Liam redux

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A Bristol resident writes

I’ve spent a depressingly large chunk of my life sitting in meetings with other ageing white lefties. So last night’s Respect meeting in Bristol’s Easton Community Centre was something of a revelation. George Galloway joined a panel of local activists to deliver one of his trademark speeches – inspiring, fiery, and at times oddly intimate.…

Liam
2–3 minutes

I’ve spent a depressingly large chunk of my life sitting in meetings with other ageing white lefties. So last night’s Respect meeting in Bristol’s Easton RESPECT-0952 Community Centre was something of a revelation. George Galloway joined a panel of local activists to deliver one of his trademark speeches – inspiring, fiery, and at times oddly intimate. It was an excellent performance, but what struck me most about this rather special night was the make-up of the audience who came along to hear him.

RESPECT-0923 Something over one hundred and eighty people braved the cold to pack the Community Centre to overflowing. Of those, I would estimate that around half were non-white. Moslems, Sikhs, Somalis, Africans, and a host of others rubbed shoulders with white working class men and women. For many in the audience that I spoke to, it was their first political meeting. The atmosphere was terrific, the questions when they came were utterly unpredictable, and the mood was uplifting. And, just for once, I felt that I was at a meeting with real people – the sort of people, in fact, that we’ve been trying to reach for years.

And there’s the rub. George takes all sorts of flack, as often from the ‘left’ as from the bourgeois media. But when it comes to it he can attract the sort of audience for socialist and anti-imperialist ideas that most other speakers would happily die for. To make a simple comparison, when John Pilger spoke in Bristol last year at the Old Vic, his audience was predominantly white and white collar. And he was preaching to the converted. No disrespect to Pilger, who is also a fantastic asset to the movement, but George is capable of bringing socialism as a living idea to much broader sections of the population, galvanising many into political activity for the first time.

Last night’s meeting was the most exciting and uplifting political event I’ve attended in years. And it’s only the beginning. In Bristol, as in other cities up and down the country, Respect still has a long way to go. But we’ve taken a massive first step!

Jay Woolrich

www.bristolrespect.org

 

photos: Nigel Goldsmith, ©PhotoFiction.co.uk

54 responses to “A Bristol resident writes”

  1. charliemarks Avatar
    charliemarks

    I think Galloway has found his niche in the Talksport show. All politics was cut from his Big Brother appearance – it wasn’t what the programme-makers wanted, after all. It is true that he has great communicative skill, something that establishment MPs lack.

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  2. Spidered News Avatar
    Spidered News

    Great post.

    FYI, it is highlighted on http://www.spiderednews.com/GeorgeGalloway.htm

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  3. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    Does it not bother anyone here that this “report” smacks of hero worship and a cult of personality? I suspect I will be roundely beaten down for pointing this out per usual but c’mon! The great GG brings in the ethnic minority masses as opposed to those stupid old boring white activists – ugh!

    Visit my blog for an account of a community meeting that wasn’t based on the cult of personality but an actual community struggle in Hackney. We could use more organising of this sort and less of the starry-eyed celebrity non-sense that gets passed off for reports of “political” meetings on this blog.

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  4. Spanish comunist Avatar
    Spanish comunist

    TWP. You obviously don´t like GG and Respect. They are celebrating public meetings to improve their organization and they publicise their success.
    It´s necesary for any left group to engage in community struggles but that´s a different thing.

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  5. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    Did you read the post? It’s all about how brilliant GG is and has very little about the politics of RR, what their organisation does or what their supposed successes are other than that they have BME (Black and Minority Ethnic for lack of a better term) people at the meeting – the implication being that this fact alone makes it more progressive than a meeting that white people attend who may be trade unionists or activists. This is utter nonsense and simply adds to the apolitical nature of the “report” which tells us nothing other than how attached people are becoming to the Galloway personality cult on certain sections of the left – and perhaps for that reason alone it is a useful – if worrying – post.

