You post about one thing, like a report of a meeting in Bristol describing how a Respect branch is successfully rebuilding itself, and the discussion moves onto something else completely, such as just how horrid George Galloway is. Funny that.

I’ve watched three Youtube clips of George Galloway including the interview.

In the first one he let slip his secret religious side. He doesn’t like the idea of scientists or politicians playing god. He certainly kept quiet about being a Catholic. You don’t want any papists with their rosary beads and incense in left organisations and we can expect someone to demand that the Marxists in Respect earn their atheist spurs by raising the matter at the next National Council and getting a resolution on the conference agenda denouncing this backwardness. He mentioned too that he’s against the monarchy. He wants a republic. That might be controversial in some Labour Party circles. Newham Labour Party displayed a picture of Elizabeth Windsor in its bar and even with the amount of drink that used to be consumed there no one vandalised it.

The interview in which he referred to the execution of Makvan Mouloodzadeh and the deportation of Medhi Kazemi lasts just over one minute and he makes the following points. Feel free to comment on any nuances that slipped by me.

  • In part the story was being used as ongoing propaganda against Iran, with the implication that this is part of the psychological preparation for an attack on Iran that he believes is being prepared.
  • He said that the papers imply you get hung in Iran for being gay but that’s not true and Mouloodzadeh was hung for committing sex crimes against young men.
  • He is against execution for any reason in any place.
  • In his view Medhi should not be deported, not least because he will be accused of being the source of the anti-Iranian propaganda.
  • He concluded by referring to the deportation, by a Labour government, of a woman being treated for cancer who died a short time after because she could not afford medical care in Ghana.

In the third interview he says that “all religions and many countries are against gay people. Oppression of gay people is true in Texas and Tehran because all religions and all societies discriminate against gay people.”

From these points the myth of Galloway the ayatollah homophobe is being spun but it does not stand any real scrutiny. The bit where he says he’s not homophobic and the hectoring of an anti-gay caller on his radio show prove that. If for example, Ruth Kelly, had said she’s against the deportation of asylum seekers, against capital punishment, against homophobia and imperialist war, in favour of a republic and that all religions are anti-gay Labour’s left would have a new heroine. Instead lots of people who are critical of, or hostile to, the construction of a class struggle left of Labour Party endless parse every public utterance from George Galloway to wilfully misrepresent his views.

The war on Iraq was prepared for with a drip of horror stories about the crimes of Saddam Hussein and his regime and we were invited to accept an imperialist war as a solution to this evil. Not much intellectual sophistication is required to oppose both homicidal dictators and homicidal Labour governments and you’d have to be fairly dim not to have realised that their was a connection between liberal imperialism’s sudden concern for the Iraqis it had blockaded for a decade and the upcoming invasion. Any planning for an attack on Iran is certain to have a section devoted to the media policy and that policy will include things that are true, like Makvan Mouloodzadeh’s execution and things that are false.

Iran, like many other parts of the world, might not be an easy place to be out and gay but there is nothing in its penal code to say it’s a hanging offence. The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) writes “that despite an order by the Iranian Chief Justice to nullify his death sentence, Mr. Makvan Mouloodzadeh was executed in Kermanshah Central Prison”. Its description of the case :

Mr. Mouloodzadeh was a 21-year-old Iranian citizen who was accused of committing anal rape (ighab) with other young boys when he was 13 years old. However, at Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s trial, all the witnesses retracted their pre-trial testimonies, claiming to have lied to the authorities under duress. Makvan also told the court that his confession was made under coercion and pleaded not guilty. On June 7, 2007, the Seventh District Criminal Court of Kermanshah in Western Iran found him guilty and sentenced him to death. Despite his lawyer’s appeal, the Supreme Court upheld his death sentence on August 1, 2007. The case caused an international uproar, and prompted a letter writing campaign by IGLHRC and similar actions by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Outrage! and Everyone Group.

In response to mounting public pressure, and following a detailed petition submitted to the Iranian Chief Justice by Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s lawyer, the Iranian Chief Justice, Ayatollah Seyed Mahmoud Hashemi Shahrudi, nullified the impending death sentence of Mr. Mouloodzadeh. In his November 10, 2007 opinion (1/86/8607), the Iranian Chief Justice described the death sentence to be in violation of Islamic teachings, the religious decrees of high-ranking Shiite clerics, and the law of the land.

In accordance with Iranian legal procedure, Mr. Mouloodzadeh’s case was sent to the Special Supervision Bureau of the Iranian Justice Department, a designated group of judges who are responsible for reviewing and ordering retrials of flawed cases flagged by the Iranian Chief Justice. However, in defiance of the Chief Justice, the judges Ama Sumanidecided to ratify the original court’s ruling and ordered the local authorities to carry out the execution.

In a formal sense George Galloway was right in saying that the legal basis of the execution was rape. Maybe he should have added that it was a breach of Iranian legal procedure and that the Iranian Chief Justice described the death sentence to be in violation of Islamic teachings. Perhaps he should have done more background research into the details of the case. Did he support the execution? Could you construe that he wants to hang gay people? Not even his worst enemy could claim that, though some hint it with no great subtlety.

What is George Galloway’s view on the deportation of an asylum seeker by a Labour Home Secretary? The unprincipled rogue is opposed to it and then dares criticise Jacqui Smith for passing a slow death sentence on Ama Sumani who had malignant myeloma, a crime which pro-Labour writers don’t mention much and for which one of their members bears direct personal responsibility.

By way of shifting Socialist Resistance’s position on LGBT rights from under the bushel where it’s usually stored here is a passage from the upcoming issue of our new magazine and which has been on our Facebook site since day one.

Socialist Resistance stands in opposition to racism and Islamophobia and to the oppression of women, lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people and disabled people. We believe that the most effective way to fight these forms of discrimination is through the coming together of those who directly experience them.

For those of you who want the closest we’ve come to expressing a collective view about the defeat of the Iranian revolution here is an article I wrote a while back.

77 responses to “Galloway "the ayatollah homophobe"”

  1. Where to begin?

    I am saddened but not altogether surprised to read Liam’s defence of George Galloway’s performance on Channel 5’s “The Wright Stuff”. I feared that this was the trajectory. Though curiously I found no mention of the other appearance on a subsequent edition of the same programme where Mr Galloway cast a slur on Peter Tatchell, who for all his faults (and, yes, he is an incorrigible self-publicist, but in this instance he is hardly alone) continues to oppose the occupation of Iraq and remains solidly against an attack on Iran. To label him and Mehdi Kazemi’s supporters more generally as ‘the pink contingent in the khaki war machine’ not only peddled a falsehood, but in my view pandered to homophobia – and I suspect not unconsciously.

    I did see the YouTube clip of this second Channel 5 appearance and I gather, though I did not hear this part of his speech, that Galloway repeated his slur from the platform at Trafalgar Square at the 15 March Stop the War demo.

    At the very least I would have hoped that a revolutionary socialist (who is still associated with a tendency on the British far left with a commendable record of actively supporting the fight for LGBT rights and attempted to do so at some cost even in Respect at its November 2005 conference) would have publicly distanced her/himself from the comment and further suggested that her/his member of parliament retract the remark and offer some form of apology to Tatchell in particular and LGBT opponents of imperialism’s wars more generally.

