The online edition of Socialist Worker carries news of a march to stop the BNP. Martin Smith and Weyman Bennett acting on behalf of Love Music Hate Racism tell us that it has called a national demonstration against the Nazis in London on Saturday 21 June with a message “stop the BNP now”. LMHR is calling on all other anti-racist groups, trade unionists and progressive political parties to support the protest.

As Ernest Mandel once remarked “the victory of fascism expresses the inability of the workers’ movement to resolve the structural crisis of late capitalism in its own interest and to its own ends”. He was writing at a time when many more millions of workers in Europe were organised in unions and parties but his essential point is clear. To effectively resist fascism socialists have to rely on the strength of the organised working class to defeat it and that includes working with social democratic organisations and their supporters.

That can even mean working with organisations with which one has had strong disagreements. Trotsky, describing the Russian experience of the united front and Kornilov’s attempted counter revolution, writes that “the Bolsheviks did not content themselves with a general appeal to the workers and soldiers. The Bolseviks proposed the united front struggle to the Mensheviks and the Social Revolutionaries and created with them joint organisations of struggle. (The Struggle Against Fascism in Germany p102-3).

Criticising the policy of the German communist Party he wrote: “to say to the Social democrat workers: “Cast your leaders aside and join our “non-party” united front means to add just one more hollow phrase to a thousand other.”

These are pretty clear pointers to an honest approach to building a genuine united front. You openly approach the organisations that represent sections of the working class and propose practical tasks around which you can successfully collaborate. It does not require any level of political agreement other than opposing the fascists but it does oblige the socialists to acknowledge that no single organisation has hegemony over either the anti-fascist struggle or the united front. The agreement has to be severely practical and transparent.

As several contributors to the recent post-election discussions have remarked there are a number of issues of immediate concern around which there are real opportunities for collaboration. Rolling back the small advances of the BNP is one such opportunity and the experience of the German left’s failures is one from which we should learn.

71 responses to “United fronts then and now”

  1. i’m shocked, a post i agree with!

    within a united front socialists and marxists should not hide their politics. use the joint struggle to win reformists, anti-fascists and others to revolutionary socialist ideas.

    trotsky was arguing for the kpd to unite with the spd in action, but also to use the opportunity to prove to reformist workers that they were the best fighters against fascism, and win them to communist ideas and to the kpd in the course of the join struggle.

    in britain, we need to unite with the trade unions and other working class forces in an anti-fascist movement, but not drop our own politics, and not to hide criticisms of trade union leaders for their inaction or labour leaders.

    we must continue to argue for fighting and democratic unions, and a new trade union based workers’ party armed with a socialist programme to deal with the social and economic problems which fuel fascist support.

    comradely greetings,

    ks

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  2. Good point.

    I think the Lmhr demo is worth supporting but the way it ha been called has to be criticised.

    Why not now try to revive and create a proper antifascist united front AS A MATTER OF URGENCY

    Why not get together trade union branch reps, Black groups, community groups, anti-racist activists, UAF groups, National Assembly Against Racism, SWP, Respect, ISG. Permanent Revolution, AWL, Socialist Party to discuss and plan the way forward –

    This has to be done and soon.

    I agree on this with ks- though have a difference of opinion what socialism means – it means the working class taking power through our democratic organisations, not simply a socialist program- but I defintely agree with the
    “need to unite with the trade unions and other working class forces in an anti-fascist movement, but not drop our own politics, and not to hide criticisms of trade union leaders for their inaction or labour leaders.”

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  3. I have to say that I think the SWP are getting themselves in a bit of tizzy about the BNP.
    It all leads to them posturing as the vanguard leading the massed forces against fascism.

    But that’s not really the situation.
    The BNP are a threat, in the same way that a toothache is. Sometimes it can be controlled with painkillers, sometimes it requires an extraction, sometimes it turns out it was that damned whitening toothpaste you were using.

    At the moment the BNP are nearer to option 3 and can be controlled with some Arm and Hammer.

    The SWP are in danger of making themselves look complete pillocks, thinking that because the ANL took off in the late 70’s, the same approach must be relevant now. A bit like someone trying to win the next World Cup using Alf Ramsey as a model.

    More of a problem over the next two years will be preventing a return of the Tories. Buffoonery aside, when the going gets tough, they will be quite right wing enough……

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  4. Preventing a return of the Tories is certainly a bg issue as well but if we can revive working class united fronts and militancy both agianst fascism and crucially against privatisation and service cuts generally then we can begin to undercut racism more generally.

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  5. Jason, this idea is mistaken in terms of its lack of scale and ambition

    “Why not get together trade union branch reps, Black groups, community groups, anti-racist activists, UAF groups, National Assembly Against Racism, SWP, Respect, ISG. Permanent Revolution, AWL, Socialist Party to discuss and plan the way forward – ”

    I think this is indicative of why you don’t see a problem with the LMHR march. the issue isn;t whether the SWP can gather together the massed ranks of the Trotskite diaspora, but how we mobilise the mass organisations of the working class, alll other progressive movements, BME groups, and everyone else interested in defending multi-culturalism and democracy.

    We need to be able to mobilise the trade unions not at the level of individual reps, but through the official structures over the issue of opposing fascism. One of the big troubles of trh LMHR initiative is that it is not something we can credibliy go to the unions with.

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  6. Andy I think you may be misunderstand.

    I am saying let’s get together a meeting of activists to see how we can build a big united campaign in the communties and in the unions.

    We may well be able to get some of the union tops certainly.

    Also the following comments are wrong, inaccurate:

    “the issue isn;t whether the SWP can gather together the massed ranks of the Trotskite ”

    I explicitly said – and you quoted me- “trade union branch reps, Black groups, community groups, anti-racist activists, UAF groups, National Assembly Against Racism,” that is not Trotskyist ranks (massed or otherwise)- some of the goups at the end may be but that’s because there are readers of these tendencies on this site

    My call is almost identical to
    “the mass organisations of the working class, alll other progressive movements, BME groups”

    Secondly and again inaccurately you say
    “you don’t see a problem with the LMHR march”

    Where did I ever say that? I started my post

    “..the way it ha been called has to be criticised.

    and have said so several times on SU- of course no one would suggest boycotting the lmhr march but it is completely wrong footed as I said to repeat

    ” we need a wider movement and democratic accountability”

    We need to build a mass movement.

