Cover of issue 120

Alex Callinicos’s article in the current edition of the SWP’s International Socialism ‘Where is the Radical Left going?’ is significant in terms of the current debate in the SWP as well as the line of argument he defends.It marks the end of the era of John Rees’s leadership of the SWP electoral work, and its transition to the new Central Committee majority. It sets out to take a controversial look at the development of radical parties of the left across Europe and beyond over the past eight or nine years but its backdrop is the removal of John Rees and the developing debate inside the SWP which has emerged as a result.

The issue of broad parties and the radical left is a very important subject, of course — and Callinicos is right to stress that the objective conditions remain strong for such parties despite the setbacks which have undoubtedly occurred. He argues that: “Any revolutionary worth his or her salt should throw themselves enthusiastically into building these formations”. Indeed they should. But this approach is hardly reflected in the current practice of the SWP under the new majority, since the Left List is now firmly on the SWP’s back burner if not on its way out.

Callinicos, in dealing with the situation in Britain (a big section of the article deals with the emergence of the New Anti-capitalist Party (NPA) in France), fully defends the line and actions of the SWP during and after the split in Respect despite the removal of John Rees. The criticisms of John Rees seem to be confined to a few specific mistakes not the overall strategic line he developed. Alex Callinicos even repeats the myth that following the split in Respect both sides in the dispute (Respect and the Left List) “suffered electoral eclipse” in the London Assembly elections in June. Whilst this was clearly true of the Left List a glance at the Respect results show that it held its own very well.

The other myth he repeats is that the split in Respect in November 2008 was a left/right division — with George Galloway and others following the Brazilian PT and the Italian PRC to the right with the SWP defending a left-wing line.

This is no closer to reality. The issue involved was not left wing versus right wing politics but party democracy and the role and functioning of the SWP within the structures of Respect. It was the refusal of the SWP to loosen its grip on those structures and to respond positively to a proposal from George Galloway for more plurality at the top which triggered the crisis. The Galloway proposal, which involved the appointment of someone with equal authority to John Rees, was presented by the leadership of the SWP as a declaration of war on their organisation. Callinicos, himself describes the letter as an “attack on the SWP”. It was this which triggered the dispute.

What emerged after the split as Respect Renewal was not a rightist section of the old version of Respect but a section of the old Respect which defended the democracy of the organisation. Within that there was and clearly still are a range of political positions, debates, and approaches to building Respect. In fact some of the debates prevalent in the old Respect continue in the new one.

An important factor underpinning the SWP’s approach to all this was its refusal to treat Respect as a political party but to insist on seeing it (famously) as a ‘united front of a special kind’. This approach was developed by John Rees and is strongly defended by Alex Callinicos. It placed Respect as just one united front amongst four or five the SWP was involved in — this one being the electoral version. Callinicos attacks electoralism, but the SWP approach has always had electoralism in its DNA, since it only really catered for electoral situations. It meant that Respect could not develop as an all-round political party because it only came into its own when there was an election about. Most other campaigns were conducted by the SWP itself through its own structures and under its own direction.

It is not true, however — as Alex Callinicos alleges — that either myself, or Socialist Resistance, ever advocated that the SWP should dissolve itself into Respect. In fact we have argued the opposite — that it is essential that revolutionary socialists maintain an organised presence in an organisation like Respect. Such parties are by their nature multi-tendency, and this should be transparent and open and a natural part of the political life and development of such a party. Also because revolutionary socialists have a range of political ideas which go beyond those of a broad party and which need to be developed and defended in their own right. This is the situation in most of the broad parties across Europe which have emerged in recent years — in particular the successful ones.

It is true that myself, and others, have advocated the SSP model, and we still do. But we have always advocated this in general principal and not every detail of its functioning — some aspects of which could not be transported to the English situation. The size of the SWP relative to the other forces likely to be in such a party at this stage is completely different in England to Scotland and this has implications for the shape and functioning of a broad party. The issue was not that the SWP functioned as an organisation both inside and outside Respect. It was how it functioned inside and outside Respect, and the relationship between the two.

It is also true that the issue of the size of the SWP in relation to other forces was not an easy issue, but it could have been overcome given the political will on the part of the SWP. It meant that the SWP had to self-limit its numerical weight in the decision-making processes of Respect and allow it room to breathe. It meant allowing SWP members to participate without mandate. It meant the SWP doing most of its agitational work though Respect. It meant prioritising the profile of Respect over that of the SWP at public events. The SWP was not prepared to do any of these things — why would it if Respect was simply a united front and not a political party.

Alex Callinicos argues that the SWP did not want to exercise the overwhelming control that it in fact did have in Respect. This is not true. The SWP, under the leadership of John Rees, presumably with the agreement of the CC, took a conscious decision to do exactly that a long time ago — in the latter days of the Socialist Alliance in fact. They decided that they were not prepared to participate in such organisations unless they had a degree of control which, in their view, reflected their size and input into the project. It was posed in exactly those terms. It was a conscious choice. As a result if this they increased the size of the SWP delegation on the SA NC from 5 to 15 (if I remember rightly) with a caucus in advance of meetings. In reality it was a negative turning point in the positive move the SWP had made towards building broad parties in 2000 — 2001 period.

This approach was carried into Respect from the outset. Within a couple of years it resulted in a situation where there was little real point in anyone else participating on the elected bodies. You may as well just ask
the SWP what they wanted to do and not bother going. It meant that the real decisions were not being made in the leadership bodies of Respect, but in the leadership structures of the SWP and transported into Respect ready made. It was this, or a refusal to cease to operate in this way, and not some fictitious development of a left/right polarisation over the summer of 2007 which resulted in the split in Respect.

With John Rees removed from this area of work the new majority is starting to dismantle some of the achievements of the ‘broad party’ period as they establish the new ‘build the (SWP) party’ line. A good indicator of the extent of this is the attitude Alex Callinicos now displays towards the Muslim component of Respect — something in which John Rees very much took the lead when Muslims were radicalising against the war, even if he did blow it later on in Tower hamlets. It was this which led Respect to make the most important breakthrough into a migrant community ever made by a left wing organisation in Britain. Callinicos in his article now retails the standard jibe typical of many of Respect’s left critics that it was not making a genuine development in these communities at all but was simply seeking to “win votes opportunistically through community leaders”. The SWP used to rebut these crass jibes when it was leading Respect by pointing out that such an approach would not even work. They often characterizing them as Islamophobic. How things have changed.

82 responses to “A reply to Alex Callinicos on Respect – Alan Thornett”

  1. “It is not true, however — as Alex Callinicos alleges — that either myself, or Socialist Resistance, ever advocated that the SWP should dissolve itself into Respect…”
    “It meant allowing SWP members to participate without mandate. It meant the SWP doing most of its agitational work though Respect. It meant prioritising the profile of Respect over that of the SWP at public events.”

    Hmm…contradiction here? You say you didn’t want the SWP to dissolve itself and then go on to say that the SWP needed to… dissolve itself in terms of all those elements that give it an independent political existence. Thanks Alan – there are times, given the tragedy of the split, that I wonder to myself if things couldn’t have gone differently in the current context. But then I read an analysis like this and I realize that, in fact, the SWP were right. Andy Newman has the benefit of at least being honest on this question: the revolutionary left should dissolve themselves (he can correct me if I’m misrepresenting him). But Alan says one thing and calls for another in practice.
    ISGers et al, really wanted the SWP to be the dogs bodies of Respect – to carry out the shit work but not have an influence on policy relative to their weight and to, in fact, cease to exist as an organized force (that is, a force that could effectively actualize or even argue its politics and perspectives).
    What this argument points to is the fact that Respect didn’t make the breakthrough it needed to from its original base into a truly mass audience and that those who went on to form RR wanted to substitute for this failure (not so much a political failure as a conjunctural, objective problem) by creating a false internal political balance, as though it had made such a breakthrough. That Galloway’s letter was seen as a tool to achieve this goal is clear from the fact that it was touted across the internet as an attack on the SWP and was promoted as such by ex-Respect members like Liam and Andy, who promptly rejoined in order to carry the fight to subordinate the SWP. Andy has the honesty, at least, to say as much. Alan, on the other hand, seems to be deluding himself. The continuing debates inside the post-SWP Respect are evidence of this.

