Glyn was chair of Respect in Tower Hamlets before the split and a lot of its successes were due to his work. He stood as a candidate for the Left List. He has asked me to post these reflections on recent events.

Following Meltdown Thursday, Neil Lawson (Compass) declared the New Labour project dead. That’s a nice thought, but I think it may be wishful thinking. What is far more certain is the demise of RESPECT. I know that some won’t mourn its passing and many more won’t notice it, but with bitter irony, I see May 1st as a very sad day for the British labour movement.

The election results were, in general, very bad for the left, but the performance of both RESPECT Renewal and the Left List make it clear that neither has a viable future in its current form. I hate to say ‘I told you so’, but I said at the time of the split that is was a suicide pact and for once, one of my political predictions has come true!

I also said that one of the reasons for the split was the blame culture that emerged so quickly when the organization hit some difficulties. Post May 1st, there is even less to be gained from pointing the finger and raking over the past. Those of us who know that the working class needs a new political organization need to take stock of what’s happened and think seriously about what to do next.

In doing so, I believe we must remember both the successes and failures of RESPECT. I still maintain that the strategy of coalition is the correct one. Small, independent organizations can play a vital part in this, but they cannot be an end in themselves. If the left allows itself to be defined by its differences, the only winners will be the political establishment and the forces of reaction.

At its best, RESPECT transcended these differences. Anyone who experienced the energy of the last couple of years knows we were tapping into something real. The campaigns we were part of brought together a wide range of people who were desperately seeking a political alternative. It’s true the exact nature of this voice wasn’t always clearly defined and in retrospect, we should have worked harder on that. But when RESPECT championed the cause of council housing or opposed cuts in public services, we made an instant connection with the lives and concerns of working class people, regardless of ethnicity or faith. The collapse of RESPECT has already left a big vacuum. For example, in Tower Hamlets we are seeing the relentless encroachment of the City of London, posing a direct threat to a long-established working class community. But last Thursday, the New Labour party that has paved the way for the property developers in Bethnal Green comfortably won a local ward by-election. This shouldn’t have happened and wouldn’t have if RESPECT (or something like it) had mounted a unified campaign of resistance.

It’s impossible to reflect on RESPECT without mentioning George Galloway. I don’t know what he’s going to do now, but I am very sorry that he’s failed to fulfill the hope and promise he brought to the East End. He could have been a contender! He had the talent to write his name in the folklore of the labour movement, but he chose a different path. But in the end, the real lesson is that we cannot have political charisma at the expense of political accountability. The movement needs leaders and totem figures, but the moment they become detached from the grassroots and the reality of working people’s lives, they are useless.

The SWP is now turning to the industrial front as the most fertile field for growing resistance to neo-liberalism. I’m not sure about that. Of course the trade unions are vital and I’m sure there will be growing militancy as the recession starts to bite. But just as the Labour Party cannot be reclaimed, I think we have to face up to the dead weight that has become our trade union leaders and the bureaucracies that support them. I don’t think even the best of them is capable of leading a sustained or coherent challenge to New Labour. The fundamental need for a political arm to go with the industrial one hasn’t changed. While I don’t think a traditional version of ‘The Party’ is the way forward, the labour movement still urgently needs a unifying political organization. It’s easier said than done, but we have to try.

So farewell then RESPECT! The phrase ‘Up like a firework, down like a stick’ was never more apposite. I’ll miss it, but remember it fondly, in the belief that we can do it better next time.

89 responses to “Only the Good Die Young – Glyn Robbins on Respect”

  1. Typically sound and reasonable response here from Glyn.

    Although I’ve a few disagreements with the piece and I’m sure there is plenty of scope for sectarian point scoring I don’t think there are as many open minded and thoughtful socialists around today and I think credit is due to the honesty of this appraisal.

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  2. Jim Monaghan Avatar
    Jim Monaghan

    I tend to agree from the lofty height of Dublin. I like the premise, first start with the reality and stop gilding the lily (in this case more of a weed as regards success).
    Hopefully there will be a critique rather than a blame game.In all splits there are usually 3 places people go. Two on either side, the other out of politics, pissed off with everything and everybody.

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  3. “I hate to say ‘I told you so’, but I said at the time of the split that is was a suicide pact and for once, one of my political predictions has come true!”

    So if he believed ‘at the time’ it was suicidal, why did he stand as a candidate for the ‘Left List’? If he had stood aloof from both sides, this might have had some credibility, but given his LL candidacy, it doesn’t. He would have been wrong even then, but honourably wrong.

    This reads rather badly to me, as someone who helped to split Respect in a destructive manner taking fright at the consequence of his own actions, and projecting blame for those actions on those who are trying to preserve the project. It’s providing political cover for Rees and co, and it leaves rather a bad taste.

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  4. I am not sure why Glyn concludes that Respect is over.

    Hanif;s result in City and East added 7000 votes to the 2004 total, and suggests that with another two years campaigning Respect could still return two MPs from the East End.

    To pronounce Respect dead on the basis of these reulats would be as premature as arguing that the Green party was destroyed when the right winfgaround Jonathan Porritt et al left.

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  5. Glynn went with the Left List. Maybe the LL is over and the SWP has a new focus. However RESPECT had some small successes in this election. Obviously the message from RR to Glynn and other comrades is there is still fight within RR – come and join us. Liking GG is not a condition of membership.

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  6. “the labour movement still urgently needs a unifying political organization. It’s easier said than done, but we have to try.”

    good point. a party based on the labour movement and the socialist movement in needed urgently – to give voice, organise and inspire the wider working class and poor in society in the inevitable fight back.

    unfortunately i’m far from convinced that either wing of respect has this clear class perspective or has the aim of a new workers’ party. the idea of cross-class soft-left populist party seems to be predominant amongst some sections.

    anyway in the coming struggles i’m sure the opportunities for real concrete developments towards a new workers’ party will develop.

    comradely greetings,

    ks

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  7. “Liking GG is not a condition of membership.”

    hahaha

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  8. well Karl even before that and probably as an essential precondition of that is to get practical fighting unity- on the strikes, on anti-privatisation campaigns, on the Bolton school strike, on housing campaigns and other issues, fighting the BNP etc.

    It would be good to get moving on this soon and also for socialist party to support the http://www.conventionoftheleft.org

    Bolton strike- http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=2074

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  9. but Karl even before that and perhaps as an essential precondtion of that let’s have a fighting unity in cmapaigns, in united fronts, in action- strikes, against privatisation, community campaigns

    support the Bolton strike
    http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=2074

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  10. and also would be good if the Socialist Party would get behind http://www.conventionoftheleft.org

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  11. Ian – a lot of the comrades who went with the SWP side of the split did so with the best of motives. Glyn was one of them and this post is a serious attempt to explain what has gone wrong. For me its principal mistake it that it is too pessimistic but then there is much to be gloomy about.

