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Respect says unite red and green to stop the BNP

A message to Respect supporters in the North West: Euro Elections By Dr Kay Phillips, National Chair, Respect With a headline including the words ‘European Elections’ it’s a good bet than many people will think this article isn’t for them. After all the majority of people don’t vote in these elections which come round every…

Liam
2–3 minutes

A message to Respect supporters in the North West: Euro Elections

By Dr Kay Phillips, National Chair, Respect

With a headline including the words ‘European Elections’ it’s a good bet than many people will think this article isn’t for them. After all the majority of people don’t vote in these elections which come round every five years. Those who do vote often never hear from those they have elected for the next five years.

So you could be forgiven for thinking that this summer’s European Parliament elections, to be held on June 10th, can be safely put into the box marked – ‘not important or relevant to me.’ But to do that this year could mean waking up on June 11th to a very ugly fright.
The British National Party have declared their intention to stand in these elections – and to head their list in the North West with their leader Nick Griffin.

Because these elections are held under a system of proportional representation this means that a party only needs around 8% of the vote to win a seat.

If those who are opposed to the racist and anti-worker policies of the BNP stay at home on election day then this fascist party will have a greater chance of winning one seat. That would give their leader a office with a large budget and the electoral credibility to allow him into our newspapers and onto our television sets. It would be a disaster for community relations across the North West and beyond.
As the election approaches you may hear from New Labour supporters that the only way to stop the BNP is to vote Labour. This is a bit rich considering it is the disillusionment with Blair and Brown plus their pandering to the right wing press on issues like immigration and asylum that have allowed the BNP to grow.

But many people simply can’t stomach the idea of voting Labour again.

In such circumstances those who oppose the BNP must take the danger of them winning a seat very seriously indeed. It is for this reason that Respect have decided not to stand in this year’s Euro-elections but, instead, to ask our supporters vote for the Green Party list headed by Peter Cranie.

We did not take this decision lightly but we genuinely believe that the votes of both Respect and Green Party are better combined than divided. Respect has a number of political differences with the Greens but we are confident that their lead candidate, Peter Cranie – who has a consistent record of anti-racism and issues such as support for Palestine – would make an excellent, progressive MEP.

So please ensure that you are registered to vote before these elections in June – and when the day arrives please don’t stay at home. This year your vote really does matter.

You have until the 19th May to register to vote.

Please have a look at these websites: Stop Nick Griffin – the site for suppporting Peter Cranie. Plus, the article from The Independent which picks up on Respect’s belief about how to stop the BNP this June: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/best-way-to-beat-the-bnp-is-to-vote-green-1678539.html

40 responses to “Respect says unite red and green to stop the BNP”

  1. Richard Hatcher Avatar
    Richard Hatcher

    Polling day for the European and local elections is on Thursday 4 June, not the 11th.

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  2. Doug Avatar
    Doug

    Well done, Respect. Calling for a vote for a capitalist middle class glorified environmental pressure group instead of No2Eu, an amalgamation of a left wing union and two socialist organisations. Best take your coat with you – it’ll be really cold out in the wilderness.

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  3. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    Doug

    No2EU leaders say they entirely understand why Manchester Respect supporters have agreed to back the Greens. I think if you asked most of them in the North West, they were planning on voting Green anyway before No2EU existed.

    Well done the CPB in No2EU for insisting on having on the No2EU list, the pro-capitalist anti-socialist leader of the ‘responsible’ opposition on Liverpool City Council who denounced a return to ‘Militant days’ on their website – step forward the bourgeois capitalist Liberal Party, no class fighters these guys but ferociously anti-EU and with 92,000 votes last to good an ally to mess up for the unnecessary principle of supporting working class struggles. Shame on the SP for agreeing to this.

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  4. ID Avatar
    ID

    Respect does not support the Greens nationally. Unfortunately, it narrowly voted to support no-one nationally but to leave it to individual branches and/or regions. The proposal to support No2EU nationally that lost would have made an exception for the North West position, which was arrived at before No2EU was created. But it would have bolstered No2EU – and Respect’s influence on it – by giving it a national endorsement. Not doing so was a real error and a step backward from fighting for left/working class unity.

    The inclusion of the Liberal maverick is a real flaw in No2EU, but it does not compare with the Greens as an outright middle-class party (as opposed to a working class ticket with a bourgeois maverick hanging on). There’s been no shortage of those in the history of the British working class movement. Life is full of contradictions and messy situations.