    But instead we are treated to an erudite consideration of the Iranian penal code regarding male homosexual activity in what I could only read as an attempt to persuade the reader that Galloway was technically correct. Curiously enough, though, there have been numerous well-documented, apparently state sanctioned executions of gay men, essentially for being gay men, in Iran in recent years, so the penal code, whatever its precise content, seems to afford them little or no protection.

    Ironically, the only paper that really went to town on the Kazemi case was “The Independent”, which has been the most consistent organ of opposition within the capitalist media to the Iraq war with coverage from the likes of Robert Fisk and Patrick Cockburn and where even the ‘B-52 liberal’ Johan Hari has recanted his earlier support for the invasion. Of course, that does not exclude the possibility that “The Independent’ will turn into a purveyor of vile anti-Iranian propaganda to whip up liberal support for the next war in the Persian Gulf, but somehow I don’t think that the most likely of scenarios.

    Indeed, Galloway could have pointed to the hypocrisy of a British government that purportedly claims to care deeply about oppression, homophobic or otherwise, in Iran, but was on the brink of deporting a potential victim of that regime back to Tehran. He could also have mentioned the long-trailed plans to deport large numbers of ‘failed’ asylum seekers from Iraq or, alternatively, reduce them to destitution. Suffice it to say that was not the man’s approach.

    Of course, Galloway did mention the barbaric treatment meted out by the New Labour Home Office to Ama Sumani. But the Labour Party members who have dared to find fault with George Galloway and on whom you pour such vitriolic scorn are people who I know campaign very openly for the rights of refugees. State racism may indeed have become even worse under New Labour, but Liam and I both know that in the days when we both carried Labour Party cards that the party we ostensibly supported had in government backed virginity tests for Asian women arriving in the UK (Callaghan, 1978, if memory serves) and in opposition had backed the retention of the PTA and a whole range of repressive measures in the six counties (never mind that Wilson sent the troops into Belfast in 1969).

    There is a genuine debate to be had about whether there is any mileage left in socialists continue to wage a fight within Labour’s ranks, but the reality remains that Respect Renewal is far from being any sort of mass organisation and it is hugely disheartening to me, at least , to see Liam and many of his co-thinkers become all too much like the SWP when it effectively suppressed all criticism of Galloway within Respect’s ranks and accommodated to a number of his less than progressive and in some instances socially reactionary positions.

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  2. Excellent post, Liam. Can we please hear from the likes of George B which contemporary Labour politician has paid a price for their support for gay rights?

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  3. “but in my view pandered to homophobia – and I suspect not unconsciously.”

    Wonderful, another person who can read minds. Really this site is being visited all sorts of psychics these days.

    As for apologising to Tatchell – don’t make me laugh. The man has shown he is quite capable of allowing his raging islamophobia to be used for dodgy purposes – don’t forget he how he appeared on the platform back in 2007 at the “Freedom of Expression” rally which had the support of the British National Party and Civil Liberty (whose director is Kevin Scott, a BNP organiser and candidate at the 2005 general election) .

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  4. it is noticeable that once supporters of LGBT and women’s rights began to question Galloway’s dodgy comments that they became subjected to attack themselves

    the shabby treatment of Peter Tatchell is just one example

    Tatchell is an outstanding campaigner for human rights, who puts himself in harms way for his principles and yet because of his criticism of Galloway and others Peter Tatchell is now ridiculed as an ‘Islamophobe’, when obviously he isn’t

    but Tatchell does have a strong commitment to LGBT rights which must annoy his critics no end

    He deals with the March for Free Expression rally here, http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2006/03/free_speech_and_leftwing_lies.html

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  5. It was technically correct before their release to claim that the Birmimgham Six were imprisoned for life for pub bombings but any socialist worth their salt knew this to be a lie.
    It doesn’t take a lot of research to discover that the Iranian state is deeply homophobic and has executed gay men under the pretext that they have been involved in so-called “sex crimes”.
    The arguement that we must avoid criticism of Iran at all cost because of the risk of an imperialist invasion is akin to the arguement that we must oppose the liberation of Tibet in case this empowers Western imperialism.
    Before the West invaded Iraq we criticised Saddams treatment of the Kurds. Socialists should never parrot the propaganda of oppressors as a defence against imperialism. We can fight against imperialism and still be critical of the oppressive nature of a regime.
    It’s no help using the, “your party is just as bad, so how can you criticise us?” defence because two wrongs don’t make a right.

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  6. those video clips of Galloway’s comments can be seen here, http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/gallway-and-the-colour-pink/

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  7. In third one, which I didn’t watch yesterday, lacking the specialist knowledge of some commentators, he says “all religions and many countries are against gay people. Oppression of gay people is true in Texas and Tehran because all religions and all societies discriminate against gay people.”

    If I were Peter Tatchell I’d be pretty cross about being described as the “pink end of the khaki war machine”. It’s a clumsy and unfortunate way of pointing out that the liberal imperialists sometimes use civil liberties and human rights as part of their ideological toolkit as I remarked in the piece on Tibet.

    Even in this one, which is more bad tempered, I see no homophobia. Perhaps some feel that he should have used the entire slot to criticise the Iranians but my recollection is that it was taken for granted in the left and the anti-war movement that Saddam was a brute and we didn’t need to refer to it every time we spoke. What’s so different about Iran?

    For the record here’s a piece I wrote about the Iranian revolution a while ago.

    http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2005/11/01/the-iranian-revolution-socialism-and-theocracy/

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  8. For what it’s worth Modernity, I’ve always thought that Tactchell was a self-publicist rather than an ‘outstanding camapigner’ but we’ll just have to disagree on that one. I’d rather not comment on him at all – but since he’s the one pushing this absurd accusation of homophobia I felt the need to respond.

    The trouble is you think Galloway exhibits homophobia, I think Tatchell exhibits islamophobia. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. This argument is so utterly pointless because we simply do not have equivalent understandings of the words.

    You say “but Tatchell does have a strong commitment to LGBT rights which must annoy his critics no end”. This means nothing unless you are trying to infer that his critics have either a less strong committment (and so feel guilty) or are indeed homophobic themselves. Is this the accusation you are now leveling at me?

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  9. Liam does not mention that Galloway is paid by Iran.
    Something that,given his previous record,is important.

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  10. Dustin the Turkey Avatar
    Dustin the Turkey

    It’s nice to see that despite the Respect split, that Liam, George and Lindsay agree on one thing; gays rights are a shibboleth. If the noble cause of anti-imperialism means acquiescing with the Iranian theocracy’s desire to hang gays from cranes, well, so be it. Far better that than give even the slightest criticism to the Iranian state, comrades.

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  11. Modernity:

    “it is noticeable that once supporters of LGBT and women’s rights began to question Galloway’s dodgy comments that they became subjected to attack themselves”

    The implication of this comment is that only Eustonite types like Modernity and other Islamophobes of the same ilk in any sense support women’s or LGBT rights. Of course that is complete nonsense.

    Liam

    “If I were Peter Tatchell I’d be pretty cross about being described as the ‘pink end of the khaki war machine’.”

