Pigs fly on cold day in Hell – who would you vote for?

June 12, 2008

2–3 minutes

Normally when a senior member of the Conservative Party does or says something halfway decent, and it’s not that normal, the natural human response is “what’s the slimy toad up to?” It’s a useful question and you can normally work out a satisfactory answer within a minute. That does not seem to be the case with David Davis’ decision to resign his parliamentary seat and cause a byelection. It really does seem to be due to his intense anger at Labour’s success in passing legislation which allows people to be held without charge for forty two days.

The odd thing is that many of the points he makes to justify his decision have been made in the pages of virtually every socialist publication in the last ten years. Here are some examples:

Yesterday this house allowed the state to lock up potentially innocent citizens for up to six weeks without charge.
The generic security argument relied on will never go away – technology, development complexity, and so on – we’ll next see 56 days, 70 days, then 90 days.
We will have shortly the most intrusive identity card system in the world. A CCTV camera for every 14 citizens, a DNA database bigger than any dictatorship has, with thousands of innocent children and millions of innocent citizens on it.
We have witnessed an assault on jury trials, a bolt against bad law and its arbitrary use by the state.
The state has security powers to clamp down on peaceful protest and so-called hate laws to stifle legitimate debate.

He has decided to give up his post as shadow Home Secretary to fight an election campaign on the issue of civil liberties and nothing else. Cameron’s position as Tory leader is unassailable at the moment so any suggestion that it’s part of some very subtle leadership bid seems to be out of the question. By the way in which these things are measured he’s been a more than competent Tory potential minister.

Unless someone can come up with a better explanation it looks like we may have just witnessed a senior politician getting so angry about something that he has decided to act on principle. As I observed yesterday Brown had to rely on the votes of a party that is on the extreme right of European politics. Just like Martin McGuinness. My working hypothesis is that this site does not have too many readers in the constituency of Haltemprice and Howden but what a dilemma if you lived there! Come polling day do you vote Labour because of its links to the working class and support for locking up people with darker skin for six weeks? Or do you vote for the single issue candidate saying something you know to be true and whose victory would be interpreted as a defence of civil liberties? This is the swamp New Labour has crawled into.

26 responses to “Pigs fly on cold day in Hell – who would you vote for?”

REM

June 12, 2008 at 10:03 pm

Well, my instant reaction to this was that the tories have found a perfect opportunity to out flank NL on the left after their latest disastrous ultra-right wing lurch.

This provides the tories with a perfect opportunity to gather up most of the libertarian vote and help cement them to cameron’s new caring tories. I think its a win win situation for them. Who on the left or in the centre in their right mind would vote NL on this basis?

Its probably a safe tory seat anyway and with NL nosediving at the polls there is little risk here.

Personally I would vote for neither. The links with the TU movement have to now be weighed up on a case by case basis. If a left candidate stood pointing out the hypocrisy of both parties then that’s where we should be…in my view

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Jason

June 13, 2008 at 5:25 am

People are a bundle of contradictions so it is possible that Davis has a principled objection to this.

But he is also a member of a party that will rule ruthlessly on the part of the rich and it is a very shrewd move to make that party seem more governable.

Of course this wouldn’t work if Labour were not so repressive and so hated.

Who to vote for is in my view less important than a genuine attempt to build a socialist and working class movement which may include supporting creible candidates of struggle with a connection with working class campaigns.

If over the last ten years the left had got our act together we may have been in a very different position. However, rather than lament what might have been we should concentrate on what to do now.

This could include initiaiting and supporting a series of united front campaigns, rooted in wrking class communities, against privatisation, against cuts- post office and school closures for example, against racism, the wars, attacks on civil liberties and evictions and taking these issues to the Convention of the Left to agree action points around which we can all agree, act and draw in new activists (whilst showing we can debate in amature friendly and attractive way issues that we don’t agree on so we don’t repel people but draw them in)

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Chris Brooks

June 13, 2008 at 8:58 am

The “what next” question is not for whom should socialists note in that constituency (clearly, we should vote Labour if no left candidate stands). rather, the issue is that the Tories have found a popular and hegemonic lever to create a new position for themselves in the mind of the public. While Davis’s actions are a crude stunt that have angered cameron’s team, it may be highly effective. If The Sun runs against Davis, then the Tories may do even better at washing away the stink of their previous crimes.