    In any case, if you are looking for something ‘pure’ before deciding to engage and participate, then you will be in for a long wait.

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  5. ID Avatar
    ID

    I should add that Southwark Respect, which is probably the most organised branch of Respect in London, voted unanimously to support No2EU at a special branch meeting on 23 April. Also, Nick Wrack, Respect NC member and former Respect National Secretary, will be a candidate for No2EU on the London list.

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  6. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    If No2EU had asked Respect to be involved in the discussion about its formation, then the problems about who to support maybe could have been avoided? That responsibility rests solely with those who put together No2EU – the CPB, SP and the leadership of the RMT.

    As it is there will be Respect members on various lists of No2EU, though all of them will have to abide by the decision of the CPB taken before the campaign was set up to base the election campaign on a boycott of taking up any seats won. The SP hope that this can be overturned after the election, if any seats are won – but who by? who will have the right to decide what No2EU does? and how will this decision be manifested?

    What could have been a bold attempt to organise a left alternative to Labour backed by a trade union is in danger of sliding into irrelevance and apathy.

    Meanwhile we run the risk of Griffin striding into the European Parliament and using it as a platform to build the BNP. What a totally avoidable shambles.

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  7. Liam Avatar
    Liam

    Comrade Exile is right. A lot of silly squabbling could have been avoided if some account had been taken of the fact that Respect has an MP, some councillors and a voter base and been invited to take part in the discussions setting up No2EU. Presenting people with a fait accompli is not usually good for building trust or alliances.

    The hope is that everyone involved who is committed to building a left of Labour party sobers up when they see the BNP vote and realise just how necessary joint work is.

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  8. Peter Cranie Avatar
    Peter Cranie

    I respect the decision of anyone who votes no2eu in this election. I understand the reasons why you will do so, but to those who would prefer to support Respect or another party and are going to back us in the North West, thank you.

    A lot of the criticisms about Greens being white and middle class only have some truth, but are changing. But I grew up on a Scottish Special housing estate, my uncle was a miner, my grandfather was a miner and my great grandfather was blacklisted in the General Strike. There are also many working class people and people who know their political history in the Greens as well.

    Unusually, we are getting some national coverage, and hopefully this far our from the election it will get more people out to vote against the BNP. Today it was the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/05/greens-bnp-euro-election

    If anyone is around Liverpool, Merseyside Coalition Against Racism and Fascism, is beginning to put out 85,000 (non party political) leaflets, beginning in Toxteth, on 7th May. Meet times are 10am, 12 noon and 2pm at the Caribbean Centre. MCARF has no2eu, Respect and Green participation.

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  9. ID Avatar
    ID

    Respect may have not been involved in the initial discussions, but we had an invitation to the steering committee with the likelihood of playing a major role – if we had voted to endorse it. However, we narrowly decided not to in favour of hedging our bets in class terms and leaving the door open to the Greens – and not just in the North West (which is slightly different because their decision was taken before No2EU was formed).

    As for the idea that having an MP and some councillors entitles you to take part in a project, well sorry, but there is a degree of self-aggrandising arrogance there. Trust is a two-way street, and has to be built. Particularly in the light of previous setbacks in building a broad party, that attitude can only be counterproductive in approaching any new development that might point in that direction. Respect is not the finished article, as we made clear in our 2008 conference resolutions, the spirit of which have been vitiated by recent events. A little humility goes a long way in building trust when approaching new political developments.

    Peter Cranie writes of:

    “criticisms about Greens being white and middle class only ”

    Actually, the critique is not sociological. It is political. It is that the Greens do not champion the working class as a class against the bosses, don’t define themselves in that way, and don’t see environmental issues in that context. If they did, they would be a different party. I’m fully aware that there are pro-worker elements in the Greens, but they are a minority and are still committed to an inclusive Green party that includes Malthusians and others who see the working class as part of the problem.

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  10. ID Avatar
    ID

    Below is a useful report from Rob Hoveman of a very good Respect activity around the Olympics site in the East End, with Abjol Miah playing a very creditable role in standing alongside trade unionists in defending the rights of local workers – many of whom are in this case Bengalis and others of immigrant descent – to be treated equally in terms of employment on the Olympic site.

    This just underlines the character of the mistake Socialist Resistance supporters made in voting as a bloc against Respect giving its endorsement to No2EU nationally. Abjol would be in an even more powerful position to exert political leverage if he had been a candidate on the No2EU list alongside Bob Crow in London – which would have been quite concievable if the vote had gone the other way at the Respect NC. This incidentally would also have raised Abjol’s profile much higher for the General Election and could be a major unifying factor for the left across London with the General Election in mind.

