This article by Alan Thornett sets out Socialist Resistance’s view on Ken Livingstone.

  • He is not supportable
  • Opposition to the wars cannot be made the sole criterion of political support
  • Livingstone is now wholeheartedly the New Labour candidate
  • If there is a credible left wing candidate put up against Livingstone we should vote for that candidate and cast a second vote for Livingstone.

ian_ken_04apr07_emp_300 The whole of the left should condemn the hysterical Thatcherite campaign against Ken Livingstone led by the evening standard and Channel 4. It is the war against the GLC all over again. As Seumas Milne said in the Guardian recently: “Just as in the time of the GLC, Livingstone is denounced for consorting with dangerous leftists and terrorist apologists”. The Channel 4 Dispatches programme was an hour of character assassination against Livingstone designed to obscure the politics of Tory right-wing buffoon and racist bigot Boris Johnson ­ which are difficult to sell to a multi-cultural London where a third of the population are from ethic minorities. The hour-long programme poured out streams of empty allegations designed to promote the election campaign of Johnson.

The irony, however, is that whilst the attack on Livingstone reflects the days of the GLC, that is not the case with Livingstone himself. “Red Ken” is of no more than historical significance. Little of his politics today reflect his politics of those days. This is particularly the case when it comes to areas of administration over which he has direct control as Mayor of London.

Where issues are outside his domain, however, where words rather than action are involved, he is often a lot more radical.

It is precisely over his actions, however, which he must be mainly judged. And there is the problem. His actions today regarding RMT picket lines, the privatisation of services, the City of London or the Metropolitan police are completely unacceptable. Such actions would have horrified the Livingstone of the GLA years. It is for these reasons that he is not supportable today as he would have been then.

This is the background to the current discussion as to whether the left should support Ken Livingstone for a third term in May. The discussion is made more acute by the success of the witch hunt against him which has allowed Boris Johnson to emerge as a serious contender. And the replacement of Livingstone by Johnson would be a setback for London and a boost for the Tories in their preparation for the general elections where similar methods will be used against new Labour.

In order to discuss this question sensibly, however, we have to sort out the distinct aspects of it ­ especially differentiating the question of the vote from that of giving him political credibility and support. The first of these aspects is a tactical question, the second is not.

Fortunately the ballot for Mayor is by transferable vote, which makes this rather easy. With a transferable vote system the voter is able to cast first and second choice votes. The first can therefore be a political choice (the person you would most like to see elected) and the second can be used to stop the person you least want in the run-off between to two leading contenders.  And since Livingstone is sure to be in the top two such an approach is fully applicable to this particular election. In fact giving Livingstone your first preference vote rather than your second would make no difference at all to the figures, you would still only be giving Livingstone one vote.

For example in the 2004 mayoral election Respect stood Lindsey German and called on its supporters to cast a second vote for Livingstone, and many of them did. The same should apply this time. If there is a credible left wing candidate put up against Livingstone we should vote for that candidate and cast a second vote for Livingstone. This would allow us to vote for a clear anti-neoliberal and pro-class struggle voice whilst supporting Livingstone against Johnson. We (as Socialist Resistance) would argue for this approach inside Respect Renewal and represent a minority view on it if unsuccessful.

So what is Livingstone’s political record over the past eight years?

The first thing to remember is that Livingstone rejoined new Labour and made his peace with Tony Blair, which weakened the left and strengthened new Labour. Since Brown took over he has been largely silent about him saying that he prefers to make his points in private rather than criticise him in public. Brown must be very happy indeed with that situation. In fact Livingstone is now wholeheartedly the New Labour candidate for Mayor of London. They regard their initial reluctance to have been a false alarm.

It’s true that Livingstone has opposed the war in Iraq and very consistently. He called on Londoners to attend the great February 2003 anti-war demonstration and he rejected calls that demonstrations should be banned when Bush visited London. But opposition to America’s war in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot, as some argue, be made the sole criterion of political support, otherwise it would lead to some very strange results.

There were (and are) many Liberal Democrats against the war. Douglas Hurd, foreign secretary under Margaret Thatcher, opposed the war, as did one of her chancellors Ken Clarke. The Chirac government in France opposed the war and its foreign minister (later Prime Minister) Dominique de Villepin made one of the most eloquent UN speeches against it. Vladimir Putin  was against the war and still is. The same position, more or less, was taken by the Chinese regime in Beijing. The Iranian regime of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ­ a regime guilty of countless anti-democratic crimes – is also a virulent critic of Bush and the war. In fact the opposition to the war has been widespread amongst a range of politicians and even included one of the two senators who got egg on their face attempting to grill George Galloway in a Congress subcommittee.

Of course no one is comparing Ken Livingstone to any of these figures, but it does demonstrate that the war cannot be the single or even the predominant criterion of judging political support. There has to be a wider judgement made on the basis of an all-round assessment of his policies and actions.

Livingstone has certainly done other things which we can support. His administration has worked on many progressive anti-racist initiatives. Livingstone  warmly welcomed Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez to London, doing an “oil for expertise” deal with him. He has defended multi-culturalism extremely vigorously, he has welcomed migrants and defended asylum seekers. He defends Muslims against Islamophobia. Some of his actions on the environment have also been important. The Livingstone team did a lot to ensure the financing and success of the London European Social Forum in 2004. And of course there is his opposition to the war and fierce attacks on George Bush.

Against these positives, however, there are some completely unacceptable negatives. In particular Livingstone has systematically championed the police including over the Jean-Charles de Menezes shooting, where he has uncritically defended Met Commissioner Ian Blair. It is very difficult to argue that he has impeccable anti-racist credentials (as some do) when he supports the police over what was in the end a racist killing. He has acted vigorously on the wrong and reactionary idea that solving crime depends on recruiting a lot more police officers, something
that has bumped up the “precept” (the proportion of the Council tax that is paid to the police).

He has collaborated with privatisation on the Tube and he and his staff in TfL have been responsible for one of the most expensive transport systems in the world. He and his staff have closely collaborated with property developers and Livingstone personally, along with his economics advisor John Ross, have become apostles and advocates of  finance capital. It is not surprising therefore that he failed to support the firefighters’ pay demands. Livingstone was at the centre of the campaign to bring the Olympics to Britain, a decision that will markedly bump up London council tax ­ mainly to the advantage of big business.. But it is not obvious that there are massive benefits for the poor and local workers generally.

Ideologically and politically, therefore, with the exception of the war, racism and Venezuela, there has been a complete collapse since the days of “Red Ken”.

Ken Livingstone’s role at the centre of London transport of course means he is in the position of an employer, so how has he dealt with the unions?

Appallingly badly, in fact. In June 2004 he attacked the RMT for striking over pay, he called the miserly offer “extremely generous” and said if he was an RMT member he would cross the picket line and break the strike. Even someone as non-militant as Dave Prentis, Unison general secretary, called these remarks “shameful”. In 2003, when tube driver Chris Barrett was spied on while off sick and sacked for allegedly feigning his illness. Livingstone said “I don’t know he got away with it for so long”, but did not apologise when Barrett won his case at an industrial tribunal. In 2007, speaking at the annual London Government Dinner at Mansion House, Livingstone told his distinguished audience that he had not the slightest intention of giving in to the RMT.

Ken Livingstone and the police

Ken Livingstone has systematically defended the police over the shooting of Jean-Charles de Menezes, arguing that they acted the way they thought appropriate at the time. When on November 2 2007 a court found the Met guilty of “corporate failings” over the shooting he immediately went on Radio 4 to denounce the findings as “disastrous” and say that it could make the fight against terrorism more difficult.

Let’s remember exactly what happened to de Menezes. He was not challenged before being shot.  He was shot seven times in the head, each bullet fired at three second intervals. The shooting was a part of the “shoot to kill” policy of the Met at the time and it happened to de Menezes because of his swarthy appearance ­ i.e. his “profiling” by the squad concerned. Any socialist or indeed anyone who defends basic human rights should expect the police not to shoot anyone without a very good reason for doing so, and to find the police at least guilty of negligence if they do. But not Ken Livingstone. He insisted that “The police acted to do what they believed necessary to protect the lives of the public. This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for which the terrorists bear responsibility.”  Moreover he said, “At the end of the day, mistakes are always going to happen in wars or situations like this. The best you can do is try and make the potential for risk the minimum possible but there will be mistakes”. This is nothing more or less than a cover-up for the shoot to kill policy.