    But it is reasonable criticism, a lot more reasonable that the smears of homophobia that Tatchell repeatedly flings around against other people who refuse to dance to his Islamophobic tune, as well as George. For instance his smears against Ken Livingstone as in some way homophobic for inviting Dr Qaradawi to London, when as some pointed out, Livingstone’s record on fighting for gay rights is just as good and maybe better than Tatchell’s own.

    Then there is Tatchell’s support for UN enforced no-fly zones in Sudan, which are a familiar device that could only be enforced by imperialist armies. Tatchell is not in favour of the immediate withdrawal of imperialist troops from Iraq, but rather a ‘timetable’ (phased withdrawal), dependent above all on defeating the existing Iraqi resistance.

    He – and Outrage – organised a well-publicised contingent on one of the STW demos a couple of years ago the whole point of which was to attack the demand for immediate withdrawal from Iraq. How is this anti-war? This confirms in my view that they give ‘pink’ cover to the machinations of imperialism.

    And its interesting that SWP types like Ray now find themselves defending Tatchell and increasingly agreeing with the likes of Modernity, whose usual abode is Harry’s Place. It just underlines their trajectory to the right, in the same direction as the likes of Matgamna, towards reconciliation with liberals who are soft on the imperilaist ideological crusade against Islam that justifies the ‘war on terror’.

    Its quite a leap for SWP loyalists from refusing to condemn 9/11 (incorrectly – neither George Galloway nor the MAB had any problem condemning this atrocity) to lining up with the likes of Modernity and Tatchell to attack Galloway over Iran. Matgamna’s AWL shows the likes of Ray their future.

    But that was always the real logic of the accusation of ‘communalism’ raised by the SWP last year. It means capitulation to an ideological offensive, which in case people haven’t noticed, is against Muslims and Muslim countries, not against gay rights.

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  12. Liam,

    This article is a shame, if you don’t think that condemning lgbt campaigners as the “pink fringe of the khaki war machine” deliberately plays to homophobia and deliberately misleads then it’s hard to know how to argue with you. Galloways claim is that lgbt campaigners 1) actually care nothing about lgbt rights, 2) are part of the war machine. Both of which are wrong.

    Of course all this flows from elevating the idea that the central ideological divide is opposition to US imperialism, and that anyone who does not put this to the forefront of their politics is a class traitor.

    Galloways position on Iran is appalling, from taking their money to supporting the regime and demanding that it is impossible to be on the left and criticise Iran. This is not anti-imperialism in any sense.

    Thankfully your socialist resistance comrades at NUT conference last weekend managed to sucessfully vote for a motion comdenming homophobia internationally, the SWP, CPB and Socialist Action demanded the right to abstain and have their abstentions minuted rather than vote for a motion which criticised Iran

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  13. ever wondered why the Left is so small?

    because of poor quality low-level discussions like this,

    once some of us dissent from the line of “Galloway is our hero, we’ll brook no criticism”, we are attacked, see Donovan’s ridiculous contribution

    can you imagine recruiting someone to Respect Renewal and saying “you can argue anything you like, but once you start criticising Gorgeous George, we’ll into pile to you”?

    which is all very peculiar because similar criticisms of Galloway were held by some of the key posters here, until comparatively recently

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  14. Liam:

    “Did of the case he support the execution?”

    What does this mean?

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  15. Modernity objects to being ‘attacked’, that is, criticised. It seems that the only criticism that is legitimate is that which comes from those opposed to George Galloway. Criticism from Respect supporters directed back at the critics (who are fundamentally wrong) is thereby deemed illegitimate.

    Respect have as much right to criticise others as anyone else. Those who issue misguided criticism can expect to be criticised in turn. We dont support the same project – that’s politics.

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  16. Liam

    This smacks desperately of apologetics from you. A good Thomist training is never wasted, it seems.

    In some states in the US, consensual heterosexual intercouse with a woman of 17 can constitute ‘statutory rape’, and that appears to be the sense in which GG uses the term here. Most of us wouldn’t see it like that.

    And you damn well know that the ‘pink fringe of the khaki war machine’ gag was intentionally homophobic; it’s difficult to see what other construction can be put on it.

    RR will eventually blow up; one day, GG will say something that is too much even for you guys to swallow.

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  17. “And you damn well know that the ‘pink fringe of the khaki war machine’ gag was intentionally homophobic; it’s difficult to see what other construction can be put on it.”

    Actually, there are plenty of other, more accurate, ‘constructions’ that can be put on it. But when you have a mindset that attached more credibility to what Conrad Black’s rags say than George Galloway in times passim, I don’t suppose spotting the obvious is exactly your strong point, Dave. If criticism of Tatchell’s Islamophobic proclivities is judged ‘homophobic’, then why not deem all criticism of say, Robert Mugabe, ‘racist’? Same approach.

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  18. let’s all remember Galloway’s comment:

    “Matthew Wright: His boyfriend was hung though, wasn’t he?

    George Galloway: Yes, but nor being gay. For uh, committing sex crimes, uh, against young men.”

    for the video clips, see http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/galloway-and-gay-sex/

    I wonder what mitigating spin will be put on Galloway’s nasty comments?

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  19. And the point is that gay people ARE executed for consensual sex in Iran.

    So what happens the next time we campaign to save someone from deportation. Will George again say Gays are not executed for being gay, weakening what should be a united camapign.

    Yes he was against the deportation, but he stated on the grounds that Mehdi was now at risk because of being used for propanda. Does that mean that if a gay man is deported back, no fuss made, then he will be safe ?

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  20. No need for any ‘spin’. Galloway’s views on gay rights (in favour of them), executions (against them) and deporatations of asylum seekers (against them) are all well known and a matter of public record. Spin is the art of taking something (e.g. these remarks) out of their context (i.e. countering war hysteria where a threat of war exists) and giving a false picture, in this case of Galloway’s views on gay rights. Spin is exactly what the Eustonite Modernity is doing here. On behalf of the general ‘left’ Islamophobe milieux, that loves up to the war-makers and endeavours to prove that they are ‘decent’, unlike Galloway and his terrible supporters.

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  21. In some states in the US, consensual heterosexual intercouse with a woman of 17 can constitute ’statutory rape’, and that appears to be the sense in which GG uses the term here. Most of us wouldn’t see it like that.

    I think I’d see non-consensual anal sex between 13-year-old boys as rape. Clearly it looks as if he didn’t do it – and even if he had done it it wouldn’t deserve the death penalty – but if the question is “was he executed for being gay?”, “no” seems like a more accurate answer than “yes”.

    And you damn well know that the ‘pink fringe of the khaki war machine’ gag was intentionally homophobic; it’s difficult to see what other construction can be put on it.

    ‘Pink’ is just being used as a shorthand for ‘gay’ here – is it ‘intentionally homophobic’ to refer to gay men’s spending habits as ‘the pink pound’?

    RR will eventually blow up; one day, GG will say something that is too much even for you guys to swallow.

    Yes, Galloway’s a loose cannon – this too is not news. I look forward to RR having an agreed body of policy and mechanisms for accountability – the latter in particular are an area of RESPECT that’s been woefully under-developed over the past few years. In the mean time, perhaps you could tell us your plan for the next time Gordon Brown says something that’s too much for you to swallow.

