me if I had read it and what I thought of it. My reply was along the lines of “the reason all these people are in this hall is because we have all had a bellyful of the SWP treating Respect as their own private property. We all want the SWP to be part of it but they have to end their habit of assuming that they have the right to determine the outcome of every decision.” Apparently this comrade is a central committee member and what his response lacked in subtlety it made up for in honesty. “Having spent thirty years trying to build up an organisation it’s only natural that we want to wield an enormous influence.” He really didn’t get the point. Charity prevents me from describing Weyman Bennett’s contribution in the debate on behalf of the SWP’s leadership.

Here is John Rees putting the case slightly more effectively.

<Digimax S830 / Kenox S830> At times the event did not feel like a Respect conference at all. You were never quite sure who was going to say what next. No votes were taken but if they had been the result would have been genuinely unpredictable. The controlling, bureaucratic atmosphere was a distant and unpleasant memory.

If you want to find out what George Galloway had to say listen to the video. But there are a couple of themes to draw out. The first is that he seemed to be genuinely shocked by the manner in which Respect was being run into the ground. Like many MPs he thinks elections are important and so was appalled to find out that Respect had selected no candidates, had little money in the bank and had shed about half its membership. He expressed his commitment to building a party to the left of Labour and it was obvious that making an effective electoral challenge is important to him. As it should have been to the National Secretary.

The other point is that he is still up for a fight. The argument inside Respect seems to have revitalised him and he said in his closing remarks that he wants to speak at meetings all over the country that will recruit people to Respect.

Virtually all the harsh criticism of the SWP came from former members of the organisation. They described their growing discomfort with the dishonest and manipulative methods of the organisation and most of them felt that the current leadership’s course is destroying the SWP itself. You can see their point. There were more than three hundred people in that room. Almost every single one of them has worked closely with the SWP and is serious about building a class struggle party. They all decided that they can no longer bear the SWP’s ways of working. How is it possible to set out to build a broad organisation and end up alienated from the very people who are keenest on it?

Salma Yacoob spoke twice. She directly referred to the Venezuelan revolution as an example of how some societies are rejecting the neo-liberal model and explained how Respect in Birmingham is trying to build itself as the anti-communalist organisation. There might be a bit of a situationist strand in Birmingham Respect. On Saturdays she goes picking up litter in the city as part of a campaign to draw attention to the shoddy state of street cleaning in the city. More of that type of direct action will be welcome.

Cheers greet demise of Socialist Resistance

Socialist Resistance has decided to cease production of its monthly paper. (We’ll work out later what we’ll do for a public profile). The massive financial, technical and personnel resources will instead be redirected towards producing a monthly Respect paper. John Lister broke the tightly guarded secret to conference and was slightly bewildered to have his contribution interrupted by applause and cheering rather than the customary silence or heckling. The first issue will be ready for the climate change demonstration in December. The new publication will be radically different from the well designed but uninspiring, apolitical tabloids that Respect has traditionally produced. It will have analysis, discussion and give branches something to organise around. Socialist Resistance is so serious about this that we are willing to hand over what few resources we have to build a class struggle socialist organisation. You could say we have put the interests of the class in front of the interests of our own group. We made the decision a week ago at a meeting of supporters from around the country because we had to respond quickly and we want the new project to succeed. We will probably shift to a two monthly journal. We will discuss that in the next few weeks. We will continue producing books and pamphlets, organising local meetings, conferences and tours. So no change there then.

Consensus was strong about the political direction of the new organisation. It will need to have a much higher profile on environmental issues and Derek Wall from the Green Party raised the concept of ecosocialism. The RMT, the Communist left, the environmental activists, Labour supporters and activists are the people we will be opening discussions with. And there was modesty too. Nick Wrack and Ken Loach both made the point that Respect Renewal will be one part of a bigger, broader left party which will challenge Labour.

My assessment is that the omens are promising for the relaunched organisation’s future. Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester and parts of London sent along enough people to quickly establish viable, dynamic branches. A leadership and infrastructure are emerging quickly and there was a throng of people signing the sheets to volunteer as helpers at the end of the conference.<Digimax S830 / Kenox S830>

There will be a conference after the May elections to develop a programme. George Galloway told the audience that documents will be circulated and members will be able to submit their own documents which will be circulated nationally to allow a real discussion to take place. That’s new.

The conference was a big success. Salma Yacoob said that she had arrived with a heavy heart but was leaving with a light heart. She had reason to. We were present at the significant next step in the creation of Britain’s class struggle, anti-imperialist working class party.

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87 responses to “Respect Renewal conference; ra ra ra triumphalism justified for once”

  1. RIP: ‘Socialist Resistance’ and the ISG’s last, feeble grasp upon class politics; from now on, the ISG will be the foot-soldiers and “left”-face for a rotten, ultra-right, Islamist small-businessman’s popular front.

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  2. The Despair Squid Avatar
    The Despair Squid

    ‘We were present at the significant next step in the creation of Britain’s class struggle, anti-imperialist working class party.’
    But not a socialist party? Many of Respect Renewal’s ‘leading’ actvists are explicitly non-socialists. I seem to remember we had a class struggle, anti-imperialist working class party before, one which lured non-socialists into leading positions. It recently privatised the NHS and murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

    The anti-war, climate change, anti-neoliberal movements are movements against problems that have emerged during recent times. A socialist party could included these causes, but remain united for socialism for the long-haul.

    ‘Respect Renewal’ seems to be another small transient non-socialist group. Making the ‘S’ stand for socialism doesn’t make a group a socialist party, nor does claiming it is a class-struggle party. I remain unconvinced of Salma Yaqoob or Abjol Miah’s class-struggle desire, and they don’t consider themselves socialists so why should I?

    The socialist pessimism that says we can’t have a mass socialist party distresses me. Why do we have to unite with non-socialists for short-term transiet gain? There are very successful liberal and conservative parties. There is a ‘New Labour’ party successfully campaigning on liberal and conservative turf too. No mass socialist party exists, just a load of small socialist nvanguards and now your ‘Renewal’ party. Wasn’t ‘renewal’ Gordon Brown’s word for New New Labour’? You seem not to want to build a mass socialist party to represent and advance socialism and democracy.

    My suspicion is that you would love to, yet don’t believe you can. I think it’s time to try. The ‘Renewal’ party may be profitable for careerists and fun for hobbyists, but it’s not a mass socialist party, and seems more of an obstacle than step forward towards one.

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  3. Jim, please, what non-sense.

    When the videos go up on utube as i believe that they are plans for, people can watch them and see for them selfs what a pluralist outward looking event the Renewal day was..

    need to sleep now…

    peace

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  4. … and pro-socialist …. wait and hear what they said if u don’t believe me … day it was.

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  5. It may be possible to build a “class struggle, anti-imperialist working class party” that is Tory, Malthusian or anything else but for me the socialism is pretty explicitly contained in that form of words.
    This conference felt like a big shift to the left.

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  6. Good conference and there was a sense that we are on the up, and moving forward

    Bit I do have to mention the behaviour of members of my former organisation. The SWP CC had sent in some of their full timers to the conference. Obviously seen as the hardened cadre that could ‘do a job’

    This must be one of the most perculiar interventions they ‘ve ever had to carry out. The two speechs they made from the floor, one from Weyman Bennett and the other from Michael Bradley were rambling and incoherant.