    On the other hand alongside some of the good SP, LL and Respect results one encouraging aspect of the election results is the welcome absence of rancour and evidence of serious attempts to come to grips with what needs to happen next.

    Have I mentioned that SR is organising a dayschool to let people talk these issues through in more depth? By an unhappy coincidence it clashes with PR’s event in the same building on the same day but you can buy tickets for both and pop into the sessions that interest you.

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  12. Well the funny thing is Ian, thatGlyn is not pessimistic enough in some ways.

    When Glyn says: ” I’m sure there will be growing militancy as the recession starts to bite. But just as the Labour Party cannot be reclaimed, I think we have to face up to the dead weight that has become our trade union leaders and the bureaucracies that support them.”

    I think this is mistakenly optimistic, and not facing the fact that the problem in the unions is not the dead weight of bureaucracy, but the devastating defeats of twenty plus years that have left us with a decimated shop floor organisation, sparce class consciousness, and probably any recovery on the industrial side will be sectional and limited.

    We need to develop a counter hegemonic consensus that the neo-liberal agenda is wrong and needs ot be changed, and the turn to the left that sme seem to be suggestiing – focusing on militancy and campaigns, is going in the worng direction, and is doomed to failure without a political revival of left ideas to sustain it.

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  13. I’m afraid I find Glyn Robbins attempt to play honest broker somewhat disingenuous. For example, he says that George Galloway “could have been a contender”. But Robbins backed another contender, the SWP’s Left List. He campaigned against Galloway. He’s entitled to do that, of course, but not to adopt at the same time the air of an impartial observer. And as for the jibe about political accountability – perhaps Robbins has been able to hold Rees and German to account for the destructive campaign they’ve run and the poisonous “analysis” they’ve put out over the last few days. I doubt it somehow. Comrade Robbins should reflect on his role in backing the SWP in this split rather than project his own demoralisation at the result of the Left List onto those in Respect who are building on a sober analysis, and on results such as Sparkbrook, where it will be news to people that Respect is dead.

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  14. It would be quite easy for the Left List to uphold Preston or Southamptom as evidence of the viability of LL. But that’s not happened because the reality is that LL and Renewal haven’t got a chance of rebuilding the base Respect had 3-4 years ago nor unity among the left. The split ended that opportunity and now neither wing of Respect engenders confidence in the left nor the electorate.

    I assume it’s much more important for many comrades in Renewal to keep it going because unlike those in the LL there is a stronger attachment because it’s probably the only political organisation they belong to.

    The bottom line is that both orgs aren’t encouraging unity and we need to rethink how we work together. If Glyn Robbins hadn’t been in the LL then he’d probably have been in Renewal. Regardless of which organisation he belongs to that doesn’t negate his analysis.

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  15. Oh, and another thing, perpetuating the anti-SWP stuff isn’t helping anyone on the left. Rees and German have the full backing of all of us in the SWP. So trying to split the membership from the leadership of the SWP is a waste of energy that would be better spent contributing to joint campaigns. The left got thrashed in the election. It was a wake-up call for ALL of the left and we can’t afford to perpetuate that divisive nonsense any longer.

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  16. ‘I assume it’s much more important for many comrades in Renewal to keep it going because unlike those in the LL there is a stronger attachment because it’s probably the only political organisation they belong to.’ – Ray, can you explain what other political organisations members of LL belong to?

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  17. Rees and German have the full backing of all of us in the SWP. So trying to split the membership from the leadership of the SWP is a waste of energy

    So criticising the actions of Rees and German in RESPECT is off-limits, unless we want to antagonise the SWP as a whole? That’s going to make it a bit difficult for anyone outside the SWP to work with R&G, don’t you think?

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  18. Andy,

    talking amongst others on the ‘left’ about creating ‘a counter hegemonic consensus that the neo-liberal agenda is wrong and needs to be changed’ is not going to achieve anything without linking it to workers in struggle, however much the worker’s have been derailed by the last twenty (I’d say more like thirty) years of defeats, betrayals etc.
    There is life in the class yet:-
    April 24th, Grangemouth, RMT strikes.
    Bringing the ideological, political and industrial struggles together is the key, and yes daunting task, but to leave out class struggle from the equation is deeply pessimistic and flawed.
    Whatever happened to dialectics?

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  19. Halshall,

    You are absilutely correct that we need to both relate to the politicall and ideological as well as the practical workers and campaigning struggles.

    But there is a very real mood coming from the SWP camp (and echoed by permanent Revolution) that there needs to be a greater emphasis on the real struggle , which will be unions figting back and campaiging.

    Well, yes yes, all well and good. But we should be rightly pessimistic about such struggles being anything but sectional, and limited; and therefore they are not going to provide an alternative to the domiant neo-liberal consensus, and placing then as centre stage of stratgy is returning to the comfort blanket.

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  20. In City and East,Galloway polled a third less votes than Hanif.
    Clearly the Galloway toxin has been spotted,but too late.

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  21. “Well, yes yes, all well and good. But we should be rightly pessimistic about such struggles being anything but sectional, and limited; and therefore they are not going to provide an alternative to the domiant neo-liberal consensus, and placing then as centre stage of stratgy is returning to the comfort blanket.”

    Well that must explain why you’ve posted nothing about the anti-BNP demo outside City Hall on your blog. Too sectional for you was it? Or not led by Renewal perhaps?

    My advice, which you won’t take, is to drop the feud that leading members of Renewal are perpetuating on your blog and reign in the grand delusions that Renewal is somehow the official organisation of the so-called “plural” left and get stuck into joint work and unity.

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  22. Phil there’s a difference between criticising the SWP politically and launching a personal vendetta against it’s leadership. All those predictions that the membership are going to oust the CC are petty purile drivel and have nothing to do with poitical analysis.

    Post election it seems absurd that you lot are still banging on about the SWP. Don’t you think there are more important things to be getting on with?

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  23. George, no one in the Left List is deluded enough to believe it’s the pluralist force on the left so they’re not desperately clinging on to it as if it’s the only way forward for the left. Renewal meanwhile…

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  24. After any election it is always appropropriate to have a reflection on the results, the new situation and what conclusions to draw. Flinging yourself into activity without thought may be ok for getting over a death or a broken heart but it’s of limited value in helping develop a political perspective. In any case most of the contributors whom I know manage to combine activity with discussion.

    And it’s pretty clear that this is a political moment that does require a considerable amount of thought. The mistakes in recent months put that assertion beyond doubt.

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  25. Ray’s happy with the SWP leadership over the last year. Fine for him. it’s your funeral. Glyn seems less happy despite having thrown his lot in with the fools.