Livingstone vigorously opposed all calls for Ian Blair to resign as Met Commissioner, arguing that such demands  were mainly those of the right-wing media led by the Daily Mail. It was true, of course, that the Mail and other right-wing papers called for Blair to resign. But it was also absolutely clear from the stand point of the defence of basic human rights and anti-racist policing that he indeed should resign. This was rightly the position of the whole of left, as well as of liberal opinion. It was also the position of the de Menezes family campaign itself ­ which spoke to great acclaim at the founding conference of Respect Renewal last November. It is absolutely astounding that anyone claiming the remotest degree of left credentials could take any other position. It is bizarre to ignore such an issue is assessing what support Livingstone should receive.

Nor is it just the de Menezes shooting which was involved. At the time of the police raid in Forest Gate in June 2006, when a young Muslim man was shot and wounded by the police on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence, Livingstone also defended the police.

As part of his wider defence of Ian Blair Livingstone argued that there had been a reduction in the crime figure and that this was due to increased police numbers. He said in 2007 “One of my priorities on becoming mayor in 2000 was therefore to work with the government to increase police numbers again, in order to bear down on the rise in crime”.

No one other than an anarchist, would argue for the immediate abolition of the police. But it has never been the position of socialists that the answer to crime is more police. Crime, especially among young people, is closely associated with poverty and the massive ­ growing ­ inequality. Policing is not just about crime it’s about social control, and the class bias of the police is obvious. The most costly form of crime, the one that costs the public most by far, is corporate, white collar crime, especially tax evasion on a mammoth scale by the super-rich. Yet hardly any resources are devoted to it by the police, as compared with the policing of poor areas. All this is elementary from a socialist viewpoint, but outside the ambit of Livingstone’s approach.

The truth is that on the police Ken Livingstone has fallen straight into the discourse of the reactionary right, especially after having visited former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani and having been impressed by his “zero tolerance” policing. Livingstone says, “Twenty-five years ago I was generally critical, but now I see a much transformed [police] force”. So it’s not Ken Livingstone but the police who have changed! If you believe that, you’ll believe just about anything.

Ken Livingstone and Transport

London has the second most expensive transport system of any city in the world, outdone only by Moscow where the system is in the hands of gangsters. It is 26% more expensive than New York, where incomes seem roughly the same as in London because of the decline of the dollar, but where real purchasing power is significantly higher and prices generally much lower.

Can the high price of transport in London be justified from a socialist point of view? It’s true that free transport has been extended from school children to 16 and 17-year old students and this is a pro-working class reform. It’s also true that over-60s go free and that Oyster cards users (more regular users) pay less than the nominal rate. But it’s still very expensive ­ a typical commuter in Zone 3, 4 or 5 coming into London would still pay £35 a week in fares. And this is very different from the days of “Fares Fair” when Livingstone in the 1980s as leader of the GLC massively reduced Tube prices.

It can be argued that Livingstone has not had any option but to work in this way and squeeze the public through high prices. Private contractors have to be paid. The capital interest payments to financial institutions are more than £100m. So if the buses were to be improved, the money had to come from somewhere. But all that says is that if you work within the system, then you obey the rules of the system and you end up managing it, despite some marginal reforms. The idea that there is no alternative within the system is an argument that could be applied at national level as well; once this is accepted all socialist aspiration is lost.

In praise of finance capital

Ken Livingstone has been more and more open about his position of full support to finance capital, the driving force of neoliberal globalisation. The key to London is its success as a financial centre, he argues. In 2006 he warmly praised Margaret Thatcher’s 1986 decision to deregulate the City of London which had become “a lazy, old boys’ network”, enabling it to become “dynamic and world class” (and incidentally increasingly owned by Americans, which puts in question his claim that “London has overtaken New York” as a financial centre). In his April 2007 interview with Prospect magazine (with Tony Travers, Simon Parker and David Goodhart) Livingstone says that “I used to believe in a centralised state economy, but now I accept that there’s no rival to the market in terms of production and distribution”.

The theory that Livingstone and his financial advisor of 19 years John Ross have worked out is evidently this: making London a top centre of finance capital is the key to generating wealth in the city as a whole, and on the basis of this we can create employment and devise progressive and environment-friendly policies . This sounds a lot like the “trickle down” theory of wealth generation beloved of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

Many of its assumptions will be sorely tested in the next period as the devastating financial crisis leads to thousands of sackings in the City, but it also has to be asked who exactly does benefit from the City being a key focus of world finance. Clearly the main beneficiaries are the City traders and fund managers themselves, the owners of luxury and service industries and of course property developers.

In 2000 the Livingstone team’s enthusiasm for property developers astounded Green leader Darren Johnson. He told the Guardian about Livingstone: “I was surprised at how aggressively pro-developer he was. His economic adviser John Ross did a presentation talking about a coalition between the Greens and big business interests and the need to keep both on side. I thought it was a joke. Then I realised he was serious.”

It is less evident how many workers benefit directly from London’s role as a finance centre. For many millions the City’s influence has been crucial in pushing house prices through the roof, tying down a huge part of their income. But in any case, the role of de-regulated finance and globalisation, turning everything into a commodity and trying to turn every service into a financial asset, is not about being “dynamic” at the expense of “old boys’ networks”, it’s about pumping as much surplus income as possible out of the pockets of workers and the poor worldwide.

The role of the City and deregulated capitalism is part of the whole rotten operation worldwide that has also massively increased inequality within Britain ­ and also drastically worsened the working conditions of millions. Even if you thought it was beneficial economically for a giant financial centre to be in London, it would surely be normal for a socialist to point out the nature of the beast. In his Prospect interview Livingstone  does criticise multi-million pound City bonuses but ­ when prompted ­ only gives his assent to the most minimal of reforms, something like a tax of a tenth of one per cent on international trading, enough he thinks to “cure world poverty”. And after all, whatever you think personally, when it come to keeping City traders and property developers onside, you just don’t go about criticising them and demanding they be taxed to the hilt.

In his Prospect interview Livingstone says: “There isn’t a great ideological conflict any more. The business community, for example, has been almost depoliticised. One of the first people to lobby me when I became mayor was Judith Mayhew, from the City Corporation. She came and said, “We’ve all changed, it won’t be like the last time, there’s so much we can do together.” I didn’t believe a word of it, but it turned out to be true.”

So there you have it: work with the most progressive forces in capitalism in  a framework where business has been depoliticised! This is the world through a self-delusion of huge proportions. The idea that business has become depoliticised is as inane as thinking that City financiers represent “progressive forces in capitalism”. Livingstone has changed on capitalism, just as he has changed on the police. Capitalism has also changed ­ mainly for the worse.

Who will benefit from the Olympics?

Who really knows the final cost of the London Olympics?  Probably no one, but it’s obvious there won’t be much change from £20bn. This will come from London and nation-wide taxpayers, but Londoners will pay twice ­ once through Council Tax and once through income tax. Who will benefit?­ Mainly big business. While some British businesses will benefit, others won’t. Studies since 1980 have shown that the net benefits to tourism are minimal, as visits fall off in the couple of years before the events as people just postpone their visit to Olympic year. In reality the games are a massive marketing opportunity for transnational corporations like Nike, Omega, McDonalds and other major corporations. But it is not obvious that there are massive benefits for the poor and local workers generally.

According to a publication of Demos:

“The indirect impacts of processes of gentrification and price inflation can be severe. In Barcelona, for instance, the 1992 Games was partly responsible for massive increases in costs of living in the city. Between 1986 and 1992 the market price of housing grew by an average of 260% and this expansion continued through the 1990s with significant increases in social inequality. Likewise, in Sydney, rates of evictions and homelessness increased markedly in the neighbourhoods alongside the Olympic development. The consequence is that although development takes place in such cities it does not always lead to the development of its poorer urban neighbourhoods and communities. In fact, it can make things worse by creating blight, congestion and […] displacement.”

But isn’t there a plan in place to regenerate Hackney Wick and Stratford, two areas that certainly need it? In fact the Olympics British organisers are incredibly modest in their projection for regeneration which, with a few add-ons, comes down to:

  • Over 4,000 new homes will be built for the Olympic Village; these will be converted post-Games to form newly created neighbourhoods with new local schools, community and health facilities, as well as appropriate utilities, roads, and transport infrastructure. Significant amounts of additional housing will also be developed on and around the Games site as a result of the positive impact of this investment in social and physical infrastructure.
  • The parklands will restore and enhance the recreational and ecological role of this important river valley. It will become part of London’s famed network of green spaces ­ connecting the 26km of the Lea Valley Regional Park in the north to the canal networks and river corridors that connect with the River Thames in the south.