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  7. One of the big troubles of trh LMHR initiative is that it is not something we can credibliy go to the unions with.

    Absolute toss. Bhe bulk of funds for the lmhr carnival was raised from trade union donations. This is something it’s very easy to motions to unions over. It sounds more like you’re not going to put this to your union, which is more troubling.

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  8. Well of course you can go to unions about LMHR- Bolton NUT supported the antiracist carnival presumably aliongside hundreds of union branches.

    However, it is still better to have a much wider process of consultation such as I outlined above trying to involve all the different unions, Black communities, activists.

    They’re not counterposed but I think we need a genuine united front against fascism.

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  9. Ok Jason, communicating in writing leads to misunderstandings, doesn’t it!

    One of the worries I have is that the situation requires a unity of purpose that needs patient bridge building, and negotiation, and if people feel they have been bounced into backing an action then that can be counterproductive.

    What i think is likely with this march is that it will be treated as one initiative among many, and not prioitised by the forces who can actually deliver a mass turnout, and will be a minor but benign diversion from the serious task of anti-BNP work.

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  10. OK thanks Andy

    I agree with you on the need to turn to forces and cultivate unite fighting organisations that can deliver a mass turn-out.

    I think actually Liam has quite skilfully used a quote from Trotsky to illuminate how we should proceed -though I’m generally against using quotes from the greats in working out how to proceed now this one is appositie and perhaps just perhaps may make those self-identifying with aspects of Trotskyist tradition think.

    ‘To effectively resist fascism socialists have to rely on the strength of the organised working class to defeat it and that includes working with social democratic organisations and their supporters.

    That can even mean working with organisations with which one has had strong disagreements. Trotsky, describing the Russian experience of the united front and Kornilov’s attempted counter revolution, writes that “the Bolsheviks did not content themselves with a general appeal to the workers and soldiers. The Bolseviks proposed the united front struggle to the Mensheviks and the Social Revolutionaries and created with them joint organisations of struggle. (The Struggle Against Fascism in Germany p102-3).

    Criticising the policy of the German communist Party he wrote: “to say to the Social democrat workers: “Cast your leaders aside and join our “non-party” united front means to add just one more hollow phrase to a thousand other.” ‘

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  11. Theres the SWP who in a bizarre new interpretation of the ‘united front’ have bypased the organisation they themselves founded and hold the joint secretaryship of, UAF, to call a ‘national demo’ througth the half-empty streets of London on a Saturday. Their usual imaginative contribution to campaigning.

    Then theres another bunch of leftists who while not exactly impressed with the SWP version of anti-fascism spout the usual guff about getting the unions, LGBT, black communities etc together to buold a big campaign against the BNP.

    Neither seem capable of recognising the local, patient work catried out by Searchlight supported by all the major trade uions, locally and nationally, to build effective community-led campaigns against the BNP. Not the ‘spectacular’ of a national demo but a damn sight more effective and worthwhile.

    Have a bit of humility. Just because this work takes place outside the orbit of the Far Left doesn’t invalidate it, in fact thankfully free of the dead hand of lerftism is the very reason such local campaigning is woirking and deserrving of support. Leftists are desperate to reinvent the wheel forcing the obvious conclusion thatthey prefer an ineffective campaign they at least control to an effective one they don’t.

    Have a visit to http://www.searchlightmagazine.com

    Its where mainstream anti-facists have been getting on with the unglamorous job of stopping the BNP while these leftists get up to their usual line in gesture politics.

    Mark P

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  12. Bizarrely enough, I agree with both of you. I think there are big question marks over Searchlight. I also think they get the job done with regard to the BNP far more effectively and consistently than any other organisation that’s out there at the moment.

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  13. In the absense of anyone else on the left calling an anti-nazi demo I think it’s great that LMHR have called one. If LMHR can get over 60,000 people to a carnival funded by the unions then it’s already got a reputaion for being able to organise on a large scale.

    Why not make the demo as big as possible? It’s the perfect opportunity for Renewal supporters to flood the demo with their banners and leaflets as can other organisations on the left who attend. Let’s make ourselves really visible on the day so that the nazi’s and the rest of the population know that there’s a big opposition to fascism out there. It’s the perfect opportunity to promote the left and expose the nazi’s. It’s a chance to for the left to demonstrate some sort of unity. Don’t miss it!

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  14. “Its where mainstream anti-facists have been getting on with the unglamorous job of stopping the BNP while these leftists get up to their usual line in gesture politics.”

    Ok, get Searchlight on the demo. There’s room for everyone.

    On the point of who gets things done the ANL and the left got rid of Beacon on the Isle of Dogs, kicked them out of Brick Lane and organised that huge demo at Wellingborough so I wouldn’t write us off yet. Searchlight was involved in these campaigns so it demonstrates that together we’re stronger and divided we’re weaker.

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  15. Plainly there should be activity, of the broadest possible kind, directed against the BNP, or any other racist organisation.

    However, what is the focus of the proposed demonstration? I am, of course, aware that the BNP has gained a single seat on the GLA. I am not sure what a ‘spectacular’ (if indeed that can be pulled off) is intended to achieve.

    Whatever form they take mass demonstrations, or celebrations like concerts, are intended to be intimidatory – we’ve got the numbers. If this cannot be reflected at a local level, then what is gained?

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  16. “Whatever form they take mass demonstrations, or celebrations like concerts, are intended to be intimidatory – we’ve got the numbers. If this cannot be reflected at a local level, then what is gained?”

    I hope it can be reflected at a local level. I remember during the 90’s different groups would organise local events and demo’s. There was a vibrancy to the anti-nazi protests that seemed to develop out of a DIY attitude. I lived in Hackney and as well as the ANL stuff I was involved in the squatters movement and various other orgs and events that were anti-nazi.
    Even though we supported the ANL stuff we didn’t just wait until a call came out from ANL head-office nor did we factionalise around who should or shouldn’t be organising/speaking at demo’s. We just got on with it! It was a grass roots as well as a nationally organised campaign. Let’s hope that instead of feuding over who should lead the demo we get on with organising locally. Don’t wait for a nod from the (various) leaders – let’s get on with it ourselves.