    I’m sorry but I think a l;ittle humility from Glyn wouldn’t go a miss. You can be both a partisan in a dispute then claim a moral high ground when the side you back messes up. I’m sorry Glyn thinks the Respect is dead. Clearly the old one is – along with I suspect the Left List as it’s leaders go on the hunt for strikes and demos. But the renewed Respect is very much alive – weakened alive and confident about the future.

    and ray if you think it’s ‘absurd that you lot are still banging on about the SWP’ perhaps you could help by stopping posting such drivel and start to engage with the fact that your own version of a ‘left’ alternative was utterly humiliated last week.

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  26. I agree about the left needing an analysis about our defeat but that shouldn’t be at the expense of action. If I believed paralysis of analysis was the reason Renewal didn’t build the demo or have a presense on it then that would be bad enough but I think it was for sectarian reasons and that means they haven’t learnt anything.

    In case any of you are interested:

    http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/05/nazis-out-of-city-hall-smash-bnp.html

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  27. TLC you are like the beggar pissing on the homeless person. The election was a wake up call for ALL of the left and you’re still sleepwalking.

    Renewal hasn’t got a hope in hell of unifying the left around it because many of its leading members are still focused on feuding with the rest of the left. There are some in Renewal who have a much more realistic analysis which I welcome but unless they prevail the Renewal project will continue to pull up the draw bridge and isolate itself from the rest of the left and the campaigns that follow.

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  28. The leading figures of Respect have demonstrated, by their reaction to these results, that they are doing anything but feud with “the rest of the left”. They are reaching out to others on the left, which includes the Labour left (yep, that means people who campaigned hard for Ken Livingstone as well).

    Meanwhile, Rees and German are sticking the boot into Galloway (failing to save his career) and Yaqoob (gloating – mistakenly – that she is falling behind in race for a parliamentary seat).

    TLC is absolutely right. It is taking the biscuit for those who have backed every bit of the SWP leadership’s sectarian wrecking operation to now say: well, it’s bad news for the left all round, lessons for all. Start with the lessons closest to home. Rees and German drove through a split and their aim of doing in Galloway must now be clear to all from their public reaction to the election results. Yes, the left has to digest these results and think through how to proceed. But the SWP leadership is ruled out of that for large numbers of people until they deal with these two.

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  29. “TLC you are like the beggar pissing on the homeless person”

    No Ray – I’m pissing on you. Sadly you have a home in the SWPand you’re welcome to it. Your attitude on this blog – and previously in your vile incarnation as Unity is Strength – suggest you have nothing to offer in terms of unity only arrogant cant. Give it up.

    People don’t want to unite with the SWP cos they are sick and tired of their arrogance. Yes the left got hit badly last week. But your bit got battered at the polls – go look in a mirror and explain when after spending some £60,000 plus all you ended up with was a candidate so humilated she didn’t attend the final announcement and a big green balloon.

    Until the SWP show some humility for their part in the last few months debacle they will remain an uincresingly irrelvant force. No looking for the next big thing, the next strike, demo, building Marxism, will hide the fact that you have been led up the garden path.

    If you can’t see that then fine. Go bury your head in the sand. You’ll be in the company of all the others in the ‘smallest – and getting smaller – mass party in the world’ .Perhaps that’s why north Manchester SWP have spent the last five years meeting in a pub called The Ostritch.

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  30. Can I suggest that if people want to have a piss they don’t do it on here?
    It might ease your bile for a moment but for the rest of us it just leaves a bad smell.

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  31. silly nas.
    August – Galloway niminates himself for Poplar, has to dump SWP to get Abjol in and repay the Jamaat.
    Dumb SWP leadership don’t expect a locksmith.
    Now its Georgie off to the media world after creaming £800,000 since the election.

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  32. My apologies for offending your sensibilities Bill. I’d have never have thought of you as such a sensitive soul. I shall relieve myself elsewhere in future.

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  33. TLC you’re dribbling down your own leg I’m afraid. Why not join the left on the anti-BNP demo’s and put your money where your mouth is?

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  34. If 200 or so people on a half-cocked anti-BNP demo is “the left”, then god help us. It wasn’t, of course. A real movement against the BNP will be far wider than the LMHR front. It will involve Dobson, Cuddas and, dare I say, Livingstone, Galloway, and the Muslim organisations Rees and German have burnt their bridges with. It is also no substitute for dealing with the debacle of the SWP’s electoral intervention.

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  35. Of course we should be building for those alliances- 250-300 is not brilliant but it was short notice and not well publicised, I did ask Socialist Unity to put it up and Respect Renewal and Socialist Worker and Socialist Party- don’t think any did. And I certianlyb wasn’t the organiser- just got it via a left e-list. We put it on PR but it needs to be everyhwere.

    Anyway let’s learn from the mistake and build better and bigger next time.

    To defeat the BNP we need a range of tactics- primarily to take on the class issues, to have working class campaigns that win so that all workers, including those who are tempted to vote BNP, are not taken in but see that Black workers and themselves share a common class interest. I don’t think is primarily electoral but having community campaigns, organisations that represent local working class interests and persistent, patient and systematic work on these issues. Of course it is better to vote against the BNP where you can- either Labour or if there’s a credible alternative a socialists or anti-privatisation candidate. But voting is not the be all and end all. A vote against the BNP is essential but only the beginning.

    However, it isalso necessary to organise physically against the BNP to prevent them form organisng, leafleting, meeting, and marching. Why? Because by so doing they gain confidence and evidence shows where they do racist attacks increase and people are intimidated- whether asylum seekers, Black people, gay people, others.

    So let;s build the mass movement- and my experience of working with Asian including Muslim organisations is they see the BNP as enough of a threat as to definitely work with the left, trade unionists, socialists etc. We did it in Oldham on a small scale pretty successfully. We now need to do it on a much larger scale.

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  36. there’s a difference between criticising the SWP politically and launching a personal vendetta against it’s leadership

    I haven’t noticed much difference in how SWP loyalists respond.

    Besides, you missed (or avoided) my point. Rees and German are (or were) leading members of RESPECT. If members of RESPECT think Rees and German have personally screwed up, is it OK for them to criticise those individuals? If not, why not?

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  37. Nas you really are cynical. I’m pleased that you have no impact on what the left do or don’t do. There were more people at the anti-BNP demo at such short notice than Renewal could muster at that devisive and derisory meeting you organised for Livingstone. While Renewal organised their 100 strong Livingstone campaign meeting 60,000 people attended an anti-racism festival in Victoria Park. And you want to lecture the rest of the left about organising against the nazi’s! If you think Cruddus or any leading figures will look toward Renewal for an alliance then think again. As for Dobson you can have him! Why not give Hain a call while you’re at it. You are against unity because you are afraid it will undermine Renewal and your own sense of self-importance.

    Jason, calling a demo against the BNP a, “mistake”, is bizzare after your calls for unity. I’m begining to suspect that you blow whichever way the wind blows according to who you need to appeal to. Can’t you see that all the negativity from SUN is an attempt to control the agenda?

