I’m away for a few days and service will be a bit haphazard. So to keep things ticking over here’s a piece by Phil Hearse as a imagecontribution to an ongoing discussion which is happening somewhere in the world. I’ve extracted some bullet points which reappear later in the text.

Broad left parties (or alliances) are not united fronts around specific questions, but political blocs. For them to develop and keep their unity, they have to function according to basic democratic rules. However this cannot be reduced to the simplistic notion that there are votes and the majority rules. This leaves out of account the anomalies and anti-democratic practices which the existence of organised revolutionary currents can give rise to if they operate in a factional way. On this we would advance the following general guidelines:

  • Inside broad left formations there has to be a real, autonomous political life in which people who are not members of an organised current can have confidence that decisions are not being made behind their backs in a disciplined caucus that will impose its views – they have to be confident that their political contribution can affect political debates.

  • This means that no revolutionary current can have the ‘disciplined Phalanx’ concept of operation. Except in the case of the degeneration of a broad left current (as in Brazil) we are not doing entry work or fighting a bureaucratic leadership. This means in most debates, most of the time, members of political currents should have the right to express their own viewpoint irrespective of the majority view in their own current. If this doesn’t happen the real balance of opinion is obscured and democracy negated. Evidently this shouldn’t be the case on decisive questions of the interest of the working class and oppressed – like sending troops to Afghanistan. But if there are differences on issues like that, then membership of a revolutionary current is put in question.

  • Revolutionary tendencies should avoid like the plague attempts to use their organisational weight to impose decisions against everyone else. That’s a disastrous mode of operation in which democracy is a fake. If a revolutionary tendency can’t win its opinions in open and democratic debate, unless it involves fundamental questions of the interest of the working class and oppressed, compromises and concessions have to be made. Democracy is a fake if a revolutionary current says ‘debate is OK, and we’ll pack meetings to ensure we win it’.

  • Revolutionaries – individuals and currents – have to demonstrate their commitment and loyalty to the broad left formation of which they are a part. That means prioritising the activities and press of the broad formation itself. Half in, half out, doesn’t work.

  • We should put no a priori limits on the evolution of a broad left formation. Its evolution will be determined by how it responds to the major questions in the fight against imperialism and neoliberal capitalism, not by putting a 1930s label on it (like ‘centrism’).

  • The example of the PSoL in Brazil shows it is perfectly possible to function as a broad socialist party with several organised militant socialist currents within it. The precondition of giving organised currents the right to operate within a broad party is that they do not circumvent the rights of the members who are not members of organised currents.

    What kind of left for the 21st century?

    Broad left parties and democratic centralism

    circoBE.jpg

    Since the beginning of the decade important steps have been made in rebuilding the left internationally, following the working class defeats of the ‘80s and ‘90s and the negative impact of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Starting with the demonstrations against the World Trade Organisation conference in Seattle at the end of 1999, an important global justice movement emerged, which fed directly into the building of a massive anti-war movement that internationally dwarfed the anti-Vietnam war movement in the 1960s. These processes breathed fresh life into the left, as could be seen already at the Florence European Social Movement in 2002 where the presence of the Rifondazione Comunista and the tendencies of the far left was everywhere. In addition, the massive rebirth of the left and socialism in Latin America has fuelled these processes.

    However unlike the regrowth and redefinition of the left symbolised by the years 1956 and 1968, in the first decade of the 21st century things were much more difficult objectively, with the working class mainly on the defensive. Multiple debates on orientation and strategy have started to sweep the international left, leading to a reconfiguration of the socialist movement in several countries.

    Positive aspects of this process include historic events in Venezuela and Bolivia (with all their problems), the emergence of Die Linke – the Left party – in Germany, the Left Bloc in Portugal and indeed new left formations in many countries.

    In other countries the left redefinitions have been decidedly mixed. For example the Sinistra Critica (Critical Left) went out of the Communist Refoundation in Italy, over the fundamental question of the latter’s support for Italian participation in the Afghanistan war. In Brazil a militant minority walked out of the Workers Party (PT) to found the Socialism and Liberty Party (PSOL), over the central question of the Lula government’s application of a neoliberal policy which made a mockery of the name of the party. This splits, for sure, represented a political clarification and an attempt to rescue and defend principled class struggle politics. But the evolution of the majority in both the PT and Communist Refoundation are of course massive defeats for the left.

    So, in many countries debates are opening up about what kind of left we need in the 21st century. This is of course normal; each successive stage of the international class struggle, especially after world historic events of the type we have seen after 25 years of neoliberalism, poses the issue of socialist organisation anew. It is absurd to imagine that it is possible to take off the shelf wholesale texts written in Russia in 1902 or even 1917, and apply them in an unmediated way in 2007. Even less credible is the idea of taking the form of revolutionary organisation and politics appropriate for Minneapolis in 1937 [1] and simply attempting to extrapolate it in a situation where revolutionary politics has been transformed by central new issues (of gender and the environment in particular); where the working class itself has been transformed in terms of its cultural level, geographical dis
    tribution and political and trade union organisation; and where the experience of mass social movements and the balance sheet of Stalinism (and social democracy) has radically reaffirmed the centrality of self-organisation and democracy at the heart of the revolutionary project.

