From comrade R we learn that in yesterday’s byelection in the Forest Ward of Waltham Forest in London the Left List candidate got 56 votes or 2% of votes cast.
56 votes for socialism
From comrade R we learn that in yesterday’s byelection in the Forest Ward of Waltham Forest in London the Left List candidate got 56 votes or 2% of votes cast.
1–2 minutes
30 responses to “56 votes for socialism”
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get lost wanker
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Is that the “jonnyrook” who got upset when I used the word “wreckers” about the SWP, and whom I took seriously enough to apologise?
Well, you certainly became useful to the CC quickly enough,
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Sad, but primarily an indication that as the electoral pendulum swings to the right (the tories) potential left voters will move back to the Labour Party as a ‘anti-tory’ vote. Similar trends may impact on Respect soon.
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Johnny – only the truth is revolutionary. You’re far too sophisticated for me to argue with so I’ll permit one revealing breach of the comments policy.
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Hmm…where has all that talk about ending the competitiveness on the left gone? Can a leopard change its spots?
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Ray if you want to end the ‘competitiveness on the left”, I suggest you have a word with the SWP:
“although Salma Yaqoob’s Sparkbrook ward returned another councillor the vote went down in the neighbouring Sparkhill and Kings Heath wards, both of which would need to see increased votes for her to win the whole parliamentary constituency of which they are a part.”
“The Left List vote was more evenly distributed across London, while Galloway’s vote was an East London centric vote.”
“Galloway’s vote is below that in 2004 – and too little to win him a career-saving place on the GLA.”
“Galloway will not be able to win a seat in the general election if he cannot win more than 11.3 percent in East London. ”
and so on … http://respectcoalition.org/
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Prinkipo, you are quoting from one political analysis of the outcome of the election that also states that the Left List did very poorly. So you can hardly complain about bias. Unlike certain leading members in Renewal the SWP is honest about the outcome of the election.
Meanwhile, certain RR members continue to disparage the election results of other socialists. Your obsession with denigrating any organisation who you perceive to threaten you is a recipe for disaster. Who, apart from other sectarians, will take your gloating seriously?
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Ray – it’s a three line post giving the date, result and location of an election result. There is no commentary on it.
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I suppose so Liam. But would you have put up a three line post on a similarly poor result from Respect (renewal)? Surely you would have attempted to analyse it and suggest postive ways forward.
To be fair, though, as you’re site is timely with news and topicality I think it’s fine but can understand why some mebers of the other side might feel got at. Really though we should think about is it always worth standing in elections and look at ways of co-operating and drawing in new forces to build a working class movement.
An example of this is http://www.conventionoftheleft.org.uk and another is an antifascist meeting that took place nearly a week ago in Manchester 5 or 6 SWP, 6 Respect, 4 or 5 others all discussing and planning ways forward.
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Many votes do not see Labour as the left wing in Waltham Forest. Labour has been Blairite on the Council. They may have seen the Liberal Democrats as a more left wing choice in the current set up. However a Liberal democrat resigned recently in Waltham Forest after being found guilty of domestic violence. I’m not sure if it was the past Councillor for this ward.
Forest ward should be a good area for a socialist challenge. Local SWPers will be very disappointed with the Left List result. It demonstrates the narrowness and narrowing of this project. RESPECT has had some good results in Waltham Forest and this LL vote shows the SWP leadership has thrown away the work of its local comrades there over the last few years when it split RESPECT. Many SWPers have jumped off the REES/GERMAN runaway train and are trying to build RESPECT renewal. Comrades in WF and elsewhere should be angry that their leadership has led them to such a disaster in this working class area. They should vote with their feet and join RR.
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I am more annoyed with the left in london, colelctively, for failing to take on the BNP in forthcoming by elections in Barking, Bexley and Havering- rather than sniping at LL for being arsed to stand
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“Many SWPers have jumped off the REES/GERMAN runaway train and are trying to build RESPECT renewal. Comrades in WF and elsewhere should be angry that their leadership has led them to such a disaster in this working class area. They should vote with their feet and join RR.”
Here we go! George a sum total of about 4 comrades left the SWP to join Renewal. As Jim states, considering none of the rest of the left could be arsed to stand in the election it’s hardly appropriate to bang on about squandering the local working class vote. Why should it be just up to the LL to raise the profile of the left in the local area?
Renewal members appear to focus on the negative rather than the positive achievements of the left.