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  38. Phil, you split from Respect not us and the only person unaccountable for your behaviour is you. You seem devoid of any culpability for what happened so everything you throw at me, the SWP and its leadership is just projection. We’re not answerable for your behaviour or your politics so I suggest you turn the magnifying glass on yourself.

    Don’t waste your time continuing with the SWP bashing because I’m not interested. If you want a debate about how we tackle the BNP or organise in the unions then let me know. The left (including Renewal) got trounced in the election and we need to get on with rebuilding the left not descending into circuitous petty in-fighting.

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  39. 2-300 at a demo called at short notice is nothing to be embarrassed about. For that success to be built on any subsequent anti-fascist mobilisations have to draw in the widest possible range of working class forces. That is not done by any one tendency assuming that it automatically has to right to be hegemonic and that everyone else just has to turn up when the summons is issued.

    An open approach to other currents is the straightest path to building a practical anti-fascist coalition.

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  40. Ray, you seem to be addressing somebody else (I’m not a member of RESPECT) and answering questions I didn’t ask. But your reaction does indirectly answer my original questions – about criticisms of John Rees (A: streng verboten) and joint work with the SWP (A: strictly on the SWP leadership’s terms) – so thanks for that.

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  41. No 2-300 is nothing to be embarassed about.

    What is to be embarassed about is the near-total absence of the SWP-led ‘Unite against Facism’ campaign from anti-BNP campaigning in London or elsewhere in the May GLA and local elections.

    What is to be embarassed about is an ill-timed Cartnival, held too late in the campaign to have any effect on inspiring and mobilising the audience to go out and leaflet and canvass against the BNP, made absolutely zero attempt to do so and semed more concerned in ensuring the maximum profile for the Left List at the Cartnival, to the very obvius and justified displeasure of the Trade Unions who had largely funded the event.

    What is to be embarassed about are those sections of the Left who appear to think this is a serious and effective version of anti-facism. It is not. The only people whi have any kind of impact are the local-led Hope not Hate campaigns co-ordinated by Searchlight. Why? Because unlike the UAF Searchlight has no agenda except stopping the BNP. Its why it is supported by everry major trade union and every local campaign against the BNP of any significance.

    The SWP have dumped the Left List and jumping aboard their new bandwagon, UAF and LMHR. Its no way to build an effectve, broad, community-led anti fascism. Thats no sectarianism, its politics. If UAf and LMHR is all we’ve got to stop the BNP in next year’s Euro Elections they’ll win hands down. Its time to stop playing student union politics, see through the SWP manouevring and back the serious, committed anti-facism of Searchlight. For them anti-facism isn’t a bandwago or a party-building exercise, its what it says on the label, Stop the BNP.

    Mark P

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  42. I totally agree Liam and the only way to do that is for all of the left to get involved. Who cares who called the demo – lets get out there and support it. There were members of RR on the demo. It’s just a shame that there was such hostility to it at SUN.

    Phil it really doesn’t matter whether you’re a member or not you parrot their rhetoric. You’ve using wish fullfilment to answer your own questions so there is no point even asking them is there? Your reaction does confirm what I’ve known all along and that is you’re not open to debate and you never were. It’s just an exersize in point scoring and that’s no help to the left.

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  43. Mark P you forgot to mention Searchlights capitulation to Islamophobia in your analysis. Let us know how that will help draw voters away from the Nazi’s?

    It’s a shame that the cynicism at SUN is spilling over here. I’m sure the SWP will be extremely flattered to hear that they are LMHR and UAF. It’s extremely insulting to the thousands of non-SWP members who are involved in these organisations. This line of arguement is very reminicent of what Renewal argued about Respect. Over on SUN they’re even plotting to get German removed from that so-called SWP front, STWC.

    It seems that there are no depths that a few in Renewal will sink to perpetuate their feud with the SWP. Meanwhile the BNP make hay in the sun and Brown veers further to the right.

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  44. Dave Festive Avatar
    Dave Festive

    Comment deleted. Dave feel free to dish out this sort of abuse somewhere else. It’s not welcome here and unless the political level of your contributions improves you’ll join the select group of people I’ve banned. LIAM

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  45. Dave Festive Avatar
    Dave Festive

    SEE ABOVE – LIAM

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  46. Dave Festive ? Grow up and start dealing in real politics rather than posturing.
    >Searchlight doesn’t call for a voite for Labour, it calls for people not to vote BNP.
    > The ‘revolutioinary left’, if you think they’re of enough significance nowadays to bother MI5 you are seriously deluded (0.6% of the Mayoral vote anyone?) and detached
    > I’m not Chairman of the England Supporters club, get your facts right
    > So supporting England makes me incapable of oposing racism does it and you wonder why the Far Left is so marginal to serious anti-fascism with absolutely no base in a working class it purports to represent but of which it is entirely unrepresentative?
    > A North London derby with one player on the pitch who’s actually gone to a local school, played park football, come through the youth teams and made it into the first team, oh and he’s black. Football owned by the multi millionairs who have zero interest in the links with their local communities that made these clubs what they are today. Thats the issue not quotas, and if you think the neo-colonial recruitment of African, South American and East European players on the cheap whilst closing down your youth teams is progressive then its a pretty funny politics of football you adhere to. Get real and get your head out of the student union politics you should have grown out of years ago.

    Now back to the point. What precisely did UAF do in the May elections to stop the BNP. What precisely did the ‘Carnival’ achieve in terms of mobilising activism? Was the Carnival ill-timed and much to the displeasure of the trade unions who funded it turned into a nakedly opportunistic electoral rally for the Left List blowing LMHR’s credibility apart? And now Left List has been dumped is UAF the revived SWP party-building bandwagon which a week ago it thought was of no importance at all? And you ask your politics to be taken seriously!

    Compare this to the campaign by Searchlight which put in all the hard work to peg back BNP gains to 10 council seats, they expected 40, and 1 GLA seat, they expected 3. And ask yourself who local communities trust in building an effective local-led movement to stop the BNP rather than a puerile stunt outside City Hall.

    Dave Festive? No, just a joke.

    Mark P

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  47. 5 Live – see my remarks to Dave Festive. That’s not the way this site works. Argue politically or seek another forum.

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  48. Perhaps we should learn to be a little more firendly in our tone when making criticisms?

    I think everyone agrees we need a campaigning presence on the estates against cuts, privatisation, crap housing and the rest and the BNP.

    Let;’s seriously get together and do it then!