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  22. “However, I used to have a male partner whom I used to meet secretly. I was 15 years old when I started dating one of my class mates in school. His name was Parham. He was also Iranian and we used to spend a lot of time together. I had just turned 15 years of age when I found out that I was sexually attracted men. I was very scared of this feeling and did not tell anyone about it. Parham was my best friend and one day he told me that he was attracted towards men and not women. When he told me that I started feeling comfortable with him and decided to tell him that I felt the same, we were 15 years of age when we decided to start our relationship.

    We used to meet everyday in school and sometimes out side school in cinema or park. We started having sex about eight months after dating each other. We used to meet either in his house or my house when there was no one around.”

    http://www.irqo.net/IRQO/English/pages/43.htm

    Mehdi’s own account of the relationship. They were about 15/16 at the time. About the time lots of heterosexual people have sex as well.

    Seems pretty consensual to me.

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  23. Stroppy, you totally miss the point.

    Makvan Mouloodzadeh ws not charged with having sex with Mehdi. So the fact that he had consensual sex with mehdi is somewhat irrelevent to the fact that he was prosecuted for having non-consensual sex with someone else.

    Was he prosecuted for being gay? no.
    was he prosecuted for rape? yes.
    Was he guity? We don’t know, probably not.
    Even if he was guilty, should he have been executed? no.
    Does Galloway oppose executions of gay people in Iran? Yes.
    Does galloway oppose the deportation of Mehdi?yes.
    Is the oppression of gays in Iran being talked about by people who have no interest in the oppression of gays in Saudi Arabia or texas? yes.
    Is this part of a whispering campaign to demonise Iran as preparation for a possible military strike? yes.

    So what galloway said was correct

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  24. AndyInSwindon wrote:

    the fact that he was prosecuted for having non-consensual sex with someone else.

    how exactly do we know that, as FACT?

    we don’t

    there are no objective outside observers to confirm this

    all that you seem to be doing is taking the Iranian states ‘ propaganda at face value and parroting it here

    for all we know he was setup and you should openly acknowledge the Iranian regime’s hostility to LGBTers

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  25. So, what’s the planned launch date for ‘Gays for Respect Renewal’? Only asking, like.

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  26. (Phrase deleted – see policy Liam. That’s twice in one day TLC. NOT GOOD)

    Modernity. He WAS prosecuted and the charge was non-consensual sex with someone other than Mehdi. You don’t need an ‘objective outside observer’ to confirm this.

    Therefore it is true to say that ‘he was prosecuted for having non-consensual sex with someone else.’ it’s not propaganda it’s a fact.

    Now he may have been set up. He may have been framed. He certainly shouldn’t have been executed.

    But trying to deny the reality of a situation just so you can have a go at galloway is just plain daft. And more importantly diverts attention away from real homophobia, including that of the Iranian state, into your own petty little crusade.

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  27. Galloway said that gays are not at risk in Iran, in fact they meet for trysts. Jacqui Smith said that its ok for gay people as long as they are discreet.

    Galloway said he was against deportations , I dont dispute that. He also said that Mehdi is at risk because he is now part of the propaganda. He did not say he is at risk because he is gay.

    So the next time we have a gay man who is at risk of deportation and believes they will be excecuted because he is gay what do we do.

    Do we argue he is at risk because he is gay? ow do we deal with the fact that both galloway and Smith have said no.

    Do we keep quite in case we are used as propaganda?

    What should we do next time? Will RR and galloway support a call for someone to stay based on the fact they are gay?

    oh and talk of gay men abusing young boys is an old tactic to demonise gay men and is used by Iran. I would be wary of the accuracy of those chrages .

    The Iranian gay website I linked to talks about the risks. I would give lesbian and gay men more cridability than the Iranian legal system.

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  28. TLC,

    if you and others wish to repeat Iranian state propaganda, at least have the honesty to acknowledge that is what it is

    incidentally, I don’t know if you’ve considered this complex point, but if Galloway didn’t repeatedly make so many borderline comments then you wouldn’t have to defend it

    so the problem is really with Galloway

    I’m sure you feel uncomfortable defending this type of nonsense, and probably in another life you would have argued that leaders need scrutiny and control from below? except Galloway eh?

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  29. Last sentence was meant to be Iranian lesbian and gay men more credability.

    Or are they also part of the war machine?

    Should we not campaign for gay people who are at risk in Iran in case its used as propaganda?

    Personally faced with someone who risks execution I know what my conscience would dictate, and thats doing what I can to help them.

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  30. Oh and I would do the same with saudi re criticisms, before that diversion is brought up. As does Tatchell. I was on the saudi demo a while back, as was tatchell, Corbyn, McDonnell etc. I also posted on it.

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  31. http://www.irqo.net/IRQO/English/pages/3.htm

    This links to a page on the “Iranian Queer Organization” which outlines the “Islamic Republic of Iran’s punishment code on Homosexuality “. This includes executation for consensual gay sex as well as various other punishments.

    So technically being gay isnt a crime, but having sex is. Given that Mehdi had consensual gay sex then he is at risk of execution and this punishment is enforced.

    So nitpicking, being gay not a crime, but acting on it is.

    So Mehdi was at risk for being gay, for having a relationship and having sex with his partner. Or should he have been discreet ? Not had sex, lived a lie. Should we even be arguing the toss over the technicalities of a law that executes a man for having consensual sex with another ?

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  32. Comment deleted. See policy about abuse. Liam

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  33. Rifat Haq, who was 20, and her 13-year-old sister, Nazia, were apparently forced into marriage two weeks after their arrival in Pakistan in June 1995. Nazia, who was due to return to Hillhead secondary school in Glasgow at the end of the summer holidays, was drugged and forced to marry her father’s nephew, Mohammad Iqbal, whom she believed to be about 40.

    I had managed to meet only Rifat, but it was clear from what she said that she, her mother and her younger sister were all desperate to get back to Glasgow. At this point, there was very little I could do. I returned to Glasgow to tell the girls’ story. The Labour MP George Galloway was in Islamabad to receive an award from Benazir Bhutto’s government and I thought he might intervene on the girls’ behalf. He told me he could not get involved because the girls lived in another MP’s constituency. He suggested that I ask Sarwar if he could help. Twenty months later, Galloway told me he would always regret that suggestion.

    Mr Galloway’s business received over half a million pounds from the government of Pakistan

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  34. what’s the planned launch date for ‘Gays for Respect Renewal’?

    Who are you and what have you done with Dave Osler?

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  35. Oh what a pointless debate.

    “The real problem is Galloway” you say without any irony.

    No (phrase edited – see policy Liam), the real problem here is the British government who wishes to deport a young gay Iranian man to possible torture and the Iranian governemnt who may take part in said torture. The second issue is that this is beimg used by some who don’t give a damn about gay rights but you have decided to focus on someone who does. Your twisted logic defies credibility.

    Perhaps the real issue should be how you hold your own leaders to account – you know, the ones in your party that could halt this deportation today. No wonder you wish to focus on Galloway – it hides your own impotence.

    Still let’s leave this here. We shall not agree. You stick to your party led by war criminals and deporters to torture and death and I’ll stick to mine with leaders opposed to both war AND deportations.

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  36. By the way Liam.
    Galloway was not commenting on the case you cite.
    Check the names.
    Its a different man.

    The man in question was called Parham.
    And Galloway fabricated a case against him.

