Liam redux

,

What do you do when you're in a hole?

Here is the text of an e mail from the secretary of the organisation that can no longer stand for election using the name “Respect” Due to the resignation of Lib Dem Councillor Louise Alexander, there will be a council by election in Weavers ward.We will hold our candidate selection meeting on Thursday March 20th…

Liam
1–2 minutes

Here is the text of an e mail from the secretary of the organisation that can no longer stand for election using the name “Respect”

Due to the resignation of Lib Dem Councillor Louise Alexander, there will be a council by election in Weavers ward.We will hold our candidate selection meeting on Thursday March 20th at 8pm in Oxford House, Derbyshire St, opposite Tesco on Bethnal Green Road .Could nominations with seconds be in to me by midnight on Tuesday March 18th please.The meeting will give us the opportunity to also discuss the GLA campaign. Please come and support Lindsey German, Michael Gavan and our list candidates.

This is doolally mentalism. Respect is going to leaflet the ward this Sunday. It was about one hundred votes short of winning last time and has a strong base there. It has a serious chance of winning. The “Left List” ,as it will probably be called on the ballot paper, may pick up several hundred votes from electors in the ward inspired by its affinity with Die Linke. You may be abducted by aliens while you sleep tonight . All is possible. What is certain is that the SWP has no support in the area that can translate into a meaningful vote and that by standing they are  performing a wrecking job.

In the last general election the Communist League stood in the Bethnal Green constituency  with a programme aimed at small farmers and Latino garment workers. They got 37 votes. History is about to repeat itself.

57 responses to “What do you do when you're in a hole?”

  1. Kevin Ovenden Avatar
    Kevin Ovenden

    Spot on, Liam.

    This destructive sectarianism should get the shortshrift it deserves in every poll on 1 May.

    Rees and those foolish enough to follow him have, incidentally, spurned sincere attempts by some people to ensure a united left challenge in Weavers. I hope those who attempted that draw the appropriate conclusions. They have no purchase whatsoever on the madness that has taken over the SWP leadership.

    Like

    Reply
  2. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Here we go again with the anti-SWP rants! I hope you can take as good as you give.

    Kevin, perhaps we could’ve had a united left at this election if Smith hadn’t refused to nominate slated Respect candidates. Not only do you show complete contempt for paid up Respect members by withholding their right to represent their organisation you have the cheek to blame them for this. You are the architects of this mess and neither group may reap the benefits. I hope you’re satisfied.

    See you all at the anti-war demo. Let’s hope it’s a good one!

    Like

    Reply
  3. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    “Rees and those foolish enough to follow him have,”

    You sound foolish youself considering you were one of these ‘fools’ until very recently – indeed, you were in the SWP for a lot longer than most.

    Pretty drastic U-turn you did there..

    Like

    Reply
  4. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    Ray, they are completely satisfied – most of the so-called crisis was in fact to do with this upcoming election. Ken’s supporters, including Yaqoob, were prepared to move heaven and earth to stop Respect presenting a challenge to him this May, even if it meant screwing up the most effective challenge to Labour in years.

    Sadly for them, they have not succeeded – Respect may not be challenging Ken, but The Left List has a better ring to it anyway. And to be honest, I’m glad to be rid of those who thought more highly of the Labour party than Respect. Good riddance.

    Like

    Reply
  5. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Just seen Galloways stupid response on The Wright Stuff regarding gays in Iran and Mehdi Kazemi’s deportation. Claiming that it’s the pink end of the khaki war machine. While I don’t believe Galloway is at all homophobic I think that his recent deal to work for an Iranian government funded TV company has compromised his politics.

    Not only could this damage Respects chances in the elections but the rest of the left as well. On reflection Galloway is welcome to the name Respect after his muddled and ill though through response on the Wright Stuff. It’s very unlikely that any LGBT person or their supporters, who make up over 10% of Londoners, will vote for Respect when word gets around.

    Why isn’t RR actually discussing and agreeing a consistant approach to these issues rather than letting Galloway make such daft, off the cuff remarks? We’re told that the left needs high profile people to represent us but this backfires big time when they say daft things like this.

    Like

    Reply
  6. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    What is really doolaly mentalism is that RR had no intention of standing in Weavers ward but as soon as Respect announce that they are standing then RR begin plotting to do their upmost to sabotage the Respect campaign. So much for RR’s protestations about wanting unity and negotiation.

    I’m sure the excuse for attacking Respect will be that RR are standing a candidate but I bet this will never see the light of day. RR members (if there is a formal membership) are still waiting for Galloway to inform them of his GLA list. While RR continues to use these tactics against Respect it will bring a plague on both our houses. But who cares, eh? As long as the motivation is to destroy Respect rather than build a left alliance.