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  49. COMMENT DELETED. 5 Live – if you imply racism against known anti-racist contributors you’ll go on the banned list. Argue politically or don’t comment here. You’ve managed to break every condition of the comments policy on your first attempt. Well done. That’s a very special talent and not one that most would envy. LIAM

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  50. Mark P, if you want to support Searchlight that’s great but don’t use them as a stick to beat the SWP. I have no objection to working with Searchlight apart from the fact that they capitulate to Islamophobia. The anti-nazi movement has always contained various currents from liberals who disagree with no platform to squadist who believe primarily in direct confrontation by an elite group of fighters. What I have witnessed is the power we possess when we unite together to fight the Nazi’s. If anyone was on the corner of Bricklane when we drove out the BNP from their regular pitch in the 90’s you’ll know exactly what I mean. When we campaigned on the Isle of Dogs the feeling of working alongside Labour, other activists on the left and nonaligned local people to get rid of Beacon was fantastic.

    The part I object to is that the basis of your whole arguement, Mark, is an attack on the SWP and not a political debate about the best way to fight the nazi’s. Characterising LMHR as the SWP and the carnival as fundamentally a recruiting rally for the Left List is dishonest. I’m sure that if Respect had remained intact you would have had no objection to it campaigning at LMHR. Your arguement is doubly hypocritical because Renewal organised a seperate rally for Livingstone on the same afternoon! That’s why I perceive your objections as cant rather than a debate about the best way to organise against the nazi’s.

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  51. You’ve using wish fullfilment to answer your own questions so there is no point even asking them is there?

    The point of asking questions is for someone else (e.g. you) to answer them. If you think I haven’t given you a chance to answer, you have my apologies and I offer you the floor.

    I’ll admit I put my question in a provocative form, but it’s a genuine question for all that. Given that John Rees is a leading figure in RESPECT/LL, which is not identical to the SWP, is it legitimate for non-SWP members of RESPECT to criticise Rees’s actions – or will any such criticism lead SWP members to close ranks? You seemed to be arguing that it’s the latter – but if that’s the case then the SWP leadership essentially has its allies in an armlock: support us or you’re attacking the SWP as a party. Can the SWP form alliances on that basis?

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  52. jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz
    this is bonkers… the bnp have been elected to gla.. lets all attack the ???SWP. Broad based campaign.. wel uaf has loads of unions and labour party figures backing it.. what is the problem. I t seems the sectarians here object to revolutionaries being involved in any campaigns or having leading positions in them.
    UAF did go leafleting, stalls, carnival……whats the problem
    And for the record the GG and Livingstone 100 strong rally up the road from the carnival was a pretty poor move and was simply designed to bolster Livingstones and GG vote. That I am afriad is the hall mark of a sect. GG said he couldn’t speak at the carnival cos he was on sky tv.. thats right he put that first which is his right of course but then has the nerve to whinge about his time to speak.
    Yes the LL was by and large very very poor. GG however we were told had a huge popular base built according to ovenden from Big Brother and TALKSPORT…. it was a dreadful illusion that media profile gets u a radical vote. I am afraid GG looks to be a busted flush. RR will need to become more than the GG show but one glance of the web site and it shows they are obsessed by him.

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  53. My post above responds to a comment by ‘Dave Festive’ Liam has deleted in which he accuses me of pandering to racism because I have stated that Premiership teams which don’t field a single product of their own youth academy is ‘pandering to racism’.

    Now in response to JJ and Ray, why don’t you address the specific points I raise instead of indulging in tub-thumping rhetoric?

    What activity against the BNP did UAF deliver in last week’s local and London elections?

    Was the LMHR Carnival ill-timed and entirely fail to mobilise even a fraction of those who attended into any effective activity against the BNP in the final week of the campaign? In contrast was the presence and profile of Left List at the rally disproprtionate and are the Trade Unions who funded the Caernival feeling used as a result? I write this as someone who actively built the carnival, went to it, and didn’t go to the Londoners4Peace rally. Deal with the Carnival’s effectivenes not this other rally.

    Has UAF developed any kind of relationship, involvement with local groups in the localities where the BNP are strong campaigning to stop the BNP?

    Does UAF have such a special and unique contribution to make which justifies its existence apart from the respected, consistent and widely supported by all the major trade unions, Searchlight ‘Hope not Hate’ campaign, except to ensure SWP domination of UAF?

    Deal with the specifics not your own rhetoric.

    Mark P

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  54. “Compare this to the campaign by Searchlight which put in all the hard work to peg back BNP gains to 10 council seats, they expected 40, and 1 GLA seat, they expected 3”

    This lie needs nailing once and for all. You have taken this from one fascists view on his blog, and have ignored the BNP`s prediction or a few local wins and a single GLA seat, made by their senior members Martin Wingfield, John Bean and Nick Griffin to be specific. Do you really want me to embarass you by posting direct links to the articles on the BNP website? Their performace was in line with their expecations, but below their hopes.

    I know you need to try to justify Searchlights miserable and abject failure to stop the BNP, but please stop slagging off UAF, who unlike Searchlight, have a clue how to stop the BNP

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  55. Extraordinary. Your ;’evidence’ flies in the face of all reputable electoral analysis.

    In 2004 the BNP only didn’t get on the GLA because of the verry high UKIP vote who secured two GLA members.

    In 2008 the UKIP vote by and large collapsed as expected and the widespread expectation was the BNP would pick up a sizeable proportion of the vote. Nobody s claiming inly 1 BNP elected to the GLA is a ‘victory’ nor only 10 BNP councillors a ‘victory’. But it is considerably less than might have been expected given their averaghe polling in wards contested in 2007 was 17%.

    Meanwhile you claim UAF has a ‘strategy’. Pray what might that be as in 2008 this consisterd of zero campaigning, an ill-timed carnival too late to have any impact on the campaign at which no attempt at all was made to mobilise those who came to go out and leaflet against the BNP. If this is what you call ‘having a clue how to stop the BNP’ then gawd help us.

    Mark P

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  56. Mark P.

    Your attack on Respect/Left and by extension sectarian attacks on UAF is a simple lie. In South Wales, Respect/Left Party were incredibly active in campaigning against the Nazis for the last 6 months and have a proud tradition of anti-racist activism for a long time before these local elections, whether it was the 1000 strong march following the murder of Kawa Kalan Karim in Swansea, the solidarity protest when Shah Jalal mosque was desecrated by fascists in Cardiff, or getting a KKK member jailed in Bridgend who was trying to set up a branch int he Valleys, or in the 90s the campaign that secured the release of the Cardiff 3.

    In Swansea, indeed I would say that Respect/Left Party members were more active leafleting for UAF than Respect/Left Party who were standing a candidate in a ward there. Activities included demonstrating outside the offices of a newspaper that had printed an advert for the BNP & organising anti-fascist leafleting and canvassing every weekend f or the last 3 months, in a city where the Nazis have been trying to get a base.