    Their role appeared to be to hone in on former members of the SWP and attempt to save the sinners from their fate. But once Weyman had told me how things had really gone in room in North Manchester where I had been, while he was in London . I knew the poor lad was cracked. Unless he’s one of those characters from Heroes that can teleport himself in North Manchester Respect Branch meetings.

    Very odd behaviour.

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  7. The Despair Squid Avatar
    The Despair Squid

    Point taken about implication, though I don’t share your optimism for Renewal as a socialist party, since most of it’s leading lights don’t advote socialism, and neither does its name.

    ‘This conference felt like a big shift to the left.’
    And so it had to, or committed socialists (probably like yourself) would not have supported it. But the agenda of Renewal’s leaders is not a socialist one, nor is Renewal a democratically constructed socialist party.

    I despair. Why are we fighting over a camp backronym instead of junking the failed coalition project in favour of uniting all this island’s socialist vanguard parties into one mass socialist party?

    A mass socialist party that included SWP, SP, SLP, SR, CPs, independent socialists, socialist direct activists, etc…

    Not a ‘left of labour’ several issue coalition or party. A true mass socialist party the whole island has heard of and beats New Labour into the neo-liberal rump of careerists they really are.

    Why not a mass socialist party?

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  8. Anyone who believes that Salma is not a socialist should read or listen to her first speech at the conference. Her analysis of the links between racism, migration and globalisation of capital was sharp and accurate. However she describes herself, her evident internationalist and socialist analysis was in stark contrast to the inward-looking chauvinism of some who presume to describe themselves as “internationalists” and “socialists”.

    Meanwhile, the second SWP CC member to speak complained that SWP members had been excluded from the conference, and then proceeded to heckle those who pointed that his very presence belied his words.

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  9. The Despair Squid Avatar
    The Despair Squid

    So Salma’s a socialist but doesn’t realise it? I don’t buy that. That suggests she’s merely proficient enough to say socialist sounding things to socialist looking people, while never claiming or advocating socialism. A neat trick which I believe is called ‘dog-whistling’ in media circles.

    Don’t fall for it. Socialists want to promote socialism, so never shy away from using the word. It’s a good word; don’t be afraid of it.

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  10. Mark Serwotka at the Respect conference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzxtUoWhgHE

    He seems to think there was a witch-hunt.

    And Kumar Murshid with a thing or two to say about how things were run in TH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlOUDW1CScE

    ditto Lufta Begum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3lrn-ReqAw

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  11. I was surprised to read about the literature move. That happened here in Australia in the Socialist Alliance.

    The Alliance set up a commission to review the prospects for a SA newspaper and decided that the best way forward was to avail ourselves of the papers published already on the left by the two main affiliates, the ISO(the SWP’s franchise here) and the DSP.

    These were approached and the ISO passed on the option ( as a combination paper was being considered you see).But the paper the DSP published, Green Left Weekly agreed to the proposition and that was overwhelmingly endorsed — some 70%+ by conference — with the ISO and the other affilaites strongly opposing the iniatitive.

    Thereon a protocol was agreed to between the SA and GLW:
    http://www.socialist-alliance.org/resources/idb/Vol5No8.doc
    How GLW showcases the SA, 2 years on, is evident from any perusal of its pages:
    http://www.greenleft.org.au/search.php?go=1&topic_id=20&hide=1
    All the SA’s major broadsheets are published as GLW inserts which are produced in larger quantities than the paper’s print run for general distribution.This si a major cost saving given GLW’s deal with the publisher.

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  12. Mark’s remarks on the split are at about 17 minutes. He is simply wrong. There was no witch hunt.
    It is disappointing that he declined the invitation to the Renewal conference but it will still exist when the SWP one spends most of the year gathering dust on the shelf.

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  13. “Regular readers will know that there is one thing this site has avoided it is claiming that everything is dead brilliant when actually it was just ok.”

    Like the time you reported that ‘peace had broken out in Respect’ for instance? Yes, you’d never ham things up for effect, would you Liam 😉

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  14. He did more than simply ‘decline’ to speak – Mark actually boycotted the meeting. He spoke at 3 out of 4 conferences yesterday but refused point blank to speak at the one involved in recent attacks on socialists.

    Karen Reissmann refused to address Renewal too.

    Andrew Murray payed special tribute to John Rees and said he did not recognise the things being said about him.

    People in Galloway’s camp still aren’t quite getting it, are they?

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  15. “There were more than three hundred people in that room. Almost every single one of them has worked closely with the SWP and is serious about building a class struggle party.”

    You are just having a laugh now! Liam, you’re not the best spin doctor, are you?!

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  16. Extraordinary that there were four events in London on 17 November within a few miles of each other, which might be loosely defined embodied almost the whole of the non-anarchist far left in England and Wales. Between them these four events – Respect Renewal discussion, the SWP’s Respect conference, the Socialist Party’s weekend jamboree and the Labour Representation Committee (LRC) conference attracted between 1,000 and 1,500.

    Does this reflect a healthy pluralism or an ever greater degree of disorientation and disunity on the British left? I may post something more detailed later regarding the LRC event, which had 250-300, disproportionately white, with an older age profile, though with a fair smattering of people under 30. It was often a desultory affair, but speeches by victimised UNISON activists, Karen Reissmann and Michael Gavan, injected something of living struggles in the unions.

    Liam’s original posting mentioned an attendance of some 300 (the listed seating capacity of the Institute). I wondered what the composition was of participants in terms of labour movement involvement, gender and ethnicity. On the face of it, aside from Linda Smith, the platform seemed to reflect very little recent experience at the base in the unions.

    For whatever reason PCS General Secretary, Mark Serwotka, chose to accept the SWP’s invitation, not Respect Renewal’s, and seemed to accept much of the SWP’s account of the split – not to imply I necessarily agree, by the way. He also appeared at yesterday’s LRC event so on the ‘hard left’ of the union bureaucracy was also absent.

    Aside from Andrew Murray, chair of Stop the War, any idea who was there from the CP(B)?

    Finally, when are we going to see the newly accountable parliamentarian, George Galloway? If his recent, presumably well recompensed musings on Kylie Minogue’s body shape, in the “Daily Record” are any indication it was not last week.

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  17. What is the significance of LCR speaking at Respect rather than RR conference, taken alongside demise of ISG/SR paper, was this implicit criticism of the the 4th international franchise position in the split?

    Will RR make a legal challenge for Respect name?

    Was some form of RR membership structure launched? If so for what membership fee?

    Was some kind of steering committee elected?

    Will a GLA slate be stood in May and if so what will platform be if the conference is after May.

    Did Abjol Mia refute central question of use of pocket membership? Was this issue addressed, did he condem attacks on OR?

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  18. Victor,

    The LCR sent two leaders, Francois Duval and Penny Duggan, and thus spoke at both events, as you may have read elsewhere on this blog. Francois spoke at the SWP’s event, and them came over to the Renewal conference which Penny addressed.