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  6. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    Somehow TWP I don’t think people can really take you seriously. You criticise a report of a meeting for having very little about the politics of RR. Well so what? It wasn’t about the politics of RR. You have posted some photos of the Stop the war demo on your blog which have ‘very little about the politics of’ StWC. Should we therefore dismiss that post?

    You draw your OWN implications from what someone posts and then denounce them as ‘utter nonsense’. If we all took that debating style we would always win -but only ever convince ourselves.

    For example, in your picture post of the demo the only people you name are Mark Phipps and John McDonell. The implication of this is that you are becoming attached to the Phipps /McDonnell cult of the personalities and perhaps for that reason alone your pictures are a useful – if worrying – post.

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  7. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    No TLC – this blog has a history of these types of reports which claim that both Galloway and everything with RR is going swimingly. I know Liam and while I recognise that he was not the author, I would expect a greater standard than this kind of cult of personality nonsense. You see I used to know Liam before he stopped being critical of Galloway and before he made ridiculous claims about GG having a “good” record on LGBT rights when the proof is quite the opposite as Tatchell brilliantly highlighted in yesterday’s Comment is Free column (something which Liam and his SR comrades have so far refused outright to answer).

    This blog used to be a lot more analytical and a lot less “rah, rah” – that is what I am objecting to. This post is a perfect example of this celebrity hero worship that is an anathema to those trying to build the left in this country and has infected it for far too long whether Healy, Sheridan or Galloway.

    In addition there is a worrying continuation of earlier reports from meetings which continues to create a white/black divide and claim the BME community for RR’s own while dimissing the rest of us as boring old has-been white trade unionists who are some how less progressive as a result of being “white”. This type of racial argument is not helpful for building the left in Britain and doesn’t augur well for the future of RR if this now replaces the class arguments which are still relevant today and are the basis for any working class party to the left of labour.

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  8. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    TWP

    I think the trouble is those in RR don’t want to hear any criticisms of Galloway.

    Anything you, I or anyone else says will get dismissed and not taken on board. This is the case re Mehdi and the Wright Show interview. I am sure some of his supporters must feel some disquiet about that. The response though has been to say he has some quirky views, we are all trouble makers, try to spin what he said as acceptable etc. or that we are obsessed.

    Perhaps people behind the scenes people are addressing this. If so some more openness would be good. For RR to say they have concerns and will deal with it. That would go a long way to getting other lefties to want to work with them.

    Perhaps they don’t have concerns. Perhaps they feel the issues are not that important or worth making a fuss about. Who knows, because publicly its all very uncritical and smears, such as made about the ‘pink wing of the khaki brigade’ is pretty low.

    It just seems though that they are behaving in the way the SWP did before, dismissing critics .

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  9. RobM Avatar
    RobM

    Its quite simple- Jay’s report points out that the audience Galloway is able to pull, the audience at this particular meeting, is not the typical audience you get at lefty events. It is more diverse, more representitive of the working class as a whole and it is composed largely of people new to politics.
    You might think this is irrelevant but it looks to me like the sort of demographic the SWP has been chasing for years…
    How that creates a black / white divide is beyond me. The black / white divide in left-wing politics already exists when you look at the membership of most left-wing groups in Britain and find they are so much whiter than the communities they live and operate in. Hopefully the building of Respect as broad-based, left-wing party will start to address this issue.

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  10. Weary skeptic Avatar
    Weary skeptic

    I echo TWP’s disquiet. The Scottish experience is an education in the downside of having an eloquent front man who garners a lot of publicity. You do not have to be a post-Respect split Swip to find some of Galloway’s statements and actions questionable.

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  11. Liam Avatar
    Liam

    I find that a useful way of keeping my stress levels low is to avoid things that make me cross.

    Jay’s piece has a celebratory tone. If I’d been one of the people who put on that meeting I’d be pretty upbeat too. His branch has just gone through a very unpleasant split and it was not clear that it would survive. A group of people have stuck together and are getting stuck into local politics. That meeting was the result. It was good for their morale and an example to other Respect supporters. That’s justification enough for posting it.