    It’s a sign of the credibility of Bridgend UAF that last year organised a big carnival against the Nazis, did extensive leafleting, and set up a conference that saw speakers from all 4 major parties in Wales alongside anti-racist campaigners, that this year as soon as it became clear that the BNP were making a push in the area, the Leader of Bridgend Council called up the co-ordinator of Bridgend UAF (a member of Respect/Left Party) to ask him what UAF were going to do to stop the Nazis. Indeed, this same comrade apologised for not being able to help much with the election campaign, because his main priority would be anti-fascist campaigning.

    So your claim that our members and UAF did nothing to campaign against the BNP during these local elections is not only nonsense – but sectarian, divisive nonsense.

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  57. I should also mention a few coaches went from South Wales to the Carnival in London filled with many young people & trade unionists who felt very inspired by being with thousands of like minded people and the event to get more anti-racist agitiation off the ground back home.

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  58. No reputable antifascist would touch the state freindly Searchlight organisation with a bargepole. That is why you are proscribed organsiation by AfA, and subsequently Antif. UAF quite rightly cut ties with you.

    As you are fond of pre-election precitions , lets look at the pre-election prediction from Searchlight for once. “Our main priority for 2008 will be stopping the BNP winning representation on the London Assembly………. However, we are confident that with the right campaign we can keep them out of City Hall.”

    You didnt, you failed miserably. They are now in City Hall, and one of the main reason is the Left were taken in by Searchlight`s abysmal analysis , be this on BNP internal problems (try to make your spooks less obvious next time) – and electoral perfomance, namely denying that their by election perfomance since last year has been anything but very, very good.

    UAF did what they could did with the numbers, and money, they had. Left List, love em or hate em, are trying to crate a left alternative to the BNP, to undercut their support by offerring a left alternative- which is the only way to beat the BNP in the long term. Whether LL is the correct party for that is another day, but dont blame us for Searchlights failure and the BNP`s victory.

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  59. Indeed mark

    And the predictions of the UKIP vote going to the BNP was not just the usual jouranlistic impressionism, but based upon serious academic research of voting patterns in the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report “The far Right in London”.

    The ludicrious posturing of UAF was exposed by the idiocy of Weyman Bennett in the aftermath of the 2006 election results when he described the BNP as an “openly Nazi organisation”.

    I appreciate that for obvious reasons Weyman probably doesn’t spend much time talking with BNP supporters, but I have.

    Calling the Nazis and waving placcards at them has zero impact on their support. Firstly because it is much harder to make the Nazi label stick to them now, but also we are a generation aftert the NF, and young people don’t respnd with the same automatic revulsion to nazism as they used to – it is just stuff out of history.

    The BNP also spin any attempt to silence them as evidence of how the metropolitian liberals are trying to silence the authentic greivances of white working class communities.

    What the BNP are vulnerable to is the argument that they are trouble making outsiders deliberately exploiting local problems for their own agenda. But to play that card our anti-BNP campaigns needs to be built arounf local communityy activists more rooted than the BNP are, and our campaign needs to have no ulterior agenda except stopping the BNP.

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  60. Jim Page, UAF didnt’ cut ties with Searchlight. Searchlight walked out of UAF for rather dubius reasons and also made a bizarre accusation that UAF believed in a black-led organisation and the SWP were anti-semitic.

    I’m sure Searchlight do some good work, but I am dubious about some of their thinking, for example encouraging people to Vote Labour rather than just vote to stop the Nazis is in my opinion inappropriate.

    In South Wales, some trade unionists who were involved in Searchlight here complained that they were more into Media Stunts and Publicity, and press conferences with politicians rather than on-the-ground leafleting and campaigning . They also complained that they were constantly promoting the Communist Party. These union members didn’t really care under what banner the anti-fascist work was done, just as long as there was counter-leafleting and campaigning on the ground where the BNP were trying to build a branch,

    To Andy: When I’ve talked to people who say “I might vote BNP” and tell them about Griffin’s holocaust denial, standing candidates who are gang rapists etc, and expose the Nazi connection, it does seem to have an impact in my experience.

    Personally, I think UAF should talk about the BNP as Nazis rather than fascists. As “fascist” has a far less direct connotation to most people than Nazis.

    One thing that concerns me, is that the Left needs to do mass leafleting and campaigning to challenge the lies about immigrants in working class areas, as this seems to be a rising form of racism.

    I don’t have much time for this organisation, but I actually thought this leaflet from Workers Power was excellent and pitched the argument against racism against asylum seekers on a clear appeal to working class interests:

    Click to access AsylumLiesLeaflet.pdf

    I also think that you caricature UAF and anti-facist campaigners as just waving placards and chanting “nazi” as if that is all they do.

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  61. Dave Festive Avatar
    Dave Festive

    This is pathetic. Searchlight is an organisation that panders to racism putting out leaflets that say: ‘The BNP says they hate muslims. But they got funding from Gadaffi, and printed they’re newspaper in Saudi Arabia. So they’re not really against muslims, don’t vote for them’.

    i.e. they appeal to racists not to vote BNP as the BNP ‘aren’t really racists after all’.

    This panders to racism. In Bradford and Keighley, where these leaflets went out, muslims felt they couldn’t get involved with this campaign, so there was a whites-only anti-fascist campaign as a result. Searchlight also organised a fundraiser during the campaign. What was the food that was available? pork pie and chips. great sensitivity there, guys.

    Those of us in UAF in west yorks had to pick up the pieces from this. am i angry? you better believe it.

    searchlight use a similar trick with an anecdote about nick griffin having a homosexual experience as a young man to pander to homophobia.

    In UAF, we don’t pander to racism. We work across all political parties (searchlight is labour-only) with the support of every major union in the country, community organisations (eg. london citizens provided help for the carnival), faith groups and others, and we fight both the racist lies of the bnp, and also strip away their veneer of respectability by unmasking them for the nazis they are.

    incidentally, it is true that a lot of uaf activists, and even some people who staff or volunteer at the office are swp members (paid a pittance for their time). it is also true that a number of other staff and volunteers are soialist action members. but i don’t see you raging at them, so this is clearly an attack on the swp. and to claim the left list had too big a presence at carnival is similarly sectarian – it had one stall inside, as did the green party, as did the labour party, the gmb, rmt, ucu, nut, nasuwt and various others. if you are complaining that the left list had a lot of activists – you should really think about finding some of your own, they come in handy.

    does uaf have links to local groups? i can only speak of where i’ve been active, west yorkshire, but leeds uaf is big and rooted in the unions and universities. so is sheffield uaf, and calderdale unity.

    (SENTENCE DELETED – LIAM)

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  62. I wonder if Mark P is going to retract his slur that UAF did no campaigning during the local elections when I have given him concrete examples of anti-fascist activism?

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  63. I’ll delete any further comments that take up the Searchlight / LMHR / UAF argument.

    The oddest thing has happened with this discussion. A posting reflecting on the election, what went wrong and what to do next has suddenly become one in which I’ve had to delete several abusive comments on a completely different topic. I don’t pretend to understand why this might have occurred but it stops here.