    As we shall discuss in more details below, it is now obvious that the models of political organisation and habits of engagement with the rest of the left, adopted by some self-proclaimed Trotskyist organisations (like Gerry Healy’s SLL-WRP) were strongly pressurised by third period Stalinism and organisational methods and assumptions inherited from the Stalinised Comintern. No section of British Trotskyism was entirely unaffected by this pressure.

    Against this background the split in Respect might not seem too unusual. But there is something special about it, considered on an international level. While there were no principled questions of politics involved (as there were in Italy and Brazil), nevertheless the main revolutionary organisation involved, the SWP, managed to alienate almost the totality of others forces within the movement. This is a spectacularly unfavourable result for a revolutionary organisation and one that cannot be explained by the myth of an anti-socialist “witch-hunt”. Something much more fundamental in politics is involved.

    Revolutionary Socialism and ‘broad left parties’

    As noted above, the experience of building broad left parties internationally has been decidedly mixed; in some cases they have slid to the right and ended up supporting neoliberal governments. For some on the revolutionary left, what we might call the ‘clean hands and spotless banner’ tendency, this shows that attempts at political recomposition are a waste of time. Far better to just build your organisation, sell your paper, hold your meetings, criticise everyone else and maintain your own spotless banner. But underlying this simplistic approach is actually a deeply spontaneist conception of the revolutionary process. This generally takes the form of the idea that “under the pressure of events”, and after the revolutionary party has been “built”, the revolutionary party will finally links up with big sections of the working class. With this comforting idea under our belts we can be happy to be a very small (but well organised) minority and be sanguine about the strength of the right and indeed the far right.

    In our view this simplistic “build the party” option is no longer operable; indeed it is irresponsible because it inevitably leaves the national political arena the exclusive terrain of the right. In the era of neoliberalism, without a mass base for revolutionary politics but with a huge base for militant opposition to the right, it seems to us self-evident the left has to get together, to organise its forces, to win new forces away from the social-liberal centre left, to contest elections and to raise the voice of an alternative in national politics. This is what has been so important about Die Linke, the Left Bloc, the Danish Red-Green Alliance and many others.

    This was the importance of the Workers Party in Brazil and the Communist Refoundation in Italy at their height: that they articulated a significant national voice against neoliberalism that would have been impossible for the small forces of the revolutionary left.

    More than that: the very existence of these forces, at various stages, had an important impact on mass mobilisations and struggles – as for example Communist Refoundation did on mobilising the anti-war movement and the struggle against pension reform in Italy. The existence of a mass political alternative raises people’s horizons, remoralises them, brings socialism back onto political agendas, erects an obstacle to the domination of political discourses by different brands of neoliberalism and promotes the struggle. It also acts as a clearing house of political ideas in which the revolutionaries put their positions.

    So with a broad left formation in existence everyone is a winner – not! No broad

    left formation has been problem free. For revolutionaries these are usually coalitions with forces to their political right. They are generally centres of permanent political debate and disagreement, and they pose major questions of political functioning for revolutionary forces, especially those used to a strong propaganda routine. They inevitably involve compromises and difficult judgements about where to draw political divides.

    What an orientation towards political regroupment of the left does not involve is a fetishisation of a particular political structure, or the idea that broad left parties are the new form of revolutionary party, or the notion that these parties will necessarily last for decades. For us they are interim and transitional forms of organisation (but see the qualification of this below). Our goal remains that of building revolutionary parties. It’s just that, as against the ‘clean hands and spotless banner’ tendency, we have a major disagreement about what revolutionary parties, in the 21st century, will look like – and how to build them.

    The functioning of revolutionaries in broad left parties

    Broad left parties (or alliances) are not united fronts around specific questions, but political blocs. For them to develop and keep their unity, they have to function according to basic democratic rules. However this cannot be reduced to the simplistic notion that there are votes and the majority rules. This leaves out of account the anomalies and anti-democratic practices which the existence of organised revolutionary currents can give rise to if they operate in a factional way. On this we would advance the following general guidelines:

  • Inside broad left formations there has to be a real, autonomous political life in which people who are not members of an organised current can have confidence that decisions are not being made behind their backs in a disciplined caucus that will impose its views – they have to be confident that their political contribution can affect political debates.

  • This means that no revolutionary current can have the ‘disciplined Phalanx’ concept of operation. Except in the case of the degeneration of a broad left current (as in Brazil) we are not doing entry work or fighting a bureaucratic leadership. This means in most debates, most of the time, members of political currents should have the right to express their own viewpoint irrespective of the majority view in their own current. If this doesn’t happen the real balance of opinion is obscured and democracy negated. Evidently this shouldn’t be the case on decisive questions of the interest of the working class and oppressed – like sending troops to Afghanistan. But if there are differences on issues like that, then membership of a revolutionary current is put in question.