    In different parts of the country Respect branches are having to rebuild themselves after the loss of many capable and experienced organisers. I disagree with GG on all sorts of things from embryo research to his remarks on Iran. The thing is that unlike any other figure who has split from Labour he is utterly committed to building a new party to its left. He puts his money where his mouth his and drives to Manchester or Bristol because Respect members there know that he will pull a crowd of socialist inclined people with who they want to engage and recruit. Look at Olivier Besancenot’s presence on Facebook and in the LCR’s publicity to see that they are doing something similar. It’s not uncommon for organisations to use their highest profile supporters to pull a crowd.

    As for the issue of “dismissing critics” – one does get the impression that a new hobby of “finding something controversial that GG said this week” is replacing stamp collecting and it’s a bit of a subsitute for thinking through the issues around what sort of working class political representation we should be trying to build.

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  12. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    C’mon Liam – is that really the best you can do is claim that people like myself on the far left who you know darn well are committed to building “working class political representation” are simply opposing Galloway as a hobby?

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  13. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    Liam

    As Tami says, thats unfair to dismiss us like that.

    You know I would really rather not post on what Galloway says, cos like you I try to keep my stress levels down by avoiding things that make me cross,but when he says the sort of thing he did about gays and Iran then I will say something.

    But I guess there is really no point trying to raise these issues with RR supporters . I feel sad about that as someone who is on the LP who would like to find an alternative.

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  14. Ray Avatar
    Ray

    I’m pleased that Renewal attracted so many who are opposed to the war and neo-liberalism but the attempt to claim that Renewal is the only organisation that is involving or attracting Black and Asian people is incorrect. It’s an attempt to dismiss the rest of the left as white, middle class liberals and that is a dishonest distortion.

    Celebrating the turn out is fair enough but why not act a little less hostile to the rest of the left? I realise it is based on the belief that only Renewal’s strategy of promoting Galloway is somehow tapping into issues that relate to oppressed minorities but that’s not a viable long term political strategy and the veneer of celebrity will wear thin if the politics aren’t there as has been the case with the LGBT community. It’s a risky game using a single success to dismiss the rest of the left as it distorts the influence and political strategy of the organisation.

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  15. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    I guess there is really no point trying to raise these issues with RR supporters . I feel sad about that as someone who is on the LP who would like to find an alternative

    I don’t think there’s any point in raising these issues as reasons for withholding support from RR with RR supporters: they’re not news, and we’ve all gone in with our eyes open. I also think criticising a remarkably successful meeting on the grounds that it wasn’t a completely different kind of meeting isn’t the best way to get a constructive discussion going.

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  16. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    why not act a little less hostile to the rest of the left?

    Does not condemning Jo Benefield for failing to call SWP floor speakers really constitute acting hostile to the rest of the left?

    I don’t know, what do other people think? It’s been a while since Liam had one of those polls up here…

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  17. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    Phil

    I didnt say anything about the meeting.

    And you are right, there is no point raising any concerns about galloway with RR. But when he smears anti war people as the pink wing (or some such words) of the pro war lot its pretty low.

    I am anti war, but I also think its important to speak out against the execution of gay people in Iran.

    I just thought RR would be different to the one with the SWP. One that could openly debate issues and not be defensive , as people seem about galloway.

    I thought it was about building links with the rest of the left.

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  18. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    We might take you more seriously, Stroppybird, if you and Tatchell actually bothereed to put in your own posts what people could do to help Mehdi Kazemi – maybe the address to send letters of protest to, etc.

    But no, instead you decide to make a hue and cry about Galloway again. You happily ignore the fact that Galloway stated his opposition to the death penalty and to Medhi Kazemi’s deportation (a deportation your Party’s leaders are happily arranging). He has also publicly condemned homophobia in Iran – as well as in Scotland, the US and other places.

    So when the leader of the Labour party uses part of his televised speech to the annual conference to tell people who have a problem with gays ‘to get over it, it’s nothing to do with you’ then perhaps you may have a claim for us to listen.