That doesn’t sound like very good value for £20bn or even £10bn. East London certainly needs redevelopment ­ so redevelop it! That does not need the Olympics. The truth is the Olympics is a giant business machine that gets governments to sucker local people into paying their overhead costs. Socialists shouldn’t support the Olympics coming to Britain or anywhere else. It’s a pity Ken Livingstone did.

 

Alan Thornett

28.1.08

 

77 responses to “Socialists and Ken Livingstone”

  1. Jeremy Stangroom Avatar
    Jeremy Stangroom

    “The shooting was a part of the “shoot to kill” policy of the Met at the time and it happened to de Menezes because of his swarthy appearance”

    It’s amazing really that more swarthy people weren’t killed…

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  2. If they’d got the ”right” bloke it would still have been a shoot-to-kill policy, and I hope civil libertarians would still have condemned it. Screwing up and killing de Menezes gave us a bit more of an open goal.

    Good article, anyway. Not so much “hold your nose and vote Labour” as “hold your nose, give Labour your second preference and thank God for SV”.

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  3. Liam, that’s a reasonable enought article -did Alan not have it ready in time for the Respect newspaper?

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  4. …it would have been some counter-balance to Galloways piss-poor effort.

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  5. Tendence Grouchy Avatar
    Tendence Grouchy

    An excellent post, which I agree with entirely, and which provides an important counter-balance to the (otherwise very good) Socilaist Unity website’s uncritical support for Livingstone. However, I would now like to know whether you think there is a credible left candidate. The main argument here, presumably, is going to be about Lindsey German.

    I am not a member of Respect or the SWP (I was in the SWP many years ago like so many others). I was completely opposed to the way in which the SWP split Respect. They were not only wrong but they behaved dishonestly. I can quite understand how anyone involved in all that would not want to vote for Lindsey German. However, as I was not involved I have no personal feelings in the matter, which understandably those involved do have.

    I consider that Lindsey German has an excellent record as a Socialist campaigner. She is clearly utterly opposed to neoliberalism. She has been able to obtain a credible level of electoral support where she has stood in the past. As things stand at present – unless anyone can persuade me otherwise – I intend to give my first preference to her. Although elsewhere I have stated that I will not vote for Livingstone this time, I have been persuaded that it is an unpleasant necessity – therefore I will give him my second preference. This will show my opposition to Livingstone’s support for New Labour while helping to prevent Johnson from winning.

    So, what is wrong with that as a stgrategy, apart from the fact that Lindsey German is a leading member of the SWP, and therefore intimately involved in the split? For me that is not a good enough reason to vote directly for Livingstone, and I believe it would undermine Respect Renewal if it were to sow illusions in Livingstone.

    I rest my case and await the inevitable abuse.

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  6. So, what is wrong with that as a stgrategy, apart from the fact that Lindsey German is a leading member of the SWP, and therefore intimately involved in the split?

    Nothing at all, in the unlikely event that you’re asking me. I find myself in the odd position of wishing Lindsey German and any project she’s involved in absolutely no success at all, on general principles, but being very strongly in favour of voting for her in this election (if I had a vote) and encouraging other socialists to do so. Prominent member of a sectarian wrecking-squad though she be, she’s a good socialist and a good candidate, and I hope she gets a decent first-preference vote.

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  7. Martin, another (non SR) comrade was planning to write an article opposing support for KL but real life got in the way. He lacks our legendary discipline.

    Alan’s piece wouldn’t sit well in a “mass” paper. It’s aimed at a slightly different audience and is much too long.

    Tendance Grouchy, you are right on every count and I’m getting increasingly cheesed off with the more “polemical” comments which is why I’ve deleted several of them today and will toughen up the editorial policy.

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  8. Perhaps the article can be reproduced in digest form in next months paper – it was a good read.

    Here’s a very short poem I have written.

    It’s called “Sadly, Not GLAdly”:

    He once was
    Red Ken

    Now it’s
    lesser-evil Livingstone

    To stop
    Blue Boris

    use your
    2nd vote

    to (sadly)
    re-elect Ken

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  9. good article. it is good to openly and democratically debate issues within RR, and the future of the organisation rests on internal tolerance and ability to work together in a non-sectarian manner in order to build a mass anti-capitalist party in Britain.

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  10. Liam justifies the absence of this article from Respect Renewal’s paper on the basis of length, and it’s not being written for a mass readership. Fair enough. However, that is no justification for the paper refusing to even acknowledge a plurality of attitudes within the editorial board or the grass roots of Respect Renewal towards giving Livingstone a first preference vote. Could no one have summarised the case in time for publication? Also, how about Respect Renewal finding other avenues to allow the ISG to make their case? What about George Galloway’s favourite blogger, Andy Newman? His SUN blog is one of the most popular blogs on the left, which he never gets tired of reminding us, and he has published far lengthier pieces. And by a variety of forces outwith Respect Renewal. He shares moderation these days with members of the Green Party and New Labour. So, can he not be persuaded to publish this article, and give all Respect Renewal members, and others, an opportunity to have their say? It is not good enough for the ISG to come up with the occasional well-argued position if you then bury them because they are an embarrasement to the rest of Respect Renewal.

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  11. I’m afraid this whole ‘vote Red Ken’ as first preference’ business has exposed a serious problem with RR. It’ seems increasingly clear to me that the SWP snipe about being Galloway’s latest vehicle has more than a grain of truth to it. Galloway is, in the final analysis, a Left Labourite and the danger for socialists in RR is that they are pulled along into supporting unacceptable positions . There’s no real democratic accountability in RR – you tend to hear what the line is from Galloway’s columns in the Morning Star etc. and are then expected to subsequently rubber-stamp it. I say this not as a mudslinging Swoppie but someone who supports the CNWP, which I think is a better bet to produce a worthwhile and credible socialist organisation..

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  12. There’s no real democratic accountability in RR

    RR is a very young initiative; formally it’s not even an organisation in its own right as yet. Give it time.

    you tend to hear what the line is from Galloway’s columns in the Morning Star etc. and are then expected to subsequently rubber-stamp it.

    This critique would carry more weight if it corresponded to what anyone’s actually doing. The SR comrades are actually arguing against the Galloway line; Andy’s arguing in favour, but he was arguing that way before Galloway was.

    I think the CNWP’s a great idea, and I look forward to it merging with a renewed RESPECT to form something bigger, better and more lasting than either of them. I realise I may be looking forward for some time.

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  13. Typical mealy-mouthed stuff from Big Al. Does he favour a vote for Lindsey German or not?

    Presumably he does. Why hasn’t he got the ba**s to say so?

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  14. I know SR are arguing against the Galloway line – I’m saying that they’re pissing in the wind going against Galloway, who has a powerful and unhealthy dominance over RR.

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  15. Dave,

    OK you win: LG 1, KL 2, does that make anyone a bigger man (woman) ?

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  16. I think the article makes some pertinent points.
    One thing that Alan omits to mention is the crucial role that Livingstone played in backing Tony Blair on the day of the London Bombings when he deliberately failed to mention a link between British foreign policy and what had happened (in contrast with the 80s when he was prepared to take such a stand immediately after IRA attacks). Of course, when it would have no political impact, days later Ken did mention imperialism.

    While it is good to see a section of RR taking a principled line, I note that the only article that appears on RRs website is a slavish article calling for a first preference vote for Ken Livingstone from Galloway.

    Most readers would assume that this was the position of RR as we have also had Salma Yaqoob – not in a personal capacity, but as Vice-Chair of RESPECT signing a totally uncritical letter in support of Ken Livingstone. As we know, it would be one thing to give critical support for Ken, but Salma Yaqoob’s letter – signed not in a personal capacity – is very worrying.

    I should note that Galloway’s position/180 degree turn, seems totally hypocritical and motivated more by his personal falling-out with Lindsey German than genuine politics, as he wrote to the Morning Star only a few months ago arguing vociferously that it was damn right to stand a socialist candidate for mayor.

    I think if RR were to back Lindsey German’s candidacy it would play an important role in rebuilding some left unity and co-operation and help heal some of the recent divisions.

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  17. There is no chance of RR backing Lindsey German because those that must be obeyed are backing Livingstone.

    Though Alans article makes many valid points, I think this is just left window dressing and despite the much vaunted comittment to pluralism of RR, you don’t get any wiff of debate over this issue, on its website or in its current paper.