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  17. Dave Festive: “it’s where racism and homophobia are pandered to”

    It’s not the only place

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  18. We do need “the local, patient work carried out …supported by all the major trade uions, locally and nationally, to build effective community-led campaigns against the BNP”

    This is absolutely fundamental and for example is what led to the fascists being marginalised in Oldham because of Oldham United Against Racism’s patinte systematic work.

    This is not to argue that this is counterposed to big demos- one feeds into the other. But big demos cannot be simply called for.

    The LMHR demo has been called and we should support it in the same way as if Galloway or any other figures on the antifascist left claled a demo- but I think there does need to be a much wider and more patient approach as well.

    Therefore I think it;’s worth getting together various groups such as UAF, National Assembly Agaomst Racism, Black community organisations, Trade Unions and the left etc together to see how we cna plan the way forward.

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  19. Liam
    In your header you mention “Rolling back the small advances of the BNP”

    Which small advances were these? If you are still in denial about the level of the BNP breakthrough in London, which if unchecked will result in them taking B&D in 2010, then you havent got hope of stopping them. Where is the left alaysis of these results? Why is the left still denying that the BNP vote came from working class areas and working class people?

    Lets be honest with ourselves as to the failure of old tactics, the blame which can be put squarely on Searchlight and their underlings. They need to be ostracised, then we can move on.

    First stop, a council by election in South Hornchurch ward in a month or so. Will the left fight this election,and win the arguements on the doorsteps, or not?

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  20. There seems to be little discussion about what kind of anti-fascist activity should be conducted. It has become quite clear that the ‘their leaders are Nazis really and some have got criminal records’ approach, along with wishy-washy ‘love music/poetry, hate racism’ guff doesn’t work. Until we address the reasons why working class people turn to the BNP then we’re wasting our time. And those reasons include disillusionment/anger with the mainstream capitalist parties, especially New Labour. So lets remember that next time somebody associated with Labour or selling out, (politician or union leader) stands on a platform pontificating about how nasty the BNP are, they’re not likely to convince BNP voters/sypathisers.

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  21. will somebody stop phil arrogantly telling everyone else to have humilty all the time. its the sort of thing that causes unrest.

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  22. will somebody stop phil arrogantly telling everyone else to have humilty all the time

    Eh?

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  23. whoops. will someone tell johng to stop arrogantly confusing phil with mark p and causing no end of humility to everyone. personally i think what united fronts require is more personal humiliation. or something.

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  24. Could Mark P point me in the direction of “the local, patient work carried out by Searchlight supported by all the major trade uions, locally and nationally, to build effective community-led campaigns against the BNP” in Birmingham. I seem to have missed it and I am quite active in trade union and socialist politics locally.

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  25. Digger

    The situation is patchy. In someparts of the country most of the anti-facist work is done folowing Searchlight’s approach, in either areas it is the UAF.

    Given that 600000 leaflets were given out in London during the recent elections, including 50000 in barking and dagenham, clearly that is an area where there is a lot of Searchlight activity.

    Two years ago the only BNP campaign in the whole West country was in Swindon, and we collaborated very successfully with Searchlight.

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  26. What’s with this either or stuff? Come on! Searchlight can do their own thing but let’s remember that UAF is following the very successful strategy of the ANL. Why does there have to be a counterposition between Searchlight and UAF?

    It’s worth pointing out that despite Searchlights strategy in East London the BNP did relatively well and got elected to the GLA. So before people go rah, rah Searchlight and boo, hoo UAF/LMHR let’s have a bit of perspective here.

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  27. I agree, Ray, it should not be posed in this oppositional way. It is worth, however, taking some time to think about how we can build a genuine movement that has local roots, that mobilises people agianst the politics of despair and for a genuine socialist alternative.

    I know there are various rivals out there trying ot be that socialist alternative- I think therefore at this stage what we can begin to build is community campaigns, fights that unite- against privatisation, against cutbacks, cutbacks etc.

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  28. yeah but jason, i don’t think you’d find anyone who’d disagree with you. the point is that an artificial polarisation is built into the discussion about this iniative that revolves entirely around the debris of the implosion of the old respect. its why if you go over to that dreaded other blog, the discussion started around the question of where the march was going to be held, then flipped over quickly to a discussion of who was going to be invited and then quickly on to long diatribes about why the swp were not suited to this that or the other. the object of the whole discussion was not about fighting the fascists at all.

    Its not so much depressing as just entirely pointless.

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  29. “It’s worth pointing out that despite Searchlights strategy in East London the BNP did relatively well and got elected to the GLA. So before people go rah, rah Searchlight and boo, hoo UAF/LMHR let’s have a bit of perspective here.”

    LMHR said that it was “particularly” their carnival that stopped the BNP getting a bigger vote. How was it “particularly” the carnival that stopped the BNP?

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  30. johng- if you feel that way don’t debate with them then.

    I only do it because 1) I think there are some good people on the blogs, 2) it sort of helps occasionally with clarifying arguments 3) it can help advertise genuine initiatives

    However, it is much better to get out there and win people to the local grassroots campaigning needed. In the ssens that an occasional snippet on a blog fills a bit of time while you;re cooking the tea or whatver we don’t lose anything and it may help locate political allies

    I agree sectarainism is a little depressing but hey we have to build new networks and co-operate with those forces who are willing to co-operate- there are some on both sides of the apparent divide even if some bloggers give a good impressions of being wrapped up in bitter resentment

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  31. johng: well, that’s your, SWP-centric, point of view. Others of us think that discussion about what initiatives to take, co-operating with others in the movement who clearly command greater forces than us, concerting a posistion with those who we have built alliances with, and not disparaging all the aforementioned… all this and more is, many us who oppose fascism think, vital to achieving that objective.

    Your party has called a demonstration. Your party represents the thinnest sliver of the working class – contra the KPD. Your party calls a demonstration in the name of a front that excludes the very forces that are needed to confront this task. You pop up and moan that other people are pointing out truths that in an academic lecture, with a suitable level of abstraction, you would accept. Throughout it all, johng, you will be mobilising nothing for the demonstration you are moralising to the rest of us about – ain’t that the truth?