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More comrades left the SWP to stay part of RESPECT than LL votes in this byelection. SWP comrades have got either to challenge their leadership’s direction or get off the runaway train.
I wouldn’t call 56 votes as raising the profile. Even SWPers agreeing with their leadership’s line over the recent period, should see such an electoral intervention is pointless. I think SWP comrades havent yet come to terms with the fact that LL is a much narrower project than RESPECT.
If SWP comrades really want the left to build useful electoral challenges at the next General election, they should speak to the SP and RR about not standing against one another in seats. A good start would be for the SWP to decide that LL shouldnt stand against GG in Poplar. In the eyes of many comrades outside LL, the SWP would regain some respect.
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Perhaps but we should take note of Jim Page’s point and actually start building a movement that can take on the fascists and the ruling class not exclusively in elections (though that’s no ruled out) but primarily in class stuggle
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“More comrades left the SWP to stay part of RESPECT than LL votes in this byelection.”
Stop making things up. I could also point out the zero level of support Renewal has in most areas of London let alone the rest of the country. But that would be falling into the petty numbers game that certain Renewal members and their fellow travellers indulge in. It’s a bit like the insecure boy who shouts, “mines bigger than yours!”
As for standing against each other, Renewal is as bad as everyone else so don’t pontificate to me about respect.
To be quite honest I could care less what you think about the SWP, just get the facts right. I don’t care much for Renewal but I don’t waste my time pouring over your election results in an attempt to score points. The whole of the left knows that Renewal and the LL got pitiful results in the recent elections vitually everywhere apart from a few tiny strongholds. If you think that gives Renewal some kind of edge over the rest of the left then you’re in for a shock. The electorate are fickle. None of us have a solid base and unless we work together then our itty bitty factions will never form a left alternative.You have a choice, you can either get mired down in more feuding or focus on something positive. The SWP and the LL have absolutely no connection with you or Renewal any longer so you can’t blame us for your miserable obsessions.
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Jason is right – the left in WF can raise the profile of the left outside elections.
Thankfully the LL/SWP election campaigns are not the only way the left raises its profile in the area. SWP comrades are active in other campaigns and the SP rightfully claim a base in union struggles etc..
However I’m entitled to a view over the SWP’s trajectory considering we’ve been lectured for months over how the LL is RESPECT and how successful it will be.
If LL wants to work together, its leaders really need to start building bridges and Ray might like to explain why LL needs to stand against galloway in Poplar. If he has no explanation, what is he doing to stop it?
From reading about Manchester, where the Convention of the Left is being built (an excellent initiative) it appears there is a recognition, left groups should avoid standing against each , why cant this be sorted out in London?
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Ray: ‘The SWP and the LL have absolutely no connection with you or Renewal any longer’
The problem with that Ray is that there *is* still a connection in that SWP/LL still advertise themselves as ‘Respect’ when they feel it suits them to do so. There has been no formal separation and the bank account is still frozen, as I understand it.
So in RR we’re eagerly awaiting the moment when the SWP sloughs off its Respect/LL skin, gives up electoralism for the time being, and finally agrees to a formal resolution with RR over the Respect debacle. That’s why we’re so interested in your election results.
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I hadn’t realised that socialists had won so few votes in Waltham Forest, an area where I used to live and campaign. So thanks, Liam, for the information. It is remarkable enough to be remarked on, and disappointing enough to require honest cold analysis from all sides.
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Be reasonable, Liam. In percentage terms, this is getting on for three times what Lindsey German secured in the London mayor poll. In that sense, it is a powerful step forward for the revolutionary left.
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Steph, I should point out that you stole the name not the other way round. Why would thousands of legitimate Respect members give it up to a faction that split off, has no membership, has an unelected leadership that undemocratcially decides policy by themselves? You’ve formed a new organisation so do your own fundraising. You could formally build a sub paying membership for a start.
George, sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance but the LL is not accountable to you. Why don’t you question Galloway unilateral decision to stand GLA candidates agaisnt LL? You don’t because you are trying to score points. It gets tiresome reading the same old one sided arguements from those who hypocritically do exactly what they complain about in others.
Let’s make this very clear, until there is a formal agreement between the left about standing in elections the LL and other organisations on the left (Renewal included) will stand where they like. There’s no point bemoaning this as if the last 10 months never happened and we’re all living in a rose garden. If the left wants co-operation then it can’t attack it’s supposed allies with one side of its mouth and then bemoan the lack of cooperation with the other.