    This was a huge, and damaging mistake by Socialist Resistance. In voting against a class-based position on the European elections at the Respect NC, SR have shot not only themselves, but also Respect, in the foot.

    ————————

    “Abjol Miah, the Respect group leader on Tower Hamlets council, spoke at a rally outside the Olympics site this morning by Bow flyonver in East London. I would estimate about 500 construction workers from all over the country came down to protest about employment issues at the site. Abjol spoke along with Bob Crow and Ketih Gibson, a key leader in the Lindsey oil refinery strike. The protest then headed off to parliament for a lobby and to support an EDM put down by John McDonnell MP.

    This was Abjol’s speech (which went down very well):

    “I am giving the protest this morning my full support and I am proud to be here as a Tower Hamlets councillor and leader of the Respect Group.

    “I want to make three points quickly.

    “Firstly, we were sold the Olympics on the basis that the billions of pounds being spent on it will leave a lasting benefit for the people of East London. Tower Hamlets and Newham are two of the poorest boroughs in Britain. Thousands of families are struggling by on just £15,000 per year and there are very high levels of unemployment amongst young people.

    “The Olympics ought to be an opportunity for people in Tower Hamlets and Newham to get training in construction through apprenticeships and through employment on the site.

    “And yet Tower Hamlets residents now count for only two percent of employment on the Olympics site. Even that is exaggerated as the figures do not distinguish between long-term residents in the borough and those only living here whilst they are working on the site. And the number of apprenticeships and in particular the number of apprenticeships going to Tower Hamlets residents is pitiful. This has got to change.

    “Secondly, workers on this site must be covered by national agreements, so there is no undercutting of pay rates and conditions by the sorts of employment practices we’ve seen at the Lindsey refinery and elsewhere.

    “Thirdly, I’m very concerned about the gagging contracts being imposed by the ODA on contractors and employees which potentially prevent workers from whistle-blowing when health and safety issues arise. We have already had asbestos scares and as deadlines on contracts approach the pressure will inevitably grow for corners to be cut. We have to have strong union organisation and whistle-blowing protection to ensure health and safety is not jeopardised.

    “Let’s be clear what this protest is all about. It’s not about discriminating against so-called foreign workers. My kids were born in Tower Hamlets within the sound of Bow Bells, which makes them cockneys, but my parents were ‘foreigners’ once. What this is about is getting a fair deal for people locally and for workers more generally. And that’s the campaign I, with my colleagues, will be pursuing with Tower Hamlets council, one of the five host boroughs for the Olympics.”

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  11. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    ID, at the risk of boring everyone solid with repetition …

    .. the responsibility for not inviting Respect to take part at the initial stages of the drawing up of lists of No2EU rests entirely with the organisers of that process – the CPB, RMT leadership and the SP – does it not?

    The No2EU organisers did however invite the bourgeois and pro-capitalist Liberal Party to take part in No2EU at the earliest stage, and their recent president was a signature of the No2EU supporters list published on the 18th March, and was guaranteed a place on the North West list by the CPB before the process began, something the Socialist Party belatedly accepted. No member of Respect was invited to sign the No2EU supporters list. and it has not been added to since publication in March

    ID should be asking why the CPB and SP did not formally ask the Respect leadership, including prominent members such as Abjol Miah, to the initial talks they held about the framework and platform of No2EU.

    It is no more a class based position to automatically support No2EU than it is to automatically support the Labour Party, which still has the vast majority of politically affiliated working class organisations supporting it. It certainly cannot be a position of crossing class lines to not automatically support No2EU when the No2EU list in the North West has a clear cross-class based approach., something ID despite harping on about ‘class lines’ does not appear interested in

    The first slate from No2EU to be announced was that in Scotland, which in addition to bypassing the Scottish Socialist Party is headed by a history professor, a media commentator and a law graduate/student – it’s hardly an overwhelming advert for a proletarian struggle, is it ID?

    As it is, the differences in the motions put to the Respect NC were only in tactical terms not their fundamental character – Respect welcomed the formation of No2EU at the first opportunity it had.

    It remains that whatever happens to No2EU it is clear it is not going to last past the European Elections and people like Abjol Miah are doing the right thing to try to hold their council seats in 2010 and win the highest vote possible as Respect candidates.