    People will turn up on on 21 June. But don’t, please, think of this as a great success. It’s already failed in relation to what is necessary.

    John: go and ask those close to the national headquarters exactly what this perspective is supposed to mean. You’re good value in one respect – at least you demonstrate the full idiocy of the line your leaders have developed but never try to justify (not least because you and those like you who know it’s suspect never speak out).

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  32. “You’re good value in one respect – at least you demonstrate the full idiocy of the line your leaders have developed but never try to justify (not least because you and those like you who know it’s suspect never speak out).”

    With comments like this Nas you contribute nothing of value to the debate about how to fight the nazi’s. And to think, we’re supposed to be on the same side. :raises eyes in despair:

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  33. “LMHR said that it was “particularly” their carnival that stopped the BNP getting a bigger vote. How was it “particularly” the carnival that stopped the BNP?”

    It’s an ironic that you don’t feel confident enough to reveal yourself or your political affiliations (but we can guess) yet you attempt to expose the irony in the statements of others.

    Could it be that the combined effort of anti-nazi’s helped reduce the nazi vote? Could it be that the Tories stole their thunder? Let’s acknowledge that there are a combination of circumstances that affected the nazi vote. So the antagonism towards LMHR/UAF that is being generated after the election by Searchlight supporters is ironic considering the BNP still got a seat on the GLA despite Searchlights self-proclaimed “success” in East London. Perhaps that’s not irony but tragedy?

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  34. A couple of friends who aren’t particularly interested in socialist politics thoroughly enjoyed themselves at the carnival. They were really fired up by it and are hoping there will be more events like it.

    The point I’m making is that rubbishing LMHR is a dangerous game for the left because unlike some jaded activists a lot of the people who went to the carnival were fired up by it and the fight against the nazi’s. Dismissing these thousands of people because they don’t have the right political credentials or the correct strategy is foolhardy and squandering their potential involvement in the fight against the nazi’s. We want to use the LMHR events to draw people into further action whether it’s organised by LMHR/UAF/Searchlight etc.

    The carnival was funded by the trade unions and has their support among other organisations on the left so the criticism that LMHR is an SWP front or that it doesn’t consult with the rest of the labour movement is untrue. The fact that I’m justifying the obvious is rather ironic considering the critcisms aren’t coming from the trade unions but from a small clique who support Searchlight.

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  35. “Let’s acknowledge that there are a combination of circumstances that affected the nazi vote.”

    I do. So why was it “particularly” the LMHR carnival that held back the BNP? Why not say “along with” or “as well as” or “in addition to that, the great LMHR carnival”? Why claim that the carnival did more than the other campaigning, as LMHR does?

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  36. well yes in general jason i’d decided not to. but i was amazed to discover the levels of sectarianism and obsessiveness that riddled discussion of even an attempt to call a demonstration against the fascists.

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  37. “Why claim that the carnival did more than the other campaigning, as LMHR does?”

    That’s completely untrue so really your arguement is an excuse to perpetuate the fued against anyone associated with the SWP or any organisation that involves the SWP. This is obvious from your attack on German.

    When you want to have a debate about a strategy for fighting the nazi’s then let’s proceed.

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  38. John don’t be too amazed. If I remember correctly Mark Wadsworth led a seperate anti-racist demo in central London while the ANL had organised one at Wellingborough. There are always going to be splits but we have to promote our strategy regardless.

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  39. Got his name wrong – Marc Wadsworth who has joined in the attack on Livingstone’s SA advisors on Harry’s Place. 😦 He was in ARA so I surfed over to their website where their links page promotes Searchlights Hope not Hate Campaign but no mention of UAF and LMHR. 😦

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  40. “That’s completely untrue so really your arguement is an excuse to perpetuate the fued against anyone associated with the SWP or any organisation that involves the SWP. This is obvious from your attack on German.”

    The LMHR press release claims it. It claims that anti-fascist campaigning, PARTICULARLY the carnival, helped hold back the BNP.

    LMHR claims that. Why?

    Here is the quote:

    “Without the anti-fascist campaigning prior to the election, and particularly last Sunday’s huge Love Music Hate Racism Carnival, the BNP would undoubtedly have gained more seats in London.”

    Why “particularly” did the carnival help? And why did you not even do basic research before claiming that what I said was untrue?

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  41. irony as you seem to be incapable of having a political discussion and just want to perpetuate the fued perhaps you like to tell me why you object to the word, “particularly”? Do you, for example, have any evidence to the contrary? If not then your opinion is just one among many regarding the effect of the anti-nazi campaign. How is your one track line of questioning going to throw some light on how to organise against the nazi’s, particularly?

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  42. modernityblog Avatar
    modernityblog

    there seems to be two issues here

    1) how best to oppose the BNP
    2) how to find unity across the Left in this matter

    1) I think the Left needs to change tactics when dealing with the BNP, as it looks as if they’re going to evolve into some FN (le Pen) type fascist grouping

    so harking on about “Nazis” is a limited slogan and may not have the impact that it had years ago

    2) unity, a marvellous idea, however, unlikely to succeed if the SWP wishes to sanitise Hamas, as Richard Seymour seems to be doing in his latest post, http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/05/their-fascism-and-ours.html

    I could, of course, be wrong but either way, such a PR exercise on behalf of Hamas might leave a bitter taste in the mouth of potential allies, particularly when it comes to defending synagogues, which are being attacked in East London, see http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=1892

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  43. so it is clear that RR are opposed to this mass demo against the BNP. Perhaps GG and his lot will organisae a rally got him and Ken down the road…really sectarian and pathetic. RR remind me of the WRP..”Why we are not marching” eaflet at grovenor square. The they go on about how brilliant searchlight is.. just the fact that they issue islamaphobic leaflets but hey bash the SWP so anything is fine.. vote berry as long as its not the SWP.. is this where the FI has ended up.

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  44. jj – have a look at the post and most of the subsequent comments. There is a theoretical reference and an historical example of building a united front.

    If you find it too much of a challenge to rise above your customary level of abusive rant against anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you please feel free to post elsewhere. There must be an audience somewhere that will appreciate it. I know a park where a lot of Special Brew drinkers gather from mid-morning if that would help.

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  45. Nas wrote:

    “People will turn up on on 21 June. But don’t, please, think of this as a great success.”