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  2. Alan, why not also post this on the comment on today’s Calinicos article on Respect and the SWP CC on the SU blog?

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  3. “What emerged after the split as Respect Renewal was not a rightist section of the old version of Respect but a section of the old Respect which defended the democracy of the organisation.”

    Are you sure that wouldn’t be more accurate if it read:

    “What emerged after the split as Respect Renewal was a rightist section of the old version of Respect, a section of the old Respect which attacked the democracy of the organisation”?

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  4. ‘What this argument points to is the fact that Respect didn’t make the breakthrough it needed to from its original base into a truly mass audience and that those who went on to form RR wanted to substitute for this failure (not so much a political failure as a conjunctural, objective problem) by creating a false internal political balance, as though it had made such a breakthrough.’

    In as much as I can make any sense out of the above you appear to be saying that we wanted a split because we felt it would convey progress of sorts to mask over objective constraints. Well, that is certainly a new take on affairs. One that not even Rees or anyone else in the SWP have proposed to my knowledge. It does unfortunatly also reflect a worrying decent to new depths of conspiracy theory on your part.

    Rees is going to be sacked by the SWP over his handling of the OFFU cheque and his style of leadership. GG’s letter flagged up similar issues while not requesting that his head need roll. Rees is dressing up the current fight inside the SWP by exaggerating differences in emphasis on prespectives because he thinks it gives him better ground from which to defend his position. He did exactly the same thing when the RESPECT crisis broke. Callinicos has clearly called his bluff this time on that score. Shame he fell for it last time. Shame also that if redbedhead now shares the CC majority position he did not see the light earlier when the rest of us were flagging up similar concerns.

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  5. Redbedhead: listen, switney, you’ll do yourself no favours propping up the ancien regime. It’s about to change – not utterly (in fact, not at all enough), but quite a bit. It’ll be enough to leave yesterday’s zealots tomorrows heretics. Look closely at what is happening today.

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  6. “you appear to be saying that we wanted a split because we felt it would convey progress of sorts to mask over objective constraints.”

    Uh, no. What I’m saying is – perhaps less clearly – reiterating Alan T’s point that the SWP needed to “self-limit” itself, and more so than it had (for which pains it was constantly attacked by the ultra-left for “voting against its own principles). That is, it needed to effectively eliminate its independent existence as a distinct political organization. The opening of the struggle was about achieving that aim against the wishes of the SWP – as Alan says here, as Andy and Liam have said viz why they rejoined Respect after GG’s letter, etc.
    So, no, I’m not saying you wanted a split. I don’t think so at all. I think you wanted the SWP to, effectively, take on the role of dogs body. Is that clearer?

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  7. Nas – what are you talking about? And what’s a “switney”?

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  8. redbedhead: think about it and you’ll get there. Meanwhile: did the SWP effectively limit its independent existence (I think you mean in effect limit…) when it opposed the ANL adopting a policy of opposition to all immigration controls?

    I’d say that it didn’t. Rather it affirmed its independence through its effective actions. The alternative leads to propaganist purism.

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  9. And, for the record, Ger, no, I don’t think there was any conspiracy. I think that the challenges posed by the objective situation – which you highlighted quite well on SU recently (the one where you insulted me in various personal ways) – put pressure on the various components within the old Respect, including upon the SWP. The tactic of self-limiting could only be for the purpose of achieving a significant breakthrough in terms of the development of a broad party in which the SWP would play a minority role. The longer it had to subordinate its politics to this unrealized goal, the more pressure it would face internally and externally.
    At the same time, those who went on to form RR wanted an even greater subordination of the SWP to a strategy that was more beholden to celebrity politics on the one hand and, on the other, to local maneuvering under the pressure of, as you put it, the kind of electoralism specific to the South Asian community.
    I don’t, in fact, think there is much difference between you and I in analysis of the various pressures and objective limitations, based upon what you’ve written. Where I think the difference lies is with how to deal with them. I think your strategy submits to localism, electoralism and opportunism. You think that I am ultraleft and sectarian. However, what the SWP wanted was to push outwards hard – into the broader working class movement (thus OFFU) and beyond the base within a section of the Muslim community (thus a greater emphasis on broader politics around LGBT oppression, etc.), in order to prevent what they perceived as a retreat into the dangers I mentioned above. Perhaps this was done clumsily or in a heavy-handed way – as Molyneux et al seem to suggest. But almost everyone in the SWP from what I can see (from the outside) – on both sides of the present argument – accept that the push needed to happen.

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  10. Nas – re: the ANL. No, the party didn’t limit itself because it existed independent of the ANL. There was no question that its routine of branch meetings, publications, organizing of other united fronts, etc. was in competition with the ANL. It was still free to argue against immigration controls in toto and to build pro-immigration campaigns. You could say the same thing with StWC – which has opposed criticizing the Iranian regime.
    It becomes more difficult, more controversial, in the context of a multi-issue party formation like Respect. As Alan argues above, the SWP needed to work basically exclusively through Respect – and there was resentment when it didn’t and when all SWP members didn’t join Respect. In other words, when the SWP treated Respect as another united front, like the ANL. But, also, there was political tension when the SWP began to push for a difficult outward orientation towards the broader working class. Others wanted to focus on consolidating further the bases that Respect had won.

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  11. Redbedhead, I am glad to hear there is not a huge difference in our assessments of the problems RESPECT faced. All the more reason why it was madness for the SWP to ‘go nuclear’ in response to criticisms of Rees then which are pretty mild compared to what Callinicos and co are saying now. Surly, if the last year or so illustrates anything it is that the SWP choose the wrong tactics in responding to internal problems.

    I am not aware of anyone who opposed the OFFU initiative. But I for one was not all that enthusiastic about it. Not because I was hostile to a push outwards into ‘the broader working class movement’, or the trade unions to be exact, but because I had no faith that it was going to be seen as anything other than an SWP front and therefore would have a limited appeal and future. (I have seen similar SWP TU initiatives in various guises down the years). I attended the Birmingham launch rally and my suspicions were confirmed.

    Of course, there are other more traditional ways for parties contesting electoral politics to ‘push out’. In Birmingham, one would have been to build in areas other than our strongholds. For the SWP to push out in a new area would have entailed long term consistency to the nuts and bolts of working class community politics. The far left generally are hopeless at this and in my experience the SWP in general were not fundamentally different, simply unable or unwilling to put in the work required. There was always a very big gap between the rhetoric and the reality about ‘pushing out’. As for the SWP emphasizing ‘a greater emphasis on broader politics around LGBT oppression’, other than the clumsy way the Gay Pride demo was handled, I am not aware of any other instance in which the SWP raised this issue.

    The tragedy of the whole sorry episode is that the SWP response was more shaped by defending Rees’s position/prestige, dressed up with ever more outrageous political justifications (‘Communalism’, ‘witch-hunt’, ‘Tammany Hall politics’ etc ) than anything else. The way Rees is exaggerating his political differences inside the SWP at present to protect his perch illustrates the method. The SWP leadership proved itself weak, and betrayed the trust of its members, in not having the backbone to rein him in. I suspect the reason was a fear that in so doing the price for those CC members who raised their head might well get it chopped off, as the balance of forces on the CC had yet not swung away from Rees. Be that as it may, it still paints a picture of cowardly SWP leaders, putting themselves before their party. All the more critical therefore that there existed a confident cadre, not afraid to challenge or disagree with the party’s leaders. Unfortunately, this was weak and deferential, ground down by the insidious influence of decades of a corrupted internal culture. But that’s another story…

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  12. But redbedhead, the SWP had an absolute majority of Respect members! If the SWP insisted on an influence on policy and decision-making relative to this kind of numerical domination it was always going to be an insuperable problem. Moreover it ensured that it had an absolute majority of delegates at its conferences, and it routinely operated on a democratic centralist (i.e. mandated) basis. Under these conditions what was the point of anyone else turning up? Think about it. It was not a matter of SWP members being dogs bodies it was about allowing Respect, at least to some extent, to be a pluralist organisation. It could not be pluralist by any stretch of the imagination if a numerical majority were routinely turning up with predetermined positions and under disciple to deliver them. You could say it turned the rest of us into dogs bodies.
    Nor is there a contradiction in what I am arguing. I am saying that the SWP should have been strongly self-limiting in the internal functioning of Respect. If it was not then in the end the whole thing was simply not viable. It should have conducted much more of its agitational and campaigning work though Respect and prioritised the Respect profile at major public events rather than its own profile. This would have avoided demonstrations with 20 SWP stalls and one Respect stall and ‘Respect’ rallies with three SWP stalls outside and little sign of the Respect brand on offer.
    This would not have stopped the SWP from function as an organisation. It would still have its paper and a full range of publications, it could still have its own conferences rallies and elected leadership, it could still advocate its own distinct politics inside and outside Respect. The difference would have been that Respect would have been a more viable and attractive organisation and with a potentially bigger membership. It would also have meant, of course, that it would by definition have been more than a united front — special kind or otherwise.