    ID’s tirade about the supposed class character of the decision at the Respect National Council is wrong and becoming tiresome and irrelevant. It sounds more like somebody in the Spartacist League fond of denouncing everyone for crossing class lines on every minor tactic, than someone seriously engaging in socialist political strategy.

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  12. ID Avatar
    ID

    The repetition is coming from Prinkipo Exile here. We are supposed to be the facilitators of left unity. We are supposed to set the agenda here, not passively wait for others to do so. If we are serious about this, that is.

    “It remains that whatever happens to No2EU it is clear it is not going to last past the European Elections and people like Abjol Miah are doing the right thing to try to hold their council seats in 2010 and win the highest vote possible as Respect candidates.”

    And of course, standing on the No2EU slate would really be counterposed to Abjol being elected as a councillor or MP, wouldn’t it? No, it would have acted to build links with RMT people and others who could actually broaden the base of support for Respect in the East End and elsewhere.

    It is not ‘clear’ that No2EU is not going to last beyond the Euro Elections. In some form, there will likely be a continuation if even a modestly decent vote is obtained. You can wish away something inconvenient, but what happens if it doesn’t go away?

    As for my ‘irrelevant’ arguments against voting Green against No2EU, I suppose those workers who suffer when Green councillors vote for privatisation would also consider them irrelevant? I suspect not.

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  13. Mark P Avatar
    Mark P

    The self-justificatory whining is hilarious.

    As ID said, if you were serious about getting involved you’d have asked to be involved not assumed that the RMT would automatically contact your (very small) party because it has an MP. Then, when the RMT does actually invite you at a later stage in the process… you decide not to get involved.

    I don’t know why the RMT didn’t invite Respect at the very beginning – possibly it’s because of the grotesquely sectarian response of the then united Respect to the prospect of the RMT running or endorsing candidates in the last London elections? – but the fact remains that you were invited later on, and regardless of whether you were invited or not, if you are serious about building a working class alternative it is incumbent on you to push to be involved. I have no idea why you didn’t and I have no idea what you think you are doing backing the capitalist Green Party in at least part of the country instead. It’s an entirely confused – and confusing – approach.

    As for the rump SSP, there was never any prospect of them getting involved because they quite seriously think that Tommy Sheridan’s tackle is the chief dividing line in world politics today. Presumably, unlike the rump SSP, Respect doesn’t have the excuse of mass brain damage.

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  14. ID Avatar
    ID

    Prinikipo Exile’s arguments only make sense if he believes it is actually unprincipled to endorse No2EU as it stands. If someone in SR would actually come out and argue that, we might have a fruitful debate. But I doubt anyone will.

    In any case, they would be on very shaky ground arguing, for instance, that the prescence of a Liberal in one regional No2EU list makes the whole thing unprincipled, so much so that its OK to advocate votes for the middle class radical Greens against it.

    I’ve already made it clear that I think that this Liberal participation is a flaw. But that hardly negates the class character of the RMT, or the CPB, or the SP, or the quite impressive list of other clearly working class figures who are supporting it, including, at least implicitly, Tony Benn. One should argue against the residual popular-frontism that has found its way in, but that doesn’t negate the working class character of this lineup one iota. Nor is this remotely comparable to voting for New Labour. We are talking about committed opponents of New Labour from the left – our natural allies. Which the Greens, the Green left notwithstanding, are not!

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  15. Andy Newman Avatar
    Andy Newman

    It is simply not true that Respect is turning away from left unity. It is just that many of us have a rather broader view of what that means,

    Salma is speaking at the Compass conference on 13th June, for example.

    Respect is supporting the very left wing Green candidate, Peter Cranie, in the NW region,

    these are themselves steps towards left unity.

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  16. Alan Thornett Avatar
    Alan Thornett