    Only today the following was part of an email sent out to all RR supporters,

    “George Galloway and other prominent Respect members have made it
    clear they cannot support the mayoral candidacy of Lindsey German
    under whatever label she might eventually stand. George said, “It
    would be self-indulgence, a luxury the left can no longer afford, to
    stand a candidate of the left against Livingstone for mayor. The
    danger of Livingstone being defeated by the right is too great.

    “With opinion polls varying between neck-and-neck and a substantial
    Tory lead, a left candidate opposing Livingstone really could aid the
    Tories and risk handing the keys to City Hall to the rancid
    reactionaries around Boris Johnson.”.

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  18. Yep thats quite a firm line really. I am genuinely amazed at the speed with which this has happened.

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  19. “part of an email sent out to all RR supporters”

    Not an email I received!

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  20. well, perhaps one lesson is not to take the number of people you are emailing as any reflection of membership. we lurk viciously and then scandalise the leadership by presenting them with their own mailings. its a rum business.

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  21. Some of us are willing to consider the possibility that GG may, every year or two, be wrong about something. We think he is wrong about this election.

    It is possible in the mayoral election to cast two votes. One for the candidate you support politically (up to a point), for example Lindsey German and the candidate with the chance of keeping out the Tory, KL.

    Comrades will just have to accept that RR is not a slick professional machine. A member of the NC thought he might have time to write an article opposing political support for KL. He wasn’t able to. In this wicked world of our even the keenest socialist is sometimes affected by the needs of work and family.

    Is Alan’s piece “left window dressing”? You could say that. You could also say that it’s a political statement by a small Marxist current trying to influence the debate in a larger and more diffuse organisation in which the most prominent figures hold a different view. That’s politics.

    Apologies to Paul. I accidentally deleted both postings of your repeated comment while doing a bit of tidying up. Feel free to resubmit.

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  22. It is true that GG and other RR members have said they do not support the idea of a left challenge to Ken. That is all the e-mail says.

    No formal decsiion has been made by RR as an organisation, but it is also relevent that neither of two Socialist Resistence supporters on the National Council spoke to support the idea of supporting a left mayoral candidate, whether Lindsey or not, at the last NC meeting. Indeed no one voiced support for Lindsey at the NC meeting.

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  23. er Liam, in RR’s mailings to members, in its statements to the world, the position of refusal of support for a socialist challenge to Livingstone is forcefully (I would say polemically) laid out, both in respect of Lyndsay’s campain and in principle. It is the one clear thing about RR’s position actually. Are you trying to say that that is NOT the RR position? (I would obviously have a practical interest in this as someone who very much supports Lyndsey’s being a left wing candidate in the mayoral contest, as would many others). It seems politically a bit desperate to me to try and pretend that this is not the position of RR or that its all a bit of a cockup on the basis that its a new organisation etc. RobM not getting a mailing and me getting one might be explained like that. Violently attacking the very idea of a left wing challenge to Labour in all publications and circulars can’t really.

    Or at least I would have thought not.

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  24. What I mean’t by left wing window dressing is that SR can put out a right on (and in my view well argued) statement whilst at the same time not really pushing for RR to adopt that position. This seems to be what Andy, the SUN editor, claims.

    One of the things RR was mean’t to be critical of in Respect is decisions being taken by only a section of the leadership and then imposed on the rest. SR members were responsible for editing Respect and therefore could have at least argued for a balancing article to GG.

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  25. According to Andy Newman, neither of the two representatives of Socialist Resistance on Respect’s NC spoke in favour of a left mayoral candidate at the last NC meeting.

    So it looks like it is window-dressing for a sell-out.

    Sad, you know several months ago, I actually toyed with the idea of joining SR, impressed by much of their analysis of RESPECT and their correct recognition that ecology should be central to the outlook of socialists today.

    Oh well, maybe we will all be united on the barricades – when they finally arrive!

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  26. RR have not settled on a position for the mayoral contest, except that we have agreed:

    i) RR are not putting forward a candidate for mayor
    ii) As things stand, Lindsey German cannot use the Respect name.

    Galloway, and others – including myself – have argued one position. That is not yet the position of RR.

    It is still plausible that someone could persuade RR to back Lindsey German or Sian Berry for first preferrence.

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  27. What, reverse the publically stated positions of George and Salma, the positon of the Respect newspaper and RR emails to members?

    Now Andy you do like to joke!

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  28. yeah that much loved phrase ‘snakeoil’ comes to mind…

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  29. Andy, all the leading figures within RR with a media voice have stated openly and publicly and often in an oofficial capacity that they support KL for mayor full stop. As far as anyone not involved in the movement that is ergo the position of RR and for you to pretend otherwise is either naive or stupid.

    And why would RR support Sian Berry? Since when did she become a socialist?

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  30. Andy

    The leading figures of RR with any sort of voice (Galloway, Yaqoob, Ovenden & Francis to name but a few) have all stated quite openly that they support KL as first preference. Salma Yaqoob has even stated this in her official capacity. To pretend that RR havn’t decided their position behind closed doors is eother naive or stupid.

    And why would RR possibly support Sian Berry? Since when did she become a socialist?

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  31. that much loved phrase ’snakeoil’ comes to mind

    For future reference: if you’re attacking the SWP, try not to coin memorable phrases, or you’ll get them quoted back at you forever after, even in contexts completely irrelevant to the original remark. (We saw something similar with ‘juvenile dwarves’.)

    For some reason this also applies if you’re not actually attacking the SWP (which neither Andy nor George was). It’s probably dialectics.

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  32. Andy wasn’t attacking the SWP.

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  33. I must say I rather like the term snake oil. Its just that it comes in more then one brand.

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  34. True – I was criticising the ortho-Trots of permanent Revolution, but somehow the mythology has spread.

    Just to be clear. I wasn’t trying tto embarrass our “out” the SR members on the NC, for not raising the issue of Livingstone.

    When we had the last NC meeting it didn’t seem urgent to decide the mayoral question, i am sure to anyone. So it seemed to reasonable to considered at a later meeting, when more facts were known. But events move faster in politics than what fits into a timetable of meetings – since then we had the unforeseeable Dispatches prog, and attacks in the press on Livinhstone. In the absence of policy, members of RR have responded each according to their own persuasion. BUt that still doesn’t mean the issue is settled.

    Though nothing in Thornett’s piece persuades me that Livingstone is Blairite new labour, Livingstone just comes over as Labour to me.

    Ans does anyone really believe this argument abouit public transport in London being the most expensive tranpsort in any city on the world. Have any nof you tried to get an unregulated bus in Bristol or Southampton or Norwich to compare. London buses strike me as compatatively cheap.

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  35. Andy,

    some of us will never forget the snake oil incident which will echo in the halls of infamy for hundreds of years, like many of the other horrendous acts of perfidy uncovered on the blogs recently.

    More seriously on the Livingstone business it seems to me that George is looking for a way back in to more respectable types of ‘old labour’ politics with his own exclusion from the Labour Party being a reality that has to be contended with, whilst Salma has a vision of building a style of politics in Birmingham similar to that attempted by many on the municipal left in the 1980s. Nothing inherently dishonourable about any of these things but I don’t see how it squares with the politics of the ISG.

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  36. (Sentence deleted – Liam) It would have been quite possible for RR to have defended Livingstone without attacking Lindsey German or stating a position on the mayoral contest, that is to say, it would have been quite possible to have abided by what had been agreed in disussions at RR’s NC meeting.

    The idea that events have moved so fast that statements can be made that have not been authorised by the agreement on RRs NC is ludicrous. All that has happened is there have been some attacks on Livingstone from the Right (that are hardly as intense a media offensive that faced George Galloway in 2005)

    Respect Renewal have sent an email to their supporters directly attacking Lindsey German by name and saying that they won’t support her. What is more sleazy is the phrase “George Galloway and other prominent Respect members” this is an attempt for whoever sent out this undemocratic email to cover their tracks.

    The Respect Renewal website contains an article calling for a first preference vote for Ken, with no alternative argument. The Respect Renewal newspaper contains an article making the same argument, with no alternative argument, Respect Renewal email their supporters calling for a first preference for Ken, with no alternative argument:
    To most people this would imply that Respect Renewal support a first preference for Ken Livingstone.