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  37. There are so many issues with Galloway. I won’t list them here as I am sure comrades are all aware of of what they are. Taking a tactical decison to ally with Galloway in a broad left formation is one thing. It is likely to do with size of your organsiation and reaching out to those socialist forces and others looking to a left alternative to Labour. There is nowehere else to go for such small groups aprt from propoganda work and taking aprt in campaigns and struggles which are at an all time low. It does not mean you habe to be an apoligist for some or all of Galloways failings. There is no need to jopin is fan club or become part of his publicity machine.

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  38. As someone else posted Galloway (just like Hatton and Sheridan) is a ticking time bomb, who sooner or later will make it even impossible for the likes of RR the rest part company.

    It’s only a matter of time…..

    And I’ll laugh my bollocks off.

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  39. Someone once sympathetic to SR Avatar
    Someone once sympathetic to SR

    Comment deleted. See policy on unattributable e mail address or identity. Liam

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  40. voltairespriest Avatar
    voltairespriest

    For God’s sake Liam, that post is desperate stuff. I’m sure in your hear of hearts you must realise what such frantic, transparently thin and overplayed “defences” of the indefensible look like. Galloway doesn’t just have religious beliefs, he thunders on about medical research legislation being “blasphemous” in a way that would gladden Jerry Falwell’s cold dead heart.

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  41. Where to start. This really is a depressing post

    Liam said:
    “If I were Peter Tatchell I’d be pretty cross about being described as the “pink end of the khaki war machine”. It’s a clumsy and unfortunate way of pointing out that the liberal imperialists sometimes use civil liberties and human rights as part of their ideological toolkit as I remarked in the piece on Tibet.”

    Liam, you appear to be so blinded in your desperation to build Respect that you have convinced yourself that this was merely a “clumsy and unfortunate” remark. Galloway is a seasoned orator, he knows the power of words, and has on numerous occasions employed his powerful oratory skills for progressive purposives. This was not one of them. It was a homophobic sneer directed at those who dare to raise the issue of gay rights in Iran. Is Respect so weak that in order to keep it together you have to excuse this, along with his sordid attempt to downplay the savage repression that gay men are subject to in Iran.

    How do you think we can build a strong united anti-war movement if we cannot be honest about the Iranian regime’s record (and yes, we can do this whilst exposing the hypocrisy of the warmongers when they dare to use human rights as a a justification for warmongering – its not difficult and easily understandable to the average punter).

    Why should we expect workers to support a movement that is incapable of raising basic demands of international solidarity with the Iranian workers movement, the most important workers’ movement in the Middle East. Building ties with progressive forces in opposition to the regime in the Middle East is the best way of building a strong and determined anti-war movement that can blow away the hypocrisy of the bourgeois critics of the Iranian regime. Instead we get craven apologists of the regime leading the movement. Iranians deserve better.

    Try listening to the speeches of Yassamine Maher on the HOPI site to get a flavour of a principled anti-imperialist who stands firmly in the camp of the Iranian working classed and oppressed groups.

    http://www.hopoi.org/resources.html#video

    Oh and Phil had this to say
    ‘Pink’ is just being used as a shorthand for ‘gay’ here – is it ‘intentionally homophobic’ to refer to gay men’s spending habits as ‘the pink pound’.

    Er yes, but when you are attacking someone, it becomes less benign doesn’t it.

    Lastly, Liam, your sarcasm is very much out of place. Young men are killed in Iran for the “crime” of being gay (however the Iranian courts want to dress it up). No one is accusing Galloway of being an “ayatollah homophobe” or wanting to change gay people. He stands accused of being an apologist for the regime and its actions, and of his homophobic comments. And rightly so.

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  42. Mistake in last paragraph so am reposting:

    Where to start. This really is a depressing post

    Liam said:
    “If I were Peter Tatchell I’d be pretty cross about being described as the “pink end of the khaki war machine”. It’s a clumsy and unfortunate way of pointing out that the liberal imperialists sometimes use civil liberties and human rights as part of their ideological toolkit as I remarked in the piece on Tibet.”

    Liam, you appear to be so blinded in your desperation to build Respect that you have convinced yourself that this was merely a “clumsy and unfortunate” remark. Galloway is a seasoned orator, he knows the power of words, and has on numerous occasions employed his powerful oratory skills for progressive purposives. This was not one of them. It was a homophobic sneer directed at those who dare to raise the issue of gay rights in Iran. Is Respect so weak that in order to keep it together you have to excuse this, along with his sordid attempt to downplay the savage repression that gay men are subject to in Iran.

    How do you think we can build a strong united anti-war movement if we cannot be honest about the Iranian regime’s record (and yes, we can do this whilst exposing the hypocrisy of the warmongers when they dare to use human rights as a a justification for warmongering – its not difficult and easily understandable to the average punter).

    Why should we expect workers to support a movement that is incapable of raising basic demands of international solidarity with the Iranian workers movement, the most important workers’ movement in the Middle East. Building ties with progressive forces in opposition to the regime in the Middle East is the best way of building a strong and determined anti-war movement that can blow away the hypocrisy of the bourgeois critics of the Iranian regime. Instead we get craven apologists of the regime leading the movement. Iranians deserve better.

    Try listening to the speeches of Yassamine Maher on the HOPI site to get a flavour of a principled anti-imperialist who stands firmly in the camp of the Iranian working classed and oppressed groups.

    http://www.hopoi.org/resources.html#video

    Oh and Phil had this to say
    ‘Pink’ is just being used as a shorthand for ‘gay’ here – is it ‘intentionally homophobic’ to refer to gay men’s spending habits as ‘the pink pound’.

    Er yes, but when you are attacking someone, it becomes less benign doesn’t it.

    Lastly, Liam, your sarcasm is very much out of place. Young men are killed in Iran for the “crime” of being gay (however the Iranian courts want to dress it up). No one is accusing Galloway of being an “ayatollah homophobe” or wanting to hang gay people. He stands accused of being an apologist for the regime and its actions, and of his homophobic comments. And rightly so.

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  43. Er yes, but when you are attacking someone, it becomes less benign doesn’t it.

    And it automatically becomes ‘homophobic’? I don’t see this at all. Galloway was attacking those specific gay people who are involved in a particular campaign, for their involvement in that campaign.

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  44. Tina – from my reading of a lot of the criticism of GG on this issue THERE has been an unconvincing but sustained attempt to label him a homophobe in particular by currents which are hostile to the Respect project, one of which has a very poor record in opposing the imperialist wars. That had to be answered and that is why I went through the contents of all three videos.

    Could he have been more critical of the Iranian regime?

    Certainly.

    His political tradition, which is not ours, tends to see the world as mutually hostile camps and that is apparent when he talks about Cuba, the Soviet Union and Iran. His “apology” for the regime was a failure to criticise it. Any regroupment which stretches even slightly beyond the Trotskyist left in Britain will inevitably draw into it militants who have been shaped by that Communist Party view of the world, including Labour Party activists.

    Some of this discussion seems strongly influenced by a neo-Cannonite version of denunciation and polemic. I’ve seen little evidence that this is an effective way of sorting out disagreements even in left groups. In a pretty small party with an assortment of political views it would be simply counter productive and would smash the organisation rather than politically educate it. That is what some of the participants in this discusion want. Not me.