    The ISG’s publication, Socialist Outlook, will continue to be produced, After the Respect paper is bedded in, I imagine that Resistance wil become a magazine.

    The people around Respect renewal don’t need to challenge for the Respect name: we are still in Respect.

    Duncan.

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  19. Duncan

    thanks for the information on LCR.

    Whilst I am more than happy for branches to stay united, you will apreciate that at present there is some confusion over having apparently two rival structures. A new national committee was elected at the Respect conference, Respect students will shortly be fighting to elect a Respect candidate into a full time NUS position, there will be a by election in Preston shortly, the GLA material with selected candidates is already out.

    If the RR conference did not resolve the name/structure questions then all that has come out of the RR conference is a GG tour and a monthly newspaper. What will GG be asking people to join?

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  20. ‘What will GG be asking people to join?’
    His fan club, obviously.

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  21. It is a pity that Karen Reissmann was not able to speak at the Respect Renewal conference. I’m sure she did not “boycott” it. What on earth would be the justification for doing that? She’s a sacked trade unionist whose striking workmates will naturally seek support from everywhere in the movement. It simply can’t be that she or the strikers decided to boycott the opportunity to address hundreds of activists from which many solidarity events could be organised.

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  22. Socialist: in fact I believe he is asking his fan club, among others, to join Respect!

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  23. “I’m sure she did not “boycott” it. What on earth would be the justification for doing that?”

    What would be the point of boycotting a rally purposely set up to rival her own organisation’s conference by people hostile to the SWP (which she is also in) ? Why would she boycott a rally where people got up and said they would rather vote for Boris Johnson than Lindsey German?

    Are you being serious? My god, the renewal faction are more blinkered and/or arrogant than I thought.

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  24. It was not possible for the RR conference to resolve issues of structure progamme and priorities in any systematic way. The conference was called at about 3 weeks’ notice and could not properly be constituted with delegates etc. And there were tactical reasons for having a different structure (in part, we could not rely on the existing branch (SWP) structure to get our political message across about the split. This was more important than formal considerations.

    The existing NC members in RR are meeting and leading it up until a conference can be convened.

    The name is a complicated issue and requires discussion with the other side. My (slightly facetious) suggestion: Socialism, Peace, Environment, Community, Trade unionism, Respect, Equality.

    There were membership cards and direct debit forms. Membership is £10/5 and the Bank a/c is Respect Renewal Conference, a/c no 60601051, NatWest, Temple Bar Branch, PO Box 10720, 217 Strand, LondonWC2 1AL, sort code 60-80-08. So you can now all go and arrange standing orders.

    On the LCR in France: as I understand it, the SWP has a tendency in the LCR, and has done for years. Not something that would be tolerated the other way round.

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  25. “Cheers greet demise of Socialist Resistance”

    I’ve gotten used to your finely tuned sense of irony lately Liam. That’s how I take the above sub-heading anyway.

    Was this something decided in advance by the membership, or was it the result of a meeting in the “Prancing Pony” between Ger and Monsieur Ennui?

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  26. On the Boris Johnson / Lindsey German comment. That was one individual, who another blog claims is an ex-member of the SWP. I didn’t get the impression that the conference supported her view, or her other unfortunate comment about two other SWP members. I don’t know her reasons for saying these things, but all of us do and say things in public that we later regret and which we hopefully learn from. Last week, I walked out of my Respect branch meeting after a particularly sectarian attack on the supporters of RR by a member of the SWP leadership. Walking out was a mistake, one driven by emotion, rather than reason. I wonder if she regrets comparing our methods to the “politics of patronage of Pakistani villages”?

    In many ways, the RR conference was quite a highly charged event, I think especially for the ex-SWP members (and, judging by their behaviour, the current SWP members too). We are not automatons and probably need to understand that fact better.

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  27. What reception did SWP central committee member Weyman Bennet get? And what did he say? How much time was he allowed to develop his critique of the splitters? How many other members of Respect (the genuine Respect) were allowed to participate from the floor? On Lenin’s Tomb, there is an excellent video of Mark Serwotka’s speech at Respect’s conference. He explained why he had accepted invitations to speak at three of the four left-of-Labour events, the sole exception being the Galloway rally. Was there any reference to Mark Serwotka’s dismissal of this split, by Galloway, Smith or anyone else? If not, then when can we expect Respect Renewal members to reply to Mark’s devastating critique of this split? Liam’s hopes for this new group are entirely misplaced. Galloway and the Tower Hamlets businessmen will either expell the ISG members, or else provoke them into a split. I am absolutely certain about this. The ISG’s international cothinkers are likely to demand a reappraisal very shortly. I cannot believe that they will long tollerate their British section throwing in their lot with anti-abortion campaigners and homophobes. I cannot believe that they will long turn a blind eye to those who think Kylie’s arse should be oggled, but ear-plugs should be applied while doing this: beautiful women should, apparently, be seen not heard, and their talents derided, and their struggle with breast cancer entirely ignored. Will a group that claims to stand in the traditions of the Fourth International not bother that their British section canvasses for those who argue in their interviews with Peter Manson that trade unions should be supported because “we need all the trade we can get!”.

    It must be obvious everyone that the SWP-dominated Respect and CWI-dominated CNWP/NSSN are on the verge of negotiating with John McDonnell’s supporters and leading trade unionists like Mark Serwotka. Sooner or later Liam is going to come knocking on the door of this new left-wing group. I would suggest he doesn’t alienate himself from as important a component of this new group as the SWP.

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  28. I forgot to ask in my last post if there is any chance of Weyman Bennet’s contribution being posted, alongside the platform speakers like Galloway? Given the alleged support of “pluralism”, surely we can expect the two sides of the argument to be heard. Or is that just me being naive?

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  29. Two questions,

    1/what plans were made to turn to the non Respect Left, [non LP] in an attempt to build a new Left Party or does Respect [GG] now claim like the SWP, to be that Party?

    2/ You mentioned a paper, is this simply a SR project or is there going to be a broad based editorial board and if so who voted it into office. [or is this just a work in progress]

    Genuine questions.

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  30. Tom, as far as my memory serves Weyman was received politely. I did take notes of what he said but they are in the notebook I lost.
    He said something along the lines of that the SWP has demonstrated that it can work with all sorts of people and that the real Respect conference was the other one. He made no concrete proposals about how the two sections could reunite nor did he directly address any of the criticisms of the SWP’s way of working that have been raised in public and in private over several months.
    A question he could usefully have answered is why 300 people with close experience of working with the SWP have decided to carry on without them.
    As for GG you will see by searching for him on this site that our criticisms of him are more extensive, older and public than anything the SWP has said about him. But on some issues at the minute we agree with him.
    As for the LGBT and women’s rights issues we were slammed as Islamophobes for raising them two years ago at conference. That year as well Respect’s presence at Pride consisted of 5 members of SR handing out leaflets. I was one of them. Our politics haven’t changed and we will take no lectures on that score from anyone.
    You will see when the videos go up that they were recorded on a cheap recorder with a one hour memory. I didn’t record Weyman or anyone else apart from the two you’ll see.