    ID is well aware of the reasons why I voted for the flexible option at the Respect NC, which was to allow the regions and the branches and individual members to determine their own formal position on no2eu.
    The first was because I held the view that Respect should stand itself in London, if it could get a campaign together, in order to keep itself in the public eye in preparation for the general election. That was not clear at the NC. Respect has been in the electoral field for five years and it has a base of support to maintain. I have never understood the argument that it would have been in some way unprincipled for Respect to stand once no2eu emerged. It is tantamount to arguing that Respect should have wound up once no2eu was launched. It makes no sense. In any case Respect’s base of support in London is very different to that which no2eu would expect to win and there would have been hardly any overlap.
    The other reason is that no2eu is controversial on the left and inside Respect and there was no chance that the whole of Respect could have been realistically won to support for no2eu by a majority vote on the NC. Opinion was sharply divided. No2eu had only existed a few weeks and people had different assessments and different experiences of it. It was wrong and divisive in my view to try to impose a uniform policy even with the North West excluded. The resolution adopted was far better. It adopted a friendly and supportive attitude to no2eu at national level whilst allowing the regions and the branches to take their own decisions as far as formal support was concerned.
    If ID thinks that it is crossing class lines either to advocate that Respect stands in London, or that it is crossing class lines to vote for anything at the NC short of a blanket instruction to support no2eu then he has a political problem. These are completely tactical issues, and quite complicated ones. It may not be clear for some time exactly who is right and who is wrong on some of these things. But a bit less heat and a better sense of proportion would help quite a lot. Meanwhile those, including myself, who believe that now Respect is not standing it is right to give support to no2eu everywhere other than the North West can get on with campaigning.

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  17. bill j Avatar
    bill j

    I think it would be more accurate to say its crossing class lines to vote for No2EU.
    An organisation, inasmuch as it exists, who’s platform supports immigration controls, protectionism and implicitly British Jobs for British workers.
    Although at a meeting I attended to launch it in Manchester the chair objected to the idea that that could be implicit and denounced the Socialist Party for attempting to claim their could be any ambiguity on the matter.

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  18. ID Avatar
    ID

    Actually, I never said that advocating Respect stand in London was ‘crossing class lines’ or anything of the sort. I do think it is choosing incorrect class sides to refuse to support No2EU in favour of supporting the Green Party, i.e. it is a dilution of class politics and a failure to uphold class criteria when determining electoral tactics. That is a rather different point and the attempt to caricature this point as some ultra-sectarian accusation of ‘crossing class lines’ or scabbing, or something like that, is a red herring.

    I dont think it was ever seriously on the agenda that Respect stand in London for the Euro Elections for the simple reason that we don’t have the resources. All shades of opinion in Respect knew that. Busting a gut to do so would have been subsitutionist and simply a sectarian spoiler against No2EU, which unlike the SWP’s Left List fiasco represents a real step forward by a workers organisation. Respect’s job is not simply to stand in elections but to act as a facilitator to a wider working class initiative in the political arena – that is what we agreed at conference as I recall. Supporting No2EU in a situation when we did not have the resources to stand ourselves would be the ideal way to demonstrate that in practice.

    As to No2EU being ‘divisive’, I remember when people used to say similar things about George Galloway. I didn’t buy that then, I don’t buy this now. The NC is an elected body – it has the democratic authority to take a policy decision and if necessary, to be challenged at conference if it gets things wrong.

    But for the NC to take ‘a position not to take a position’ on grounds that it can’t lead the membership that elected it is an abdication of responsibility. This argument in reality means that Alan knows deep down that I am right but fears that other trends in Respect might not accept it if the NC voted the way it should have. I actually think that is untrue, but if it was true, ultimately, that’s politics. You have to do what you know is right, and not dance to the tune of people you disagree with. But this is the logic of following other political agendas that are not your own – the worst of all worlds.

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  19. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    ID – you are inconsistent.

    Respect welcomed No2EU.

    But in the North West Respect had already agreed to support the Green Party – and Nick Wrack accepted this should stand.

    No2EU in the north west, which is where I live, includes quite explicitly the bourgeois pro capitalist Liberal Party leader Steve Radford who calls his party the ‘responsible’ opposition on Liverpool City Council and denounces any return to ‘Militant days’. The RMT say they want him on board solely because the Liberal Party got a lot of votes last time and they want them this time. If that is not cross-class opportunism I don’t know what is!

    And yet you say it is ‘crossing class lines’ not to automatically vote for the list including this individual???

    Give it a rest and come back when you’ve taken a reality check!

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  20. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    One other thing ID. On June 7th I might wake up to the prospect of five years of having Nick Griffin as one of my MEPs.

    Give those of us who live here some credit for thinking that might be rather important – and something we would like to avoid if possible.

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  21. ID Avatar
    ID

    The North West agreement was made before No2EU was created, and entered into with the blessing of the NC then. It would have been bureaucratic and arbitrary to have simply overruled it, which is why the motion to support No2EU that the SR comrades on the NC voted against was amended to specifically exclude the North West.

    Because of that concession, this point is a red herring.