    Like

    Reply
  7. redbedhead (nee Canadien) Avatar
    redbedhead (nee Canadien)

    No offense Liam but you don’t own the voters. It’s perfectly legitimate for you to think that you were right to form RR, perfectly legitimate for you to think that you were right to refuse to recognize and sign-off on Respect’s candidates, and you’re within your right to believe it was OK to deselect Lindsay German as the mayoral candidate without any discussion amongst anybody but a minority of Respect’s membership. That’s all your prerogative but you have to admit that it’s a bit rich for you to express outrage that the other side doesn’t just roll over and surrender because you want them to. If you want to be consistent then you have to argue against Galloway heading a list that is standing against the Left List, which contains the vast majority of the original candidates chosen by Respect last year. Otherwise you will be accused of being a hypocrite – and with reason.
    And you can’t even claim, as I recall was originally the case amongst RR people, that it is legitimate because Galloway & RR were building a Broad Left list for the London elections, which would be much larger and more representative than the Respect list. That Broad Left proposal has disappeared down the memory hole, been struck from the RR website, is gone faster than a Trotsky portrait in Stalin’s livingroom. In fact, there isn’t even a single article on the RR website about your GLA campaign. The election is six weeks away and you haven’t announced your slate? You will excuse others for not waiting for you to get your shit together.

    Like

    Reply
  8. tonyc Avatar
    tonyc

    How embarrassing for you, Ray, given that we had already informed our members by email of first a meeting to discuss standing (last week) and then a meeting to select a candidate – that was sent out on Monday of last week.

    The SWP has chosen to have its candidate selection meeting on the same day, at the same time as us.

    As for it being “SWP-bashing”, the only bashing going on here is that of the heads of decent activists’ heads against brick walls at the continuing stupidity of John Rees.

    DCM, your sneers further embarrass you – remember everyone, DCM is the person who assumed that just cos I, a gay man, had a relationship with another gay man who got expelled from the SWP, this meant I would automatically have bias towards him. That’s the level these people have sunk to.

    Kev long ago was trying to raise criticisms of Rees and the CC, as was I – the lack of any debate meant I dropped out, and Kev just carried on working to build Respect.

    Also, as bad and dishonest as Rees was, it’s a bit unfair on SWP members to make believe that nothing has changed in his behaviour.

    Like

    Reply
  9. tonyc Avatar
    tonyc

    Canadien, again with the lies. You people really need to stop.

    The appeal for a broad slate hasn’t been removed from the website. Look, just to help you, here is a search string: http://www.respectrenewal.org/index.php?option=com_search&Itemid=99999999&searchword=appeal+broad-based&submit=Search&searchphrase=any&ordering=newest

    It never went away, but there’s this thing about websites that you might not know – new stories come, and old stories get pushed down the page.

    If you want to talk about things “disappearing”, ask how come the original press release announcing that SWP member Ahmed Hussain stood by the principles of Respect and was not defecting to the Tories has been completely removed from the SWP/Respect website. That one really has gone. I’m sure you’ve written in a pro-SWP comments box somewhere, sneering at the same thing.

    The “Broad list” has been a good effort. Those who paid any attention – clearly, that doesn’t include you – will know that we always felt there was a very small chance of getting anywhere, because you have to spend a long time building up the relationships needed to get people to stand on a list dominated by another party. People are very burned by what the SWP did (*especially* in the RMT, where the SWP tried to wreck a move towards standing candidates in elections when what it should’ve done was get involved – instead, three CC members called Bob Crow “unscrupulous”), and we always accepted that what we really needed was 9-10 months of political involvement with people.

    And that’s how it’s turned out. We’ve had some really, *really* good discussions with people, all of whom are supportive, but will need more time to come round. In some cases, union leaders have been happy to get involved, but the timescales of putting things through union executives means it’s impractical.

    I’ve personally taken part in discussions, so I know that the support is there. It’s been a really useful exercise and will bear a lot of fruit in the future – but for now, time has been too short to cement the kind of political involvement that will lead to people standing.

    Of course, given your sneer about the original article, I can already see how you will sneer about this. You had a reputation as being an honest comrade – well, look at yourself and what you’ve become. Your reputation has gone.

    The rest of your post is similarly dishonest. We tried for a long time to get into discussions with Lindsey, and we were rebuffed at every turn. The one time we thought we might get somewhere, during a conversation with Michael Lavallette, turned out to be just another opportunity for the SWP to claim we had refused to allow them to use the name Respect.

    We never deselected Lindsey. Your side has openly, publically, expelled us. Your side has removed us from mailing lists (despite us all being paying members) and refused to even contact people like Hanif, the selected candidate for City & East.

    Of course, your side is standing a white man against a sitting, left-wing Asian Muslim councillor. I’m sure you’ve got a good justification for this, but I have to be honest, I’m past caring how you lot justify such disgraceful politics.

    The one thing you can’t accuse us of is just “doing” things. We’ve tried to talk to Rees and German, and they ignored us. Well, tough on them now.

    How much time do you think we should waste trying to get into negotiations to allow both sides to stand and not compete etc, and be rebuffed?

    If you want to know why things have gone the way they have since the split, start – please, for the love of Rees start – asking questions about what you’re being told.

    And ask why it is that some people were wanting to get into discussions with our side about trying to stand a unified candidate in the by-election, yet the SWP had already decided to stand.