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  31. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    ‘renewal’
    ‘we will take no lectures’

    Any more Broonite quotes, Liam?

    I’m beginning to wonder whether some of the ‘Renewal’ sycophants ever left the Labour Party, although I sometimes wonder the same about some of the SWP stooges too.

    The (repeatedly unaddressed) fact remains that independent socialists who believe in building one mass democratic socialist party within which all smaller socialist parties operate (ordinary disengaged socialists like me – we are many) are unable to join that party.

    A sincere couple of questions now:
    How many ‘socialist’ parties are there in Britain?
    What do we estimate each of their membership figures to be?

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  32. Dr. “always so polite” (see below) Ray Wall has his own take on both Respect events on his blog.

    What a surreal day. The bit which was most surreal was vigorously clapping a speech by Tower Hamlets Councillor Rania Khan attacking me. It is polite to clap, even when one is being slated. Councillor Khan, who apologised to me to her credit, condemned Respect renewal for having ‘Derek Wall from the Green Party’ on the platform, she didn’t realise that I was to speak on the same platform as her about 20 minutes later. Very funny.

    and

    I don’t think either RESPECT is going to fly, although I would like to see Greens work with socialists, the socialists outside the Green Party are painfully divided, Socialist Party and Labour Representation Committee from the Labour Left had conferences as well today. At least I and other speakers at both conferences were able to flag up important work that all radicals could get involved with…solidarity with Venezuela, ‘building’ support for the climate change march on December 8th and the February 9th Trade Union Conference on climate change.

    Gave me two bites of the cherry to talk about all the things I talk about on this blog, gay and lesbian rights (‘I think we call them human rights’), radical green politics, the need for commons, green bits in Marx, liberal Islam.

    Difficult to judge and not for me to do, both conferences a couple of hundred, the RR seemed much more upbeat but clearly not just the SWP are in the other one. I don’t think that two RESPECTs will flourish but party politics for radicals in England is a tough game. Even in Scotland with the divisions between the Socialist Party and Solidarity and Green losses, politics looks a lot fresher, more radical and green.

    http://another-green-world.blogspot.com/2007/11/two-respect-conference-hear-dr-wall.html

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  33. what programme do the isg suggest respect renewal adopts?

    will the renewal programme clearly be for the defence and extension of abortion rights, oppose homophobia and all discrimination against gay and lesbian people (in other countries as well as here), oppose the extension of faith schools, support seperation of church and state?

    what about workers’ reps on a workers’ wage? will the isg raise this issue?

    what about opposition to the theocratic dictatorship in iran and support for workers’ struggle in that country?

    finally, what about socialism? will renewal be a socialist party, fighting for an end to capitalism and imperialism and standing for the construction of a democratic socialist society?

    will galloway and the small-businessmen careerist cllr wing ever support a programme like this?

    lastly, who will control the editorial line of this new respect renewal paper?

    best wishes,

    ks

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  34. Is there a video of Dr. Ray Wall’s speech anywhere? And John Lister’s speech would also be most interesting.

    Am I the only person to find it a bit strange that the ISG published a pamphlet (under the tagline “A Socialist Resistance Pamphlet”) with a form asking people to “join SR”, around 48 hours before the publication/group announced, to cheers (perhaps they confused “Socialist Resistance” with “Socialist Worker?), that it was closing it self down?

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  35. Liam,

    is there any chance that Respect or Respect Renewal will make their conferences and videos more accessible?

    there are plenty of partially sighted or blind socialists throughout Britain and Europe who would like to follow the debates, but for that to happen the comrades producing the videos need to supplement them with a separate audio track (MP3)

    most blind, or partially sighted people, prefer listening to audio directly rather than fiddling around a PC

    the organisers of these conferences should simply extract the audio channel from the video, tidy it up and post as a separate MP3

    it is very easy and it costs NOTHING but a little time and consideration from the comrades producing video.

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  36. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    A good idea.

    Where possible it would be good to publish speeches in a trinity: video, audio, and text transcript.

    I say text because many internet users either don’t want or can’t access ‘multimedia’ internet content. Many of us just want to read. Text is also handy for searching.

    I myself often catch up on developments on public library computers, and public library headphones seem rarely to work. It’s great when people find the time to type out transcripts, although I appreciate this is sometimes a boring work task.

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  37. agreed Disrespect Squid,

    I have long argued for all three

    but the reality is if people are too lazy to produce an audio track, then they are hardly going to transcribe an event, are they ?

    the production of MP3s when you’ve already got the video only takes a few clicks of a mouse button, little effort and even that isn’t being done

    Liam’s lot are better by far as they nowadays post MP3s with their videos, but other groups have no excuse for not doing it, other than thoughtlessness

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  38. I managed to rip an audio track from one of these videos once before. I can’t work out how to do it again. If someone can tell me what to do I’ll oblige.

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  39. Liam,

    As requested, enjoy!

    Audio can be extracted from a FLV file (the video format used on Youtube, etc) by downloading to a PC, then executing FLVextract which will remove the audio channel, in about 30-60 seconds, finally if you have an audio track is particularly noisy or has extraneous sounds then run Audacity. Using Audacity, trim the start and end bits, if necessary and apply a filter to tidy up the sound.

    Useful links:

    FLVextract http://www.moitah.net/

    Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

    Orbit (see Grab++ for downloading YouTube) http://www.orbitdownloader.com/index.htm

    All of the software is FREE, so there’s no excuse for not using it.

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  40. The sound quality is terrible – standards slipping now that Ady Cousins isn’t in charge of the techie stuff. 😀

    And the hall is decorated terribly… what’s the deal with the peace flags arranged in that odd way??

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  41. As someone who has been detached from Respect for a fair while I have been curious to follow this almighty bitter left divorce. Relationships have gone into meltdown and it is no surprise that there is now a serious semi-permanent split in the socialist left. What’s going on in this political relationship crisis? IMHO it’s the whole issue of control, and the problems with the SWP’s need to dominate that control. It was only a matter of time before their organisational methods came into vehement conflict with George Galloway’s own emotional need to get his own way. Kaboom!

    I think that Socialist Resistance are absolutely right to stay with Galloway, Salma Yaqoob and the many independents who have called time on the SWP’s abject failure to sustain a coherent and politically intelligent organisational leadership to Respect. I have a lot of respect for Salma Yaqoob and I believe she is someone who can be trusted to work in politically ethical ways. I get the feeling that she has a strong personal integrity and a commitment to working inclusively. Whenever I have seen her on Question Time she has consistently delivered engaging and informed political opinion – never anti-socialist!

    It’s really quite insulting to have the homophobia charge being thrown in against the RR side – like Liam said, it has been Socialist Resistance supporters who have consistently championed LGBT issues in Respect and internationally.

    I didn’t hear what Galloway said about Kylie’s arse, but frankly I probably don’t give a toss about that if he was just appreciating her freely-consenting-to-confidently-being-a-woman-happy-in-her-sexuality. She’s way out of my league lol but I am one of her army of lesbian admirers. Sorry if I offend any personal or political sensitivities out there…but am I being sexist if I think Kylie’s hot???