    The demo hasn’t even happened yet!

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  46. Ray is (I’m sure unwittingly) rewriting geography. The ANL demo against the BNP’s headquarters was in Welling (southeast London) rather than Wellingborough (Northamptonshire).

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  47. Can I be the first to point out Liam’s insensitivity to Special Brew drinkers etc, etc? Maybe not. It IS true though Liam. I didn’t write it, but over at SUN and in some of the comments here, my first thought was that WRP leaflet. In terms of wanting United Fronts to be as broad as possible etc, etc, I don’t think you’ll find anyone in the SWP tradition who disagrees (hell I’d march even with modernity against the fascists despite the fact that we disagree about almost everything else). Some people might even march with Richard Seymour although obviously this is distasteful to most given his unfortunate personal habits and appalling weblayout.

    I’ll always remember Hallas explaining to dogmatic trot that the critique of the popular front was not in fact that they were ‘popular’: one thing worse then a popular front being an unpopular front. More then this and more seriously its obviously also true that there is a distinction between ultra left ideas about ‘united fronts from below’ and ‘united fronts from above’.

    However missing from your account is the way in which sometimes, in order to get the ball rolling in new situations it IS neccessary to take an iniative and see what happens. If the goal of this iniative would be to ‘expose’ those who do not join in, in the hope that the scales will fall off the eyes of hapless centrists and reformists, well then yes, we are in the presence of sectarian and ultraleft idiocy of the worst type.

    If on the other hand its felt that a demo like this would be genuinely popular and useful as a mobilising tool for all those who want to fight the fascists, for various reasons some who we would want involved don’t however want to come along just yet, and we hope they come along later, that would be perfectly sensible.

    Anyone who remembers Lewisham will remember the sharp arguments put foward against the move by elements in the Communist Party and Labour Party and indeed sections of the Trade Union Bureacracy against the demo, before, during and subsequently. However they’ll also remember, subsequently large sections of the same people wiping their mouth afterwards, and going, ah well perhaps it was a good idea after all.

    Now whats being proposed is simply a demo through London, as a certain Mark P has been rather aggressively re-iterarting, and nothing nearly so alarming as a bundle with the fash in South London. The base for it is a successful carnival (which recieved considerable trade union sponsership) and, so I understand from things comrades have written, sections of the trade union movement coming on board (although it should be said, aside from on here and on SUN I’ve not heard of any hostility, although I’m sure Nas will be on hand to explain the sweeping and pulsating rage that is sweeping through unnamed sections of the nation even as I pontificate).

    Now I think its a very good idea to have this demo. And I don’t think every idea has to be the product of thirty or forty commitee meeting, full consultation, and a partridge in a pear tree. I think the SWP and a number of associated organisations have every right to take iniatives of this kind, and I also think that other sections of the movement have every right to make their own minds up about these things. The attempt to read this as some kind of degeneration into sectarianism is I think both misconceived and somewhat meanspirited towards what could be an important event for the whole left.

    I’m not entirely convinced that for some people the issue isn’t the initiative, or even the way it was called, but those who are seen to be centrally involved in calling it. And thats always a mistake in my view.

    frats etc.

    Like

  48. The BNP have made advances, small but significant- 55 fascist councillors up from 45 (though in some places their share of vote fell significantly)

    Meanwhile the Conservative right that only a few years ago seemed finished are renewed, looking triumphant

    Attacks are growing on the working class- privatisation, evictions, and immigration raids.

    The working class is more divided and weakened than ever and the left?

    The left are thrashing about insulting each other, offering no solutions to workers but calling each other special brew drinkers and the WRP

    What to do? It’s depressing but I think we have to face up to some key issues-

    1) We are in a position of weakness not strength- there are no decisive class wide battles to draw in new activists

    2) Meanwhile attacks continue whether racist attacks or attacks on living standards and morale that drive some desperate workers into the arms of fascists (though in their right-wing populist garb- most BNP voters are racist but not fascist notwithstanding the essentially unchanged nature of the party core)

    There are no short cuts- there is a long term project to repair the fighting organisations of the working class, which provide us with the best defence against the immediate threats and the greatest chance of building the longer term potential of the working class to rule.

    This require patient painstaking no doubt boring at times (though satisfying at others) work of winning workers to defend their conditions and fights that unite disparate parts of the community- against a hospital closure or post offices or youth centres or school privatisations.

    This is part of it but we also need a patient, even humble, dialogue on the left to confront the ideological reasons for our defeat and to find new ways and words with which to engage working class militants.

    I think Liam is right on the importance of Trotsky’s conception of the united front
    “No common platform with the Social Democracy, or with the leaders of the German trade unions, no common publications, banners, placards! March separately, but strike together! Agree only how to strike, whom to strike, and when to strike!”

    But merely plucking Trotsky quotes offers no real solution. For a start the fascists now (as often in recent history) grow from the betrayals of social democracy- in my opinion we still need a united front with the unions and even Labour lefts but it’s not enough. We also need community grassroots working class democratic campaigns within which socialists pose socialist solutions but also propose and build united action with as many workers as we can win to our sides.

    The SWP’s current approach of simply calling demos without the grassroots campaigns and patient discussions is mistaken I think- though nobody on here has yet suggested (except perhaps modernityblog) boycotting the LMHR event- I certainly think we should build it but see it as only one focal point not a substitute for the necessary painstaking work.

    We also need to recognise that fascism is not yet a major social force- though at the margins it is certainly a very real danger see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3927318.ece for how a family were subjected to racist abuse, violence and now being prosecuted for self-defence

    That’s because we are not yet passing though one of those great historic hours of social crisis- but our work now is just or nearly just as important in preparing the ground, rebuilding the ideological weaponry and morale and assembling the troops of the working class for the coming social convulsions that will soon enough openly pose the questions of power.

    But we also need to confront the fact that most all working class people don’t understand what we’re talking about – we need to rebuild those traditions of working class militancy- the fight against fascism and the fight against privatisation and many other issues provide fertile ground to begin this work.

    We need to pose our arguments in new vocabulary with new examples- and all this can only be in dialogue with the working class forces we are attempting to create.

    Above all we need to change the way we approach things- no one group has an exclusive monopoly on the right way of doing things nor is there any positive role for venting our frustrations on one another.