    I guess the time has passed to even discuss unity, if that’s the way the SWP behaves when one of the few non-SWP members in their organisation is rebuffed when trying to call for a unified approach.

    Like

    Reply
  10. tonyc Avatar
    tonyc

    “Just seen Galloways stupid response on The Wright Stuff regarding gays in Iran and Mehdi Kazemi’s deportation. Claiming that it’s the pink end of the khaki war machine. While I don’t believe Galloway is at all homophobic I think that his recent deal to work for an Iranian government funded TV company has compromised his politics.”

    I think These people may be more suited to your politics if you’re reduced to coming out with rubbish like that.

    Remember, people, the SWP members who turned up to ruin an RR meeting at SOAS yesterday were applauding the AWL when they said the same thing.

    Like

    Reply
  11. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    Gay = Sex crimes against young men.

    Agree?

    Bought George does.

    Like

    Reply
  12. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    Keep Digging!

    Like

    Reply
  13. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    Well if Galloway is not compromised, why did he make up the smear about Kazemis boyfriend being a sex criminal who has carried out “sex crimes against young men”,in your opinion Tony?

    Like

    Reply
  14. Chris Brooks Avatar
    Chris Brooks

    redbedhead does have a point: what we are looking at here is the natural result of the breakdown in Respect and its fragmentation into two public faces. Standing head to head against each other is, perhaps, the most extreme form of this malady.

    However, it leaves the question open: how can we get back together? Renewal is the only side making [even lukewarm] approaches for co-operation, for example on a common slate, and the SWP are both ignoring them and freezing Renewal supporters out from the branches they control.

    Like

    Reply
  15. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    Oh do stop twisting tonyc – so tedious to try and imply anything that I said was homophobic.

    And ironically, when your glorious leader talks about gay men being executed for ‘sex crimes’ with a straight face, that is just fine and dandy, and anyone who thinks otherwise is ‘just like the AWL’.

    You want to sort out just what it is you believe in these days.

    Like

    Reply
  16. tonyc Avatar
    tonyc

    “Oh do stop twisting tonyc – so tedious to try and imply anything that I said was homophobic.”

    At the very least it was disgusting; at worst it was homophobic.

    As someone pointed out, you don’t assume that Lindsey German will support John Rees just cos they’re partners.

    But you do with gay people with whom you disagree.

    It’s time for you to stop embarrassing yourself, DCM. Everyone knows now just how ridiculous your arguments are – although I’m happy to quote the points you made about me sleeping with Kevin Ovenden if you think it’ll do you any good.

    DCM, your comrades are now arm in arm with the AWL. Deal with it. The very fact that you’ve sunk to using phrases like “your glorious leader” puts you further down the path to sect-like irrelevance.

    Like

    Reply
  17. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    I don’t think we should bring anyones personal lives into this discussion but there have definitely been attacks on Rees and German by referring to their personal relationship on SUN so when playing with fire fingers get burnt. Let’s end this here otherwise it becomes personal rather than politcal.

    Regarding Weavers ward it’s telling that once again Respect take the initiative and then RR claim they have been planning the same thing, accusing Respect of sectarianism for stealing their thunder. Perhaps if RR for once took the iniative then this might ring true. As for that white liberal jibe about a white man standing against an asian man who did Galloway oust in Bethnal Green?

    I agree with Chris that this state of affairs is deplorable. But unless RR changes its emphasis on attacking the SWP at every opportunity to actually getting on with building a left alliance then unity will be a pipe dream.
    It would be boadering on the delusional if anyone in Respect believed RR wanted unity after the constant attacks coming from certain quarters of RR. Call us hacks, a sect, wreckers or whatever you like but we’re not stupid. Stop the attacks and then we might start to believe that RR wants genuine unity.

    As for the broad list, RR are supporting Livingstone so the RR strategy for this election seems somewhat confusing. If RR are going to stand candidates then great but I suggest they get on with it.

    The AWL are right to criticise Galloway for accusing a gay man, murdered by the Iranian state, of indulging in sex crimes. It’s a bloody disgrace for anyone on the left to make those sorts of accusations. The fact that Galloway believes criticism of the treatment of gays in Iran will lead to a US invasion is evidence of how far he has drifted from a socialist analysis. While we attack the hawk like posturing of the West towards Iran socialists do not act as apologists for gay oppression.

    Like

    Reply
  18. Bill Avatar
    Bill

    Does TonyC support Galloways claim that the executed man was a sex criminal?

    Like

    Reply
  19. prianikoff Avatar
    prianikoff

    I watched the Youtube extract and my impression of it was that Galloway was saying that *the actual charge* used by the Iranian state was some form of sexual attack, not the fact that he was gay. Which is probably factually correct.

    From what I read about the case, the unfortunate victim of this judicial lynching was found engaging in a sexual act with a young male, which the state prosecutors interpreted as an assault of some kind.

    Galloway made it clear that he is absolutely opposed to the death penalty and did not endorse this interpretation, nor the barbaric sentence.
    All he said was that it should not be used as another reason for an attack on Iran.