    But for Galloway not to point out, that the neo-coms beating the drum for war against Iran will not enlist the support of all sorts of causes (for which they care not one jot – witness the embrace of feminism prior to the liberation of Afghanistan) in their assault on Iran would be an even greater folly than ‘quoting’ official sources for the execution of these two men.

    Perhaps that was a mistake but you see most of us in RR have made our minds up about Galloway. We are simply not going to run around answering any and every jumped up bit of supposed outrage – especially from the likes of self-publicists like Tatchell.

    You may be looking for an alternative home to the LP but it seems that if you will never find one. Afterall why swap a party led by war-criminals and privatisers for one led by peace activists and socialists? If you haven’t got an answer to that question yet, then Liam, me or anyone else rushing into print to condemn Galloway over one interview is hardly going to convince you, is it?

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  19. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    And you are right, there is no point raising any concerns about galloway with RR.

    That’s rather specifically not what I said (I even used bold).

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  20. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    (COMMENTS WITH MORE THAN TWO LINKS OFTEN GET CAUGHT IN THE SPAM FILTER – LIAM)

    TLC

    “We might take you more seriously, Stroppybird, if you and Tatchell actually bothereed to put in your own posts what people could do to help Mehdi Kazemi – ”

    err, yes I have:

    http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/mehdi-kazemi-demo-still-on.html

    http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/update-on-mehdi-kazemi.html
    http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/mehdi-kazemi-gay-teenager-facing.html

    the posts give info about a demo, a petition , letters etc and where to find more info.

    I dont really want to regurgitate all this re what GG said. I have covered it on my blog. But he said he opposed Mehdi’s deportation because he was now at risk because of how he had been used in western proganda (see youtube clips on my site), not because gay people were executed. In fact he said gay people were NOT executed for being gay in Iran and that Mehdi’s boyfrined had attacked young men. The evidence is that is not the case.

    There are others facing deportation , and if Galloway had stated that gay people face execution and that is why they must not be deported it would have helped their cases.

    And yes I criticised Jacqui Smith for saying gay people are alright if the are ‘discreet’.

    Trouble is someone as prominent as Galloway has said on national TV that gay peopke are not executed fr being gay, only those who commit sex crimes (gay sex is a sex crime in Iran). That does not help future campaigns.

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  21. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    And its not one interview, the stuff about pink war mongers etc was on the demo and two seperate Wright show programmes.

    And fine, dismiss that I cant be convinced to join RR. Actually I might have been.

    oh and another defence is what about Saudi. well I posted on that and went on the demo , as did tatchell.

    I dont pick and choose where I criticise people. I also posted on a bishop lately who implied that gay people were not victims of the holocaust.

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  22. Sean Avatar
    Sean

    “I also posted on a bishop lately who implied that gay people were not victims of the holocaust”.

    the CoE’s knees must be knocking like castanets

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  23. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    TLC – You might actually want to read but Tatchell said:

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2008/03/galloways_iranian_propaganda.html

    The fact you are defending Galloway’s homophobic comments by calling Tatchell a “self-publicist” is rather laugable.

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  24. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    Stroppybird. I don’t know why you think I need the link. I’ve read the post on both CiF and repeated on your blog and you do NOT tell us how to get involved to help this man – you just go on about Galloway.

    When this story was posted on the SUN site it was to advertise a protest to stop a deportation. You just post someone else’s diatribe with no guide to action.

    But, you see, anyway I don’t believe his comments were homophobic. They may have been mis-judged but even that is debatable. But to describe them as ‘homophobic’ is to demean the termso much as to make it almost meaningless.

    And Tatchell is a self-publicist whose been running this little battle with Galloway for years. It’s dull but there’s always some fool willing to take it up.

    But there we have our disagreement and my main point remains. I see little point trying to convince you about RR when you are happy to stay in a party led by war-criminals. It would appear that you clearly prefer the company of a party whose leaders witch-hunted Peter Tatchell. Still, your choice.