    I have never been George’s number one fan, and I was hopping mad at the Big Brother fiasco, but since his erotic (arghh!!!) cat-play with Rula Lenska he’s shown he can be a very public plonker and still come back. Yes he has his problems, and Socialist Resistance have always challenged his political contradictions and dodgy positions. But he does also have a principled and consistently passionate profile as an anti-war and broadly socialist politician.

    That’s it…it’s Sunday and I gotta get the roast finished…

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  42. Good Lord – Galloway’s speech is a 35 minute rant against the SWP, incredibly personalistic in character. The kind of thing appropriate to a, what do you call it, that’s it, a witch hunt. Lord knows there’s no outside objective reasons for the current problems it’s all the eeeevvvvilll SWP, especially that Rees fellow. He truly must be Satan.

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  43. I always thought that George Galloway (ok, ignoring the Big Brother and Saddam Hussein incidents) was fairly professional when it came to his public image and use of the media. Until I watched that speech. Any normal person who might want to compare that speech (if that’s not a contradiction in terms) to what e.g. Lindsey German or Mark Serwotka said at the Respect conference won’t take too kindly to whatever Galloway’s organisation will be called based on the contents of this video. Regardless of any facts involved, you can’t deny that GG is doing his best to come across as a ranting demagogue, while Lindsey German does a good job of presenting herself as being perfectly reasonable.

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  44. Canadien, I’ve posted the video of John Rees. You’ll shave noticed the pattern of how we like to get as much info in the public domain as possible.

    Very early on in Respect’s life I went election canvassing with John in one of Stepney’s less plush council estates. I have found him a consistently impressive speaker, thinker and writer. There is a lot of truth in this contribution. There are gaps too. Here’s one. Just after GG had confirmed that he wanted to be a candidate in Bethnal Green there was a branch committee meeting of Tower Hamlets Respect. It was in Kambiz’s surgery. I made my standard intervention of “that’s great. We should put in place the sort of report back system that a good Labour Party constiuency would have for its MP. He should do it each month in person but there will be times when we will have to accept a written report. ” John replied “George is incredibly busy. We’ll find an appropriate way of doing this.” And it was allowed to rest there. John was instrumental in letting GG think he could freelance.

    On this score SR supporters have been tediously consistent. Tedium is what we do well.

    BUT why has no one from the SWP given a persuasive account of Respect’s declining membership, awful financial situation or explained why all these people who have worked so closely with the comrades for 4-6 years feel they can no longer continue to do so?

    Have we all become red-baiting,social democrat, opportunist, electoralist, homophobes? There may be another reason why several very well respected former SWP members, militants of no political affiliation and some people with a better than average record of revolutionary activity have jumped the other way.

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  45. I feel a bit sorry for RR after watching Abjol Miah and GG.. I think they know in their hearts that’s it’s all over for them but they are clinging on and pretending to be jolly and upbeat.

    ‘There’s been no split’ said Miah – who is he trying to kid? They have lost the members, the website, the students, the activists, the footsoldiers, the left-wing councillors – everything but a few high profile names and an office minus the staff.

    (The videos themselves are completely amateurish too.)

    And I certainly did not turn up to Respect’s annual delegate conference with a ‘heavy heart’ as Salma did turning up to her rally.

    Poor RR 😦

    Like

  46. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    Liam.

    I don’t know you, but despite your complicity with some of the SWP-bashing that’s been going on (and continues), I believe you to be an active socialist who wants a mass party for socialists. Therefore my criticism is made as a comrade.

    John Rees and the SWP’s Respect contingent did act without much integrity by supporting GG’s ways and behaviour for two or three years, then (after that letter) publicly criticising him on things they’d denied and defended him about.

    However, this lack of integrity does not make their current claims untrue, or unfair. And it does not justify the SWP bashing that continues. It does not reduce the degree to which the SWP, as Britain’s largest socialist party, is a vital component of our future.

    Members of their CC have done wrong, and should go, but that’s for the SWP members to demand, not you or I.

    Weakening the SWP weakens radical socialism. Their leadership have made fools of themselves, and they’ve lost fine comrades, but this provides its own punishment.

    The task now, which I know I’ve stated already but I think remains unaddressed, is to formulate some way by which a mass socialist party can be organised – satisfying the democratic demands of all Britain’s socialists. Socialists of SP/SWP/SLP/SSP/SSSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Socialist of no party.

    There are more socialists in GB than the membership figures of all the island’s socialist parties put together. I’m one of them, and I get a little mad that there is still no single mass democratically-organised socialist party I can join. I bought the Respect project once. I hope to be less naive next time. One single mass socialist party. A party for every socialist. A party we can all have our little arguments within, not without.

    And you know yourself that the Renewal Party, whatever its strengths, is not that.

    It might be lucrative for careerists, and fun for hobbyists, but that’s not where the need lies. The need is for a mass socialist party all socialists are members of.

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  47. No votes were taken but if they had been the result would have been genuinely unpredictable.

    What a wonderful showcase for democracy your “conference” would’ve been if you’d allowed any democracy. By the way, does Alan Thornett think he’s now going to get a broad socialist party, with Galloway at the head on a workers’ wage?

    Actually, I suppose a vote would’ve been unpredictable. I mean, a fair chunk of the audience would’ve supported Boris Johnson over Lindsey German for mayor…

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  48. Imagine being in a party where the results of votes would be ‘genuinely unpredicatable’. Where you weren’t sure if the majority of opinions would lean to the left or to the right..

    What a pickle RR have found themselves in.. they don’t seem to know if they’re coming or going.

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  49. Disrepect squid:

    “Socialists of SP/SWP/SLP/SSP/SSSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Socialist of no party.”

    Well surely there would have to be two parties at least in that alphabet soup? As a question of principle the Scots would want their own party.

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  50. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    I’m quite sure mockery of my writing style is not worthy of your time or intellect, Andy.

    As for the assumed fact that English and Scottish socialists cannot share a party, I’m not so sure. We are (meant to be?) fighting neoliberal parties that operate successfully in England, Scotland and Wales. Yours is an assumption I’m not sure should be made so quickly, and I wouldn’t feel so confident in speaking for a nation.

    I tend to think that the boundaries of a ‘party’ most easily correspond to those of the ‘sovereign’ parliament/president/monarch/whatever. The SWP, for example, operates in Scotland too. They were involved in the whole SSP/Solidarity furoré.

    If we must have a seperate English party, then I suppose the Welsh are seperate too? Or is their nationhood not equivalent to the Scots? Does this whole question not seem slightly reactionary?

    And if we must have seperate Scottish, Welsh, and English socialist parties (hardly my decision or fault), then shouldn’t we start getting socialists from all the ‘alphabet soup’ and outside it in a room for that purpose?

    It’s surely a better use of your time than taking apart my comments on someone’s web log.

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  51. No mockery intended. The alphabet soup is how i myself refer to the plethora of parties and groups.

    As an English republican, I personally do feel English socialist parties should not be organising in Wales, yes. But that is partly a question for the Welsh, and yes Welsh national consciousness is differently developed than Scottish national consciousness.

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  52. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    ‘The alphabet soup is how i myself refer to the plethora of parties and groups.’
    Fair enough, and it is a suitable monika for the ridiculous circumstances in which we find ourselves.