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  13. If the SWP insisted on an influence on policy and decision-making relative to this kind of numerical domination it was always going to be an insuperable problem.

    …it could still advocate its own distinct politics inside and outside Respect.

    Anyone else see a contradiction between these two statements?

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  14. Alan, it seems to me that you’re simply repeating what you said above. It’s an interesting point – unique, I think, in terms of an approach to a long term project. but it is utopic and ultimately destructive to socialist organization. When there was big momentum for Respect, coming out of the anti-war movement and then with the election of Galloway, it made sense to be as “self-limiting” as the SWP was. This was a transitional moment and a bit of substitutionalism wouldn’t go astray in order to create the infrastructural framework for a looming break to the left of Labour. But that break never came and all that was left, increasingly, was a substitutionalist framework of the SWP denying its politics – and the bases that existed in the Muslim community, which were to some extent retrenching into electoralism as was pointed out more widely than just by the SWP – Liam argued this viz TH. Even Ger has discussed this as a challenge that was faced, though I suspect he saw it as an external threat.
    There were several answers in this situation – moving further towards liquidation, as you argue – and that is what self-denying means: voting against your own politics, reducing your public presence, etc. Or the SWP could pull back its members’ involvement so that within Respect there was a more truthful balance between revolutionaries and reformists – ie. eliminating the substitutionalism. Obviously this would have created its own tensions and backlash. Or waging a fight to push the whole organization towards a broader engagement, finding ways to fight against the pressures to retrench into electoralism – that was the role of OFFU, for instance, but also fighting against clientalism in places like TH.
    I obviously believe that this third option was the most correct – though not the most preferable. The most preferable would have been the break by a substantial section of the union leadership or the Labour Party towards Respect, in which the SWP would have become a minority that wouldn’t have to self-deny in the same way. Whether what happened was handled well is obviously the subject of some debate – inside and outside the SWP. But, I think that your route is the route to suicide – something that people like Andy Newman or PhilW at SUN readily admit and support – and that was simply never on.

    Ger – Your answer is interesting and I’ll respond later. I have to go buy cranberries to string for the tree before my in-laws arrive…

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  15. If the SWP insisted on an influence on policy and decision-making relative to this kind of numerical domination it was always going to be an insuperable problem.

    …it could still advocate its own distinct politics inside and outside Respect.

    Anyone else see a contradiction between these two statements?

    No – see above.

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  16. I think that your route is the route to suicide – something that people like Andy Newman or PhilW at SUN readily admit and support

    I must have missed those posts.

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  17. “relative to this kind of numerical domination…” & “it could still advocate its own policies…”

    no contradiction? So, how would it do this? Should the SWP have designated a certain specific fraction of its Respect members to vote for its policies – just never enough to win? Should it have argued – in perpetuity – for a particular set of policies only to vote against them? How would it win people to revolutionary politics on the basis of “We think X but we will never do anything to try to bring X into being because that would mean we would use our numerical weight to win.” As I said above – such substitutionalism has a lifespan. At a certain point either the project moves forward to such a degree that it represents forces much bigger than the revolutionaries, thus negating the need for such self-denial OR the project stalls or moves backwards, meaning that the revolutionaries must ultimately dissolve, withdraw to the point at which their numbers are in a non-substitutionalist ratio – or wage a fight to resist the backsliding, thus using their weight.

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  18. Phil: “I must have missed those posts.”

    Andy N: “All that happened is that some of us with different political views from the SWP sought to reduce the politicall infleunce of your organisation in Respect (and society at large) in favour of political ideas that we are more sympathetc with”

    PhilW: “’52: #148, Phil, what you wanted was the SWP to go out and build the alliance, knock on doors,produce leaflets, build meetings, fund the project and then shut the fuck up!!’
    “In a sense, yes. I argued that they should close down SW and put its resources into a weekly SA paper, bring all of their members into the SA… but at the same time not use their numerical superiority to squash other political views in the Alliance.”

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  19. Redbedhead displays all the political intelligence of the bureaucratic mind set.. It’s about throwing your weight around and, at a certaiin point, collapsing the project when it no longer serves your own specific interests. Fine if your own interests are identical with those of the proletariat in general but not if they are separate and opposed as is the case with the SWP’s apparatus and even then the method of exit was intrigue, slander, deliberate disorganisation and thoroughly apolitical.

    The answer of course is exemplary politics and activity and developing a line that corresponds to the objective situation. It is not to adopt a sub-reformist programme to get close, grab members and then piss off. None of which did the SWP blockheads on the CC any good whatsoever and confirmed the working classes’ hatred for the sects.

    The current split in the SWP is then naturally nothing to do with politics but about who gets to keep their job in the apparatus with the formal discussion centering on whether the SWP should continue to try and grab members from others or fall back on its own conservative resources to maintain that apparatus. What is needed is a faction to emerge, untaiinted by beureaucratic interests, that will apologise for the witch-hunt narrative developed by the SWP CC and repudiate its wrecking tactics. That would demonstrate a major determination to refound the organisation on a solid foundation and could be the basis for a re-examination of what revolutionary politics is really all about: what is exemplary practise, what is a united front, what are transitional demands, what is a Marxist analysis etc. etc. This is the only way to save something substantial from or for the SWP and I would urge comrades in the SWP who are in anyway unsettled by the practises of its CC in regard to the whole Respect debacle to get in touch with the Revolutionary Regroupment people in Respect to see if any common ground can be found or any assistance made available.

    I do not mean that this faction must join Respect merely that is should repudiate the SWP’s crass methodology. However, Respect is a coalition and I’m sure any faction that emerged in the SWP on the basis outlined would be welcomed to operate in Respect if they decided that is what they wanted to do.

    If either of the two CC factions emerge as unchallenged winners in the current SWP split then the organisation is in any case doomed. A vibrant, serious, political faction with no other interests other than those of the class and the revolution needs to emerge quickly and hopefully in time for the congress.

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  20. I think Mike Rosen made some excellent points over on SUN. As many face victimisation and worse both inside their workplace and outside of it, I think the experiance of the last year means that many associate electoral projects with divisive and pointless squabbling on the one hand, and the political equivilant of fantasy football on the other. Whether its misguided members of my organisation crowing about the electoral defeat of other groups and organisations on the left, or the comrades in Respect Renewal arguing for a move away from the organised working class to keep the electoral project going (I should emphasis that I wholly accept objections to attempts to ascribe this to ‘communalism’).

    In terms of wider political work in the coming years this legacy is going to present us all with problems. Its no secret that in the SWP we’re trying to draw the lessons from this shambles and our part in it at the moment. Its also pretty obvious that a similar process is going on amongst some comrades in Respect Renewal. I think it makes sense to move away from fraticide, and Michael Rosen’s continued entreaties that we look at the wider picture probably represent what most of the best people in the movement secretely feel. Imagine for a moment that you were’nt part of this argument (that is to say you were part of the vast majority of activists in the country). You’d run a mile.

    Best seasons greetings.