    Socialist Resistance must be a) feeling very foolish or b) they lack backbone c) they are actually deceiving us as to their position – because they seem to have made no attempt to argue it within Respect Renewal and have let the leadership (that two of their members are supposed to be a part of) get away with publiclly using RR press and media machine to campaign for a position that has not been agreed or discussed on the NC.

    If I held their position of not supporting a first preference vote for Ken Livingstone, I would be fuming that my organisation – with no democratic discussion – had been so blatantly campaigning for a first preference vote for Ken Livingstone.

    This goes beyond the questions of whether it is right or wrong for Lindsey to stand, it asks fundamental questions of who pulls the strings in RR and what it’s democratic procedures are.

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  37. Andy writes: “In the absence of policy, members of RR have responded each according to their own persuasion. BUt that still doesn’t mean the issue is settled.”

    On the contrary RR website prominently features an article calling for first pref. vote for Livingstone and RR have emailed your supporters attacking Lindsey German.

    All these things have taken place not through statements made by, say Galloway, on his radio show or to the media, but through RR official machinery.

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  38. Alan Thornett talks about support for “a credible left wing candidate” – but that is precisely what Lindsey German isn’t.

    German got 3.2% of the vote when she stood as the Respect mayoral candidate in 2004. That was with a united Respect party behind her and with the mass opposition to the Iraq war still fresh in people’s minds. In 2008 she will be lucky to get even 2%. What purpose would it serve for Respect Renewal to hitch itself to this futile campaign which will be entirely marginal to London politics?

    From the sectarian standpoint of the SWP, German’s campaign makes some sort of sense because it will raise their profile and help publicise their slate of candidates for the London Assembly. But why should Respect Renewal have any interest in assisting the SWP to do that?

    Alan Thornett’s contribution is notable for the absence of any assessment of the political consciousness of the mass of voters. Even if his attack on Livingstone’s policies were correct (and personally I think it’s highly flawed), the reality is that there are relatively few people who would agree with Thornett’s harsh critique of Livingstone’s record and even fewer who would follow a call to vote for German.

    The overwhelming majority of progressive opinion in London will be rallying around Livingstone against Boris Johnson, and any criticisms such people may have of Livingstone’s record will be entirely subordinate to their desire to prevent a Johnson victory – which they understand would not merely be “a setback” for London, as Alan Thornett puts it, but an utter disaster – for the labour movement, for minority ethnic communities and for working people in general.

    Respect Renewal should leave the SWP to its own sectarian antics and orient instead towards the mass forces who will be backing Livingstone against Johnson. RR should present itself as the left wing of those forces, and its propaganda, while distinguishing RR politically from Livingstone, should place the central emphasis on the need to defeat Johnson.

    In its appeal to pro-Livingstone voters RR should argue the need for an independent leftist presence on the Assembly which will be able to back Livingstone against the Tories and Lib Dems when he is right, and put pressure on him from the left when he is wrong.

    A section of voters who are supporting Livingstone for mayor would be receptive to that argument and might be persuaded to cast their vote for a Galloway-headed progressive slate on the top-up list. But such voters will hardly be inclined to do that if RR aligns itself, not with Livingstone’s mayoral campaign, but with Lindsey German and the SWP.

    So this should really be a no-brainer for RR. A tactical orientation towards Livingstone’s campaign, and a united front with the mass opposition to Boris Johnson which expresses itself in support for Livingstone, is both in the interests of working people in London and also the best way of maximising the vote for RR’s Assembly candidates.

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  39. In the absence of policy, members of RR have responded each according to their own persuasion.

    Don’t be ridiculous, Andy. Of course RR only has one line on any issue, including issues where no discussion has been held to decide the line. And of course people don’t just say similar things when they agree, or different things when they don’t – obviously it’s all been stitched up behind closed doors, and the people who appear to disagree are just being very deep and devious.

    Really, I don’t know how you can go on peddling these obvious falsehoods – it’s not as if you’ve got some kind of privileged first-person knowledge that other commenters don’t have.

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  40. I agree completely with NotoBoris.

    But there has been no lack of democracy within RR.

    There has been an emerging consensus among many members of RR that in the changed circumstances it is corretd to back Livingstone.

    BUt there has been no argument put to the contrary. This position paper from Alan Thornett is the first we have seen.

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  41. (Sentence deleted – Liam) The ISG have been advocating a vote to the left of Livingstone for as long as I can remember. They have never vacilated from defended the position of Respect from before Galloway persauded them to split from Respect. Andy insists that there has been no lack of democracy, because there has been an emerging concenus. And how exactly does this concensus manifest itself? Where are the votes? Being George Galloway means never having to put your views to the membership. That is how votes get lost. The way to avoid losing votes is not to have any. If Galloway wants to expell the national secretary of his party, just declare an expulsion. Don’t waste time with votes to see if anyone agrees. Tell your party’s democraticaly selected London Mayoral candidate that she has been expelled and, again, don’t give the members the option of voting not to expell her. Set up an electoral alliance to stand against members of your party, but exclude the overwhelming majority of Respect members from selecting the candidates, or determing which non-Respect candidates can join this new alliance, without putting this to Respect’s members. But never forget to deny that this call, your membership of Respect into question. Boast in mass dailies about your taking the trouble to vote in the “rear of the year” contest, but don’t go to Westminster to participate in any of the votes that could inflict damaging defeats on New Labour’s anti-working class, pro-imperialist goverenment. Persuade the members of the ISG to cede control of their paper to you. And then deny them any opportunity to explain what they think about the London Mayoral contest. It’s your party, George. And you’ll do what you want to. And it’s your paper now, and it will say exactly what you want it to. If you deem a concensus has been formed around your views on Livingstone, that is 100% of the votes of all the VIPs that interest you. And why should you pay any attention to the little people, those people who are not very important? If you cannot persuade the majority of Respect Renewal to support your voting to deny women control over their fertility, do the next best thing. See to it that you at least stop them campaigning against you on this crucial issue. “Pluralism” George Galloway style. You know it makes sense.

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  42. (Sentence deleted – Liam)

    Andy says he agrees with notoboris. A fine penname, by the way. Except Lindsey German has made it clear that she and the rest of Respect are part of the no to boris camp. Andy has signed up to notoboris’ argument that Lindsey German is not a credible candidate on account of her only getting three percent last time round. Firstly, credibility does not mean ability to actually win. No Respect supporter pretends this is going to happen. The point is to creat conditions for dragging Livingstone to the left, to make him beholden on those who cast a first preference vote on the basis of Seamus Milne’s credible left-wing critique of Livingstone. Livingstone will be pulled in both a right-wing and left-wing direction if both hsi flanks are exposed. If his left-wing critics write him a blank cheque, as advocated by Galloway, then Livingstone is pulled in only one direction. He will scamper off to where there are swing voters. If the left have already handed him our votes on a plate, regardless of how he fights the campaign, then Livingstone and Johnstone leapfrog over each otherever rightwards. The gravitational attraction of Respect will give Livingstone pause for thought. Respect must make clear to London’s working class voters that regardless of the smear campaign that will greet her rising opinion poll ratings (which will do a hatchet job on her membership of the SWP, just as they “exposed” details of Socialist Action), it is not essential for them to agree with every dot and comma of what Lindsey German holds dear. It is general themes that should be emphasised. People before profit, in London and beyond. Welfare not warfare. Respect can tap into generalised contempt of working class voters for the priorities of capitalism, shared as they are by Livingstone. In order not to lose too many votes to Respect, Galloway will toy with radical left-wing rhetoric. Maybe. If he does this, then he creates a more favourable political climate for the genuine left. If he resists this, then he alienates his core constituency in a way that maximises Respect’s vote. This is a win-wing situation for Respect, and the rest of the genuine left. A sophistocated campaign that does not ignore the witchhunt against Livingstone, that makes clear that second preferences should go to Livingstone, and exactly why this is, and that makes clear that this is a campaign that is aligned to all workers in struggle, that emphasises the importance of greater democratic accountability, and massive curbs on politicians’ salaries and expense accounts… All these things are popular with significant sections of our class. Not the majority. Not yet. However, we have to start somewhere. The Labour Party would never have been born had it not set out it’s stall at a time when it appeared to lack credibility when set against the Tories and Liberals. All the parties of the Second International would never have contested elections had they waited until they become “credible.” Lenin should not have split the parties of the Second International to form the Third, and contested elections if Lenin had to wait for “credibility.”

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  43. Given that John Ross’s dream of trickle down is being demonstrated as a nightmare – possibly a million people thrown out of their homes, stagflation, etc. – is there any chance Livingstone might get a bit nostalgic for the old anti-capitalist days and start believing that “Another World Is Possible”?