    It should be remembered that legal decisions in Iran and other countries may stem from bedrock populist prejudice which can be very intolerant and even lead to murder.

    The 1999 film “Boys Don’t Cry” dealt with the case of Brandon Teena, which occurred in the US mid-West and is described here: –

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teena_Brandon

    A friend of mine witnessed a vicious assault on a transvestite male in Sicily, who was chased from a bar and beaten up. Brutal attacks on gays aren’t unknown in Britain either.

    Galloway has put his foot in it a few times in interviews, articles and speeches – a reflection of the limitations of his politics and tendency to want an alliance with religious forces. But I don’t think he was justifying the brutal actions of Iranian judges and I’m normally quite critical of his statements .

    Like

    Reply
  20. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Galloway accused the gay man of being a sex criminal and argued that this was why the Iranian state hanged him. The Iranian state has used this ploy to murder thousands of gay men. Another form of torture that it commits is to brutally cut off the genitals of gay men. There is no excuse for any socialist to collude with the lies about gay men perpetuated by the Iranian state.

    Teena Brandon was not executed by the US government for being gay. If I follow the logic of your arguement, which I’m sure you don’t actually mean, then because homophobic attacks occur in the West it’s ok for Iran to execute gays. These crimes are all relative because they’re just another aspect of global homophobia.

    The difference is that the US and UK don’t have a policy of executing gay men or cutting off their genitals because they have sex with other men. They actually prosecute homophobes because socialists, gay people and their supporters have fought a long struggle for gay rights in these countries. All socialists should welcome and support the same struggle in Iran. Socialists always start from defending the oppressed and in this case, in Iran, it is the brutal treatment of gay men that we should be criticising not Peter Tatchell’s so-called warmongering.

    The reason why I think this is a collosal muck up is because we are 6 weeks away from an election where the left needs all the support it can get. To our opponents this is a gift that they will cynically exploit in order to discredit us. The fact that Galloway works for the Iranian government makes it appear as if he’s colluding with them. The basis of Galloways arguement is homophobic and there is no getting around this. The best damage limitation would be for him to apologise.

    Unless socialists in RR start putting forward a consistant political arguement in RR that replaces Galloways muddled thinking then this will continue to affect us all.

    Like

    Reply
  21. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    “At the very least it was disgusting; at worst it was homophobic.”

    As I have already said on SUN, I would have raised the issue if I was talking about a heterosexual couple. Trying to shout me down with accusations of homophobia really doesn’t wash.

    And after your support for Galloway’s latest outburst, you’re starting to sound like one big hypocrite. The ‘anyone who dares criticise Galloway is just like the AWL’ smear is wearing very thin and certainly won’t wash with the gay rights groups that are awaiting an explanation.

    Like

    Reply
  22. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    Prianikoff- this can’t really be explained away so easily I think.

    You write “I watched the Youtube extract and my impression of it was that Galloway was saying that *the actual charge* used by the Iranian state was some form of sexual attack, not the fact that he was gay. Which is probably factually correct.”

    When you say ‘factually correct’ what do you mean? I presume you mean the ‘fact’ that the state defined it as an attack- well, yes, because they view gay sex as a crime.

    Yes, Galloway said he disagreed with the death penalty for ‘anything’- perhaps implkying the man had done something wrong.

    This is what is out of order. Gay sex should not be a crime- in Iran and many other countries it is and this is wrong and to confuse critiicism of this with pro-war stance is an extremely right-wing argument.

    Galloway should be called to account within Respect over this.

    Whether he will be reamins to be seen.

    Like

    Reply
  23. Robert Mugabe Avatar
    Robert Mugabe

    I wonder if anyone here can help me.
    I’ve been looking to buy an MP, and I hear G.Galloway is for hire.
    Ahmedinajad tells me he’s not to expensive and will help me sanitising my puf, err sex criminal problem.
    And he can tell an imperialist warmonger when he sees one (That Peter Tatchell eh? “Pink End of the khaki war machine” – genius,George).
    Does he have an agent?

    Like

    Reply
  24. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    there have definitely been attacks on Rees and German by referring to their personal relationship on SUN so when playing with fire fingers get burnt. Let’s end this here otherwise it becomes personal rather than politcal.

    Funny thing – I’m quite an assiduous reader of SUN, but I don’t remember one of these attacks on Rees and German by referring to their personal relationship (exhibit A) – nor do I remember the people who attacked Tony stating that they were responding to previous attacks (exhibit B).

    I’ll gladly end this here – without any retractions or apologies – if you can cite two or more examples of A and at least one of B. If not, not.

    Like

    Reply
  25. Mark P Avatar
    Mark P

    Look just wait 6 weeks or so then lets draw some conclusions.

    IF Left List score a stunning victory, Lindsey German comes a highly credible fifth in the Mayoral polll and grabs a set in the London Assembly while Michael Gavan trounces Hanif the REspect candidate in City and East London, helping the Left LIst to secure its first councillor elected under the label to win in Tower Hamlets’ Weavers Ward I would expect all Respect Renewal supporters to draw a long breath and admit how wrong we were to underestimate the political effectiveness and broad appeal of an SWP-led Respect.