    However, that was not the only place where it was argued that Respect should vote Green against No2EU. The same argument was also made for Birmingham, where no such prior agreement existed.

    I don’t believe in breaking agreements made in good faith and bureaucratically overruling people who have to implement those decisions. But I do believe in arguing for what is correct in overall terms. Why could not Respect have had a policy of supporting No2EU on a national level, while specifically excluding the North West because of the prior agreement? Remember, this was the proposal on the table and SR comrades voted against it.

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  22. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    ID. So, even though it is crossing class lines you agree that people should vote for the Green list instead of No2EU in the North West? Thanks. I’m really clear now what you think I should do.

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  23. Richard Searle Avatar
    Richard Searle

    On one practical note, members of Respect and the Green party will join together to leaflet the 76,000 Mancunians who will turn up to the Manchester derby between City and United this Sunday to get out the Don’t vote BNP message.

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  24. ID Avatar
    ID

    Personally, I think people should vote for the No2EU list. But I dont believe in imposing my views and forcing others to overturn prior agreements made in good faith.

    If that’s not clear, then I don’t know what is.

    Still no explanation of why SR voted against a policy it claims to agree with that specifically excluded the North West?

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  25. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    ID – your personal preference is one thing, and you are entitled to vote for a list containing a right wing bourgeois politician if you wish to. There are pros and cons around this position.

    But are you still saying it is crossing class lines to vote for the Green Party list in the North West, or just a minor tactical difference?

    Which is it, because I am genuinely confused about what your tirade on this means in practice?

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  26. ID Avatar
    ID

    So you don’t understand that there is a class difference between voting for a petty-bourgeois candidate and a candidate of a working class list – even if there is one bourgeois interloper on it?

    Or do you consider that the Greens have suddenly become a working class party?

    Are you arguing that the presence of the Liberal at No5 on one regional list renders No2EU bourgeois?

    Or what are you arguing?

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  27. ID Avatar
    ID

    More to the point, what do you think of the point made by a spokesperson for Birmingham Respect in the NC, that No2EU should not be endorsed by Respect nationally, because that would prevent a deal with the Green Party in Birmingham (which subsequenly proved non-existent)?

    SR comrades at the NC voted operatively for this, not the North West agreement that was made when No2EU did not exist. The North-West issue was not affected by the proposal they voted against becuse it was expressly excluded from that policy motion.

    And do you think it is a good thing that there are no officially -endorsed (by the NC) Respect candidates on the No2EU list anywhere in the country? Do you think it good that none of our councillors in East London had the chance to be on the London list because of the refusal of Respect nationally to endorse No2EU?

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  28. ID Avatar
    ID

    The truth is, in this debate, Prinkipo Exile is not defending the interests of Respect or even the broad party project in a wider context. He is defending the sectarian interests of Socialist Resistance against non-aligned comrades whose basic loyalty is to the broad party project in a larger sense. Which is a bit sad, is it not?

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  29. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    No ID, you don’t get off the hook that easily – you said in a post above:

    “I do think it is choosing incorrect class sides to refuse to support No2EU in favour of supporting the Green Party”

    I am asking you to confirm the consequence of your statement: that anyone who votes for the Green Party in the North West is on the wrong side of the class lines, and therefore part of the class enemy.

    And that therefore in your view those members of Respect who vote for the Greens in the North West have become enemies of the working class.

    That’s certainly the tone of your rhetoric. Socialists do not throw allegations of being on the wrong side of the class lines about lightly – to see this as an issue of principle rather than just a tactical disagreement about voting tactics is to change the nature of the debate entirely.

    What is your position?

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  30. ID Avatar
    ID

    “I am asking you to confirm the consequence of your statement: that anyone who votes for the Green Party in the North West is on the wrong side of the class lines, and therefore part of the class enemy.”

    I will answer that absurd caricature when and if you quote me saying exactly that. Since I never did, you are playing a silly, sectarian game. I repeatedly pointed out that at the time that (North West) agreement with the Greens was made, No2EU did not exist. If it had existed at the time it was made, the agreement would have been fundamentally wrong. But it didn’t. And I am not in favour of bureaucratically forcing people to break agreements previously made in a different political situation.

    Can you answer my point – do you think it a good thing that SR supporters blocked the endorsement of Respect for No2EU nationally, and therefore blocked Respect councillors in East London from any possiblity of standing on the London list?

    And what about Birmingham (see above)? Can’t you answer my point on that, since obviously it was Birmingham, not the North West, that motivated the SR NC members to vote against a national Respect endorsement for No2EU?