    Whether GB needs three ‘National’ mass socialist parties, working in harmony against the ‘British’ conservative and neoliberal system and parties, or instead one ‘General’ mass socialist party, with sections for each of the three nations, working in harmony against the same, seems like one of the less difficult problems to solve.

    The biggie is surely how to organise the entire socialist alphabet soup (as it shall furthermore be known), and completely disillusioned and thoroughly pissed-off socialist without a party (me again) living under the British capitalist regime, into a party (or three such parties in harmony) capable of advancing and promoting socialism on every possible front.

    I’m an Englishman too, but more significantly I (like the Scots and Welsh) am a subject of Queen Elizabeth and subject to the neoliberal consensus of the Westminster legislature and executive.

    That’s why I want a mass socialist party (or three such parties in harmony). Nationality and independence seem like sideshows. The big show is the removal of Queen Betty and the New Tory coalition in the other palace.

    Either option will require harmonious co-operation across both borders. One party or three, I don’t care. Just make it a great big all-inclusive socialist party. Or three. As long as there’s not a bowl of soup in all three nations, I’m happy.

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  53. Well – the relative silence of the hecklers just reniforces what those of us who were part of organising yesterday’s conference feel: we’ve made a big step forward and there’s lots of work to do. Comrades in the SWP need to stand back and think. It might many months but it’s worth getting in a place where that can happen.

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  54. Was your heart and mind ever really in the SWP Kevin or was something else going on?

    Your ‘transformation’ is really something to behold!

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  55. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    Ah, the enigma Kevin Ovenden’s back on here (if that is indeed your name). Good. Despite my faltering trust for your employer (the MP, not the taxpayer), you might play an important part in solving this unholy mess.

    ‘Well – the relative silence of the hecklers just reniforces what those of us who were part of organising yesterday’s conference feel’
    Have you won then? I was under the impression Brown and Cameron were the main beneficiaries of the Respect Coalition’s split/demise/failure/mockery.

    ‘we’ve made a big step forward and there’s lots of work to do.’
    What is the big step forward though? You staged a rally for GG’s following (many of whom are explicitly and enthusiastically not socialists) and a subset of the Respect socialists who either loathe or simply don’t trust the SWP’s CC and organisational techniques. Nobody was delegated or elected, no party was formed (to my knowledge), but you appear to have started initiation of yet another leader-led British party with some socialists in it that does not include the overwhelming majority of Britain’s socialists. I blame nobody for leaving the Respect ‘Coalition’, I have too, but the need is for a socialist party that includes all socialists. We don’t need another capitialist party of careerists, hobbyists, liberals, and businessmen. There exists already a perfectly successful one of those, called ‘New Labour’. The ‘Renewal Party’, or whatever it ends up being called has one flaw that for me overrides everything else. It is not a socialist party, and includes a tiny fraction of Britain’s socialists.

    ‘Comrades in the SWP need to stand back and think.’
    I disagree. Comrades in the SWP, fine activists that they generally are, need to establish a more dynamic, honest, co-operative, and successful leadership committee. If their internal democracy prevents this, then overthrow it, or junk the whole thing. I’ll defend the SWP here, but their CC has really messed up with the Respect project.

    ‘It might many months but it’s worth getting in a place where that can happen.’
    For the vast majority of Britain’s socialists, that ain’t the ‘Renewal Party’. It’s not the ‘Respect Coalition’ either.

    Kevin, (if indeed…), another question I’d rather didn’t overshadow what I hope are the worthwhile discussion points above.

    Are you aware that before the split your leader and employer proposed that Respect stand only three parliamentary candidates in what was claimed to be an imminent general election?

    The three proposed were:
    G.Galloway in Poplar
    A.Miah in Bethnal Green
    S.Yaqoob

    That gem from a Respect activist in the Half Moon Wetherspoons pub I believe you know well on Mile End Road.

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  56. A peculiar feature of this discussion is how people like Andy, Kevin, Canadien,Modernity, Phil, Karl Marxstrasse have easily identifiable names, political identities and e mail addresses and a lot of people, mostly on the pro SWP side, prefer to keep us in the dark about who they are.

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  57. Isn’t Canadien one of the pro-SWP writers?

    Do keep up!

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  58. I am who I am: and, I reapeat: Thornett and the ISG are a bunch of washed-up has-beens (actually, never-wazzes), who, in a last desperate bid to salvage *something from a lifetime of wasted opportunities, have finally sunk so low as to step in to replace the SWPas the “left” cover foe the ultra-right Galloway… my gawd..how low can you sink? And how stupid can ex-Trotskyists be?
    Thornett: you were fucked over once by Gerry Healy; have you learned nothing?

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  59. Christ! Jim’s right! It’s all so clear now! I’ve been persuaded by his subtle arguments. Thanks for taking off the blinkers.

    DCM – some contributors like Jim and Canadien are on the other side of the fence and don’t pretend to be anything else. That’s fine. They are very clear about who they are. It’s just that there’s a group of people who are the blogoshere’s equivalent of “concerned resident” in the local newspaper’s letter page and you have no way of knowing if they are a partisan or a punter.

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  60. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    Jim,
    Is any of that necessary. Non socialists must think all socialists hate each other. I don’t know much about Thornett or the ISG, so don’t understand any of that.

    My points regarding a mass socialist party (or three) remain unaddressed. I was certain when I wrote them that they were more interesting than socialists slagging each other off.

    Liam,
    Which side am I on? Much to my annoyance, I have no party. That’s the problem in this country and debate. There’s not a mass socialist party including all socialists and organised democratically that socialists like me can join. As above, this remains unaddressed. Triumphalism should perhaps be saved for the first successes of the mass socialist party I keep bainging on about. As for anonymity, I’m a Bristolian Socialist called Tony, ex-Labour, ex-Respect. I don’t have a job, home, or party, and I’m sure you’ll not have heard of me. I’m not interesting; people on the internet rarely are. What is interesting to me, and I hope to you, remains unaddressed.

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  61. In this matter I’ve been accused of being “a pro-SWP propagandist”…. and I do also have to wonder if Thornett has learned nothing during his many years in “Trotskyist politics”.

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  62. JIm: Thornett: you were fucked over once by Gerry Healy; have you learned nothing?

    Is that a quote from back when Alan got into bed with Sean Matgamna?

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  63. Liam et al ,

    My question is tongue in cheek: is Socialist Resistance ‘liquidating’ into Respect Renewal?

    You say the public face is an open question. So is there a written statement that summarizes your present perspectives? While I guess it’s a bit early as so much is still in motion & ‘up in the air’… But you must have a viewpoint that can be shared.

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  64. The Disrespect Squid it wasn’t directed at you but there are some people pretending to be what they are not.
    Dave we will most likely be opening a perspectives discussion later this week. The documents will be available in due course.

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  65. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    It might, or it might suggest what a shallow and duplicitous bunch you’ve married. Maybe one day you’ll regret leaving your old wife for your new.