Instead, socialists have to point out the two-faced nature of the dispute between the capitalist politicians on this matter, and that the Tories have backed other repressive measures.

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PhilW

June 13, 2008 at 12:15 pm

New labour’s reactionary policies may be poison to the black community and labour activists who they may need to rely on to get re-elected, but unfortunately these classic attacks on the “enemy within” are not unpopular everywhere. From yesterday’s Torygraph:

“An opinion poll for the Daily Telegraph reveals that an overwhelming majority of the public are in favour of the plans. The YouGov survey found that almost three quarters of the public (69 per cent) support raising the detention limit rom 28 days to 42 days “in exceptional circumstances”. A quarter (24 per cent) oppose the plans.”

This is because we have been softened up on this issue for over thirty years now.

What I find odd is how notables like David Davis have suddenly discovered that detention without charge for 42 days is so terrible when parliament has progressively increased this from 7 days since only 2003 (it was then 48 hours, plus an extra five days on agreement of the home secretary). This seven days was inherited from the 1974 Prevention of Terrorism Act, which Roy Jenkins at the time described as “draconian” and were allegedly emergency powers that had to be renewed every year by parliament (which they were up until 2000, when they became “non-temporary”). Up until 1974, you had to be charged within 24 hours. I don’t know what the situation is now for non allegedly-terrorist offences.

Gareth Pierce on Ireland-Islamophobia-Reppresion: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n07/peir01_.html

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JimPage

June 13, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Completely Bizarre set of events. Libs not standing- nor are UKIP, BNP standing aside for David Davis (assume they want 420 days) and Kelvin McKenzie standing on a hang em and flog em ticket as an Independent

Time for a socialist canddiate?

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Muon

June 13, 2008 at 1:30 pm

‘Time for a socialist canddiate?’

With the sum total of the left vote last time being a princely 12% for Labour, I can’t see a mad rush to stand. Perhaps some high profile consistent left-winger with a serious record on civil liberties would be nice, but who?
And where is this place anyway? Somewhere the left would need a good map even to find I’d guess.

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Jason

June 13, 2008 at 3:58 pm

The BNP have put out a statement for support for Davies apparently according to someone on Campaign Teacher e-list.

Muon- good point. I think far more important is setting up and participating in processes (such as the Convention of the Left has done) to try and build, rebuild and revive a working class movement. Probably not in the first instance concentrating on Haltemprice and Howden.

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Keith

June 13, 2008 at 4:39 pm

And where is this place anyway?

Haltemprice and Howden is a constituency which starts on the west of Hull and stretches to near Goole. It does not include any major urban area and includes soem very well off areas. To put it mildly it is not fertile ground for the left at the moment.

Many of those living in the Haltemprice part are people who have moved out of Hull as a way of, for example, getting their kids into schools in the suburbs rather than than attend the inner city schools in Hull. The Howden part is rural with quite a few commuter villages.

Keith in Hull

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modernityblog

June 13, 2008 at 6:50 pm

putting up a Left candidate would certainly get a LOT of free publicity, either way and be the main opposition to the 42 and 25 days, pointing out Davis’ hypocrisy in the matter

it could flesh out some pre-General Election arguments against the Tories

be bold, the Convention of the Left should stand, and do it quickly

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Prinkipo Exile

June 13, 2008 at 7:25 pm

Craig Murray would make a good independent left/anti-war candidate.

He has a strong track record of defence of civil liberties, but more particularly was opposed to the Iraq war. Davis voted in favour of the war and supported the Blair of course.

More to the point, Murray also took a principled stand (against the policy of appeasement with the Uzbek government) for which he paid the price with losing his job, but still fought the government against his victimisation.

Murray is more of an extreme radical liberal rather than a socialist, but he also defends the welfare state and trade unions. He is in a better position to capture the large Liberal Democrat vote in this constituency, than somebody from the Labour tradition. But he has been active in Stop the War and spoken well from platforms. Since he is friendly with all sections of the Left and the Green Party he could command a lot of support from the radical left of Labour as well as appealing to both Liberal and Labour traditions.