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  25. Matt Sellwood Avatar
    Matt Sellwood

    I have to say, I also find this deeply sad and depressing. I had hoped that (while I am in another party and quite happy there) RR would be easier to work with than the old Respect or the current Left List. But the dismissal of peoples concerns about Galloway makes me think that ‘the new boss is the same as the old boss’. i.e. Galloway calls the tune and no-one can admit that he has made a mistake.

    Lest we forget what we are talking about, he accused an oppressed, executed victim of committing sex crimes, with no evidence. That’s not just a bit off-the-wall – it’s utterly reprehensible. Why the difficulty in admitting that what he said was wrong?

    Matt

    P.S. You can sign a petition against the deportation of Kazemi here: http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/petition-for-mehdi-kazemi-europe-must-stop-deportation-of-iranian-queers/

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  26. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    I have linked to three posts , Not just the last one that is a cut and paste from tatchell.

    They do publicise the demo, petitions etc.

    If you look at all three, even just skimming you will find that I do tell people how to get involved. In fact the first post was about the demo.http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/mehdi-kazemi-gay-teenager-facing.html

    Fine, argue about the other stuff, but it is untrue to say I did not publicise action people could take. i also reminded people the demo was still on.

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  27. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    I also linked to the petition and a webiste run by LGBT Iranians with further info.

    The first post was not about Galloway at all but the demo.

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  28. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    TLC

    i think you just read the last post, which was from Cif.

    Look at the other two linked and you will see I have publicised action.

    I dont want to keep on about this, but it is misrepresenting the posts on my site as i did about three on Mehdi. I plugged the demo twice, the petition etc.

    We can argue about menaing of what GG said, but the content of my posts clearly do publicise action and you are nisrpresenting me.

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  29. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    Matt: “the dismissal of peoples concerns about Galloway makes me think that ‘the new boss is the same as the old boss’. i.e. Galloway calls the tune and no-one can admit that he has made a mistake.”

    Where do you see this? Liam’s specifically said he disagrees with Galloway on Iran.

    I’ll say it again: raising problems with Galloway as reasons for not supporting RESPECT isn’t going to get you very far with RESPECT supporters. That doesn’t mean RESPECT supporters don’t take those issues seriously – it does mean that we’ve already decided they can be addressed without breaking with RESPECT. (Of course, we may turn out to be wrong in that, in which case you may feel free to tell us you told us so.)

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  30. stroppybird Avatar
    stroppybird

    “I’ll say it again: raising problems with Galloway as reasons for not supporting RESPECT isn’t going to get you very far with RESPECT supporters. That doesn’t mean RESPECT supporters don’t take those issues seriously – it does mean that we’ve already decided they can be addressed without breaking with RESPECT. ”

    ok, genuine question. How are you addressing them?

    And im not trying to point score, I am interested in how you are doing this.

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  31. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    Let me give all of you RR supporters an example. I work with a guy named Rob at my university. He’s a gay man and Galloway is his MP. He has written Galloway on numerous occasions about issues with LGBT right and abortion as well. He has received not one response to date and is ashamed that Galloway is his MP.

    My question is – how do people like Rob – a gay man, an LGBT activist and a community member in Tower Hamlets(who is also strongly opposed to the war as well) – get represented by someone like Galloway. The answer is that they don’t. For all of the posts we get telling us about the great meetings that are going on, there is no attempt to address sexism and now open homophobia of Galloway by the members of RR.

    Is Rob not also the type of person that RR are seeking to recruit?

    Finally, I have said it before and will say it again – myself and Stroppy are in the LRC – you all know this. You know which MPs are associated with the LRC and their records are impecable on both war and LGBT and women’s rights. So banging on about Gordon Brown and New Labour and how we all supposedly support him is a perfect way to deflect from the fact that your MP has a less than gleaming record on all issues concerned.

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  32. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    ok, genuine question. How are you addressing them?