    Patience, humility and sobriety are required.

    Like

  49. The BNP have made advances, small but significant- 55 fascist councillors up from 45 (though in some places their share of vote fell significantly)

    Meanwhile the Conservative right that only a few years ago seemed finished are renewed, looking triumphant

    Attacks are growing on the working class- privatisation, evictions, and immigration raids.

    The working class is more divided and weakened than ever and the left?

    The left are thrashing about insulting each other, offering no solutions to workers but calling each other special brew drinkers and the WRP

    What to do? It’s depressing but I think we have to face up to some key issues-

    1) We are in a position of weakness not strength- there are no decisive class wide battles to draw in new activists

    2) Meanwhile attacks continue whether racist attacks or attacks on living standards and morale that drive some desperate workers into the arms of fascists (though in their right-wing populist garb- most BNP voters are racist but not fascist notwithstanding the essentially unchanged nature of the party core)

    There are no short cuts- there is a long term project to repair the fighting organisations of the working class, which provide us with the best defence against the immediate threats and the greatest chance of building the longer term potential of the working class to rule.

    This require patient painstaking no doubt boring at times (though satisfying at others) work of winning workers to defend their conditions and fights that unite disparate parts of the community- against a hospital closure or post offices or youth centres or school privatisations.

    This is part of it but we also need a patient, even humble, dialogue on the left to confront the ideological reasons for our defeat and to find new ways and words with which to engage working class militants.

    I think Liam is right on the importance of Trotsky’s conception of the united front
    “No common platform with the Social Democracy, or with the leaders of the German trade unions, no common publications, banners, placards! March separately, but strike together! Agree only how to strike, whom to strike, and when to strike!”

    But merely plucking Trotsky quotes offers no real solution. For a start the fascists now (as often in recent history) grow from the betrayals of social democracy- in my opinion we still need a united front with the unions and even Labour lefts but it’s not enough. We also need community grassroots working class democratic campaigns within which socialists pose socialist solutions but also propose and build united action with as many workers as we can win to our sides.

    The SWP’s current approach of simply calling demos without the grassroots campaigns and patient discussions is mistaken I think- though nobody on here has yet suggested (except perhaps modernityblog) boycotting the LMHR event- I certainly think we should build it but see it as only one focal point not a substitute for the necessary painstaking work.

    We also need to recognise that fascism is not yet a major social force- though at the margins it is certainly a very real danger see times (link won’t post) how a family were subjected to racist abuse, violence and now being prosecuted for self-defence

    That’s because we are not yet passing though one of those great historic hours of social crisis- but our work now is just or nearly just as important in preparing the ground, rebuilding the ideological weaponry and morale and assembling the troops of the working class for the coming social convulsions that will soon enough openly pose the questions of power.

    But we also need to confront the fact that most all working class people don’t understand what we’re talking about – we need to rebuild those traditions of working class militancy- the fight against fascism and the fight against privatisation and many other issues provide fertile ground to begin this work.

    We need to pose our arguments in new vocabulary with new examples- and all this can only be in dialogue with the working class forces we are attempting to create.

    Above all we need to change the way we approach things- no one group has an exclusive monopoly on the right way of doing things nor is there any positive role for venting our frustrations on one another.

    Patience, humility and sobriety are required.

    Like

  50. To follow up on johng’s post, Lenin went over the heads of other people with influence all the time, if there were a group of workers who wanted confrontation when confrontation was necessary it was important to unite with them and drive the movement forwards, the next key link in the chain. The tactic worked as a pincer movement on the rest of the movement.

    Like

  51. “Lenin went over the heads of other people with influence all the time, if there were a group of workers who wanted confrontation when confrontation was necessary it was important to unite with them and drive the movement forwards, the next key link in the chain”

    Sure but we need to build and connect the grassroots movements as well. I’m not against the LMHR demo one bit- I’m for building it. Though may be it sould heve been called with more forces- but whatever the main point now is to build it and the wider movement.

    Within that context I think the whole of the left does have some serious thinking to do including all groups and traditions- political discussion is fine and necessary, insults a mere distraction.

    Like

  52. “The SWP’s current approach of simply calling demos without the grassroots campaigns and patient discussions is mistaken I think- though nobody on here has yet suggested (except perhaps modernityblog) boycotting the LMHR event- I certainly think we should build it but see it as only one focal point not a substitute for the necessary painstaking work”

    I think Jason this might be a bit quick. One needs to differentiate different arguments. There is an argument coming from those like Mark P and (sometimes) AN which opposes localism to national level events, and at the same time wants to move anti-fascist work onto the same plane as other discussions about broader re-alignments. I actually don’t have a lot of objection to either, what I have an objection to is the kind of diochotimies being presented.

    I don’t think you would find anyone in the SWP who thought that patient grass-roots work was not neccessary, and I think its a bit presumptious to imagine that many of the iniatives the SWP has been central to could have been possible at all without a lot of patient grass roots work, but they would argue that national focus remains important.

    I don’t think you would find anyone in the SWP who thinks the anti-fascist movement can be built ‘simply’ by calling demonstrations, and by ignoring the rest of the left etc. What you do have is a particular call for a particular demonstration, with relative and in my view, entirely appropriate haste and urgency, in the aftermath of the London elections, not an argument that local grass roots work is unimportant, or that the movement against the Nazies doesn’t have to be built on the broadest possible basis.

    There would be those (and this would be a serious political argument) who believed a) that national demos should not be called until backed up by appropriate grass roots work, in other words such things are worthless unless the grass roots network is already in place and b) that the calling of demos should never be done until everyone was agreed on their neccessity.

    Now this is not at all the same kind of argument as the rather strawman argument about the SWP’s position (I found myself nodding through some of your post Jason, although overall the analyses is a bit too pessimistic for my taste, but was then puzzled by your presumption that an SWP member would disagree with much of it, a presumption which seems to flow entirely from the interpretation of a call for a demo in London seen on these RR related sites, but nowhere else), and insofar as people have seriously localistic politics on the one hand, and dogmatic adherence to the idea that there has to be universal concenus before any demo is called, I would (respectfully) disagree.