    It is because we are a distinct current inside Respect with diverging views on a range of issues, including the autonomy of the oppressed, that SR is retaining its own website and journal. So, for example, the magazine has a four page article on abortion rights which would not command universal agreement inside Respect but it is possible to change people’s minds.

    The “pink contingent” is not I phrase that I would use and it would have been better if he hadn’t said it. However he used it on a programme in which he had, on a number of occasions, made explicit his own rejection of homophobia and in my judgement it’s a bit of a stretch to imply he was heading in that direction. It’s clear that others disagree.

    The reason I went into a fair amount of detail on the legal background to the case is that the execution seemed to be the result of a fight inside the Iranian judiciary and part of this fight seemed to involve making false allegations against the victim. It would have been better if GG had pointed this out. Maybe he didn’t know about it. Maybe it’s not so easy in a brief section of a TV programme. My set of rhetorical questions is directed at those who were implying that he in some way condoned the execution or that he is favour of anti-gay legislation. There is an undercurrent in some of the comments which implies this. No matter how much I disagree with a lot of what he says those charges are simply unsustainable.

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  45. you’ve got the wrong man Liam.

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  46. “Could he have been more critical of the Iranian regime?
    Certainly.”

    Perhaps the question ought to be rephrased:
    Should he have been more critical of the Iranian regime?
    Certainly.

    “His political tradition, which is not ours, tends to see the world as mutually hostile camps and that is apparent when he talks about Cuba, the Soviet Union and Iran. His “apology” for the regime was a failure to criticise it. Any regroupment which stretches even slightly beyond the Trotskyist left in Britain will inevitably draw into it militants who have been shaped by that Communist Party view of the world, including Labour Party activists.”

    Any mass movement will draw in those who are from different traditions, being able to work with them whilst criticising their politics is the ABC of building an independent and critically thinking movement, rather than defending the indefensible.

    “Some of this discussion seems strongly influenced by a neo-Cannonite version of denunciation and polemic. I’ve seen little evidence that this is an effective way of sorting out disagreements even in left groups. In a pretty small party with an assortment of political views it would be simply counter productive and would smash the organisation rather than politically educate it. That is what some of the participants in this discusion want. Not me.”

    You could accuse Galloway of the same given the way he deals with political “opponents” within the movement (there is of course a similarity between the muscular methods of stalinism and the whole International Committee tradition). You’d be on better ground criticising hyperbolic denunciations if you took a clear stance in distancing yourself from Galloway’s political shortcomings.

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  47. liams you deleted the whole of my comment for no reason whatsoever

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  48. Galloway has defamed an Iranian gay as a “sodomite” and suggested that he is guilty of rape, on the basis of *no* evidence. He is clearly a homophobe, who supports the anti-gay clerical-fascist regime in Iran just as he suppoted the genocidal Saddam Hussain’s Ba’thist regime in Iraq. the man is a totalitarian dicaotorship-worshipe and enemy of democracy.

    galloway also supports the most reactioanry manifestations of religion in public life, from his support for the Taliban, to his support for catholic opposition to tyhe Human Fertilisation and Embriology bill, on the ground that it perpetuates a “Godless” agenda by the Brown government: you don’t believe me? Read this: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/comment/columnists/lifestyle-columnists/george-galloway/2008/03/24/don-t-put-a-bet-on-des-s-conscience-86908-20360975/

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  49. Martin – the policy is as clear as I can make it. Stick within those boundaries and I don’t delete even the most critical of comments. Virtually every recent post has had a spectum of sympathetic, hostile and critical remarks but I will not let the personal abuse that destroys discussion on other sites happen here.

    EVERYONE ELSE – I’m leaving Jim’s post up unedited to prove a point. Your time on this earth is very short. Do you really want to piss it away by arguing with him? It’s pretty hard to take seriously the views of someone who embraces the emancipatory power of the United States Air Force or the CIA.

    “If it were possible to imagine some “surgical” operation that would stop Iran’s hideous regime acquiring nuclear weapons, and take out the foul Ahmedinejad, it would be good. The fact that Bush is threatening Iran doesn’t mean that the Iranian regime itself is not a threat.

    But then it would have been good if some “surgical” operation could have taken out Saddam Hussein without harming Iraq.”

    http://www.workersliberty.org/node/9328

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  50. Hang on a minute, so your argument is, well Galloway might be a bit dodgy on well religion, democracy and gay rights, but none of that matters when the criticism comes from members of the AWL because they don’t call for troops out now.

    It just doesn’t add up does it?

    Galloway’s record on a range of issues is shocking, and we all know that. He’s a cheap fairground demagogue. The fact that sections of the far left have thrown their hat in with his is the best indicator of their complete and utter uselessness. Judge a movement by its leaders. Anyway he’ll be off soon, no doubt laughing all the way to the bank Degsy-style.

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  51. voltairespriest Avatar
    voltairespriest

    Liam;

    I’ve been looking for where exactly Jim “supports the emancipatory powers of the US Airforce and the CIA”. Can’t find a thing.

    On the other hand I can find where you offer support to a man who considers medical research on embryonic stem cells to be “blasphemous” and who proudly proclaims that he and Ian Paisley stood to against the evils of gambling. That can be found in the post at the top of this thread.

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  52. If the CIA had wished to run an agent with a mission to discredit the anti war movement they would not even begin to dream of someone more accomplished than Galloway.
    The fact that this Iran bigotry comes up just after Iran started paying him is beyond even the wildest imagination of a CIA bureau chief.

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  53. Liam, You seem to be unable to accept that many, many people are very disappointed in you for defending Galloway’s homophobia instead of criticising it. This can’t be dismissed as an AWL campaign. I am not sure you understand the extent to which this post in particular has caused you, SR and the ISG an incredible amount of damage.

    Perhaps you don’t care, but I thought you should know. Attempting to discredit those of us who have been very good personal friends as well as comrades of yours by claiming we support the war, Gordon Brown and other nonsense has really been damaging to those relationships. I think you need to step back and take a look at where you are. That’s my final word on the matter.

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  54. Aled Dilwyn Fisher Avatar
    Aled Dilwyn Fisher

    Liam, frankly, this is disgraceful apologism.

    I’m not in the AWL (not that it should matter if I am) – I’m in Green Left, an organisation increasingly working closely with SR and having done so in the past. We both believe that anti-capitalism and socialism must be green, and that Greens must be socialists and anti-capitalists. However, this scandal means I can’t help think that we are actually quite far apart.

    I was already disappointed when you went with Galloway. Indeed, Galloway has made so many disgusting comments in the past that I am not surprised by his latest.

    But there is something new about these latest ones – something uniquely sickening. But I’m more surprised and disappointed by your apologism, and the whitewashing of other supposedly intelligent people.

    Someone said above that they think you’ll eventually split with Galloway – he’ll go too far. But how much further does he really need to go? What does he have to do next for you to oppose his views? Homophobia clearly isn’t high enough on your hierarchy of discrimination.

    This is infuriatingly sad.

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  55. I think it’s worth stressing that reasonable people can disagree about whether a particular statement actually represents homophobia. I think it’s far more likely that such a disagreement exists here than that some of us have suddenly decided to defend homophobia.