    How am I, Phil Edwards, addressing my numerous areas of disagreement with George Galloway, MP and leading spokesperson for an organisation I support but haven’t yet got round to joining? For what it’s worth, mainly by trying to keep a constructive and civil discussion going on left blogs. It’s not much of a strategy, but I think it’s got a better chance of helping leftists in RESPECT to express themselves than attacking the entire project they’re committed to and then complaining that they don’t listen to criticism.

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  33. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    twp77, on March 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm Said:
    Finally, I have said it before and will say it again – myself and Stroppy are in the LRC – you all know this. You know which MPs are associated with the LRC and their records are impecable on both war and LGBT and women’s rights.

    Just out of curiosity, I started to look them up and discovered David Drew MP for Stroud (who I must admit I’d never heard of, but he is listed as an LRC supporter at http://www.l-r-c.org.uk/links/#mps)
    and discovered he doesn’t have an “impeccable” record at all on LGBT rights.
    http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpid=1850&dmp=826

    especially compared to a certain other person …
    http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpid=1405&dmp=826

    Would you care to rephrase that to reflect the actual position?

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  34. Matt Sellwood Avatar
    Matt Sellwood

    But we’re not attacking the entire project. We’re making a completely legitimate criticism of one of the projects spokespeople. I know that in the unlikely situation that Caroline Lucas smeared a dead man by accusing him of sex crimes, I’d have a great deal to say about it – despite her importance to the Green Party.

    Having said that, I take your point, Phil. If people really are acting internally to deal with these issues, then fair enough. I understand the desire not to publicly criticise other members of ones own party. So I guess I will take it on faith that people within RR that I have a lot of time for (like Liam) are making these points strongly but in private.

    Matt

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  35. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    twp77, on March 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm Said:
    Finally, I have said it before and will say it again – myself and Stroppy are in the LRC – you all know this. You know which MPs are associated with the LRC and their records are impecable on both war and LGBT and women’s rights.
    ———————
    Just out of curiosity, I started to look them up and discovered David Drew MP for Stroud (who I must admit I’d never heard of, but he is listed as an LRC supporter at www dot l-r-c dot org dot uk) and discovered he doesn’t have an “impeccable” record at all on LGBT rights.
    If you go to www dot theyworkforyou dot com you can look it up (sorry the spam filter threw it out when I pasted the link.) He’s voted four times against legislation for lgbt rights whereas Galloway has never voted against it.

    Would you care to rephrase your statement to reflect the actual position rather than what you assume to be true?

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  36. modernityblog Avatar
    modernityblog

    what is really peculiar is that past critics of Galloway are now his strongest defenders

    despite all of the dodgy borderline comments the Galloway makes he will be excuse nearly everything by RRers simply because of his “anti-imperialist credentials”

    instead of ‘my country right or wrong’, RRers are left arguing ‘George Galloway right or wrong’

    I’ll bet in a few years time, when Galloway is out of the picture, sunning himself in his Portuguese villa and counting his bank balance that RRers will say something like “well, at the time we all knew he was very iffy but we had to defend him for the sake of the Party/the Cause” etc

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  37. twp77 Avatar
    twp77

    I don’t know who David Drew is either but I was speaking of the LRC MPs that people know – Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell to name two. Thanks for highlighting Drew’s record though as I am certainly going to look into this and raise it at the next LRC NC.

    As you’ll note from Peter’s cif column, the reason Galloway never voted against these measures is because he didn’t turn up.

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  38. charliemarks Avatar
    charliemarks

    Jeremy was great when he was on the Sky papers review at night. And John McDonnell is a wonderful public speaker and came across really well when he was doing the media rounds as part of his push to challenge Brown for Labour leadership… Do you reckon that the LRC/Campaign group will have dialogue with Compass in an effort to establish a broader left within Labour?

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  39. Louise Avatar
    Louise

    I disagree with GG’s position on lots of things, he is not on my Xmas card list but the fact he was able to pull in 180 people says something and I think that’s commendable and shows a level of pragmatism. I just hope RR can build upon that momentum and turn it into activism. Only time will tell.