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  21. I agree that it helps to move away from fratricide. To that end it would also help if we refrain from distortion and caricature. Who in Respect (and lets call it by its rightful name) is ‘arguing for a move away from the organised working class to keep the electoral project going’? If you are going to make statements like that John, and want to engage in an informative discussion rather than a bruising polemic, it Is best served by backing up your claims with some hard facts.

    There is a world of difference in having a skepticism about a specific initiative, in my case OFFU because I have very little faith in the SWP’s industrial work and strategy, and adhering to the position you claim.

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  22. Well I think in practice, thats the inevitable result. Certainly AndyN has been making general arguments of this kind. Specifically though, I think some of the arguments around ‘how to do electoral work’ underestimated the extent to which there was a very narrow window of opportunity connected to the success of the mass movement around the war, which sadly we missed (for whatever reason). Then we found ourselves flopping about on the beach as the tide receded.

    In such desperate circumstances I could well understand the development of arguments about the limited utility of anything other then local graft around local issues (before it gets bruising I’m in no way suggesting that thats ALL you did: its about the overall direction of the argument) and arguments about the limited importance of work with trade unions for those purposes. Every organisation has to prioritise. But I have felt sometimes on SUN that virtues were being made out of neccessities and that some of this was politically regressive.

    If you think I’ve got that wrong then there is no need to get bruising. I’m not seeking to ‘expose’ anyone here or justify my differences with you or anything like that. The larger point is that electoral initiatives don’t look too wonderful to many people at the moment and thats likely to be a larger problem for all of us in the future. That was the only point I was trying to make.

    One way in which I’m wasting time over xmas is looking at the wonderful series ‘the wire’. In the first season “D” shoots someone in public. Explaining himself to his boss he explains how the other guy was behaving crazy and he had no choice. His boss responds ‘its not about the other guy its about you’. I’m far from advocating that the Baltimore underworld can give us pointers on how to conduct our affairs, but I do think that there are lessons there for all of us in terms of how we conduct ourselves.

    Its worth remembering that there is a danger in forgetting that most people don’t care who said what. They just look at the larger result.

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  23. David Ellis – Being as I have the intellect of a bureaucrat, I will happily file away your sub-intellectual screed for someone else to dissect it, perhaps a psychiatrist. They at least can prescribe something for your problems.

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  24. David – while I have some sympathy for many of your political points I’m not convinced that at the moment such an abrasive tone and referring to SWP members as “blockheads” is useful persuasive device. It would be better if you mellowed your remarks a bit. If nothing else it would allow reflective SWP members like Redbedhead and Johng a chance to discuss in an atmosphere that does not get superheated and make sensible dialogue much easier. It also makes it harder for stirrers to take issue with language rather than politics.

    Like Ger I found the two OFFU events I attended very poor. “If you wanted a template of how not to organise fighting unions this was it” was my impression at the time. (http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/organising-for-fighting-unions-conference/). It was everything that was wrong with Respect taken to caricature proportions.

    John McDonnell has been saying for a while that the coming months pose both the opportunity and necessity of creating a framework in which the various parts of the left can collaborate to take part in some defensive struggles. He is not wrong and in my view a sine non qua of that would be a transparent participation by a range of forces in which the techniques that have proved so destructive – for both the SWP, Respect and the left generally – are avoided.

    As for how a revolutionary current functions in an organisation like Respect there are certain obvious guidelines. “Should the SWP have designated a certain specific fraction of its Respect members to vote for its policies?” asks Redbedhead. No but it could have said “there are no issues of principle or crossing class lines involved in this votes so feel free to cast your ballot as you wish.” Apart from student union gesture politics from the like of the CPGB reform and revolution were not frequent topics of discussion in Respect.

    “At a certain point either the project moves forward to such a degree that it represents forces much bigger than the revolutionaries” Yes but that can take a while and is contingent on what is happening in the wider world. You don’t enter a formation like Respect, the NPA or Rifondazione and expect continuous progress. Defeats and setbacks are just as much a part of building an organisation as success. If one’s assessment of the period is that there is the political space for a left of Labour formation then that means that you either stick with it or fall back on building relatively small propaganda groups – and that’s all that exists in Europe.

    “or wage a fight to resist the backsliding” – It wasn’t like that. The old Respect left “real politics” to be done by the SWP and that was where the discussion was. There was no attempt to develop an autonomous political culture.

    These for me are some of the principal lessons of the recent experiences.

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  25. John – I don’t accept that the space for a left of Labour electoral alternative has now disappeared because the SWP’s interest in it has. Especially as enter into a period of economic recession. Who knows how all that is going to play out? But there are real objective difficulties. One is the first past the post system itself. The other is that the only way to build is by working in a particular way, being consistent and becoming embedded in your local ward. Unfortunately, for us, there are no shortcuts.

    I am not interested in a ‘he said/she said’ routine anymore because argument behind it is resolved in RESPECT. Although if I was still in the SWP I certainly would be right now.

    I agree that The Wire is a fount of much wisdom. We are big fans in Brum. I have just finished series 3 yesterday which has some great stuff about self serving bureaucracies and their corrosive impact on the cultures of the organisations they control.

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  26. Well at least we agree about the wire.

    On the question of electoral alternatives etc. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that anyone has ‘lost interest’ in such things (its false). But the issue I’m raising is that whilst all agree that it is a strategic goal to build such a thing, the question of whether tactically resources should be poured into this at the present time is a real one (and not, I suspect, just with the SWP). I’m not suggesting that I’ve got the answer to this question. But what I am suggesting is that its not a simple question. And it has’nt been made any simpler by the events of the last year.

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  27. I promised Liam I wouldn’t post anything more on this day of the birth of our Lord but would instead indulge in the usual xmas traditions of over-eating and watching tv. All of which I did but now I’m left to jiggle my baby to sleep in her bouncy chair so that my wife can get some much needed shut-eye between feedings. So I have some time to kill – especially now that we’ve watched all the videos in the house. I can’t bear to watch the Dark Knight one more time…

    Johng – in a certain sense I agree with Ger that the prospects for an electoral alternative still remain – for those still in Respect. There are arguments/differences over the direction they are taking it. And it remains to be seen whether it will be viable in the short to medium term viz upcoming elections, etc. However, for the SWP, barring a major break from Labour that puts a new formation on the table or some other pressure to merge what exists – participation in/creation of an electoral alternative is a non-starter right now for the SWP.

    Ger – Your two points. First, your argument that the fight was about defending Rees’ prestige. I don’t accept this. Of course fights are carried by and through individuals. The performance and position of Rees was going to be part of any fight between the SWP and other elements in Respect given his role. But I don’t think it’s reducible to that. It is clear – and Lindsay’s document points this out – that the SWP leadership, from CC on down, had made a decision at the end of 2006 to “push left” inside Respect – for all the reasons that have already been discussed. This combined with the failures to break through beyond already established bases was bound to create tensions and fights – the SWP were cutting against the grain of where things were headed. It also would necessarily mean an increase in the disciplined behaviour of the SWP – more intense caucusing, etc. This is not to say there weren’t mistakes – and perhaps many of them, some of which might have decisively shifted the balance of the middle ground. This is being debated. But I think it wrong to think the struggle was primarily about Rees’ abilities as an individual.

    Secondly, with regards to consistent, long term local work. This seems unfair – the SWP can point to its members’ long term work in a number of unions and numbers of long term united fronts that have local expressions, whether StWC, DCH, UAF, or others. In fact, some of them are older than Respect and, yet, have suffered no splits. I think that there is something specific to Respect or electoral politics that has led in this direction at this time.
    However, if what you mean by “local work” is constituency advocacy work, then you may well be right – but this isn’t a question of “laziness” or even of “impatience” but may well be more about a difference in the conception of the role of local councillors and MPs. I’ve seen good activists and socialists end up believing that getting potholes fixed or calling the welfare office on behalf of a constituent is the central task of progressive councillors. Or even of championing the passage of local legislation that will improve conditions somehow. Important though these tasks may be, when they become the central focus it is a departure from a conception of building a real alternative on the basis of mobilizing local forces around multifaceted issues. Instead there is a growing slide towards top-down reformism – the councillor will advocate on behalf of constituents, rather than the councillor and their office is a conduit for popular mobilization and propaganda. But perhaps I am wrong on this in this instance. I am happy to be corrected.