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  56. I think it’s worth while pointing out that had anyone else made that comment then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    but as we know Galloway is the figurehead and thus his pronouncements, no matter how dodgy, are defended

    it’s got nothing to do with reasonable people arguing over homophobia, it’s got more to do with defending the “leader” and political tactics

    not that many people here will openly acknowledge it

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  57. Liam,
    (Abuse deleted – Liam)
    You don’t get involved.
    Everyone on the left should be sad that he wasn’t binned in 1988 when his fiddleing at War on Want was exposed.
    Just one more vote in Hillhead and you wouldn’t have embarrased yourself.

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  58. A spectrum of anti-GG and anti Respect opinion has expressed itself on this subject. At one end are representatives of an organisation that has always had a soft spot for imperialism from Ireland through to Iraq. I’ve left Jim’s characteristically forthright remarks as evidence of that and a link to his tendency’s website for those seeking more detail.

    At the other end of that spectrum are people, and they know who they are, in other currents, including in the Labour Party, whose anti-imperialism is beyond reproach. My personal view is that GG could have distanced himself from the Iranian regime. However the implied homophobia does not stand. That is the entire point of the piece.

    On any given day Ed Milliband or Gordon Brown are responsible for words and deeds that do a lot more damage than anything GG is ever likely to do on a talk show. A sense of perspective on that point has been missing in this discussion.

    If those on the left in the Labour Party are not personally and politically accountable for every action of its leadership then the rules of the game say the same is equally true of Marxists inside Respect. That’s why we are going to the trouble and expense of having our own press. As I’ve remarked before parties are things you fight in and with.

    We are engaging with an organisation that has just been through a major split and is only now reconsolidating. The sharp polemics that the far left is accustomed to, particularly in the blogoshpere, just don’t work in that setting. Our recent experience has been that patient explanation is far more effective than denunciation when you are working with people and that’s what we will carry on doing.

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  59. So we are supposed to believe that Modernity and the AWL, and sundry other Galloway-stalkers and left Islamophobes, are ‘reasonable people’. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard this year.

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  60. Aled Dilwyn Fisher Avatar
    Aled Dilwyn Fisher

    So anyone against Galloway is a “stalker” or “left Islamophobe”?

    Check your facts before you throw around that kind of nonsense, mate. Your smears show how desperate you are. I’ve worked with lots of Muslims on many different causes and have campaigned strongly against Islamophobia and other types of racism.

    Unlike you, however, I don’t support Galloway’s hierarchy of oppression that sees LGBTQI rights below the needs of anti-imperialism.

    I got into politics through opposition to the war in Iraq. Imperialism must be opposed – but we lose all credibility if we are not consistent in our condemnation of human rights abuses across the world. The cause of stopping war against Iran is hurt, not helped, by Galloway’s pathetic attempts to whitewash the regime there.

    Liam – you’re right. Worse comes out of the likes of Brown every hour. But then Brown isn’t a spokesperson for the Stop the War movement, an MP elected on a supposedly socialist platform or – and this is key – someone you have allied yourself to actively, and can hopefully influence as part of the same organisation. So you can stand up to him or not. You seem to have chosen the latter.

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  61. “On any given day Ed Milliband or Gordon Brown are responsible for words and deeds that do a lot more damage than anything GG is ever likely to do on a talk show. A sense of perspective on that point has been missing in this discussion.”

    That is a total cop out and an unbelievably weak argument. Imperialism is nastier and has more power than Galloway, so lets let Galloway off the hook? Or more like, let him say what he likes because he pulls in the crowds?

    And of course patient explanation is needed when working with people from different traditions, but this argument is really just a diversion given you refuse to admit that Galloway has done anything wrong. That’s the real crux of the issue.

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  62. Liam, your characterisation of the awl as “an organisation that has always had a soft spot for imperialism from Ireland through to Iraq” is laughable, particularly given the politics and history of your own organisation, even if it were true it wouldn’t excuse in the slightest your inability to stand up to Galloway over his pandering to homophobia and pro Irani regime politics.

    What is the point of having your own press if you don’t use it to forcefully oppose the stalinism of your political allies, you might as well liquidise your own publications and simply become cheerleaders for Galloway and his rotten politics; hold on….

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  63. “So anyone against Galloway is a “stalker” or “left Islamophobe”?

    Check your facts before you throw around that kind of nonsense, mate.”

    What makes you so important that I need to ‘check my facts’ about you? By responding to my post that named others, not yourself, you seem to be associating yourself with them and defending them against what I said about them. In which case I suggest you check *your* facts and who you are lining up with. What makes you think I should be accountable to you for my views? Why should I take the slightest bit of notice of what you say?

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  64. In my view Liam’s piece has got it wrong in not immediately identifying the homophobic character of the Iranian state as something to be opposed. Although it is perfectly obvious that is his view.

    The precise legal definition of the acts for which gay men are prosecuted in Iran is of interest but of marginal relevance. Stop and search in this country has been racist over decades with changing legal powers and definitions because of the objective content of police actions as experienced by black people, not how the law defines it. The fact that the Iranian state is split over this is of little surprise given the political divisions that are prevalent from top to bottom – this is of greater interest, but not the most important point. The British ruling class has undoubtedly also been divided over it’s racist policies – or at least how to implement them.

    It’s a question of looking at the wood and not focussin to closely on individual trees. Not to do this plays into the hands of all the critics – from the generally well-meaning to the sectarian and reactionary. It also makes it more difficult in practice to build effective opposition to war. Defending gay rights in Iran and exposing homophobia there should strengthen the anti-war movement not undermine it.

    However in my view Liam’s critics make a series of far greater errors. My apologies if what follows makes it look as though I’m lumping you all in the same basket. I’m not it’s just easier and quicker this way.

    1. GG’s comments were undoubtedly crass and wrong. But they don’t make him into a homophobe, nor do they flow from him being a homophobe in the first place. His record of voting and public pronouncements may not be exemplary, but it’s not typically what you get from a homophobe.
    2. Despite all the difficulties it would be wrong to make public opposition to homophobia at all times a pre-condition for opposition to war on Iran. The anti-war movement is and should remain a single issue campaign. Failure to understand this would greatly undermine its strength. Applying such a principle would cause a solidarity movement to be cut off from large swathes of the very people it is claiming to solidarise with and the communities associated with them. Apply the principle to Lebanon and Palestine (particularly given the role of Hamas and Hezbollah in the leadership of resistance) and you have to a recipe for disaster.
    3. Unfortunately many of GGs critics on this are people who are simply consistently carrying out a long-held line of implementing this position and who take it to the logical conclusion that it is wrong to politically work with GG himself, except in the context of continuous and vociferous denunciation (ie not at all).
    4. As TWP has discovered to some embarrassment this type of position is awkward to square with a strategy of building broad political formations. Do you co-exist with those you disagree with? Is there a fundamental check-list of taboo differences? Even where someone has basically the right line (ie GG on gay rights) do you endlessly police everything they say and do to ensure it conforms to your particular tactical view of how to carry it out?
    5. In practice the very asking of the above hypothetical questions leads to the likely answer that because so many problems are caused you don’t place people like GG in positions of high and public profile or leadership. You therefore advocate radically narrowing any political organisation to ensure that reformist leaders can be expected to consistently jump through all the right hoops all the time (ie a tiny handful). Alternatively you ensure that at all times infallible revolutionary socialists are the ones that lead and speak publically. In other words you abandon any strategy of broad and pluralistic party building.