    IF a George Galloway-led Respect list scores massively more votes than the Left List while Respect councillor Hanif standing in City and East London silmilarly out-polls the Left List’s Michael Gavan, helping Respect to win another council seat in Tower Hamlets’s Weavers Ward, alongside a third councul seat in Birmingham and creditable performances in Manchester, Walsall and Bradford, well… I would expect Respect Renewal supporters to be quietly confident that Respect has a future and SWP-Left List supporters to consider the scale of the errors they have made in the past six months cutting themselves off from such an effective electoral force.

    Is it too much to ask for such an even-handed reflection in 6 weeks time?

    Mark P

    Like

    Reply
  26. TH Respect Survivor Avatar
    TH Respect Survivor

    “…the most effective challenge to Labour in years.”

    DCM, have you completely lost your marbles? Are you really referring to The Left List, and with a straight face as well? The challenge to Labour right now in the Mayoral race is Boris Johnson, a bigot, a racist, a thug and a homophobe. It’s unfortunate but it’s true. The sooner you’re willing to admit that the better. Unless you want to wake up on the 2nd May with that bufoon as your Mayor.

    “…that RR had no intention of standing in Weavers ward but as soon as Respect announce that they are standing then RR begin plotting to do their upmost to sabotage the Respect campaign”

    Toking on the same stuff as DCM? RR could go around making the same argument in reverse. But we’re looking to win an election or three. Have fun posting sectarian nonsense.

    “As for that white liberal jibe about a white man standing against an asian man who did Galloway oust in Bethnal Green?”

    Galloway ousted a pro-war, neo-liberal Blairite. The Left List are standing against an Asian, Muslim left-wing councillor in Newham with a background in Militant and in the anti-fascist movement. Spot the difference.

    We’ve got out election machinery in gear. And we’re going for gold. Let’s see what comes on the 1st May.

    Like

    Reply
  27. Clive Searle Avatar
    Clive Searle

    Indeed, Mark. Let’s come back in six weeks and look at the electoral balance sheet.

    As for even-handed reflection…don’t hold your breath.

    Like

    Reply
  28. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    TH Respect Survivor – no, that’s not what I said. At all.

    Like

    Reply
  29. Chris Brooks Avatar
    Chris Brooks

    >>RR are supporting Livingstone

    Ray, that’s really not the case. if you get the chance, take a look at the Respect paper. It’s made clear there. Both Renewal and Rees-pect are calling for a vote of Livingstone above Boris. But Renewal doesn’t have a position for or against The Left List’s campaign. I’m sure we all wish Lindsey well but, of course, the real campaign for socialists is for the GLA – where we have a credible chance of election.

    Like

    Reply
  30. Nas Avatar
    Nas

    I’m afriad I don’t wish Lindsey German’s campaign well. All her Left List can hope to do is to sow enough confusion to stop Respect being elected to the GLA and Tower Hamlets council.

    Every vote or bit of encouragement she receives will help her play that wrecking role. The lower her vote and the higher Respect’s the better for the left all round.

    Like

    Reply
  31. prianikoff Avatar
    prianikoff

    Ray: “If I follow the logic of your arguement, which I’m sure you don’t actually mean, then because homophobic attacks occur in the West it’s ok for Iran to execute gays.”

    You’re right. That wasn’t what I meant and I accept the difference between “populist” and “state” violence against gays. In Iran anyone who’s a victim of the former would also suffer the latter. I was simply saying such prejudices aren’t unique to Iran.

    Jason:

    “When you say ‘factually correct’ what do you mean? I presume you mean the ‘fact’ that the state defined it as an attack- well, yes, because they view gay sex as a crime.”

    Well I’m not an expert on Iranian law and have only read about the case briefly. But the question of consent and age would come into it too.

    Obviously I agree that Iran should not penalise consensual relations and that the death penalty is used there to brutally enforce conformity in social and sexual relations.

    This case and that of the teenage girl who was hanged because of her alleged promiscuity were absolutely appalling.

    This is why it’s important to prevent the deportation of anyone who faces such repression. People in Iran should demand that “hanging judges” are brought to account for their crimes and repeal repressive laws on sexual conduct.

    To get back to my original point though, this will not happen if popular sentiments don’t change. When people feel they are in a state of siege and that the democratic opposition is another mouthpiece of their besiegers, this is much less likely to happen.

    Like

    Reply
  32. Lights Camera Action Avatar
    Lights Camera Action

    Pink Tinge

    Like

    Reply
  33. Ian Drummond Avatar
    Ian Drummond

    “Ray, they are completely satisfied – most of the so-called crisis was in fact to do with this upcoming election. Ken’s supporters, including Yaqoob, were prepared to move heaven and earth to stop Respect presenting a challenge to him this May, even if it meant screwing up the most effective challenge to Labour in years.

    Sadly for them, they have not succeeded – Respect may not be challenging Ken, but The Left List has a better ring to it anyway. And to be honest, I’m glad to be rid of those who thought more highly of the Labour party than Respect. Good riddance.”