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  28. ‘the councillor will advocate on behalf of constituents, rather than the councillor and their office is a conduit for popular mobilization and propaganda.’

    Sounds like a fair description of Respect Renewal practice in Birmingham – for example the two (!) Woolworths petitioning sessions that RR have managed were both London weren’t they? And there is a branch of Woolies in Kings heath – part of Salma’s target constituency. I think if they’d done anything there we’d have been told about it.

    East London RR at least made SOME effort around the issue.

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  29. Wrong. We have produced 10,000 leaflets for distribution across the Moseley & Kings Heath ward with the closure of Woolworths the lead story (others included windfall tax on energy companies, stopping Post Office closures and reopening a local rail ink).

    As for councillors using ‘their office is a conduit for popular mobilization and propaganda.’ Well, the propaganda bit is easy, and we do it all the time. The mobilisation bit is more difficult but we do what we can. The newsletter also features a photo of a well attended protest we held recently against the closure of Balsall Heath library. And come to think of it, it is not too long ago we had another outside the Council House about a local arts centre.

    Now, if you have got something substantial to say, say it. Otherwise, drop the sectarian sniping. It’s boring.

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  30. Redbedhead – Pressures, stains and tensions are in the nature of the game. None warranted a split. Going on my experience in Birmingham, those tensions were manageable with the SWP. Relations went up and down, sometimes their fault, sometimes ours, but it was always recoverable. Left to themselves, the SWP would not have felt the need to split in Birmingham. It was Rees’s interventions that titled things over the edge.

    It was my experience in 20 odd years of membership that most members felt most comfortable with an abstract propaganda routine. (Indeed both Callinicos and Rees essentially refer to this in acknowledging the difficulties of getting comrades to push outwards). A very small number would be involved in campaigns, a few more in trade union work, but hardly any would be genuinely involved in their local community. SWP branches are notoriously unrooted. It was a major problem and a major reason why the SWP could not bring any networks of their own to the RESPECT project, why they could provide very little foundation upon which it could push outwards from. I know Salma simply could not believe how people who had been doing this stuff for decades in the city were so poorly rooted. The main answer lies not in objective factors but in method.

    And yes part of being rooted involves engaging in the issues that effect working class communities in all their variety and banality. Poor street cleaning services, lack of school places, long housing waiting lists, policing and personal safety, anti-social behaviour, attending ward cttes and neighbourhood forums to influence the allocation of resources to that area, etc etc. Only those who live in more middle class areas find themselves less exercised about these kinds of issues. And socialists who pontificate about starting world revolution but can’t do something about getting a pothole fixed on their street frankly don’t get taken very seriously. I quite liked the SWP metaphor of socialists being like local shop stewards in their community. It’s a shame more did not try live up to it.

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  31. Johng, following Micheal Rosen, makes a truly moviing plea for unity on the basis of learning nothing i.e. not examining the SWP’s past practise but putting it all behind us. On the other hand, it doesn’t stop his endless inuendo about Respect’s practises.

    Liam, I admire your infinite patience but I do believe that if you give the likes of Redbedhead and Johng etc. any wriggle room whatsoever they will use it to destroy you eiither by absorbtion or by making it impossible for you to operate. There is no honesty in their contributions. They are of and for the apparatus. They are lost to the revolution. Also, it was the SWP CC I characterised as blockheads not the SWP membership from whom I said I hoped some comrades intent on rejecting the witch hunt narrative and the sectarian determination to disrupt and destroy Respect would emerge.

    But I take your point and will try and moderate.

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  32. Aw David your going to make me cry.

    Ger, much of interest here, but I don’t really buy this argument being SWP members addiction to abstract propaganda. In my experiance (and of course it might be very different in Birmingham: but even in your own account this line doesn’t scan too well, given your claims about the handling of tensions on both sides in Birmingham). Many of the comrades spend most of their time engaged in united front work of one kind or another and were if anything rather non-plussed by the explosion of the crisis. In terms of community work yes its true, the SWP did not have a strong base here. But then, in reality nor did anyone else much. You’ve mentioned over on SUN in a very interesting contribution (which I entirely agree with incidently) that the name of the game was breaking the old system of clientalism and communalism sponsered by the Labour Party. But I can also remember the arguments among existing community activists about the way the stop the war movement revealed the weakness of the left wing ones (one contribution in particular, applauded by most: we accused you of representing the white working class, you accused us of being black nationalists, in reality neither of us represented as much as we thought). Trouble is rather then two, three, many Salma Yakoobs nationally, she remains the one outstanding figure to have been thrown up by the anti-war movement who has a national profile (this is not a dig at George Galloway: its just that he was not thrown up in the same way). And this raises further problems about ‘implementation’ in local communities etc and relative priorities I was referring to. Precisely because of the patchy nature of the electoral project one difficulty for comrades (and one reason why I think these discussions become vicious so fast) is that not everyone lives in TH or Birmingham. So for most of us the election of outstanding figures provided a national focus towards which we could point activists around us involved in other spheres of activity (whether to join up or get on a train at election time). And when the crisis broke the reaction was largely WTF? But hence also a feeling that, if you stood on the outside, the almost bottomless nastiness and feuding revealed was shocking: and a tendency to think it was just different sides of the same coin. Which brings me back to what is in all liklihood the reaction of the majority of activists towards electoral work at the moment. Which I emphasis is a problem (at least as far as I’m concerned).

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  33. Ah, johng’s back to his best. Yards of `reasonable’ slander and obfuscation. But he is the `cleverest guy in the room’. What a burden.

    You might be able to write this crap johng but like the script of Star Wars its virtually unreadable as Harrison Ford once told George Lucas.

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  34. Slander? Jeez thats creative.

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  35. Why are you dissing star wars? I find that offensive.

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  36. Yes, I’m sure the inconsistencies, rubbish dialogue and plot gaffs appeal to you and children everywhere.

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  37. Absolutely.

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  38. They are not so attractive in a group of revolutionaries though.

    Tell us Johng, were the SWP witch-hunted out of Respect? A simple yes or no will do.

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  39. John, I am bemused by some of what your wrote, especially the white working class/black nationalist reference, but no matter.

    I think the question you raise about why RESPECT only made a partial breakthrough is an important one. I agree the main reason is that the national political fracture as a result of the war was partial, not as deep as we hoped, and much more pronounced in sections of the Muslim community than the rest of society. To those who said at the time that there were hundreds of Salma’s out there, my response always was, how come I have not seen them then? It became clear to us quick enough that our initial expectations were exaggerated. And objective constraints were compounded by working practices from the past weighing on socialist activists of the present.

    That is important in terms of being able to more effectively build here and there which, in the scale of things, would only have resulted in small, incremental steps like building up a good voting base in one area, or even additional councillors in another. However the impact of this for an entity like RESPECT is not to be underestimated. Look at the boost the work of Michael Lavelette for example gave to the whole project. Imagine if we had had a couple more like him. And my criticism is that we could have done much better, even accepting the limitations. What we have done already is pretty remarkable. But subjective factors were not sufficient to be able to determine whether, for example, we could get three of four MP’s elected, whether a section of the TU’s would back us, whether Labour MP’s would jump ship etc.

    Be that as it may, however imperfect, what we created is real, and represents an advance for left wing politics in this country and therefore deserves to be supported and protected. That is a basic point which I feel has been lost for too many SWP members. And vice versa, the struggle for socialist politics is not served by an SWP which busts up on the current terms. There are sectarian blinkers on both sides, and from some that neither side would ever want to be in the same room as. It is very difficult however to see how relations with the SWP can be progressed when Callinicos, Harman, Smith and Molyneaux maintain the discredited Rees narrative about ‘communalism’, ‘Tammany Hall politics’, ‘witch-hunt’, ‘Galloway inspired split’ etc. To my knowledge they have not publicly retracted a single word and in their actions display the same kind of unwillingness to admit mistakes that they accuse Rees of. There is a fundamental dishonesty running through what they say, all the more glaring when you compare GG’s original complaint with what the SWP are accusing Rees of now.