    Here’s my wacky theory: Galloway has asked Chavez to lean on Livingstone. Perhaps Hugo has already slipped Ken a copy of Meszaros’ weighty tome, “Beyond Capital”…

    In the days after his re-election the mayor takes to wearing red berrets and singing love songs in spanish. Appearing on Galloway’s talk show, he outlines his vision of Cockney socialism…

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  44. Comment edited. Too many swear words. Liam

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  45. JJ, one of the SWP’s finest organisers at work there.

    You don’t know jack, son.

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  46. ah Tony C can you enlighten the RR membership.. when do they decide wether to back KL or not… since its on your website, newspaper and e mails!! Andy says its not official policy!!! have u ever heard such rubbish!!! perhaps tony u are calling on tube workers to cross picket lines because RED KL says its a good thing. Is there any accountsability in your organisation?? or is it GG sole property?

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  47. (Off topic paragraph deleted – Liam)

    Could I just say to jj that I think Thornett and co have been stitched up by Galloway, and they could very well do a one hundred and eighty degree flipflop. Galloway is notoriously intollerant of dissent. The SWP managed to get away with it for so long because of their strength of numbers. With them out of the way, Thornett and co are likely to be the next set of Russian Dolls to be denounced. The overwhelming majority of Respect’s members managed to rebuff Galloway when he unilaterally declared John Rees and Lindsey German ex-members. Thornett and co lack the ability to stop their being tossed aside. Respect Renewal is a mess. It is going to implode under it’s own internal contradictions. Many of their members will peel off sooner rather than later, and the ISG are likely to be the first to pack their bags, perhaps voluntarily, perhaps not. If they reapply for membership of Respect, working for Lindsey’s campaign, undermining Galloway’s sectarian project, let us make clear to them and others like them that we are not going to bear grudges. The door has not been shut in their faces.

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  48. Alan Thornett has discovered that Ken Livingstone is no longer “Red Ken” and therefore we cannot support him any longer. Like the jilted lover he complains ‘“Red Ken” is of no more than historical significance. Little of his politics today reflect his politics of those days.’ But the fact is Ken Livingstone was a left Labourite in the 1980s and he is a left Labourite today. Certainly the LP has moved rightwards, and Livingstone has with it.

    But why should Marxist’s support any reformist politicians in elections? Alan clearly thinks its because of their politics, their left platforms and records. Lenin and the revolutionary Comintern had a completely different approach, they saw it as a part of the united front tactic. The majority of the working class saw these Labour reformists as supporting their interests, and where the communists were not strong enough to stand themselves, they used the united front tactic. They argued for critical support to the reformists as a way to work alongside these workers in election campaigns. At the same time they were open about their criticisms of the reformists and about their communist aims. They aimed to convince workers in the struggle that reformism, left or right, was useless to defend their interests.

    Whatever else they did, they didn’t decide to support reformists on the basis of how “left “ they were. Or because they were a “lesser evil” to allowing the Tories in – that would lead you, if it was a race between Paddick and Johnson for example, to support the Lib Dems. Or as Thornett’s Fourth International did in France, calling for workers to vote for the Gaullist Chirac against the Front Nationale as the ‘lesser evil’.

    Is this at all relevant today? Yes it is. Ken Livingstone is still seen as a “left” by a large number of London workers, in particular by the Black, Asian and Irish communities. The fact that the Boris Johnson is a soft-racist, neoliberal, high-Tory will help mobilise these workers to actively support Livingstone. The question is, do we want to intervene alongside them or not and if so what tactic allows us to do it?

    Alan ignores this by talking only about “voting tactics”, voting 1 for a “credible left alternative” (Lindsey German presumably) and 2 for Livingstone – having already told us that Livingstone is not “supportable”! But this ignores what you do, how you campaign, what action you take.

    If you think Lindsey German is a credible class struggle candidate then you will be part of her campaign, initiating meetings in your trade union, canvassing around the estates for her organisation, organising local meetings for her etc etc. Her supporters, her audience will be the people you are trying to win to socialism (alongside the SWP). You will have to effectively ignore all those activists/supporters campaigning for Livingstone against Boris Johnson because you cannot campaign in two camps. It’s a real choice of what you do in action, not just a clever voting tactic.

    While Galloway’s painting up of Livingstone as some sort of “Red” is laughable, at least he understands that it would be a ridiculous tactic for Respect Renewal to build Lindsey German’s campaign/organisation while standing in opposition to the same organisation in the assembly elections. Maybe Alan and the ISG have not thought this one through?

    But as others have said already, it is more likely that this is one of those ISG positions “for the record”, not to actually fight for in RR. How else can one explain silence at the RR NC, no debate in the Respect paper, and just allowing Galloway and Co to carry their position by default?

    Stuart

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  49. There’s far too much sectarian rubbish going around on the far left about Livingstone. I agree with notoboris.

    Part of RR’s project is to win over sections of the working class that have abandoned New Labour. Livingstone is well to the left of New Labour on many issues. You can’t enter a constructive relationship with a political constituency by making ultra-left attacks on the figure with whom it most identifies. You can be critical, of course, but only from the basis of a correct analysis of the actual political forces involved, which Socialist Resistance certainly don’t have.

    Most of the left is perfectly clear about whose side they’re on. It is the ultra-left infantile sections that refuse to back Livingstone.

    The de Menezes shooting was dreadful but has to be weighed against Ian Blair’s support for multiculturalism. Blair is the most progressive Met chief we are going to get. If he was replaced, his successor would be to the right, with all the corresponding implications for the Black community. That may not matter to Alan Thornett but it matters to thousands of Black Londoners.

    Lindsey’s futile campaign is a waste of everyone’s time. Respect’s mass electoral base is the Muslim community, who won’t follow the faction that accused them of “communalism”: they’ve had that crap from British parties for long enough. No mass base equals political irrelevance.

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  50. […] a very critical article from Alan Thornett, a national council member of Respect Renewal, is arguing that Respect Renewal should back a […]

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  51. I have replied to Alan here:
    http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1636

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  52. “The de Menezes shooting was dreadful but has to be weighed against Ian Blair’s support for multiculturalism. Blair is the most progressive Met chief we are going to get. If he was replaced, his successor would be to the right, with all the corresponding implications for the Black community. That may not matter to Alan Thornett but it matters to thousands of Black Londoners”

    Yes we must rally the masses not just behind Ken Livingstone but behind the Met Chief. Of course we will also make carefully calibrated critiques of……er…what exactly?

    I haven’t heard such convoluted rubbish since I heard Ian Blair speak.

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  53. Another thought – all the discussion seems to assume that there will be two election campaigns. One will be Ken against Boris, where the broad popular masses will advance on all fronts and triumphantly sweep the arrogant jackal Johnson into the dustbin of history, along with those ultra-left fragments who fail to recognise the brilliance of our great, glorious and correct leader Ken (if you believe notoboris and Andy). And the other will be an entirely separate campaign for the assembly.

    It doesn’t work like that. New Labour, the Tories, the LibDems, the Greens, the BNP – all will run integrated campaigns for both their mayoral candidates and their assembly candidates. Part of that will be Ken endorsing all the New Labour assembly candidates, no matter whether they support him or not. So the central question for left-leaning voters is going to be whether or not you support New Labour – and Ken is tarred with that brush because he rejoined New Labour.

    Oh, and Phil is quite right to say that if you’re attacking the SWP, try not to coin memorable phrases, or you’ll get them quoted back at you forever after – the ‘footsoldiers’ jibe was spectacularly stupid.

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  54. from Respect website…

    Respect selects full list for London elections
    01/02/2008

    Respect members from across London met to complete the selection of their candidates to fight the Greater London Authority elections this May. A full and enthusiastic meeting in London’s Conway Hall also saw the launch of the Respect Channel on Youtube, a new campaigning tool for Respect.

    Over 240 Respect members from every area of the capital completed the selection of 18 candidates for the Respect list for London. The first part of the selection process took place last year and included the adoption of Lindsey German as the Mayoral candidate for Respect. Lindsey German and Tower Hamlets Councillor Oli Rahman were also selected to head the GLA list.

    Among the new candidates selected yesterday were Tower Hamlets councillor Rania Khan, former race equality advisor to Ken Livingstone, Kumar Murshid, and community activist and star of Big Brother, Carole Vincent.