    Just seen this post from yesterday, what delusional nonsense from beginning to end. The Left Behind List has a ring of total irrelevance and failure to it. Very London centric too, where else can you stand as a list? The only placewhere national parties are regularly called “List” is Israel!

    Like

    Reply
  34. Padraic Avatar
    Padraic

    I’ve given up on conspiracy theories. Yes, there was a hig level mole in the IRA and MI5 did a job on Scargill but they needn’t bother with the Left now because we do it so well ourselves – just look at the train crash that is RESPECT.

    Yes, there are serious political differences that need to be debated out but judging by some of the abuse being doled out here, it looks like comrades would prefer polemics about mostly minor differences that any real attempt to develop a real alternative to New Labour.

    So it looks like we have to go through the experience of both sides standing against each other, tasting the fruit of division and defeat and some getting demoralised and leaving, before we go back and start again.

    What are you all doing around the middle of May?

    Like

    Reply
  35. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    (Two unpolitical paragraphs deleted. – Liam)

    I’m still waiting for any of you to condemn the homophobic nonsense you leader is spouting on TV. Has compromise made you all lose your integrity so that you can’t even disagree with him when he is argueing reactionary politics?

    Like

    Reply
  36. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    “Just seen this post from yesterday, what delusional nonsense from beginning to end.”

    Which bit is delusional Ian? The bit about Yaqoob not wanting Respect to challenge Ken? You mean you didn’t know that she wrote a letter objecting to that? You didn’t know that Labour supporters joined Respect in order to stengthen the side opposing Lindsey German? Don’t play dumb Ian.

    You try and try to convince yourself that the SWP are the devil in disguise but the one and only reason that you are in ‘Renewal’ is because of Mr G. You know that and everyone else knows that and it is quite frankly emabarrassing to watch you try to pretend you have some sort of genuine ‘gripes’ with the SWP when you were happily a member yourself until all this kicked off.

    By the way, it’s absolutely fantastic the way Student Respect are going from strength to strength. I don’t think they’ve ever done so well. But people tend to do well when they stay united in the face of those who would like to see their destruction.

    Like

    Reply
  37. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Ian Drummond: “Just seen this post from yesterday, what delusional nonsense from beginning to end. The Left Behind List has a ring of total irrelevance and failure to it. Very London centric too, where else can you stand as a list? The only placewhere national parties are regularly called “List” is Israel!”

    Liam why has this unpolitical nonsense not been edited? If you want to censor what I write by describing it as “unpolitical” then explain why. It appears to be one rule for those who support the SWP and another for those who want to discredit us.

    Like

    Reply
  38. Nas Avatar
    Nas

    Ray: stop moaning. It’s Liam’s blog. Get used to it.

    The post he wrote is very interesting. I think the assessment people are likely to make over this clash in Wavers is who has the best chance of winning and who is outwardgoing rather than fixated on other bits of the left.

    On a Londo-wide level I’m wagering that the Left List will get 1 percent.

    Like

    Reply
  39. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Nas you merely confirm your competetive and undemocratic attitude towards other comrades.

    Like

    Reply
  40. Nas Avatar
    Nas

    What do you believe the Left List will get, Ray? You must have a view. I think Galloway will cat another upset and take a seat while German will get about 15,000 votes.

    Like

    Reply
  41. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    DCM says “By the way, it’s absolutely fantastic the way Student Respect are going from strength to strength. I don’t think they’ve ever done so well. But people tend to do well when they stay united in the face of those who would like to see their destruction.”

    Well DCM why don’t you ask Rees and Co why there is no report on the website about Student Respect going from strength to stength at Manchester University – where Respect had the elected Gen Sec and Campaigns officer, etc last year.

    Well the truth, the SWP decided to prioritise SWSS and StW this year. They dropped Respect except for faux delelgations to the Respect conference and standing in SU elections and, surprise, surprise got wiped out the other week in the Student Union elections. Strength to Strength? You must be joking.

    Like

    Reply
  42. Chris Brooks Avatar
    Chris Brooks

    TLC, ‘wiped out’ is a bit much. The results are here:
    http://www.umu.man.ac.uk/representation/sabbatical_results.shtml

    Like

    Reply
  43. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Galloways sex criminal

    Statement of Seyed Mehdi Kazemi

    I am an Iranian national, was born in Tehran. I am Shia Muslim. I have one sister. I have lived all my life with my parents and sister until I came to the UK on 15.09.2005. My father owns dried fruits shop in Iran and sometimes he exports and imports goods.

    I attended school, in Tehran for five 12 years. When I finished my secondary school I started my high school called Bagher Al Olom. I was 17 years old that I should study in the UK. He made all arrangements for me to come to the UK to study. I was granted six months student visa until March 2006. In February 2006, I decided to continue my studies and extended my student visa until November 2006.

    When I arrived in the UK I began my English course at Leicester Square School of English in London. For the first two months I lived with my uncle in London. I then moved to Brighton and in November 2005, and joined Embassy CES College in Hove. I extended my student visa until November 2006 as I wanted to continue my studies in the UK.