    On one level all this no longer matters. We have already paid the price for it. But the SWP are still counting that price, and will continue to count it until some proper honest accounting actually takes place. I spent too much time in the SWP to be indifferent to whether that happens or not.

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  40. Interesting post. On the bit that bemused you, its a reference to a meeting before the founding of Respect I attended, where a figure associated with the community left made a very open and, for me, interesting contribution, on how outdated the stereotypes the revolutionary left and community activists had about each other: emphasising that the sheer scale of mobilisation demonstrated that neither of us were all that. And that therefore we needed something different. Of course its all in the past but I still remember it. Yes I think the kind of work Lavellete did was exemplary and that there are lessons we should learn from this. We’ve had arguments and discussions about the logic of the split before but, I don’t think I have ever used the language you complain of. I would still however stand by what I once said about what I thought was a genuinely problematical strand in Salma’s argument, where she attempted to assert that tammany hall type politics were impossible within an oppressed community, and the further arguments between us about whether the absence of material resources makes these problems worse or better. Importantly these were not ‘allegations’ on my part, just a different political assessment of possible dangers. In terms of the other issues you raise these will of course be things we discuss at our own conference in January.

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  41. oh before you come back yes, we still disagree about ‘witch-hunt’.

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  42. Tammany hall type politics is premised on power, and being able to dispense the fruits of it. It means nothing without power. In Sparkbrook ward for example, where we have majority control, that power was already limited and now even more so with the axing of Neighbourhood Renewal Funding (NRF).

    This is not to deny that there is legitimacy in discussing the dynamics and problems of the interaction between ward politics and the state. There is. But if you are going to raise that discussion, be careful with the language you use to express it. The SWP leadership used language that was inaccurate to express whatever issues they were referring to. Now, maybe that was ignorance on their part. I am more minded to think it was a cynical abuse designed to exaggerate differences in order to be better able to rally the troops to win a faction fight (like the ‘witch-hunt’ call). Either way, it was politically wrong, offensive and ultimately counter productive in that the charges in the way the SWP expressed them just did not stand up. Others saw through them and that is the single biggest reason the SWP could not win the ‘middle ground’ with a number of people that they had much closer political relationships with than we had in Birmingham.

    As regards the ‘witch-hunt’ allegation. It is difficult to conduct any serious discussion with you if are going to start defending a position which I think most SWP members know in their hearts was rubbish and are embarrassed about.

    I am in a position to speak accurately about this and I have no reason to lie.

    It is simply not true to say that there was a desire to drive the SWP out at the beginning. And I say this as someone who had a much harder line on the SWP than probably most others. If the SWP had reacted more sympathetically to GG’s letter, the crisis would have been averted. Yes, tensions would have continued but they could have been handled differently. If the SWP had accepted the proposal of a joint National Secretary they would have dispersed their opponents there and then and, in essence, not changed all the much in real terms. (Nick would still have been subject to SWP discipline.) Rees had very different ambitions and an exaggerated sense of what he and the SWP represented. The allegation of ‘witch-hunt’ was another reason way the SWP lost the middle ground because people saw through the cynicism behind it. You really should let that one go, for your own reputation’s sake if nothing else.

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  43. `In terms of the other issues you raise these will of course be things we discuss at our own conference in January.’

    I very much doubt that: the CC majority will argue that the whole Respect thing was a badly handled mistake which made the SWP hostages to a bunch of communalists and a tiny minority of Rees supporters if they are allowed will rationalise their attempted destruction of Respect, blame Galloway and remind everybody that it was in any case a tactic agreed by the whole CC. Everybody will come away none the wiser but a lot smaller. If the things raised here by Ger Francis for instance are discussed it will only be to confirm the witch-hunt narrative and justify the wrecking operation and to drum Rees and German out of the organisation.

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  44. The “witch hunt” notion is just barmy. Presumably in that narrative Socialist Resistance would have been in on the plans. It was as big a surprise for us as it was to everyone else when GG’s letter appeared, all the more so because it contained a lot of the points we had been making about Respect’s decline and complete lack of preparation to fight an election. Bear in mind too that his relations with us had not been quite as cordial as they had been with the SWP.

    At no point whatsoever – and we were discussing this among ourselves on an almost daily basis – did anyone have any intention of driving the SWP out of Respect. This was true for us and was just as true for the other people with whom we were working. The notion was never mentioned until some in the SWP’s leadership used it as a transparently manipulative instrument for circling the wagons. It is such a daft idea that it should be quietly forgotten.

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  45. Liam. They cannot drop the `daft idea’ of the witch-hunt for a number of reasons and, in fact, their whole conference will be dominated by both sides trying to uphold and reinforce it. Without it they could not have mobilised the recking operation that was LA. The only point of LA was to destroy what they were leaving behind in case they wanted to make a serious turn to electoral politics again in the future. Respect was seen as a competitor that must be destroyed by both side of this split.

    Also, the witch-hunt narrative was the most disgusting slander on all the members of Respect left behind which demonstrates the inability of the SWP apparatus to work in an exemplary fashion with others. Quietly forgetting about it would be a great diservice to the SWP rank and file and any attempt at SWP renewal. It must be confronted head on, repudiated and apologised for. Then, and only then, can anything useful potentially be saved by or from the SWP otherwise its doom is sealed.

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  46. Well obviously David Ellis’s little litmus test worked. On the whole litmus tests are a little silly in this situation. By the time you have people demanding that “the SWP’s influence is reduced in the wider society” I at least think you’ve reached the limit of sane political discourse. It goes anywhere from that point. Something similar is true of the Russian Doll language which simply conjures up right wing stereotypes about left wing organisations beloved of venerable institutions like Harry’s Place. In this connection I should also say that I very much regret the invocation of language about communalism. All in all most of the language of the fracas was disgraceful and not a particularly fine episode for anyone involved.

    As I said I still disagree with the argument which tries to suggest that the dynamics referred to in an earlier exchange with Ger don’t effect oppressed communities and with the somewhat more plausible argument that the absence of resources makes this impossible (in fact, not having resources might easily make you reliant on those who have more both materially and indeed in terms of political access. I certainly would not suggest that we were immune to these things either).

    Again these are not allegations on my part simply disagreements about the political dangers of radicals engaging with local politics (not an argument against engaging with local politics). I argued about this at the time because if the unseemly fracas of last year often seemed absurd, it still does seem to me that different political assessments of dangers as we flopped about on the beach were real: even if the way argument around these things were pursued was frequently appalling and irresponsible.

    Reading over redbedhead’s more general remarks about the dangers as well as advantages of embeddedness in local politics also seems pertinent. I also think that arguments about self-limitation have their place, but feel that in general there are very few organisations or individuals that would find the prospect of devoting their resources to limiting their influence very attractive. My own belief is that its best to accept that different components of any alliance will have their own agendas. If lessons are to be learnt it has to be around how to ensure that differing agendas don’t tear an alliance to pieces (there is also it seems to me a more serious argument about electoralism and divisiveness raised by a number of commentators, and which I know has been the subject of quite serious discussion in Latin America). The idea that everyone is going to give up their own agenda is not serious politics at this stage, and consequently unlikely to lead to anything more then the production of pious blueprints.

    Genuine alliances require some genuine convergence of interest. Sadly I think there actually was such a convergence but also think that whilst subjective factors are important, the receeding of the tide accentuated the worst of those subjective factors.

    Excuse my appalling prose.

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  47. There are two major issues here and unless these key questions are addressed with some honesty then those who perpetrate their existance and those who accept their validity will never break free towards a solution.

    First, that Galloway had to be resisted.

    Second, that there was a witchunt

    So some suggestions made to the all other NC members by GG in August 2007, however scattergun their presentations, to improve things, was the signal to commence the battle, or to ‘go nuclear’.
    Instead of this approach it could have been engaged with. It sounds so simple now but just imagine what a different place we could be in now if we had followed the latter

    The witchhunt. Not really deserving of an answer,. Although, at the time in Manchester, there was major dispute on with the sacking of Karen Reissmann, and quite rightly many, many people could recognise a real witchhunt, but a small group of revolutionaries couldn’t recognise a false one.