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  64. Adam. I am happy to be corrected by you in terms of South Wales. Now I wonder if you’d be generous enough to address the following

    > What campaigning did UAF do in London to stop the BNP in the GLA elections
    > Was the Carnival ill-timed, too late in the campaign to have any meaningful impact on mobilising activity against the BNP in London
    > Even so late in the day tho there was 5 days campaigning left, what materials were given out at the carnival by UAF, what effort to involve those there in campaigning, specifically Searchlight’s widely supported U-Day on the Tuesday.

    UAF clearly has a role in stopping the BNP. But to pretend it hasn’t had an extraordinarily low profile, particularly in London, during a crucial election and to suggest that it is immune to criticism while descending into these ill-thought out criticisms of the Searchlight Hope not Hate campaign, not always perfect but consistent, broad, with no agenda except stopping the BNP.

    Mark P

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  65. Mark P: Adam. I am happy to be corrected by you in terms of South Wales. Now I wonder if you’d be generous enough to address the following . . .

    Liam: I’ll delete any further comments that take up the Searchlight / LMHR / UAF argument.

    I’m in a generous mood, but Liam might not be!

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  66. I think the reason the debate has shifted to the SWP’s involvement in UAF and (on SUN) Germans involvement in StWC is because it’s an attempt by certain Renewal members to discredit and remove revolutionaries from positions in the labour movement in an attempt to consolidate their political hegemony.

    It ties in very nicely with what Glyn has written because after the abject failure of the left during the election which way forward does the left travel? We’re seeing a struggle over the political direction of the left between those who are still wedded to the Labour left and those who want to build something outside Labour.

    Once again, I raise the point that there those in Renewal who are desperate for it to develop into THE left alternative. Whether that is because they are keen to reassert the politics of the Labour left; have no other home to go to or they are antagonistic to anything involving the SWP depends on the critic. Probably a mixture of all three prevails.

    The outcome of all this will be protracted infighting emmanating from a few in Renewal who are determinted to assert their agenda. The rest of the left who have learnt the lesson from the election will ignore the majority of this and get on with organising in the unions and against the BNP.

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  67. I also believe that there are those in Renewal who have moved on and want unity and it’s very important not to get hung up on the few that want to perpetuate the fued. The debate about how to organise against the nazi’s and campaign against the war are relevant and ongoing. It’s just a shame when they’re used as an excuse to perpetuate the fued. 😦

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  68. “We’re seeing a struggle over the political direction of the left between those who are still wedded to the Labour left and those who want to build something outside Labour.”

    Really, you are more deluded than we thought. Respect wish to build a left of labour alternative – by definition that must be outside labour. But do we want to talk to those inside or still loyal to labour – you bet we do. Why? because we are not satified with being caught in an ultra-left bubble.

    “The rest of the left who have learnt the lesson from the election will ignore the majority of this and get on with organising in the unions and against the BNP.”

    Please get on and do it then Ray and stop going on about how everyone’s out to get the poor SWP. It’s boring. It’s so so boring.

    But please don’t try the amateur phsycology stuff trying to understand our motives. You are so wrong on every level.

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  69. Phil the reason I haven’t bothered answering your question is because your mind is already made up. You pose it as an excuse to perpetuate the feud.

    The SWP has formed alliances with lots of organisations who have been critical of it. Just read any of their publications to confirm that.

    Having political criticisms about an organisation is healthy but when it becomes a personal attack based on lies then no one in the SWP or any other organisation for that matter is obliged to engage with such unfraternal behaviour.

    I believe that answers your question in a clear and concise manner. I assume, as is your modus operandi, that you’ll spin your own interpretation on it but then a leopard can’t change its spots (we live in hope.)

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  70. TLC when I need to reference you for psychological insight I’ll be sectionable.

    “Please get on and do it then Ray and stop going on about how everyone’s out to get the poor SWP. It’s boring. It’s so so boring.”

    LOL! You’re one of the chief stirers. You can’t survive without your regular feuding fix.

    “Respect wish to build a left of labour alternative – by definition that must be outside labour. But do we want to talk to those inside or still loyal to labour – you bet we do. Why? because we are not satified with being caught in an ultra-left bubble.”

    You rubbish the UAF and attack the StWC and you claim you want to relate to the rest of the left? Your slavish patronage of Livingstone does not represent “talking” to what’s left of the Labour left. It represents total capitulation.

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  71. Having political criticisms about an organisation is healthy but when it becomes a personal attack based on lies then no one in the SWP or any other organisation for that matter is obliged to engage with such unfraternal behaviour.

    That’s fair enough, but my question wasn’t about criticisms of the SWP; it was about criticisms of individual SWP members who are prominent in broader organisations. Here it is again:

    Given that John Rees is a leading figure in RESPECT/LL, which is not identical to the SWP, is it legitimate for non-SWP members of RESPECT to criticise Rees’s actions – or will any such criticism lead SWP members to close ranks?

    I know you think I’m just trying to make trouble, but I actually think this is quite an important question.

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  72. The point is Phil you are selective about who you criticise in Respect so your bias does not encourage confidence in your criticisms. Secondly, the criticisms of Rees are either based on lies or on hypocrisy and as such should not be taken seriously. Rees is a leading member of the SWP and in singling him out (as with German) the real agenda of the critics is transparent.

    Prior to the split Rees is praised for his work by all. Post split he’s characterised as a monster by the splitters. And you expect the left to take this issue seriously? It’s time to move on.

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  73. In reference to TLC’s comment about psychoanalysising I was trying to convey that those of you who indulge in this fued are coming across as a bunch of wingers and that’s not a very attractive or compelling strategy when it comes to involving people in left politics.

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  74. It’s quite easy to stop feuds with three golden rules:

    1) Don’t respond in a tit for tat fashion- instead make a political point and appeal for unity in action
    2) Engage in political discussion in a polite fraternal manner not dodging questions or fearing sharp points but emphasising the fraternal nature of the discussion even if this needs to be laid on thick
    3) If the point has no political substance or one that has already been answered several times or is extremly rude or offensive don’t respond at all

    In relation to the fascists I think we all agree on here or enough of us anyway that we need a pateint systematic campaign of fighting cuts in services, housing, privatisation etc allied with an anti BNP campaign and actively confronting the racist arguments given daily exposure by the tabloid papers with a class analysis.

    There porbably is within this space for a more detailed examination and political discussion about th eins and outs of UAF, Searchlight and others

    But in the context of actually building vibrant unuted fronts in the localities.

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  75. While the SWP is being its usual Stalinist self, it’s true that RR has to expand and broaden its alliance, if it wants to keep an MP.

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  76. “While the SWP is being its usual Stalinist self, it’s true that RR has to expand and broaden its alliance, if it wants to keep an MP.”