Let’s hope the Convention of the Left helps resolve this and other issues. Meanwhile, the LL will do what it likes, just like Renewal, the SP etc. etc.
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“Be reasonable, Liam. In percentage terms, this is getting on for three times what Lindsey German secured in the London mayor poll. In that sense, it is a powerful step forward for the revolutionary left.”
And just 0.49% below what Renewal got across London. These are wonderful results for the left to fight over, aren’t they?
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As I haven’t been able to get an answer anywhere, what kind of campaign was fought in the ward? Did the SWP throw everything they had at it? Was the ward canvassed? Did every household receive at least one leaflet? Can anyone enlighten me?
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The comment above wasnt me !!
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Ray – whether or not you believe that RR ‘stole’ the name and went off to form a separate organisation, that doesn’t affect the way the Electoral Commission works, nor the formal constitution of Respect (which does not specify that if people boycott an unconstitutional conference they are no longer members).
It is pointless to leave Respect’s assets unavailable because of a grudge – assets built from the subscriptions of usually poor supporters, who wanted to see the money used to build Respect.
Remember that offer over negotiations from the ‘third party’ who was trusted to do the right thing by both sides in the split – I bet they would still take on the role, so that we could have as amicable a settlement as possible, and perhaps even agree not to stand against one another in elections. So how about it?
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“So how about it?”
I’m not investing much in an amicable settlement until there’s a lot more fraternal behaviour from some of your leadership. Negotiations only work when both sides are serious about coming to a settlement. The attitude and behaviour of certain leading members of Renewal on SU does not indicate a conciliatory approach so I would suggest you debate this with them first and when you all agree then perhaps negotiations will work.
By the way, the anti-Bush demo was well attended and very vocal. A good mixture of people and organisations attended. There were some good speeches and we ended up confronting the police but didn’t break through to Downing Street. My friend got bashed by a police truncheon but then she did insist of trying to climb over the barriers. Not a bad little demo for a Sunday afternoon.
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The important thing about this by-election is that the left has contested before and it has not been as poor a result apart from when Left List stood against Ken Livingstone. 56 votes is very poor compared to the possibility of more.
2002 Council Socialist Alliance 107 votes 3.4%
2004 Mayoral Respect 381 15.6%
2004 Euro Respect 514 20.3%
2004 GLA List Respect 463 18.7%
2004 GLA Constituency 466 19.9%
2008 Mayoral Left List 37 1.4%
2008 GL:A List Total 188 6.9% – Respect 136 5.0%, Left List 44 1.6%, UPS 7 0.3%
2008 GLA Constituency Left List 144 5.4%LikeLike
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Certainly but then there are all sorts of questions:
How much resources were put in;
How much were the left involved in local campaigns;
How much has the recent split affected the vote both in terms of morale of foot soldiers out on the door and perception of the party locally?
Perhaps it shows that standing in elections whilst it can be useful to build a class struggle organisation is not always useful if the extra work is not being put in.
These results are particularly poor but in the context of a poor showing by the whole of the left. There may be particular reasons for the specifically low showing in this election but no one can reasonably crow about the recent results of any of the left though in a few pockets they have had reasonable results they have been confined not generalised.
The lessons I think have to include a return to community and workplace campaigning, a continuation of the open non-sectarian debate and discussion started by the convention of the left process and perhaps some of the negotiations intimated by Ray and Steph taking place.
It’s about much more than elections- drawing in new activists and those activists involved in campaigns outside the remit of the left (e.g. about ten times our size) but an open culture on the left is a good start.
For example, some outside the left have a stereotype of the left always being bitterly divided and acrimonious. It would be good to show people it’s not true and to get stuck in community and workplace campaigns.
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No one can crow about this result. As a whole,
the left results in most areas outside of Inner East London were unspeakable. Look at, say South London, where any left party got over 100 vote in, I make it, only 6 wards. That in Bexley, the best vote for any left group was 21 votes. Sutton 31 votes. In some wards, the vote was in single figures (UPS managed a zero vote in a few)Yes, celebrate to a point the vote in Inner East London, but in the other 30 boroughs, we are far from doing well.
All thsi is not a case for retreating from elections inidentally- if anything the left should be fighting more widely
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the discussion here really illustrates how far the leninists have fallen into electoral cretinism.
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Liam redux 
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