    When I was in Iran I did not have any problems. However, I used to have a male partner whom I used to meet secretly. I was 15 years old when I started dating one of my class mates in school. His name was Parham. He was also Iranian and we used to spend a lot of time together. I had just turned 15 years of age when I found out that I was sexually attracted men. I was very scared of this feeling and did not tell anyone about it. Parham was my best friend and one day he told me that he was attracted towards men and not women. When he told me that I started feeling comfortable with him and decided to tell him that I felt the same, we were 15 years of age when we decided to start our relationship.

    We used to meet everyday in school and sometimes out side school in cinema or park. We started having sex about eight months after dating each other. We used to meet either in his house or my house when there was no one around.

    No one knew about our relationship. Everyone believed that we were best friends and nothing more than that. Very rarely he used to come to our house. My parents knew him as I used to spend a lot of time with him.

    We were very scared of our relationship. But I had strong feeling towards him and could not stop meeting him. We had decided to keep our relationship a secret. We continued our relationship as I knew that if any one from the government had found out about our relationship we would be executed.

    When my father decided that I must study in the UK, I was sad that I was leaving Parham behind in Iran. But I knew that I could return to Iran during my college holiday and after I have completed my studies in the UK. The thought of returning to Iran gave me the courage to leave Parham behind.

    When I came to the UK, I was in touch with him via email. We used to email each other almost once a week. He used to tell me that the situation in Iran is getting worse and there is more restriction on people and we used to write about general issues. We missed each other a lot and I wanted to return Iran at the end of my studies.

    Around December 2005, Parham stopped emailing me. I wrote about two three emails to him but he did not reply. I thought that this was maybe because he was outside Tehran or did not have access to internet.

    Towards the end March 2006, my uncle in the UK called me and informed me that my father had called me and informed him about my male partner in Iran. He further informed me that Parham was arrested by the authorities in Iran and he had mentioned my name to the government of Iran. The authorities had been to my father’s house looking for me and my father was very shocked and scared about the whole situation. My uncle is an opened minded man and has lived in the UK most of his life and was not angry with him about this issue as I had expected him to be. However, he informed me that my father was very angry with me and had informed my uncle that I must return to Iran as he wanted to beat me up.

    I was very scared and my uncle advised me that I must not return because I am in trouble with my father and the authorities. He told me that I will try to find a way for me to stay in the UK as my life would be in danger if I had return to Iran. He told me that I must wait for his call.

    Later that day my father called me and was very angry with me. He shouted at me on the phone and told me to return Iran as soon as possible. I did not say anything to him and just hang up the phone as I was very scared of him.

    I continued my studies but had a lot of tension in my mind. I was thinking about Parham. I was very sad and scared for my life. I waited for my uncle to figure out a way to save my life as I knew that if I return to Iran I will be killed.

    A week later my uncle called me and asked me to explain the whole situation to him. He told me that I would not be able to help if I don’t tell him full and true story. I decided to tell him everything. We discussed that whole issue and I told him that I was very sacred of my father and the government of Iran. My uncle told me that he will get more information from Iran and will keep me informed.

    Around end of April 2006, my uncle called me again and informed me that my father had informed him that the authorities had executed Parham and that I must not return to Iran as the authorities would do the same to me. My uncle told me that this time my father was very scared and had specifically advised my uncle that must not return to Iran.

    I asked my uncle how the authorities found out that Parham’s homosexual. My uncle told me that he was caught with another guy and was arrested. He was interrogated and asked to tell the authorities about all the men that he relationship with and he had mentioned my name to the authorities. The authorities had informed my father of the whole issue and that I was also in relationship with Parham. At first my father was angry and wanted me to return home but the last time he called my uncle after Parham’s execution, he feared for my life and strongly advised that I must not return to Iran.

    Parham was charged with crime being homosexual and was executed. Iran is an Islamic country and it is a serious offence to be in a relationship with a person of the same sex.

    I wish to inform secretary of state that I did not come to the UK to claim asylum. I came here to study and return to my country. But in the past few months my situation back home has changed. The Iranian authorities have found out that I am a homosexual and they are looking for me. I can not stop my attraction towards men. This is something that I will have to live with the rest of my life. I was born like with feeling and can not change this fact but it is unfortunate that I can not express my feeling in Iran. If I return to Iran I will be arrested and executed like Parham. Since this incident about Parham I have been so sacred. However, when things do get settled down I want to start dating again and live my life without fear.

    I am currently living in he UK on student visa which is due to expire in November 2006. I now wish to claim asylum in the UK I can not return to Iran because I will face persecution in the hands of the Iranian government.

    For the reasons stated above I requested the Secretary of State to grant me full refugee status in the UK.

    Like

    Reply
  44. Chris Brooks Avatar
    Chris Brooks

    More here on Manchester from the student union paper:
    http://www.student-direct.co.uk/union/hard-left-suffer-crushing-defeat
    Certainly SWP-supported candidates were less successful in getting elected this year, but the vote was creditable, considering the SWP’s uneven success in building rank-and-file activity in the union, and in winning friends.