    Of course it’s their party and they can cry if they want to

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  48. ‘in general there are very few organisations or individuals that would find the prospect of devoting their resources to limiting their influence very attractive’

    Not if you don’t see a contradiction in exercising self restraint as part of a bigger ambition to progress a broad left of labour alternative, and you have an accurate assessment of what you actually represent in the real world.

    Lindsey is right to say that the balance inside RESPECT would have shifted if she had been elected. It would have represented a major breakthrough for RESPECT and especially the SWP. And maybe if that happened she would have become more a public face of RESPECT. But didn’t happen and that moment passed. And the reality was that in the eyes electorate RESPECT was overwhelmingly associated with George, and in the Muslim community, Salma and Yvoone. What social base we had largely rested on that three legged stool, overwhelmingly rooted inside the Muslim community. Voting is pretty much a passive activity, perception is everything, and our supporters perception of RESPECT was one with in which the SWP was very much in the background, if at all.

    That is not to denigrate the contribution of the SWP, which was very important, it is simply to acknowledge some facts. Therefore, an honest assessment of the social weight of the SWP would recognise that while comrades could have disproportionate weight in the structures due to unevenness of RESPECT’s development, it was critical to exercise that power with responsibility and not to lose sight of what they actually represented in the real world. Now, Liam and others will probably disagree, but by and large I thought the SWP executed their authority with responsibility, sensitive to taking people with them. And I respected Rees for that. But that was all fine as long as everyone was on the same page. The challenge was always going to be when the project stalled, as was inevitable, and differences arose.

    Here Rees’s response let him and the SWP down. His way of dealing with differences with Salma was to stop communicating with her. Ditto, his relationship with George broke down. Even members got the same treatment. As soon as I started taking issue with Rees’s judgment, I was at best, treated with a suspicion which cascaded from the CC to the full timers to the membership, and at worst, with outright hostility. (Now, whatever SWP members think about my political idiosyncrasies , the organisation should have been big enough to cope with dissenting voices like mine). Indeed, many of the internal problems that SWP members are discussing now about the culture inside the organization severely compounded the SWP’s ability to rise to the challenges of Marxist leadership that the RESPECT project posed.

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  49. Ger, you were expelled for your actions, not your opinions, as you well know. I don’t think those opinions should have formed the basis of hostility, and hopefully that aspect of swp internal culture is going to get sorted once and for all. On the other hand, you never used the IBs to put across your views about Resepct in (say) autumn of 2006 or earlier. Genune question – why not? (I asked Kevin O and Rob H this a while ago on SU, they ignored the question.)

    On Woolies, glad to hear you’ve got 10K leaflets ready to roll out (no – really!). All their stores are due to close a week on Monday, so you’d better get them out fast. I just think that some street stall type activism by your lot could have done you some favours, and helped put another multiracial marker down in an area which needs it (if you don’t know what I’m on about google ‘Simon Darby’ and ‘Billeseley’).

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  50. Sorry that’s Billesley

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  51. The most serious differences developed as the RESPECT split unfurled, and I was expelled way before then, so writing to an IB was not an option. Any other differences I did express, although mainly in a series of long email exchanges with Alex C. (Rees had stopped talking to me as well). Before that I didn’t see much need. As I said already, for much of the time I was in the SWP and RESPECT I had no substantial political differences with how they operated. Doubts and frustrations about strategy yes, but that’s something else.

    I disagree that there was a seperation between my actions and opinions. I had been previously asked to leave by Lindsey German and Martin Smith because they apparently found my opinions so worrying, but I welcome your comment that ‘those opinions should [not] have formed the basis of hostility, and hopefully that aspect of swp internal culture is going to get sorted once and for all.’ Now, much as I like to talk about myself, I am not the story here, plus I have got leafletting to do…

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  52. Well oddly Ger, and perhaps rather disturbingly, I find very little to disagree with in your last post.

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  53. Just to clarify the points about ‘influence’ etc were more directed at some of the comrades who have developed blue prints rather then the kind of discussion you raise.

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  54. sorry last but one. i don’t agree or disagree with the subsequent one because I have no way of knowing.

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  55. johng – um, I agree with you about agreeing with Ger.

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  56. well anyway i suspect that israels attack on gaza are rather more important then such nailbiting controversy. just heard that there is a demo outside the israeli embassy called by StW.

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  57. Ditto in Birmingham. I am have just come from a Palestinian event here attended by 3-400 people, and one of the organisers announced a protest in this Monday:

    Protest at the slaughter in Gaza. Monday 29th December, 5pm, outside Waterstones, Bullring. Organiser: Stitan Abbas 07783 777 912. Supported by Birmingham RESPECT.

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  58. johng – Stop the War are supporting it, alongside a number of organisations. It wasn’t called by them.

    A small point. But it helps to develop the unity of the movement if we don’t, through shorthand, write some people out – in this case Yvonne Ridley who did a huge amount to pull the protest together – and give disproportionate credit to others.

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  59. Its unsurprising that i heard about it in the way I did. no wreaking intended.

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  60. johng – no wreaking/wrecking imputed. It was just a minor and friendly correction.

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  61. Obviously that wasn’t an embarressing spelling mistake. Wreaking is something I do a lot.

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  62. As long as you don’t reek!

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  63. Glad you see it wasn’t some “attack”, johng. Similarly it’s not an attack to point out that Socialist Worker removed Respect from the list of sponsors of the demonstration today – even though the people who pulled together the wide support for today’s demonstration are both Respect members.

    That kind of thing just weakens your paper. There should be a united response over this. You’ve been arguing for unity in action for some time. I hope you have a private word with members who don’t seem able to let things drop.

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  64. For anyone in Cardiff who might see this,there’s a vigil protesting the Israeli atrocities in Gaza at the Nye Bevan statue on Queen Street.Wednesday 31st December 5-6pm

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  65. “The “witch hunt” notion is just barmy”

    Liam – please don’t feel you have to respond until your properly allowed back to the computer. Redbedhead sketches out a scenario where the split didn’t start as a witch-hunt. Galloway and his direct supporters wanted to reduce the influence of the SWP in Respect, reducing it to a dogsbody role, allowing Galloway more freedom to be the undisputed celebrity voice of the organisation, not allowing the SWP to park it between elections. Maybe. But certainly when the SWP was not amenable and it became clear that the Galloway crowd and the SWP could not continue to co-exist in the same party, the honest and democratic thing for a minority to do in such circumstances is to leave and set up a new organisation with a new name.
    The idea of Ger Francis that Nick Wrack was still concerned about party discipline at this stage is probably as laughable as the Ovenden/Hoveman claim that they were still loyal party members.
    [Before supporters of Respect (tertium quid) start jumping up and down, I am beginning to believe that the initial anti-SWP operation had more limited aims than forcing the SWP out of Respect. But certainly there was no reluctance there once battle was joined]

    ” What is needed is a faction to emerge, untaiinted by beureaucratic interests, that will apologise for the witch-hunt narrative developed by the SWP CC and repudiate its wrecking tactics.”

    David Ellis- I think you’ve posted this argument under the name jenkins a few times on SUN. Nobody in the SWP who wasn’t already leaving the SWP believes your version of the split, that the whole SWP has been hoodwinked by a few bad apples on the central committee. Every time you say that a faction should emerge in the SWP that thought you were right all along, it just seems more and more that you are living in a fantasy world of your own. While I would be happy to abuse you, this is meant as a serious point. It’s just not going to happen, however much you wish for it.

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  66. “Glad you see it wasn’t some “attack”, johng. Similarly it’s not an attack to point out that Socialist Worker removed Respect from the list of sponsors of the demonstration today – even though the people who pulled together the wide support for today’s demonstration are both Respect members.

    That kind of thing just weakens your paper. There should be a united response over this. You’ve been arguing for unity in action for some time. I hope you have a private word with members who don’t seem able to let things drop.”