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  31. Liam Avatar
    Liam

    Ian – by clicking on the link http://socialistresistance.org/?p=475 you end up at an article on the SR site called “SR: Supporting ‘no2eu-yes to democracy’ on June 4th”. That’s pretty unambiguous.

    Equally clear is Alan’s explanation yesterday. There was a substantial body of opinion on the Respect NC which was not as well informed about No2eu as its partisans or was not fully supportive of the project.

    The tactical judgement, and it was nothing but tactics, was that there was nothing to be gained by forcing through a divisive resolution. You take a different point of view on that. The compromise, and it’s unlikely to be the last any of us will ever make, was to support a resolution that allowed those of us who wanted to support No2eu to do so.

    As for blocking East London councillors from going on the list that makes no sense. Two SR supporters who are both Respect members were selected for the No2eu list and Nick’s Respect membership has not prevented him from being selected.

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  32. Prinkipo Exile Avatar
    Prinkipo Exile

    Fine ID. I’m glad to know I haven’t crossed class lines by considering voting Green. As it is I have yet to make up my mind – I think Roger Bannister is an excellent candidate. But the CPB’s position of insisting on a right wing liberal, “to get votes”, and the threat of Nick Griffin winning as seat makes me pause for thought.

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  33. Andy Newman Avatar
    Andy Newman

    So, in ID view, it wwould have been right for a load of midde aged white trots in London to force Birmigham to do something they didn’t want to?

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  34. ID Avatar
    ID

    Liam

    “As for blocking East London councillors from going on the list that makes no sense. Two SR supporters who are both Respect members were selected for the No2eu list and Nick’s Respect membership has not prevented him from being selected.”

    I know for a fact that Nick Wrack’s inclusion on the London list was because of his outspoken advocacy of No2EU – which is very well known. Those SR members who were selected are hardly part of the mainstream of SR opinion – extremely outspoken supporters of No2EU. One I understand it has withdrawn – because his candidacy would have been in the North West and therefore at odds with the North West Green Party tactic.

    Respect in London has not endorsed No2EU, and no meeting has been called of London members despite Southwark passing a resolution asking for one to be called. How on earth can official, accredited representatives of an organisation that has declined to endorse a coalition expect to be on its slate? That makes no sense.

    Andy Newman, by the way, has a strategy. Its one I fundamentally disagree with, but at least I know what it is. Of course he disagrees with No2EU – his choice of allies is Compass and the Reclaim Labour milieu. Not the Trade Union centred left involved in No2EU. He has even criticised John McDonnell’s supporters for ‘ultra-leftism’.

    But SR does not have a coherent strategy, hence the floundering and the heat (but not light) generated from the posts above from SR supporters. There was everything to gain from showing leadership by voting to endorse No2EU – real, conspicuous and official support by Respect for No2EU – identified Respect candidates on its lists, and the building of solid links with other sections of the left that would undoubtedly benefit Respect in the General Election. SR voted against that, which was a serious error.

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  35. Andy Newman Avatar
    Andy Newman

    “There was everything to gain from showing leadership by voting to endorse No2EU ”

    There was also the possibility of creating an actual split, by voting for something that others could not accept, which is not how coalitional politics are built.

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  36. Andy Newman Avatar
    Andy Newman

    Incidently ID, I think I am closer to the polictis of many in the NO2EU campaign than you are.

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  37. ID Avatar
    ID

    Andy Newman

    “There was also the possibility of creating an actual split, by voting for something that others could not accept, which is not how coalitional politics are built.”

    No2EU is also a coalition, which we effectively declined to join with the vote at the NC. It is also a temporary coalition, at least in its initial remit, though it may evolve into something more permanent. Respect however is supposed to be a party, not just a coalition, and one hopes that it would not fall to pieces because the elected leadership votes for a policy, as opposed to voting not to have a policy, which is what happened.

    “Incidently ID, I think I am closer to the polictis of many in the NO2EU campaign than you are.”

    Possibly so in ideological terms. But I am in favour of building a broad party of the left, that includes people of different ideological views who are united by that perspective, as an alternative to Labour. I’m quite happy to work with those who agree with that who have a range of ideological views.

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  38. Stuart King Avatar
    Stuart King

    What is astonishing is that the politics of these parties and electoral blocks you are fighting to support gets hardly a mention, and where it does you use purely sociological definitions. The Green Party is “middle class” for those who don’t want to support it, while NO2EU is “working class” because it has some trade unionists in it.