    Like

    Reply
  45. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    My apologies. I should have said. “They lost.” but the point is they have not gone from ‘strength to strength’. They are retreating into the same old pattern of behaviour and that does not help build alliances. But I think we agree on that point.

    Like

    Reply
  46. ajkdfjd Avatar
    ajkdfjd

    COMMENT REMOVED – SEE POLICY – LIAM

    Like

    Reply
  47. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Nas, unlike you I don’t see building a left alliance as a competition.

    TLC you seem very satisfied that Student Respect aren’t going from strength to strength. Do you want to rebuild the left or leave it to New Labour to pick over the bones?

    Like

    Reply
  48. DCM Avatar
    DCM

    To be honest Ray, I’m glad to be rid of these poisonous destructive types who hate the left more than they hate the right and do nothing but sit there moaning on blogs all day long – we are well rid.

    Like

    Reply
  49. cameron Avatar
    cameron

    The SWP’s response to the Manchester Uni elections.

    It’s a cracker.

    http://www.umsuactivist.org

    Like

    Reply
  50. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    Oh you are so silly Ray. I wanted Student Respect to do well but they were led by your fellow travellers who have mucked it up by failing to build their alliances in the most effective way.

    Stop throwing insults and start explaining why the strategy followed by your mates has handed victory to New Labour and the Zionists. This is NOT good news.

    Unless you learn from the past you will repeat the errors – and never fully build on the successes. But honest accounting, of strengths as well as weaknesses, is required not blethering on in the same old way where any criticism can be ignored because it is ‘sectarian’.

    As for DCM – you really need to think twice before you denouce people for ‘moaning on blogs all day long’. I don’t recall you doing anything other than moan.

    Like

    Reply
  51. cameron Avatar
    cameron

    Actually, TLC, the candidate ‘handed victory’ was a Green. Now I don’t care for Greens much, unlike most posters on this site, but apparently his politics are rather different to New Labour and the politics of Zionism.

    The document is so riddled with distortions and so out of proportion it simply shows the collective nervous breakdown which is gripping the SWP.

    Like

    Reply
  52. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    the candidate ‘handed victory’ was a Green

    TLC was talking about Manchester Uni, where Student RESPECT did zero postering until about two days before the election and were rewarded with zero seats.

    Like

    Reply
  53. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Once again the failure of the left to grow is blamed on the SWP. I’m flattered that your orientation is toward our strategy but I’d advise you, if you are truely interested in rebuilding the left rather than Trot bashing, to develop one of your own. We have yet to witness any positive contributions any of you have made to rebuilding the left.

    I remember when the left discussed neo-liberalism and the impact it’s had on the labour movement. Now this fine analysis has been replaced with Trot bashing by Renewal.

    This is a pity because without an analysis of neo-liberalism and the balance of class forces you are destined to either reassimilate into New Labour or disintegrate into irrelevance. Hardly a strategy that helps rebuild the left.

    Like

    Reply
  54. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    Interesting read Cameron! In my days at uni it only took NOLS to kick our butt. Now it seems the reactionaries in Labour have to team up with the Zionists and the Lib Dems. I’m sure they would’ve joined with the Tories if they weren’t such an irrelevance. Perhaps this is because the left in Manchester is stronger than you want to give it credit.

    Not sure why you’re so keen to gloat over socialist candidates being beaten by a caucus of reactionaries but this possibly links in with Renewels antipathy towards socialist candidates in London.

    Like

    Reply
  55. cameron Avatar
    cameron

    Well Ray in my day at uni, the SWP did not bloc with the Islamic Society (or try to) or regard it as part of the left.

    The Campaign Officer election I linked to was won by a Green. I doubt you/the SWP would normally bracket Greens as ‘reactionary’ (I remember the SWP once wanted to make an electoral pact with them), but your bizarre political trajectory leads you to this position.

    There was a turn out of less than 8% in the elections. Tell you something?

    I’m sure you will disagree, but the document I linked to is pure fiction. The third placed candidate isn’t even a supporter of Communist Students , though she campaigned on a left-wing platform. Probably on a platform not too dissimilar to what SWSS candidates would have stood on in your day on uni Ray.

    Let me assure you Ray I am not a supporter of Respect Renewal. I have much deeper political hostility to that project than I imagine you do. That they either excuse or seek to close down discussion of Galloway’s remarks on the Wright Show/demo tells me all I need to know about the political trajectory of that outfit. And to think the SWP too used to cover up his howlers.

    Like

    Reply
  56. Jim Page Avatar
    Jim Page

    Nominations now closed for GLA Elections.

    Any idea which left canddiates got their noninations in on time?

    Like

    Reply
  57. andyinswindon Avatar
    andyinswindon

    Cameron: in my day at uni, the SWP did not bloc with the Islamic Society (or try to) or regard it as part of the left.

    When was that?

    Certainly when I became a student in 1989 at Bristol Poly, we did work with the islamic society, and bloc with it on various issues.

    Like

    Reply

Leave a reply to tonyc Cancel reply

Trending