Worth a go to try and persuade him I would say.

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modernityblog

June 13, 2008 at 7:44 pm

is the Convention of the Left so bereft of potential candidates that we’d have to turn to some one like Craig Murray?

is the Left so weak that it has to support extreme radical liberal front men?

the point is not to pick another honcho, but to use the publicity for a broader platform, there is not a hope in hell’s chance of winning the election or gaining a significant vote, that’s not the point

it is to use elections as vehicles for wider publicity, for the ideas (not for the glory boys or media stars, etc)

so all you need is a fairly good articulate speaker, not a famous face, not a bleeding liberal, however, extreme or radical he is

there must be one candidate coming out of the Convention of the Left?

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 8:18 am

“putting up a Left candidate would certainly get a LOT of free publicity, either way and be the main opposition to the 42 and 25 days, pointing out Davis’ hypocrisy in the matter

it could flesh out some pre-General Election arguments against the Tories

be bold, the Convention of the Left should stand, and do it quickly”

Interesting post and a bold idea that I like.

The tasks ahead I think are to rebuild a movement, not just an electroal force- however, it is true that elections can provide a time of heightened political discussion and even activity so can be used to build a movement so I wouldn’t rule out standing candidates of struggle.

The problem though in terms of posing it in this way is that the Convention of the Left has not taken place yet so it is hard for a candidate to be selected.

If the organisers – i.e. organising committee- suggested a candidate this would go against the whole idea of trying to promote a ne inclusive way of doing politics- not by committee but by building a working class movement with its own democracy.

A candidate of struggle perhaps on a single issue- e.g. consistent civil liberties against the war, Guantanamo, Belmarsh and Abu Ghraib may work.

The longer term taks though is to build a real movement- direct action, protests, strike against capitalism’s attacks and join the dots between the different campaigns.

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modernity

June 14, 2008 at 1:28 pm

a week in politics is short time

instead of being bound up by a bureaucratic mentality the Convention of the Left should quickly have a short meeting (whatever does the job) and pick an interim candidate, not a George Galloway figure, not a Degsey, just a confident speaker

because if you don’t. we’ll be waiting until next year for things to get sorted out

Time is of the essence and so the Left better act quickly even if that doesn’t dot all of the i’s or cross all of the t’s

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bill j

June 14, 2008 at 1:36 pm

But the Convention of the Left is not an electoral organisation, so won’t be standing anybody.

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modernity

June 14, 2008 at 1:58 pm

sigh, well, it might make an exception in this particular instance and do some work?

rather than sitting around in conference rooms passing motions, feeling great, it would be better to quickly put together some name as an electoral uniting agent (try Left Opposition, etc, anything snappy)

then use the election to build up the Convention of the Left

see ? action leading to unity

alternatively, wait a few months, let this golden opportunity pass you by, pass some motions, have the formality of a democratic structure, and then be ignored by the working class…hmm

better to attack the Tories, even if things are not fully sorted out to everyone’s satisfaction, that’s more important than the formality of paper motions and committee structures

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Also, though I’m not averse to the idea in principle, the Convention of the Left whilst a national event with national backers is mainly being organised in Manhcester.

The idea that we can have a quick meeting to contest an election in Yorkshire in less than four weeks’ time is hardly serious. If we can rebuild the left to a state of serious organisation then such quick action may be conceivable in the future as though change does not only or even primarily come about through elections they can be useful. However, we have to build a movement

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 4:16 pm

Having said that and although it’s a long shot I think it could be a good idea for some of the organisations involved as well as local campaigns to get together a candidate.