    Both would I think have the effect of stifling work that is vital, not only in itself, but for the future prospects of both local grass roots, and on the other hand, more consenual mass movements. And yes, its true, I do think its likely that the SWP has a vital role to play in this. My suspician remains that it is this which really sticks in peoples craw. I think this is a shame, but as the man said, ‘we have’nt gone away you know’.

    Like

  53. its a bit odd at first sight this searchlight business. its unfortunate that they resigned from unite although it has to be said that in their statement they warn precisely against stirring up divisions in the anti-fascist movement which some (not all) have done in relationship to this discussion, and I’d credit them for that.

    whats odd is that I would have thought that many people in Renewal would have understood the problems with the kind of stance that they took in relationship to questions of Islamophobia (although I fully accept that you should be very careful about reading official positions into organisations on the basis of random postings from individuals on these two sites).

    The only rationale I can think of for this is the kind of localism espoused by Mark P, whose calls for humility etc differ from Jason’s in the sense that they represent, as far as I can see, a political critique which is absent from Jason’s interventions which in the main seem to be truism’s which no one would really object to, rather then a radically different take on what the left should actually be, as opposed to how they should behave, which I take from Mark Ps interventions (which my age handicap I’m afraid makes me very, maybe too, cynical about).

    I was wondering though whether some of this reflected a kind of playing to the strengths of RR (ie significant and real local bases) but on reflection I think this is to jump to conclusions. All in all I think the over-reaction to all this is just a bit silly, although I fully share Jason’s frustrations with the general fraticidal nonsense (even though I suspect he thinks that I’m as guilty of this as anyone). Even if Jason, if truth be told, is doing a PR type intervention, I certainly think that in the eyes of most non-aligned people nobody walks away with glory from any of this, and so some of what he says I take on the chin.

    I hope he’s right that at the local level this kind of thing isn’t dominant. Actually I’m sure he is. However whilst a lot of this is just down to the silly world of blogging I do think there is a need to snap out of the paralyses of the split and just be a bit grown up about it (ug my least favorite phrase). The behaviour of some around this demo was just really disheartening in this respect. At some point Mike Rosen’s point made many moons ago about the damage this kind of thing does to everyone ought to hit home.

    Like

  54. “Now this is not at all the same kind of argument as the rather strawman argument about the SWP’s position (I found myself nodding through some of your post Jason, although overall the analyses is a bit too pessimistic for my taste, but was then puzzled by your presumption that an SWP member would disagree with much of it, a presumption which seems to flow entirely from the interpretation of a call for a demo in London seen on these RR related sites, but nowhere else), and insofar as people have seriously localistic politics on the one hand, and dogmatic adherence to the idea that there has to be universal concenus before any demo is called, I would (respectfully) disagree. ”

    Thanks. I take your point that perhaps that many SWP members would agree with my general points and have edited the section you objected to
    “Simply calling demos isn’t enough without the grassroots campaigns and patient discussions”

    I.e. leaving aside the implication that that is what LMHR did-

    On this specific I agree people are getting too het up- it sort of seems that maybe it was called without much consultation but I do agree that sometimes an initiative needs to be taken. Arguing about it now seems almost pointless- if it is agreed that we do try to assemble wider forces and indeed, as you agree, build patiently through grassroots work.

    As for pessimism- I don’t intend to come across as pessimistic. I think we are in a weak position but that can be changed. I think decisive battles lie some years ahead- but it probably can be years rather than decades depending on how quickly and deeply working class organisations are rebuilt. The scale of doing this is enormous but it possible I think (many find me too optimistic on that!)

    “Even if Jason, if truth be told, is doing a PR type intervention, I certainly think that in the eyes of most non-aligned people nobody walks away with glory from any of this, and so some of what he says I take on the chin.”

    Again thanks- I’m not sure what a PR type intervention is though. If you mean to say join PR or we alone have the right answer I hope it’s fairly explicit I’m not doing that.

    Finally
    “a political critique which is absent from Jason’s interventions which in the main seem to be truism’s which no one would really object to, rather then a radically different take on what the left should actually be, as opposed to how they should behave”

    To some extent some of my points are truisms of course but they are worth saying I think
    “We should be patient” “there are no quick fixes”

    However, I think there is an analysis behind it.

    Firstly, on period and perspectives. Class struggle and working class organisation are at a fairly low point- socialist ideas are not generally current; we need to make our arguments in new ways and not assume familiarity with terms, references and shared mythology that once would have been current. That doesn’t mean abandoning socialist politics or the idea that the working class can rule and transform society but it means rearticulating it in new ways. E.g. on a school strike against change of employer. This school is our school- those who work and study in it and we should run it as part of a society where all services and work is run democratically by workers and consumers. How? On the basis of workplace and community committees and councils with fully elected and fully revocable delegates- that is if course soviet democracy but makes perfect sense in the context of a strike to oppose privatisation. But we also need to realise that the class wide decisive battles are some way off.

    Second point is the left does need to change the way it acts and relates to people. We can’t come up with all the answers from the outside but must instead become fully involved in working class activities and communities. We have our ideas- they are not the finished product but something in evolution and development.

    I think there is no point in pretending that society can just go on the way it is with a few tinkerings. There needs to be real change. But people won’t rally to us instantly or even quickly. There’s a lot of groundwork that needs doing. Socialism has to be about popular participation and working class ownership of struggles as a school for working class ownership of the means of production, distribution and culture.

    I think that there are a number of people in the SWP, in Respect and other organisations who are interested in a genuine dialogue and learning. There are also a number of militants non-aligned who we also need to engage with and produce more militants from new activity.

    Anyway a nice change from the usual blog interactions!

    Like

  55. When I say learning I mean we all need to learn from the struglges and the workers we meet and organise alongide in those struggles.

    My edited piece is here
    http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=2104

    Like

  56. I think John means “PR” as in public relations. It’s a credit to you Jason that in the face of quite severe provocation at times you continue to remain fraternal to both parties in the split. It must be a zen thing and a strong commitment to working with others. I think Liam also manages to achieve this which is a credit to him as well. I share your objective but sometimes lose my patience unfortunately which is quite detrimental as it makes things worse.