    Of course we should say GG got it wrong. But the real question is what significance does this have and what weight?

    As Liam suggests, GG’s fundamental error is one of campism something that has plagued almost every single campaign in solidarity with a country under threat of imperialist attack.

    “Third world nationalists”, CPers, labourites and Trotskyists (for instance the SWP(US)) alike have fallen into the trap of dividing all political questions into being for or against imperialism and as a result have wittingly or unwittingly ended up defending, glossing over, appearing to apologise for, ignoring or otherwise failing to address reactionary and oppressive aspects of those societies. Very often these currents and individuals have been the most stalwart and consistent builders of solidarity.

    Tragically solidarity movements in this country have been plagued by a rigid dichotomy between a campist left leading and organising the campaigns and a sectarian left refusing to build solidarity because they can’t cope with a pluralistic united front context in which you have to work towards your main aim with all sorts of people you disagree with.

    Astonishing though it may seem large sections of the far left never (in anything but a propagandist sense) built solidarity with the oppressed people of Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Grenada, Lebanon, Palestine, South Africa and more for similar reasons.

    Of course GG is also a leader of a new political party and being criticised in this capacity, not just in his capacity of leading member of the anti-war movement. But very similar principles apply.

    None of this means he didn’t get it wrong. He did. Nor that he shouldn’t be criticised. He should.

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  65. Aled Dilwyn Fisher Avatar
    Aled Dilwyn Fisher

    “What makes you so important that I need to ‘check my facts’ about you? By responding to my post that named others, not yourself, you seem to be associating yourself with them and defending them against what I said about them. In which case I suggest you check *your* facts and who you are lining up with. What makes you think I should be accountable to you for my views? Why should I take the slightest bit of notice of what you say?”

    Your post referred to Modernity, AWL and “sundry other Galloway-stalkers and left Islamophobes”, i.e. everyone who disagreed with you on this blog. So I was no associating myself with any particular group except all the truly reasonable people who have criticised GG.

    I have not been “lining up” with anyone, and I know everything I need to know about various groups people belong to here. I can only speak for myself. You might not have to feel accountable for me, but you are responsible for what you say, and slurring everyone who disagrees with you as “Islamophobes” and “stalkers” might make people want to reply to defend themselves.

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  66. Dustin the Turkey Avatar
    Dustin the Turkey

    In the immortal words of Lenny Tomb after the Respect split, on Galloway:

    “(Thank f### I no longer have to defend this s###).”
    Swearing not welcome.

    Wonder how long it will take for Liam to make the same remark?

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  67. Piers,

    Largely what you say is correct, but you have got the context of this back to front.

    There is no argument that if you want to build a broad organisation you have to work with people from many other traditions and with differing policies, but what is happening here is that Liam and others are going further by suppressing their criticisms of galloway for his rotten politics on Iran and homophobia, and then attempting to politically justify this suppression by lying about the meaning of words and actions, and generally throwing mud around in the hope of clouding the issue.

    The reason the awl -and others- were reluctant to work in a coalition with Galloway is that his whole history is to tolerate no criticism or differing politics or tactics, being in a broad group with him at the lead would necessarily mean suppressing all criticism and alternative politics, in fact on those terms respect renewal is less democratic with less space for dissent than the current new labour or the original respect.

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  68. As martin Ohr says:

    “the awl -and others- were reluctant to work in a coalition with Galloway ”

    We shouldn’t overlook what a fantastic added benefit this is for those of us working with galloway.

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  69. “We shouldn’t overlook what a fantastic added benefit this is for those of us working with galloway” yes andy you’re completely free to have your supposed socialist party support the regimes in China and Iran and cheerlead for crooked pro-life homophobes -well done.

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  70. “I have not been ‘lining up’ with anyone, and I know everything I need to know about various groups people belong to here. I can only speak for myself. You might not have to feel accountable for me, but you are responsible for what you say, and slurring everyone who disagrees with you as “Islamophobes” and “stalkers” might make people want to reply to defend themselves.”

    Its all a matter of opinion, isn’t it? It amazes me how people who feel free to accuse others of all kind of terrible prejudices get all uptight when those so (falsely) accused hit back – often in a far milder way. You consider my accusation of ‘left’ Islamophobia a smear – I consider these accusations of homophobia likewise.

    I don’t see GG’s remarks as homophobic at all, perhaps unwise as open to misreprsentation in that manner, but it seems to me that in seeking to counter liberal hysteria over this question that feeds into liberal warmongering, one runs that risk in any case.

    Predictably, this was picked up on by liberal warmongers, right-wing zionist ‘socialists’ and the odd ultraleft element or two who are still ideologically dependent on liberalism. Plus ca change.

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  71. Martin Ohr says:
    “The reason the awl -and others- were reluctant to work in a coalition with Galloway is that his whole history is to tolerate no criticism or differing politics or tactics, being in a broad group with him at the lead would necessarily mean suppressing all criticism and alternative politics.”

    I think the AWL has never put this issue to the test: they never had any intention of working with Galloway. There is no indication that all (or even any) criticism or alternative politics are supressed in RR.

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  72. Other than that it couldn’t even bring itself accommodate the SWP – let alone more differentiated strands of opinion – and so split from them. Easy to be tolerant when there isn’t any dissent, isn’t it?

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  73. “There is no indication that all (or even any) criticism or alternative politics are supressed in RR.”

    you mean formally, or informally?

    the way that Respect Renewalers here and other places leap on any dissent or criticism of Galloway is indicative of their political culture and how that must manifest itself in the organisation, so it doesn’t need to be formal policy, more an attitude of mind

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  74. “There is no indication that all (or even any) criticism or alternative politics are supressed in RR.”

    you mean formally, or informally?

    the way that Respect Renewalers here and other places leap on any dissent or criticism of Galloway is indicative of their political culture and how that must manifest itself in the organisation, so it doesn’t need to be a formal policy, more an attitude of mind

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  75. Or, to put it another way, one of the most effective ways of being intolerant (of dissent) is to spend massive amounts of time accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being intolerant (of Galloway).

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  76. Yea, right. So those who argue in Galloway’s defence have to be silenced in order to allow ‘dissent’ to flourish. Orwell lives! That is the real nature of the ‘democracy’ promoted by the ‘decent left’ – silencing the anti-imperialist left – in the name of democracy of course. Plus ca change.

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  77. The war on Iraq was prepared for with a drip of horror stories about the crimes of Saddam Hussein and his regime and we were invited to accept an imperialist war as a solution to this evil.

    Amazing that we can see how this worked with Iraq, and we can see the same device being used to warm us up for an attack on Iran, not to mention Venezuela and Syria. And yet the same sleight of hand is being used with the Chinese.

    Yes, we all know China’s faults but the mindlessness of the three-minute hate is really worrying. Kate Hoey of the war party should be getting a big fat raspberry for her diversion from this week’s realisation that troops will now stay in Iraq, the civil war is getting even worse with Shias now slaughtering each other, and emerging news of British bombing of Basra civilians.

    Debate China, criticise China, but to cheer on Hoey et al and their lip-service to “human rights” is a sick joke.

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