    As for the report, it just shows someone who felt very positive about the experience. I will say, so what? If you haven’t been to a meeting for ages that hasn’t drawn a crowd, feeling the left is taking a nose dive and feeling politically marginalised. And then you attend a meeting that draws 180+ people then yeah, I can see the excitement. Good for them..

    The other issue is that if these meetings draw people into activism, then we should be pleased . Whether it is listening to GG, involvement in community based activism, trade union struggle and so on.

    The Left is small, fractious and fragmented. And any potential for building the left should be supported instead of constant criticism. That means working with groups and orgs we have disagreements with and that’s the reality we do have to work together to build the left. The usual ways of bringing people into left politics has shifted and changed. We do need to think of different ways of drawing people in.

    And the constant criticism can do damage, and be counterproductive ‘cos if you want people to rethink their political ideas or to change their minds then you debate those ideas in a more constructive way.

    As a supporter of the LRC, trade unionist and a Labour leftie, I know who I dislike more…and that’s Gordon Brown and all the other NL cold-eyed apparatchiks who are selling off the welfare state, and who worship at the altar of private equity. Criticise GG (and there’s a hell’va lot to criticise him about) but remember who the real class enemies are….

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  40. Liam Avatar
    Liam

    Thanks for a bit of sense Louise.

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  41. Louise Avatar
    Louise

    “Do you reckon that the LRC/Campaign group will have dialogue with Compass in an effort to establish a broader left within Labour”?

    Charlie: I have my own concerns about Compass (would proceed with caution) but the point of politics is to win people around and I don’t see why entering into dialogue with Compass would be a very bad thing. Doesn’t mean we wouldn’t criticise them if we need to.

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  42. andyinswindon Avatar
    andyinswindon

    Thanks Louise. For very sensible points. Though as you know I have a much more positive view of Compass than you do.

    Tami, the fact that you haven’t heard of David Drew says more about you than him i am afraid. he was very good over the Iraq war, and is quite a well known left MP.

    He was one of the earliet supporters of John McDonnell’s campiagn, and is a stauch socialist and is I believe a devoted Christian.

    It doesn’t surprise me about his issue on LGBT issues, after all the Labour left is much less homogenous than you make out, as I have repeated time and time again, we should remember that Eric Heffer (who so may of us loved) was anti-abortion.

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  43. andyinswindon Avatar
    andyinswindon

    Prinkipo exile – never heard of David Drew !!!

    And I thought you were the virtually the oracle.

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  44. TLC Avatar
    TLC

    I’ve been out to a meeting and come back to see we are not that much further forward. I apologise to stroppy for not reading her other posts but if you are going to simply cut and paste Tatchell – with an appeal for RR members to hold Galloway to account – don’t expect people to go looking for other more constructive posts.

    And really just because you can claim membership of the LRC doesn’t really excuse the fact that your Labour Party subs support a bunch a war-criminals at the head of your party. A party that shows no sign of holding its own leaders to account for anything.

    And once more for the record, Galloway’s comment’s are NOT homophobic. You make the term meaningless and do the cause of LGBT rights no service by this accusation. But on this we are clearly not going to agree.

    And finally, Moderinty, stop telling us we’ll all regret it in the future, etc etc. Leave the ‘I told you so’s to the future. Crystal balls make poor political compasses.

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  45. Clive Searle Avatar
    Clive Searle

    “How am I, Phil Edwards, addressing my numerous areas of disagreement with George Galloway, MP and leading spokesperson for an organisation I support but haven’t yet got round to joining?”

    Yes Phil, I’ve been meaning to ask you about that. How about popping along to our branch meeting next Thursday at the Saffron?

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  46. charliemarks Avatar
    charliemarks

    I think we all have to remember in the coming months that we are essentially on the same side. In other words, less bitching on blogs goddamn it. I see another thread like this one I’ll tear my eyelashes out with rusty pliars!