    The split has managed to overshadow the lefts agenda over the last 8 months so it must seem like an unwelcome imposition to those on the left not involved but caught up in it. Hopefully it will dissipate and we can get back to focusing on important issues like stopping the BNP.

    chjh is right, I meant Welling. No wonder there was no one there when I turned up in Wellingborough lol. Geography was never one of my strong points.

    Like

  57. I thought I’d heard the sound of one hand clapping last time I was in Wellingborough!

    Like

  58. Yes I didn’t mean that you had no analyses Jason (I regret using the word truism which sounds a bit too dismissive). Just that unlike Mark P you were concerned with how the left ‘behaves’ (not unimportant of course) rather then conducting an analyses which suggests that the whole left in essence is rotten (something which I don’t accept). we can disagree about the detail of the former in fraternal ways without dismissing these kinds of question.

    My point was that in Mark Ps and sometimes AN’s point there is an analyses with which I’d have real fundemental political disagreements, but disguised by comments about said ‘behaviour’. Hence the need to ‘differentiate’ between different kinds of critique. By PR intervention I did’nt mean Public Relations, and was indeed referring to your membership of that organisation, but was saying that whether or not you were motivated to make a political intervention, that was no reason to be dismissive (after all I too could be accused of making similar interventions).

    One difficulty with the Mark P and AN position (the analyses of pluralism having its reality in familiar denunciations of ‘Russian dolls’) is that just being a member of an organisation and having a political position is regarded as inherently suspicious and ‘arrogant’. This leaves aside that both, in their different ways, have very specific types of politics and, as is of course there right, argue hard for such politics.

    The notion that ones own politics are just common sense whilst everyone else is ideological, is obviously the oldest misconception in the book. Calling yourself pluralist and humble does not neccessarily make you so. Most of us are aware that the most undemocratic and bureacratic practices in our movement do not come from Leninist organisations but from allegedly more pluralistic Social Democratic ones. One reason why people stick with the SWP is that fighting this lack of accountability in the movement requires organisation and yes, on occassion, discipline. For many of us, inside and outside the SWP, the search for ways of breaking through the complete absence of democratic accountability of the movement we do not choose to be in, any more then we choose the society we live in, remains the priority, and the question of how to do this does not reduce itself to everyone being pleasent with each other.

    This does not rule out the need to guard against dangers or making neccessary criticisms, but it is neccessary to have a sense of perspective on this, sometimes missing on these threads, where you would almost believe that the main problem in the British Labour movement is a bunch of fisheyed trots. It is quite simply, a deeply misguided starting point for analyses of either the movement as a whole, or indeed mistakes which those of us who are Leninists might have made.

    Too much of the language used is too similar to the kinds of thing you are likely to hear from a disciplinary panel dominated by right wing social democratics. Quite a few members of the SWP and indeed recently, the SP have had experiance of that kind of thing. Its rather more serious then the (very regretable) falling out on the left over the last year.

    Like

  59. Oh Jason also read this at the bottom of the press release:

    “LMHR and Unite Against Fascism will be setting up rallies against the Nazis around the country. LMHR will also be organising a series of anti-BNP gigs, culminating in a carnival in the north of England in May next year.

    We also have to work to combat the BNP at a local level. We need to encourage trade union branches, schools, colleges and community groups to set up groups that expose the BNP’s lies”.

    Like

  60. Kabir the 15th century Saint Poet on sectarianism (ahem):

    The World is mad.

    Saints, I see the world is mad.

    If I tell the truth they rush to beat me,

    If I lie they trust me.

    I’ve seen the pious Hindus, rule followers,

    early morning bath-takers-

    killing souls; they worship rocks.

    They know nothing.

    I’ve seen plenty of Muslim teachers, holy men

    reading their holy books,

    and teaching their pupils techniques.

    They know just as much.

    And posturing Yogis, hypocrites,

    hearts crammed with pride,

    praying to brass, to stones, reeling

    with pride in their pilgrimage,

    fixing their caps and their prayer beads,

    painting their brow-marks and arm-marks,

    braying their hymns and their couplets,

    reeling. They never heard of soul.

    The Hindu says Ram is the beloved,

    The Turk says Rahim.

    Then they kill each other.

    No one knows the secret.

    They buzz their mantras from house to house, puffed with pride.

    The pupils drown along with their gurus.

    In the end they’re sorry.

    Kabir says, listen saints:

    They’re all deluded!

    Whatever I say, nobody gets it.

    Its too simple.

    Like

  61. johng- very interesting posts and thanks for the clarifications and quotes and Kabir poem.

    Like

  62. johng – that is a blatant attempt to raise the intellectual and cultural level of this site!

    What on earth are you doing?

    Be warned that I will draw a firm line if anyone submits their own poetry.

    Like

  63. Damn and I’d just written one-
    Rise like lions after slumber
    in unvanquishable number

    Ok that wasn’t me.

    I did do a transaltion into Amharic

    sila anbessa
    bandinnet tenessa

    which rhymes (lit. meaning like lions rise up in unity)

    But johng has set the bar high with his honesty and actuall attempt to engage with issues rather than just point-score

    Are we seeing the beginning of a turn in the culture of blogging?

    (Probably not)

    Like

  64. Very likely BNP will stand in South Hornchurch by election which is pending. They came second to the Tories in this ward on the assembly list vote- polling 24.3%, and was their highest numerical vote for a single ward (908- although they polled higher % votes in other wards)

    Like

  65. Actually Liam, it would be sensible to ban anybody attempting THEIR OWN poetry (something which has caused enourmous suffering to generations of socialists). I can see the danger that posting OTHER peoples poetry (whilst inoffensive in itself) might open the door to such horrors though. Your caution is well merited. Personally whenever someone gets up in a meeting and suggests that what the left needs is more culture I run out of the meeting screaming with hysteria and fear. I remember street theater. Never again comrades, never again.

    Like

  66. COMMENT DELETED AND DON’T BOTHER COMING BACK JJ.

    Like

  67. You see JJ you were doing alright until the last sentence.

    Like

  68. The most scary words in the English language:

    “I’ve written a poem, can i read it too you?” …shudder.

    Like

  69. In relation to an earlier discussion, it is clear that Sian Berry and Jenny Jones did try and court the Zionist vote:

    Green candidate: no to boycott

    Like

  70. is there a “Zionist” vote in Britain?

    Like

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