    While Nejat is being his usual sectarian self, it’s true that he has to expand and broaden his horizons, if he wants to unify the left.

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  77. Ray and Nejat you’re breaking the rules and responding tit for tat and apoltically-

    Nejat, saying the SWP is Stalinist deflects from an otherwise good point that the working class movement needs to expand and build up alliances- e.g. between militant workers in different areas.

    Unifying the left in action (not organisationally necessarily) is a good idea not really facilitated by insulting people as either Stalinist or sectarian.

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  78. Ray. You genuinely believe that you are standing above the fray whilst the rest of us are just perpetuating a feud. Get real.

    If we have a criticism of particular SWP actions then respond to that criticism rather then try to impune our motives/invent reasons/ make things up. Let us debate the issue – not the motive, real or imagined.

    To be absolutely honest I have no idea why the SWP leadership have taken some of the decisions they have over the last few months. I’ve no idea why you support them. No one has yet managed to persuade me that this fits into the political tradition of the SWP – a political tradition of which I am mostly in genuine agreement.

    And believe me we have discussed this. My Respect branch in Manchester has ex-SWP members within it whose combined membership amounts to well over 100 years. We just don’t get it.

    But we disagree with the actions taken. And we can debate that.

    I don’t want to discuss the physcology of Rees or German – because that can’t explain why the membership goes along with it.

    Now when it comes to the actions of RR members you need to have the same approach if you want a genuine debate. I don’t know who you are. You don’t know who I am. (though if we met face to face I’m sure we would). But please do not pretend to know my mind.

    And please do NOT accuse me of things which are not true. I have not attacked UAF or Stop the War. I am a founding member of both organisations in Manchester. And please “slavish patronage of Livingstone”? – a little sense of perspective might not go a miss. You have a different view it is clear. You view was over-whelmingly rejected by the voters last week. Our view was also rejected thought not be quite as much as yours. Some humility would not go a miss.

    But you know what ‘Ray’ there are almost a million people who voted for Livingstone and they will be very disappointed that he lost. If you don’t want to talk to these people then fair enough – call it capitulation – I don’t really care but the debate about how to defeat the Tories, BNP, etc will involve many of these people so get used to it.

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  79. “The SWP is now turning to the industrial front as the most fertile field for growing resistance to neo-liberalism. ”

    Isn’t this where we came in?

    *Gathers coat, moves towards exit.*

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  80. TLC I haven’t bothered to read the your predictable rant against the SWP. Take a pinch of Jason’s advice and move on.

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  81. Still not quite right, Ray- but hey.

    Really TLC and Ray are in substantial agreement- let’s get building a wider united front to really revitalise politics, to have campaigns that win and out of this working class movement we can make decisions about whether we need a new party, what is it, whether to stand in elections etc.

    Nothing is ruled out but we have to build/rebuild a left that barely exists at the moment.

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  82. Jason I accept your good intentions but your call for unity is falling on deaf ears with Renewal. I can either choose to ignore the sectarian anti-SWP rants from certain Renewal members or treat them with the contempt they deserve.

    You might like to pop over and witness the latest attack on the SWP at SUN. Then tell me we can work with those who indulge in such sectarian and petty behaviour. I wouldn’t trust any of them to watch my back on a demo against the BNP let alone go canvassing against the BNP with any of them.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s no point working with those in Renewal who perpetuate the fued. It’s counter-productive and isn’t helping to rebuild the left.

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  83. Stop exaggerating Ray. You should follow the rest of us and leave the SUN alone. Its boring above all.
    And as it happens it is perfectly possible for RR members and the SWP to work together, I was personally witness to just such an occurence last night, at the Convention of the Left organising meeting in Manchester.
    And as you say you can either ignore unpleasant remarks or react to them. Ignoring them is far the best policy.

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  84. modernityblog Avatar
    modernityblog

    What a depressing thread, a positive microcosm of parts of the British Left, detached from reality, sectarian pointing scoring, hubris, “my Party, right or wrong” and basic technical illiteracy

    Searchlight’s statement on the UAF is here, http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=146

    “This month Searchlight leaves Unite Against Fascism. Searchlight had members on UAF’s steering committee but, like others, we found it difficult to function when decisions were being made elsewhere. But the prime reason for our departure is because it is incompatible for us to be in an organisation that is pushing a different strategy to our own. We believe that localised campaigning on broader issues than racism, fundamental as racism is, is the key to turning back the British National Party’s electoral advance. ”

    and contrary to Adamski’s wild assertion that “Searchlight …made a bizarre accusation that UAF believed in a black-led organisation and the SWP were anti-semitic.” Searchlight’s statement contains none of those points.

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  85. “TLC I haven’t bothered to read the your predictable rant against the SWP”

    So predictable that it wasn’t actually a rant against the SWP. I simply stated that I do not understnd their actions and how they fit into the history and traditions of the SWP and that many ex-SWP members also don’t understand them.

    I also suggested a little humilty – from all sides.

    Now I’ve spoken to someone who was at the Convention of the Left planning meeting last night in Manchester. By all accounts there was genuine agreement across almost the entire meeting about the conventions timetable – though obviously with shades of emphasis.

    A Respect member informed me that the two groups clearly with most agreement were in fact the Respect people and the SWP people.

    So let’s not perpertuate a feud – it helps no one.

    But please Ray – unless we are able to criticise and disagree – me about the SWP just as you disagree with Respect – without it being dismissed as a sectarian rant then we’ll get no where.

    Sometimes those disagreements will be fierce. That shouldn’y worry anyone – but let’s debate the issue, the strategy, the tactic or whatever rather than the motives – real or imagined.

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  86. bILL j: “Stop exaggerating Ray. You should follow the rest of us and leave the SUN alone. Its boring above all.”

    yes please.

    Sinvce the SWP and other ultra lefts stopped disrupting debate our readership has gone up.

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  87. Don’t thank me, you’re welcome to it.

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  88. I do think an organisational unification is needed, a broader pluralist socialist party. SWP, on the other hand, hates pluralism, because they can’t control it. They were Stalinists when they kept Respect under their paws, and they are showing their true face again with the Stalinist lies and smear campaign they’re mounting against RR.

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  89. Sad that Glyn cannot see the wood from the trees. It would be true to say that its the end for ‘Left List’ but Respect did quite well on the whole, considering the circumstances, with much to work for and solid foundations both in East London and Birmingham where we gained a Council seat – no mean achivement)
    I suggest that Glyn reads this :
    EAST LONDON – HOW GOOD WAS RESPECT’S VOTE?
    http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2307

    As a Respect member I can assure Glyn that I am very confident about the future, not based on self delusion but on facts. Sad that so many of whats left of the ‘Left List’ will not , even now, own up to the disaster that the SWP have led them into over the last six months and by all accounts wil continue to do so while men and women of integrity say silent.

    Neil Williams

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