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  66. Hey, I’ve been following the debate on this and a few other blogs, liam’s and lenins tomb. I would like to share a few thoughts. I have lived outside the Uk for a couple of years now, but was involved in struggles in the Uk from the late seventies up to prob the early nineties in a direct way, and the last years active in organising against the attack on Iraq. One of my best mates is in the SWP and has been for years and on his facebook has a link to ‘lyndsey for mayor’ so i assume he’s remaining loyal to his organisation during this. Anyway- a lot of people are talking about a ‘broad co-alition of ’socialists’ or ‘the left’ and the debate is around how when where this can be built.

    In my view, the only thing that matters is that anyone who is in the least bit conscious organises around those fights that are actually taking place, whether it is in the NHs (Karen Reissman among others) or the Communication or railworkers, or in real day to day activity against racism and fascism. It is through those struggles (and agaisnt the prepared attack on Iran) that new forces will develop who will be seeking a means and an understanding of how society can be changed. If you are not in an organisation, think through the lessons and the arguements they present and join one, applying your experience and understanding to actual struggles as you go through them.

    The desire for unity is commendable, but comes through action, not interminal debates of what does or doesn’t represent a class struggle ‘programme’.

    That Galloway is an opportunist and demogogue should suprise no-one and of course he should be worked with wherever and when ever he is on the side of those fighting injustice (same with anybody from whatever previous background), but to attempt to create an organisation around him and other ‘unaligned activists’ will be doomed to long term failure as it will shatter on the rocks of the crises thrown up by the very struggles capitalism engenders, political debates erupt because of the class struggle and the need to determine the best way to respond over which there will be differences. Without a shared anyalsis history or understanding this is bound to happen.

    I never supported the REspect project, so maybe all sides here can dismiss me. But to those who did, is it only in the past few weeks these problems have arisen? was Galloway an honest anti-imperialist class struggle fighter untill two weeks ago? were the SWP leadership honest and open about thier intentions within respect untill two weeks ago?

    I know debates have been taking place, over organisation, paper, profile etc, but the real test are still to come, for both the SWP and renewel, it will be interesting to see whta happens. But my confidence in the class that produced me is it will be its struggles that will determine the future opportunity to change society, not this debate (important thought it is)

    last point- there is some really childish stuff going on, and those (I assume SWPers) east is red, DMc etc (if they are SWP, because what they are saying is so infantile they do real SWP members a disservice) are doing themselves or the debate no good.

    cya

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  67. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    Join what though? There’s no socialist party that indepependent socialists like me can join – that’s the whole point!

    The only socialist parties available are small, highly disciplined, and exercise ‘democratic centralism’, which might be great for disciplined advanced revolutionary vanguards, but excludes the like of me (and we are many) who want an open democratic mass socialist party., and want it to include all socialists and masses of workers.

    People on here spend too much time in their own circles. Out in the rough of the world I find most socialists and left-leaning ordinaries like me agree on only one thing – that since the Labour party was stolen from us – there is no party any more. We either laugh or despair at the scarce news from rival Respect camps. Most of us give up on political activity.

    It’s easy to tell others to join something, or do something, or start something, or whatever. And in many ways, ‘Karen Reissman’ is lucky – since she is included and defended by others in solidarity. Working class and under-class people (waving) are abused and victimised all the time and it doesn’t usually make Socialist Worker or Social Resistance, or anything happen.

    People in your advanced circles need to remember what a tiny minority they are in. My view is of no interest to anyone on here – they seem not to want a mass socialist party for everyone. But that would be the vehicle for the majority to join your tiny minority in political activism. As things stand, the SWP, the SP, the SLP, (insert acronymns ad infinitum) and the Galloway Gang mean absolutely nothing to most of the population. Most of the population are excluded. And people write on here about ‘triumphalism’. Well done.

    For ages I really hoped people writing on here wanted a mass party to advance socialism. No interest has been shown in such though. The only interest is for point scoring and triumphalism between two silly little sectarian cliques who mean absolutely nothing to anyone but themselves. I suggest the revolution is some months away yet.

    Are we done? We’re done.

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  68. “Did Abjol Mia refute central question of use of pocket membership? Was this issue addressed, did he condem attacks on OR?”

    Question is why has SWP gone out of their way in trying to stop Abjol and others in the communiy in trying to recruit more Respect membership?
    The last 2 years there has been a decline in 2000 membership, was that a deliberate attempt to keep power so that new people from the community dont join and start want to control their own destiny? There is all sorts of slanders like “pocket membership” being only as an excuse to keep out the community because over the past few years the Tower Hamlets memership had grown to level where SWP were outnumbered and realised they couldnt use democracy to control and masses!

    the worst thing is when the SWP supporters did the same thing in recruiting large numbers so that they can help SWP take control no body ever complains. The recent Berners Hall meeting clearly illustrated this when large numbers of SWP supporters where brought in (as new respect members) and at the door people found that membership lists did not match up. the very reason the whole meeting went into chaos. there is hypocracy in the air and it starts with SWP control freak leaders!

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  69. The ‘revolution’ may be decades away may be not, but before decaeds are gone we will witness more wars(mass slaughter of working people) more cirses economic and political, and constant social and trade union struggles. Wanting a mass party won’t make it happen. When I said join something, it means you have to co-operate with others, the fact that the acrynoms can go ad infinitum, means you have plenty to choose from. Or join the LP and argue within, that it should focus on the struggles of those you identify with.

    Its easy to dismiss either groups or people as ‘silly’, why not engage with them and see what they have to say? There are plenty of single issue campaigns out there, arund opposition to racism, ecological destruction etc, but the concentration should be on engaging in struggle, through wich the possibilities and debates will emerge.

    I don’t consider myself part of an elite of anything, just discussing the options.

    good luck

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  70. Attacks on Oli?

    Forgot to add if anyone reads the East London Advertiser and the East End Life you will find Abjol and all the leaders of the political parties condemned the attack on Cllr. Oli.

    In fact its also well known that Oli has been getting threatening and abusive calls for 6/7 months before the split and Abjol and Cllr. Mamun have been advising him to deal with his situation with the police. Cllr. Mamun went on S Channel TV to explain this too. These threats and calls from what I know are related to some personal problems he has been going through for a while now.

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  71. Non-partisan, for the 3rd time (!) here was my response to you over at the Tomb:

    “Actually, I save the ‘infantile’ stuff for a certain other website, where the level of hysteria and blind hatred towards the SWP is so overwhelming that no rational debate can possibly take place anyway, and where it is clear that, despite the name of the site, left unity is not actually a very serious priority for those who run it.

    (We even had the gem ‘Mark Serwotka is not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer’ from them yesterday.)

    And no, I’m not in the SWP, which I have made clear on a few occasions.”

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  72. The Disrespect Squid is totally right and there is no point joining them. We are the majority. We don’t need their rules speeches or strange debating procedures. There is no point in engaging any of them on their terms. Let them speak their strange language to each other. People who think either Galloway or Rees are going to lead them anywhere worth going should wake up.

    Listen to their speeches and read their writings throughout this split. Both have demonstrated that they are idiots. Surely you’ve realised by now?

    How do sensible people think that uniting behind them, or pretending to will change anything?

    When was the last time either debating rooms featured humans who would actually involve themselves in positive revolution? Both rees and Galloway would be the first to cack themselves.