    The Left Alternative sent out a bulletin which also removed Respect from the list of event supporters.

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  67. “Nobody in the SWP who wasn’t already leaving the SWP believes your version of the split, that the whole SWP has been hoodwinked by a few bad apples on the central committee”

    That’s simply not true, skidders. It took over a decade for the leadership to admit the fuck up over the poll tax. The reckoning over this will be much, much shorter.

    Incidentally, the line that those who left were going to do so at some point anyway is a heartening sign of dogmatism. It just enables you to dismiss anyone as a flybynight or malcontent. Welcome to the self-sustaining but ever diminishing sect. For someone who claims to have time for the SWP you aren’t doing them any favours.

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  68. Over 600 on the Birmingham protest tonight. Short but very lively and noisy. Speakers were Labour MP Richard Burden, Salma Yaqoob and a rep from the PSC (I saw Lib Dem MP John Hemings on the ‘platform’ i.e. the bollards outside Waterstones but did not hear him speak). Stop the War have called a public meeting for 6.30pm Monday 5th January in the Council House, Victoria Sq. Salma’s confirmed, planing also to get Lib Dem and Lab councillors plus others.

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  69. After the London demo outside the embassy (incredibly lively and inspiring) I ended up in a pub approximately half an hours walk away in the time honoured fashion of us oldies (it was bloody cold). Popping out for a fag I was amazed to see riot police had extended their operations all the way up to Earls court road. Speaking to a younger protester outside (by this time it was about 9pm) he told me that as the numbers dwindled the police had searched everyone individually and had been arresting people for such things as possessing offensive key rings.

    I get the strong impression though that these protests are going to grow in both size and multi-cultural composition if Israel continues its murderous onslaught. This is the best answer to this disgusting intimidation of protest.

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  70. “That’s simply not true, skidders. It took over a decade for the leadership to admit the fuck up over the poll tax. The reckoning over this will be much, much shorter. ”

    That’s an assertion, not an argument, Nasty. What reckoning is taking place in the SWP varies as to the right response to the attacks on the party by Gallowayites like yourself, but if you think a section of the party is going to turn round now or at any point in the future and say “Oh now we realise that Galloway and his mob were doing us a favour” you are so deluded as to be off the scale.

    “Incidentally, the line that those who left were going to do so at some point anyway is a heartening sign of dogmatism. It just enables you to dismiss anyone as a flybynight or malcontent. Welcome to the self-sustaining but ever diminishing sect. For someone who claims to have time for the SWP you aren’t doing them any favours.”

    And of course you and your mates are all about doing them favours. If I thought there was any rational thought behind your post I might ask what you mean by the SWP being self-sustaining. Obviously I didn’t use the words flybynight or malcontent, you are yet again trying to ascribe quotes that never existed. Given that the three members expelled were followed by nobody (one comrade might have left the party in Manchester) I think you are the one with the dogmatic belief that because you were right about the attitude the SWP should have taken to the split, then there is bound to emerge at some point a faction in the SWP that agrees with you. You fool.

    “Presumably in that narrative Socialist Resistance would have been in on the plans”

    Liam- again please don’t feel you have to respond until you’ve had a decent rest. Is it remotely possible that nobody cared what Socialist Resistance did or thought at the time?

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  71. Lavellete made this speech at the Preston rally. Its useful because it gets through the lies in about 7 minutes. About the right time for those panicking when handed a megaphone (my usual response!).

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  72. JOhn G

    By the time you have people demanding that “the SWP’s influence is reduced in the wider society” I at least think you’ve reached the limit of sane political discourse. It goes anywhere from that point.

    I dn’t think that anyone was demanding that the SWP should be less infleuntial.

    The problem of your whole approach is evident here, in that yuo think the argument that the SWP is disproprotionately influential is actually insane.

    In this world view, the SWP are the centre of historical prgress, and the ranks outside the SWP comprise only three categories: i) the great unwashed, who have yet to learn about your greatness; ii) incorrigible sectarians who “attack” the SWP and are mired in squalid ghetos of far left politics. iii) those allies who will work with the SWP over specific projects.

    You shoudl reflect on why category iii tend to migrate to category ii. And also why category iii is so politically narrow, and tend to be people who have little independenct organisation of their own.

    In truth, the majority of socialist and progressive opinion, certainly in the trade unions, are not ignorant, they know what you stand for, and what sort of organisation your are, and they are opposed to it.

    This is not an insane posiition, that is the reality of grown up politics. many people think that the overall influence of the specific forms that the British Trotskyite left has taken has been negative.

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  73. Andy you’ve misread me. I just think discussions about ‘limiting the influence of the SWP in the ‘wider society’ is silliness. No more no less.

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  74. On a broader note, reflecting on the exchange the previous day, I tend to think that one problem that emerged in the first really serious attempt to build an electoral coalition in the post-war period was how to link the broader activities of the left with electoral politics. Due to problems of limited resources those closest to the electoral work tended to see non-electoral work as a diversion and in the process devalue the work of comrades engaged in other fronts of struggle. To me there is a certain symmetry between some of the mistakes we in the SWP made in this respect, and some of the responses of those who became most hostile to the SWP’s role in Respect. I am not here really critiquing today’s Respect as, given your resources, there is little else you could do. I do however think that serious thought about this is neccessary across the left and its been somewhat absent on all sides.

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  75. skidders – try to engage, not just repeat last year’s dogma. Believe me, you’ll find doing that will leave you in a very lonely place as the line changes.

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  76. “You shoudl reflect on why category iii tend to migrate to category ii. And also why category iii is so politically narrow, and tend to be people who have little independenct organisation of their own.
    In truth, the majority of socialist and progressive opinion, certainly in the trade unions, are not ignorant, they know what you stand for, and what sort of organisation your are, and they are opposed to it.
    This is not an insane posiition”
    Andy whilst not quite insane this comment does fly in the face of reality. In UNISON the United Left embraces all left organisations (with the exception of the Socialist Party) and whilst there is healthy disagreement on some issues, in general a good working relationship exists.

    Stop the War, UAF, Defend Council Housing all have wide support including prominent trade unionists, and are aware that the SWP play a prominent role.

    Of course some people are hostile to the SWP, probably more than the ten bloggers under various names that dominate your website. However to think the SWP are somehow isolated from the rest of the left is puerile. Of course many on the left do not disagree with the SWP, or else they would probably be members, but you should not mistake your views with the demonstrable reality of left politics.

    Is it because everyone loves you that Respect Renewal only exists in about a half dozen locations or is there a political explanation?

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  77. Should have read “do not agree” typo

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  78. Well, part of the political explanation might reside in the SWP’s political vandalism in smashing up our front room. But, y’know, time to move on. So rather than acting like one of those left behind WW2 Japanese soldiers stuck on an island still fighting a war that’s over, Digger would be better off looking forward. JR’s crap has finally caught up with him. If that’s all come as a nasty shock you can’t say you were not warned. Get over it. The responsibility for the all the damage incurred lies within the SWP, nowhere else.

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  79. Ger, best address your remarks about the war is over to your fellow Respect national committee member Andy Newman.

    I have long since moved on, but Andy still thinks he’s in the trenches and seems to spend most of his time sniping at the SWP. To nil productive effect.

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  80. Nasty – try to engage, not just repeat last year’s dogma. Believe me, you’ll find doing that will leave you in a very lonely place.

    thedigger – what you have to understand is that when Respect(minority) supporters were saying the war is over a few months ago, they meant that the success of their theft of the Respect name had finally been accepted by the SWP, so they didn’t feel that constantly attacking the SWP’s credibility would do them good, as they thought they had escaped into a blue horizon into a realm where their ever greater electoral success would place them at a table with the major bourgeois parties. Now that the disasters of their conference and the Mile End by-election have revealed them to be a tiny personality cult with no real niche, they are back to trying to carve out some sort of place for themselves on the far left and all they can think to do is sneeze at the SWP, a situation that looks likely to continue at least until the next election when it will be clear to anyone left who isn’t certifiable that Respect(tertium quid) is going nowhere very slowly.

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