    Respect National Secretary John Rees said, “Both the size and the enthusiasm of the meeting show that Respect is looking forward to providing a radical alternative to New Labour in the GLA elections.”

    The list of new candidates selected at last night’s meeting were:
    Rania Khan, Carole Vincent, Kumar Murshid, Glyn Robbins, Tansy Hoskins, Mukul Hira, Sultana Begum and Mujgan Kazeroonian.

    The full Respect list for the GLA is:Lindsey German, Oliur Rahman, Rania Khan, Carole Vincent, Salvinder Dhillon, Sait Akgul, Elaine Graham-Leigh, Kumar Murshid, Glyn Robbins, Berlyne Hamilton, Kat Young, Paul Fredericks, Pat McManus, Tansy Hoskins, Mukul Hira, Pat Stack, Sultana Begum and Mujgan Kazeroonian. The new Respect Channel on Youtube can be seen at: http://www.youtube.com/respectcoalition.

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  55. By my estimation six of this slate are in the SWP and two function as though they are members of it. That’s not a problem in itself but it does indicate a political narrowing of the project. And, while it’s a sensitive subject for all of us, “star of Big Brother” is not a label most of us would like to be known by.

    My recollection is that the numbers attending the London SWP aggregates were higher than 240.

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  56. Still 6 or 8 (if true) out of 18 is less than 50%.

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  57. according to the report of the AWL person at the meeting there were no more than 150 people there.

    Liam, on this blog and over at SUN people are saying that Thornetts piece is a fig leaf to cover the fact the ISG can’t support a vote for Livingstone but can’t be bothered to actually argue for it within Respect Renewal and are actually happy with the RR line to support livingstone

    Since your comrades edit the newspaper -which makes no mention of any opposition- and sit on the leading committees of RR it does seem that they aren’t putting much effort into arguing your position- don’t you find this disappointing?

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  58. notoboris has written the best on this- a must read for all- when will the left understand real politics and real dialectics- you have to analyse the whole situation- not just ‘your class'(infantile rubbish’) or your wishes- but what can be done- identify the weak link in the chain and work tjhere- read lenins’ infantile communism…..

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  59. Surely, though, the point of participating in elections is to lever a section of the working class into action? It is not directly anything necessarily to do with the program on which a party stands.

    For example, if the majority of workers have illusions in a certain reformist leader then I think we should say to those workers- we don’t agree, Livingstone or whoever has reactionary policies, for example on the RMT strikers, on public transport in general so we are arguing for workers to organise independently in the unions and the communities for independent action against privatisation, against racism, for genuine local democracy, for control of our own struggles

    IF the left was strong enough to run an anti-privatisation, anti-capitalist candidate for the GLA in a campaign that could identify and galvanise support for extra-parliamentary action- strikes, demonstrations, mass action- then this would be highly desirable. But we are not in such a position now.

    Whilst this is far from happening and a significant section of the working class has some illusions in Livingstone- especially when challenged by a right-wing maverick like Johnson- then it may be better to argue Vote Livingstone if that’s what you believe but whatever you do organise to fight on a whole raft of issues – privatisation, racism, public sector pay, housing, climate catastrophe.

    If you think Livingstone will help you on these issues then demand action from him- statements of support etc. but we tell you now you will be disappointed and at no stage should you blunt your criticisms of Livingstone. Working class communities will liberate ourselves by our own actions not by depending on reformist politicians..

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  60. Martin Ohr, Said: according to the report of the AWL person at the meeting …

    How many entrists has the AWL sent into SWP-Respect? Are they going to go the whole way and join the SWP too?

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  61. Notoboris presents a pretty sophisticated justification for supporting Livingstone and it makes a huge amount of sense for anyone who is looking for a reason to carry on as a Labour Party member or Labour voter. From that point of view Livingstone is not so much the weakest link as New Labour’s strongest electoral card. If the party stood any other mainstream Labour figure identified with the its largely neo-liberal programme the Tories would win definitely. Whose responsibility is that?

    In the United States exactly the same arguments can be used to support voting for the Democrats. They are marginally less vile than the Republicans. They are supported by the overwhelming majority of progressive opinion and the represent the political consciousness of much of the trade union movement and the working class electorate. The result is that the Democrats are the major obstacle to a working class party in the US.

    There is a process of political recomposition taking place in Britain at the moment. RR is its most recent development. By abdicating the right to stand a credible candidate opposed to the three pro-capitalist parties RR, even one with as contradictory a record as Livingstone, we would immediately be putting limits on RR’s development. If the Labour candidate were someone with a real commitment to class struggle, like John McDonnell the issue would be completely different

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  62. Stuart King gives the “classic” Leninist reasons to support Livingstone, “like a rope supports a hanging [person]”, without actually saying that we should do so – although it is clearly implied. As far as I am concerned, Stuart’s arguments are perefectly consistent with a call for a second preference vote for him, rather than an abstention.

    Thornett is arguing against those who would give political support to Livingstone, by pointing out some of his anti-working class positions, which is a perfectly valid form of argument. It doesn’t mean that he thinks you vote this way or that, depending on whether one person’s politics are “better” than another’s.

    Notoboris argues that we need to look at working class consciousness and adjust our tactic accordingly. Again, this is a reason for a second pref over abstention. At the same time as doing this, we need to look at effective ways to organise those who want to get involved in a more structured fight for socialist politics. A candidate to the left of Livingstone is one means of doing that.

    Stuart King and notoboris raise some interesting points about RR and the Lindsey German candidature in that context, especially in relation to RR’s own GLA campaign. I have argued that we should call for a first pref for her, but am now in two minds, because of their arguments. Is she a “credible” class struggle candidate that RR could campaign for, alongside its GLA slate?

    Part of the problem, as has been pointed out many times, is the complete absence of discussion between the SWP and RR over who would stand where in the GLA constituencies. It’s going to be messy.

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  63. Thornett’s position is infiintely preferable to Permanent Revolution’s, which surprises me. I took it for granted that they would back German, with Livingstone as second preference. Not only are they not inclined to do this, they seem to want to write all New Labour candidates blank cheques for the GLA, which I find absolutely astonishing. However, I have to confess to having little idea about the electoral system for the GLA. I am assuming it is by STV, with the potential to list as many candidates in order of preference. Is this correct? If it is not correct, then it is a disaster for Respect to have drawn up a slate without reference to the CNWP. The latter will contest, and the failure of both organisations to get their act together will lead to workers adopting a “plague on both your houses” attitude, opting for abstention, New Labour or the Greens. If the elections are by STV, then it is vital for Respect and the CNWP to negotiate over some minimum joint platform that allows them to recommend second preferences for each other. In order to minimise the BNP’s vote, all the other pro-capitalist parties should be listed on the ballot paper, in the order of lesser evil. The CNWP and Respect could take decisions separately as to how detailed their recommendations should be. Maybe leave it to the voters to choose, based on local knowledge of the candidates on the slate. Or maybe put Greens, New Labour, Lib Dems, inserting progressive independents and/or single issue campaign slates somewhere near the top. If Galloway’s supporters refuse to back Lindsey German over Livingstone, then there is no possibility of the transfer of Respect votes to Respect Renewal in the GLA elections. If Galloway did back Respect first-preference and Livingstone second-preference, then that would incline many Respect and Respect Renewal voters to at least consider transfering some votes beteeen slates. However, given the bitterness of the split, I suspect that, in the privacy of the polling booths, comrades might break verbal contracts. If a non-aggression pact could be agreed, the failure of German and Galloway to keep their words would count for nothing. The message would be sent out to their voters to transfer votes, and they might be more inclined to abide by any agreement. The potential for a non-aggression pact is, however, extremely slight. It is clear from Linda Smith’s refusal to sign the nomination papers that she would rather the BNP got elected than Respect.

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  64. I think you will only find that the only control SWP-Respect has over those London voters who vote German (assuming she is a candidate on 1st May) are the 200 or so voters who are members of the Socialist Workers Party. The rest of voters will no doubt make up their own minds who to vote for in the GLA election; as indeed did three quarters of them did in 2004, in ignoring German’s request in the pages of Socialist Worker for them to consider using their second vote for Livingstone.

    Linda Smith has not refused to sign anyone’s nomination papers. She does not have the power to stop a nomination, the SWP are perfectly capable of getting nominated. What she has refused to do is to allow them to call themselves “Respect” without initiating discussion about the post-split settlement. If they want to call themselves “Socialist Workers Party”, “People before Profit” or any other name they care to register with the electoral commission, they have the right to do that.