    The Disrespect Squid is right. Stop thinking tiny party start thinking humanity.

    If I say Please?

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  73. I think Galloway’s oratorial style resembles Hitler’s

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  74. “Tedium is what we do well.”

    Oh Liam.

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  75. “I think Galloway’s oratorial style resembles Hitler’s”

    You win at the internets.

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  76. Just a simple question – I know those of us organising the campaign to reject the deal in the post were invited to send a speaker to the RR conference, but I couldn’t make it. Did anyone come, I’ve not seen any mention of it. For that matter, does anyone know if anyone spoke on the issue at the Respect conference? There’s no mention of it in the report at Harry’s place, even in the report of Jane Loftus’ speech.

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  77. Pete,

    I asked you and dave Warren and tried to find someone else, and I know that Nick rack tried as well, but we couldn’t find anyone at the short notice.

    There was no speaker at Resepct renewal, but of course there is active support in any way we can help.

    Jane Loftus’s speech is here:

    Rather pointedly she DOES NOT call for a NO vote, and she doesn’t ask Respect to help campaign for a no vote

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  78. TonyC,

    please could you ask your friends and comrades in Respect Renewal to produce an audio version of the recent Respect Renewal conference, as they’ve done with the video?

    audio is easier to use, for blind and partially sighted people, and less hassle

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  79. Exhaustion and time constraints have kind of hampered our co-ordination of that stuff.

    I won’t promise on the time-scale, but I’m gonna try my hardest to have the new website up and running with all the content by the end of the week. Once we’ve got all the video together, I’ll do my best to get an audio extraction done.

    In the meantime, anyone else who can do it is welcome to – just send me copies please! Pretty much all the conference is available in different forms all over the web.

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  80. TonyC,

    thanks – I have explained above (see my comment of November 18th, 2007 at 5:10 pm) how to extract the audio from a FLV file, etc, that should help.

    it would be handy on every site that EACH time people post a video that they include a pointer to a separate MP3 file, it is a fairly quick process and not too much trouble.

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  81. The Disrespect Squid Avatar
    The Disrespect Squid

    non partisan, on November 19th, 2007 at 1:52 pm Said:
    ‘Or join the LP and argue within, that it should focus on the struggles of those you identify with.’

    You also mentioned single-issue campaigning, which while not without merit, is not what I believe to be the way forward for socialists. I believe socialists need one mass socialist party to take on the ruling classes and parties, and which they can share with every other socialist group or vanguard party.

    But your alternative suggestion to (re)join the ‘Labour’ (sic) party, I am baffled.

    I left the Labour Party not because of New Labour policy, though that would have been principled and honest of me, but because the Labour Party is not a democratic organisation through which branch members can advance socialism, or anything else for that matter. I’m sure you know this, np, of course.

    That’s the choice facing ordinary socialists.

    Option A: The Parliamentary Route
    An entirely non-socialist New Labour party which alienated socialists by abondoning socialism (e.g. IS/SWP), expelled socialists for behaving as elected socialists should (e.g. Militant), alienated socialists by even ‘abolishing’ socialism (e.g. SLP), and finally disenfranchised socialists from any internal democratic organisation (e.g. ordinary socialists like me). I’ve given up on sharing a party with liberals and capitalists. It didn’t permit socialist advancement in the Labour Party, and it won’t in the Renewal Party. Conservatives have the ‘Conservative and Unionist Party’. Liberals have the ‘Liberal Democrats’. Neoliberals have ‘New Labour’. Socialists should have a socialist party by now.

    Option B:
    Picking one of the many revolutionary socialist vanguard parties that operate a system of ‘democratic centralism’ possibly well suited to maintaining strict revolutionary party discipline, but effectively forcing ordinary and uninfluential socialists to surrender to a doctrine over which they have no effective democratic influence. I’ve seen the way such parties go about recruitment, and those aggressive techniques may appeal to lonely and fragile misfits, but they just don’t work on intellectual self-emancipated roughs like me. This option also means abandoning hope of sharing a democratic mass socialist party with every other socialist walking these streets, as there are (and probably should be) a multitude of small, dicsiplined vanguard parties. I’m not against them, and I defend them on here all the time, but I can’t make the intellectual surrender neceesary to join one, and I want them all to exist within a single mass socialist party, as I’m sure I’ve made clear.

    dave bones, on November 19th, 2007 at 4:50 pm Said:
    ‘When was the last time either debating rooms featured humans who would actually involve themselves in positive revolution? Both rees and Galloway would be the first to cack themselves.’
    Sadly very true. I enjoyed Marxism 2007 greatly, and I learned a great deal. Unfortunately one of the things I learned is that wealthy academics, writers, and politicians will never tire of lecturing the working classes about what is right for them, and about what they should do. But watching their proud speeches, while they will have sold a few more books and paid such ‘names’ more money, that taught me that if the revolution ever comes it will be the likes of me, and not them, who will have to endanger our lives and get our hands dirty (or bloody).

    But since so few people writing here believe in or want to form the sort of democratic mass socialist party we desire, and since options A and B do not provide the democratic avenues for ordinary socialists to form such an organisation, we are left without a party.

    Ordinary socialists, and I don’t mean the advanced minority happy with their organisations and currently attending meetings, I’m talking about those grafting on the building sites, sleeping in squats and under fire escapes. These ordinary socialists, in my experience, don’t really care (often even know) whether someone is SWP, SP, SLP, LP, SSP, SSSM, GP, PFJ, Muslim, important, a good blog writer, or anything. We see all workers as workers, and all socialists as socialists. Even within the membership of the various socialist parties most people I’ve met talk fondly of the Poplar Rebel Councillors (LP), Liverpool Councillors (Militant/SP), striking minors (NUM/SLP), etc. etc. We see them all as socialists, as comrades, and as traditions upon which to base a new mass socialist party, fighting on marches, direct activism, every ballot paper, labour and trade unions, etc.

    We’d all argue over details, of course. The two main Trotskyist parties will argue over the exact critical definitions to describe Stalin’s Russia. But socialism is a powerful set of principles, and ordinary socialists are more interested in socialism and justice that acedmic historical arguments. United under the red flag of a democratic mass socialist party, we’d argue, but we’d be unstoppable.

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  82. […] Erneuerung gesprochen, selbst SkeptikerInnen zeigen einen vorsichtigen Optimismus und andere stellen gar ihre Zeitung zugunsten der Gesamtpartei ein. Lediglich die üblichen NörglerInnen und MiesmacherInnen machen noch schlechte Stimmung und […]

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  83. The Disreputable Octopus Avatar
    The Disreputable Octopus

    Google’s Babelfish made little of that:

    ‘Renewal spoken, even SkeptikerInnen show a careful optimism and different one adjust their newspaper in favor of the total party. Only the usual NoerglerInnen and bad making gutters make still bad tendency and’

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  84. “bad making gutters make still bad tendency”

    Tee hee – Oh goodness that made me laugh out loud – it’s about time something did!!!

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  85. babelfish can’t catch irony or sarcasm … 🙂 … NörglerInnen und MiesmacherInnen = detractors, complainers, etc.

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