    I mentioned Compass earlier because of the critique of Scottish Labour that was issued by Compass north of the border in the run up to the party’s conference. The papers hyped it as a push from Old Labour, lefties, blah-blah. But New Labour is out of power in Scotland, it’s leader Wendy Alexander in a really weak position. The folks at Compass might learn the error of their ways – now it’s clear Brown’s no less of neoliberal than Blair… Compass and the Campaign group / the LRC have to be already in dialogue, surely?

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  47. Sean Avatar
    Sean

    twp said “I don’t know who David Drew is…”

    The LRC is supported by 9 MPs and members of the organisation can’t even be bothered to find out who those 9 people are – maybe the list of supporters is just too long. Oh well, after twp has “raised it” at the next LRC National Committee the list of MP supporters could well be reduced to 8.

    While she’s at it perhaps she can “raise” how useful it was for the Southwark & Lambeth LRC to organise a public meeting this week with our old friend Ted Knight on the platform.

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  48. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    TWP – sorry I should have made my wording clearer.

    Galloway has voted six times in parliamentary votes defined as being “agree” with “homosexuality – equal rights” by theyworkforyou dot com. This included a reduction in the age of consent for gay men, prohibition of homosexual bullying in schools, and the right for a gay couple to adopt children. For all other votes he was absent but did not vote against. David Drew voted five times in favour of various lgbt measures and five times against, with only a few votes missed. Included in this was voting against the lowering of the age of consent (the same one Galloway was in favour). His most recent vote was in 2007 when he voted AGAINST the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007, where he was one of only 10 Labour MPs voting against (most of whom seem to have a strongly Catholic background I think).

    Galloway is summarised as “Voted moderately for equal gay rights”, while Drew is summarised as: “Voted moderately against equal gay rights”. It may not be the message you want to hear but it appears to be true.

    As another poster has pointed out, there are only 9 MPs sponsoring the LRC so it is not unreasonable to expect to know what their positions are. Four of them are longstanding stalwarts of the Campaign Group (Corbyn, McDonnell, Lynne Jones and Wareing, though even Bob Wareing also voted against lowering the age of consent). The other five I am less familiar with (‘fraid so Andy, not everyone is all knowing!). But there seem to be a whole host of strongly socialist names from the Campaign Group – Alan Simpson for example – who are missing from support. Why is that?

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  49. Kevin Ovenden Avatar
    Kevin Ovenden

    I, for one, hope there’s not some bloodletting in the LRC over David Drew’s position.

    Several people above have made the point that the left is fractious, fissiparous, and far less effective than it ought to be.

    By all means seek to persuade David Drew, but I really cannot see the point of sloughing him off or running some sort of campaign against him.

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  50. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    I agree Kevin – he is an anti war MP and for that he must be supported. There are so few moderately decent MPs that one must defend support them, warts and all. What I was disagreeing with was TWP’s false characterisation of the LRC as being always better than the alternatives, including Respect.

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  51. Sean Avatar
    Sean

    I also agree with Kevin. David Drew is an MP who should be defended on a whole raft of issues. We should of course be trying to convince him that his view on the equalisation of the age of consent needs to change.

    I was simply seeking to suggest that the kind of “something must be done” and the “I’m going to look into this and raise it” brand of politics which is all too prevalent on these blogs is facile

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  52. andyinswindon Avatar
    andyinswindon

    To be fair Prinkipo, I only know about David Drew because he is from the West Country.

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  53. Kevin Ovenden Avatar
    Kevin Ovenden

    Prinkipo

    Sure – I agree with that. There’s a deeper issue at stake, isn’t there?

    Are objectives such as gay liberation to be this that we fight for in the course of manifold struggles? Or are they to be wrenched from social processes, held up as articles of faith and deployed inauthentically as points of division, the better to separate the pure from the impure?

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  54. charliemarks Avatar
    charliemarks

    Perhaps Galloway thought Mehdi’s boyfriend was one of the two men executed in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Asgari_and_Ayaz_Marhoni

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