The reality though is I fear that we are collectivley in scuh poor health that it would hardly warrant the expesnse and hard work involved. I hope I’m wrong. May be modernity could approach some of the people s/ he is involved with to see if it’s a goer

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modernityblog

June 14, 2008 at 4:46 pm

Jason wrote:

“The idea that we can have a quick meeting to contest an election in Yorkshire in less than four weeks’ time is hardly serious.”

if the Left is serious then it will have to get its finger out, not wait for a committee to decide on every bloody thing

this is a once in four year opportunities to take the Tories on directly and it should be taken

it is possible to raise any number of negative reasons why something can’t be done, and that’s the problem with the very English left, conservative with a small c and stuck in the past (needing a committee/Convention to agree everything)

you wrote:

“However, we have to build a movement”

you build a movement by being bold, taking political chances and seizing opportunities for publicity, what better than this sorry election?

there won’t be many candidates so it could easily come out as a Tories Vs. the Left

plenty of free publicity, for the ideas, that’s the purpose

the idea is not to stand in elections with the hope that you’re going to win the safest of Tory seats and sweep forward the revolution

the point is to raise the Left’s profile, to make the ideas more accessible

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bill j

June 14, 2008 at 5:12 pm

Hardly. Its quite possible Davis will change his mind at not stand at all.
The idea that the way to build the left is to stand elections on half arsed programmes, without any implantation or local base, is very unserious.
Though no doubt some would be happy with less than 1%.

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modernityblog

June 14, 2008 at 5:33 pm

“The idea that the way to build the left is to stand elections on half arsed programmes, without any implantation or local base, is very unserious.”

I didn’t say that, why don’t you take the trouble to read what I have written?

I made the point that this is an opportunity for publicity for the Left

not some idea that winning or even getting 56 votes is good, but there’s plenty of free publicity for an anti-Tory programme (and anti New Labour)

and as they will probably be the next government, it wouldn’t hurt to get a head start

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 8:05 pm

But modernity talking of responding to what people write instead of what you imagine they write I haven’t opposed your suggestion- I have in fact asked you to see if you can act on it.

I wrote before you against committee decisions- not by committee but by building a working class movement with its own democracy.

Of course sometimes we need them but socialism will come from the self-emancipation of the working class and mass participation not by decree or committee.

All I’ve said is that it would be wrong to have the organising committee of the Convention decide before a properly democratic meeting to do something in the name of that meeting.

Actually the left does that a lot- it is not conservative to get away from socialism as something decided by an unelected committee but instead call for working class democracy and mass participation to decide on our policies.

If you or anyone else on this list or blog can find a way to convinve a candidate to stand who is willing to put her/his policies up for mass meetings to vote on or to stand on a consistent anti-war pro civil liberties basis I’d support it.

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modernityblog

June 14, 2008 at 8:30 pm

“not by committee but by building a working class movement with its own democracy.”

spouting slogans is not the same as doing something

for the last 40 years, and I suggest you read John Sullivan’s when the pub closes, such limited and literalist views of politics have dominated, and not unsurprisingly the Left is even smaller than it was three or four decades ago, despite the wealth of experience

I’ll try to put this simply because I don’t think you and your mate bill, will understand otherwise:

the working class don’t need the trappings of formalised democracy and 59 committees to decide something, that’s all well and good, but whilst this laborious decision-making process goes on the Tories and Labour put the boot in, the working class likes people who DO things, not eternal talk shops

there is a small window of opportunity it should be taken, IMO, that doesn’t necessarily counterpoise it to any long-term organisational arrangements that might be made, it just means responding to the moment, to the political moment

so its not an either or situation

my point concerning the conservative nature of the English Left is demonstrated by the last 40 years, the persistent middle-class nature of the Left, the entrenched love of “programmes”, the proliferation of so many splinter groups and their pet “internationals”, all talking about the working-class as if we are all a species of fucking newts or some invertebrate

this is an opportunity, take it or don’t take it

I’ve made the arguments for it, digests them, think about them accept them or don’t, I couldn’t give a shit one way or the other, it is ultimately your choice

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 10:09 pm

It’s not my choice, though, is it? I am not the convention of the left nor are you.

It is your choice though whether you progress your own idea- I’m noit against it to repeat for the second time. I’m not in a position to implement it for various reasons. May be neither are you- in which case this is an empty debate.

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Jason

June 14, 2008 at 10:13 pm

“there is a small window of opportunity it should be taken”

so practically what, in your opinion, should be done?

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modernity

June 14, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Nothing that I write could mean anything to those natural inheritors of Trotsky’s mantle.

I’m afraid I am worn out arguing with two leading members of Permanent Revolution, I should have known better 🙂

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Jason

June 15, 2008 at 9:07 am

You could try actually taking up some of your own suggestions 🙂

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