    The Green Party is a bourgeois party because it has a bourgeois programme, it certainly draws the bulk of its membership from the radical middle classes. But then so did Respect, indeed in class terms it was more “middle class” in so far as it purposely drew in sections of the Asian petit-bourgeoisie and attempted to build a populist, cross class alliance.

    Is it little wonder that in an advanced state of disintegration, different parts of Respect fly off in different directions? Some go to the Greens other to NO2EU.

    And what is the political nature of NO2EU? It is a block for propaganda having no mass base (even the RMT leadership didn’t dare involve the members and RMT conference). What is it making propaganda for? The old popular frontist (cross class perspective) of the stalinists (CPB). Support for British capitalist manufacturers against “international European finance capital” – no wonder it tries to draw in the Liberals – plus a good dose of nationalism and anti-foreign worker prejudice thrown in.

    So the NO2EU campaign is not “working class” – it is cross class, reformist and pro-capitalist.

    Andy Newman sums up this farrago – “coalitional politics” means not deciding on anything in case it causes a split. Yet everyone in Respect is splitting all over the place. It’s a sad sight.

    By the way, before your MP leaves for his comfortable retirement, has George let you know what is about to be revealed on his allowances/expenses? Or is he going to let you find out in the pages of the Daily Telegraph?

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  39. Richard Searle Avatar
    Richard Searle

    This is the letter sent to The Observer last week in response to the major piece they ran on the BNP. It wasn”t published in todays edition, though they has published today a number of other anti-BNP letters.

    Polling by two of the parties in the North West put the BNP only 1% above that of the Green Party. A situation that can be changed over the next 3 weeks

    ————————————–
    FAO Letters Page

    The Observer

    4th May

    Voting the BNP out of politics

    Your article on the rise of the BNP and the threat they pose in the coming Euro elections is timely. It is I believe, a deep and profound alienation from our political set up that is driving some sections of the community to look towards the BNP to provide some kind of answers to the world we live in. This is not unsurprising when all three major parties have been merged into one in the worship of market forces and ordinary people feel abandoned by the Labour Party.

    However, this is not the whole story. Your editorial, ‘ We must vote the BNP out of politics’ suggests quiet rightly that the best antidote to the BNP would be a movement that aspires to represent everyone, and one that would speak with moral authority. We have, I would argue, the foundations for such a movement. Over the last 8 years this country has had a vibrant anti-war movement that has united hundreds of thousands across race and religion in the cause of human solidarity. It can rightly claim to have a moral authority when it has challenged the government and establishment justification of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and support for Isreali aggression

    It is this constituency, which gave birth to my party, Respect, that we are seeking to mobilise in the Euro elections in opposition to the BNP. Respect is not standing in the Euro elections in the North West but are standing aside and are calling on those who would vote for us to Vote for the Green Party. We believe that the votes of Respect and the Green Party are better combined than divided, especially in this key battleground. This makes absolute sense in elections held under proportional representation and where smaller parties can get elected. In the context of the North West Euro constituency it could mean the Green Party elected or the BNP. The difference between hope over hate.

    yours sincerely

    Dr Kay Phillips

    Respect – national chair

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  40. Neil Wiliams Avatar
    Neil Wiliams

    ID “Respect’s job is not simply to stand in elections but to act as a facilitator to a wider working class initiative in the political arena – that is what we agreed at conference as I recall. Supporting No2EU in a situation when we did not have the resources to stand ourselves would be the ideal way to demonstrate that in practice.”

    Could not agree more. The decision not to back No2EU has for the first time meant that Respect instead of leading the struggle (something I and others were proud of) to build a new democratic “Left “aleternative to New Labour is now lagging behind – it was a mistake and a big one in my opinion – a very big one!. It will be interetsing to see what positions those that voted to not to support No2EU at national level take on the General Election.

    If Respect does go it alone (as just Respect and not Respect as part of a larger coalition/left alliance) then for my money Respects role is finished other than as a localised support group (no different from Blaenau Gwent People’s Party ) for one or two MP’s at best or just a few Councillors – it would not be the Socialist (its what S in RESPECT stands for) Party that set out to work with others and could atempt to do so for the next election (we dont have to wait for others to approach us do we?).

    I am certain that if Respect fails to make this transition by the next election then there will be no meaningful Respect Party in 24months time but there is still time – there could be if Respect was part of something bigger than the very small orgainstion it is now.

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