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  65. In what way would a Lindsey German candidacy help build the left or develop opposition to New Labour?
    German will have the support of the rump Respect, essentially the SWP and a tiny handful of allies. The SWP’s behaviour over the last years, from the Socialist Alliance onwards, have demonstrated over and over, that this organisation cannot be trusted at any level.
    Hence German will not be trusted by the bulk of those who could be considered her natural consituency, insofar as she has one, the labour movement and organised left and she will not win their support.
    As a candidate for the left her candidacy is a non-starter.
    Will she rally broader layers of the working class to her in opposition to Livingstone?
    Without the support of the left in the labour movement that is absolutely excluded. What’s more even as a leading figure in the STWC, she has been thoroughly discredited by her role in the Respect debacle.
    So she will not rally broader layers and her candidacy will get a pitiful number of votes.
    What’s more her political platform will be “broad” i.e. non-socialist and a variety of populist left reformism, it will not even then further the fight for socialism at the level of abstract propaganda.
    Therefore it is a pointless diversion and socialists should not support it or encourage it.
    Which leaves us with a choice, whether or not to support Livingstone against Johnson?
    Which I don’t think is really a choice, not because of Livingstone’s platform, there is absolutely no need to dress him up as some “Red” or even particularly progressive – he isn’t either – but because millions of working class Londoners will support him against the Tory on a class basis.
    It is necessary to unite with this elementary class instinct – to vote for Livingstone – warn of his future betrayals and attempt to rally the class in readiness for them.

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  66. There is no way of predicting what German’s vote will be so it’s pointless surmising whether she will get a low or high vote. Socialist don’t go into elections or any other political activity based on an cast iron guarentee of success. This is a red herring and avoids the real issue which is that socialist should use the election to propagandise against neo-liberalism and New Livingstone.
    Opponents of standing a socialist candidate claim that German will get a low vote so she shouldn’t bother. If this is the case then the only danger to Livingstones chance of winning is the unpopularity he has developed as a result of his neo-liberal policies.
    It would demonstrate the bankruptcy of the left to squander this chance to propagandise in support of a broad left alliance against new labour. That was the basis for the Respect project and we should not be diverted from this course because a few alarmists have been pulled to the right and can’t break from Labourism.

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  67. But German won’t be a socialist candidate. Not only will she not stand on a socialist platform, she will not unite the left or working class to develop a fightback against whatever attacks may or will ensue.
    The fact that she will get a tiny vote, simply serves to underline the futile nature of the proposed enterprise.
    She should be honest admit its a waste of time and consider what steps socialists should take as a result.
    One of which is obviously voting for Livingstone.

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  68. I’m not sure why you think that German will not make socialist propaganda while standing as a candidate. She will be campaigning on issues like fighting back against PFI, campaigning for affordable housing and decent wages/jobs. These are issues that any socialist would be proud of. German’s track record indicates that she is more than capable of raising socialist politics in her campaign.
    There is nothing obvious in socialists voting for Livingstone. Alan Thornett sets out very clearly why a first vote for Livingstone is not an option. In this instance, with such a high level of disillusion in Livingstone/New Labour, it’s important that Respect stands a candidate in this election to offer an alternative to New Labour and the Tories.
    If the left fails to offer a left alternative to Livingstone there is the real danger that the BNP will attempt to fill the vacuum.
    All socialists should vote German first and then second preference for Livingstone.

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  69. Does not the charming Sian Berry, she of the Green Party, identify herself as an ecosocialist? What do we make of this?

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  70. Had an informal discussion last night in our RR group about the GLA election.
    What stuck me most was that the situation seems to be changing daily.
    A few days ago LG 1, KL 2 seemed a viable option. Now that the EC decision on the use of the title ‘Respect’ has come out, things are in the melting pot.
    The latest word is that the SWP -Respect standing in Leyton is still giving out leaflets with the Respect logo. I thought they were standing as independents?
    Then we were told that they wanted to negotiate with Linda Smith but that she had gone on holiday until after the by-election.
    Not so I heard!
    SWP-Respect are telling stories to save face!
    Surely this sort of nonsense can’t go on for much longer?

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  71. What makes me think that German will not raise socialist politics in her campaign?
    You need only read her website Lindsey4London, there are no policies on it. Let alone socialist ones. She wants our support but can’t even be bothered to explain her alternative platform.
    What’s more, let’s not forget, it was German who said the Socialist Alliance was “too socialist” and complained that people who wanted to defend women’s rights were raising “shibboleths” that got in the way of sucking up to reactionaries to win their vote.
    This is little more than a joke.
    The closest German gets to advocating socialism, is a critique of Livingstone for trying to build socialism in one City, where she concludes;

    “Socialism in its broadest definition means the running of society by working people in the interests of working people. That can’t coexist with the big corporations, vast profits, privatisation and feeble regulation. Instead, as Northern Rock has shown us, we need nationalisation, well-funded public services and production for the essentials that people need.”

    Nonsense, this isn’t the broadest definition of socialism. Socialism is the expropriation of the capitalists by the working class, the abolition of capitalist production and its replacement by a democratic plan.
    The SWP used to criticise Militant for arguing socialism could come through parliament. Now it appears German thinks socialism will come through a London mayor nationalising Northern Rock, providing well funded public services and organising the production of the essentials that people need. What all in London? I’d like to see it.
    Ample reason to doubt, that she will be raising socialism, methinks.

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  72. When Lenin advocated a vote for Ramsey McDonald’s Labour Party, he did so on the basis of the weight of the trade unions in the party, which today has been reduced to workers paying their torturer for the privilege of being tortued a bit less brutally than the Tories are threatening. Additionally, Lenin argued that workers needed to see in practice how the election of a party advocating the expropriation of the expropriators via parliament would work, or not as the case may be. Workers’ illusions in a parliamentary road to socialism could only be shattered by giving these bastards enough rope to hang themselves. If Respect simply put forward a program for workers’ councils, and their centralisation, and a workers’ militia, her vote would not register. This is the kind of ultra-leftism that Lenin denounced in Left-wing communism, an infantile disorder. It is essential to use elections as an opportunity to engage in a dialogue with the class. The precise set of demands has to relate to the consciousness of workers as they exist in the here and now. There is a difficult balancing act to avoid falling into centrist accomodation, on the one hand, and ultra-left propagandism, on the other.

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  73. What are you on about “ultra leftism”?
    The purpose of fighting elections for a communist is to propagandise for communism. Now if you are such an incompetent communist that you make the form of your propaganda so unapproachable that it is unable to convince anyone of the justness of your cause, then rightly you should be laughed out of court.
    Step forward German.

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  74. So, bill, you use May’s elections to make propaganda for communism by doing what, exactly? By telling workers to vote for Ken Livingstone and for New Labour candidates to the GLA? That must make you an extremely competent communist. The reality is that so long as bourgeois democracy cannot be replace by workers’ democracy (which is only conceivable under dual power, with a vanguard party on the verge of winning a majority, boycots of parliamentary elections is not viable. Unless entryism is persued, Marxists have to stand. If centrists are alienated from the main parties, compromises with them need to be discussed. There are enormous swathes of worker activists alienated from New Laour but unwilling to embrace revolutionary socialism. These people will not stand under the abstract propaganda you are unwilling to stand on yourself. Nor will they surrender to Ken Livingstone’s politics which is what you are recommending. Whenever Marxists pretend to believe things they in fact reject, for reasons of short-term popularity, they are betraying the future of the movement. However, it is perfectly acceptable for Marxists to say to workers “While I do not share your illusions in certain politicians, and certain alleged solutions, there is, nonetheless, a progressive content trapped inside these illusions. I am prepared to go on a journey with you to test who is right about this.” .The method of the united front, a workers’ government, transitional demands and so much else is based on this approach. I am surprised you don’t know that.

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  75. German is against PFI. She is campaigning for more homes for working people and better and cheaper public transport in London. She is against the war in Iraq and cuts in the NHS. I fail to see how any of these issues are not relevant to the working class and to Marxists. She is standing for election as the London mayor so her campaign has to remain pertinant to the needs of Londoners, specifically the millions of workers who can barely afford to live in London.

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  76. I still believe Ken is a socialist.

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  77. Liam,

    Have your side managed to get anything in the February respect renewal newspaper on Livingstone?

    Do you know when it will be available to download? We don’t appear to have any RR activists in leeds, or indeed west yorkshire (or south yorkshire for that matter) for me to buy one from.

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