  • Revolutionary tendencies should avoid like the plague attempts to use their organisational weight to impose decisions against everyone else. That’s a disastrous mode of operation in which democracy is a fake. If a revolutionary tendency can’t win its opinions in open and democratic debate, unless it involves fundamental questions of the interest of the working class and oppressed, compromises and concessions have to be made. Democracy is a
    fake if a revolutionary current says ‘debate is OK, and we’ll pack meetings to ensure we win it’.

  • Revolutionaries – individuals and currents – have to demonstrate their commitment and loyalty to the broad left formation of which they are a part. That means prioritising the activities and press of the broad formation itself. Half in, half out, doesn’t work.

  • We should put no a priori limits on the evolution of a broad left formation. Its evolution will be determined by how it responds to the major questions in the fight against imperialism and neoliberal capitalism, not by putting a 1930s label on it (like ‘centrism’).

  • The example of the PSoL in Brazil shows it is perfectly possible to function as a broad socialist party with several organised militant socialist currents within it. The precondition of giving organised currents the right to operate within a broad party is that they do not circumvent the rights of the members who are not members of organised currents.

    The SWP’s ‘democratic centralism’ – national and international

    Readers will note that the above series of considerations is exactly how the SWP did not function in Respect. It is a commonplace that those who function in factional and bureaucratic ways in the broader movement generally operate tin pot regimes at home. There are strong reasons for thinking that the version of ‘democratic centralism’ operated by the SWP is undemocratic. This is not just a matter of rules and the constitution, but there are problems there as well.

  • Decision-making in the SWP is concentrated in an extremely small group of people. The SWP Central Committee is just 12 people, a very small number given the size of the organisation. Effective decision making is concentrated in three or four people within that.

  • Political minorities are denied access to the CC. At the January 2006 conference of the SWP long-time SWP member John Molyneaux put forward a position criticising the line of the leadership, but his candidacy for the CC was rejected because it would “add nothing” to CC discussions.

  • Tendencies and factions can only exist during pre-conference periods. This effectively makes them extremely difficult to organise. In any case, political debates and issues are not confined the SWP leadership’s internal timetable.

  • There is no real internal bulletin and little internal political discussion outside of pre-conference period. Real discussion is concentrated at the top.

  • As the expulsions of Nick Wrack, Rob Hoveman and Kevin Ovenden show, the disciplinary procedure is arbitrary and can be effected by the CC with no due process or hearing in which the accused can put their case.

    In his contribution to the SWP’s pre-conference bulletin John Molyneaux said:

    “…the nature of the problem can most clearly be seen if we look at the outcome of all these meetings, councils, conferences, elections, etc. The fact is that in the last 15 years perhaps longer) there has not been a single substantial issue on which the CC has been defeated at a conference or party council or NC. Indeed I don’t think that in this period there has ever been even a serious challenge or a close vote. On the contrary, the overwhelming majority of conference or council sessions have ended with the virtually unanimous endorsement of whatever is proposed by the leadership. Similarly, in this period there has never been a contested election for the CC: ie, not one comrade has ever been proposed or proposed themselves for the CC other than those nominated by the CC themselves. It is worth emphasising that such a state of affairs is a long way from the norm in the history of the socialist movement. It was not the norm in the Bolshevik Party or the Communist International. before its Stalinisation. It was not the norm at any point in the Trotskyist tradition under Trotsky.”

    John Molyneaux put all this down to the nature of the period and the low level of the class struggle in the 1980s and 1990s. It is from obvious that this is true. Its root cause is the conception of ‘democratic’ centralism that the SWP have.

    We could note at this point that this point that the SWP’s internal regime is the polar opposite of that of a similarly sized, but much more influential, organisation, the LCR in France, where the organisation of minorities and their incorporation in the leadership is normal. In fact the SWP’s supporters in France have gone into the LCR and form a…permanent faction, Socialism Par en Bas (SPEB) that would of course be banned inside the SWP itself!

    Equally the functioning of the international tendency that the SWP dominates – the IST – is dominated by a notion of ‘international democratic centralism’ in which the SWP takes upon itself the right to boss other ‘sections’ around, down to the smallest, detailed tactic. This, unsurprisingly, results in splits with any organisation that develops an autonomous leadership with a minimum of self-respect. So for example the SWP split on no principled basis at all with its Greek and US sections in 2003 – expulsions that were carried out by the Central Committee of the SWP, and only confirmed as an afterthought by a hastily-summoned meeting of the IST.

    There is an irony in all this. Up until the late 1960s the International Socialists – precursor organisation of the SWP – maintained a sharp critique of ‘orthodox Trotskyism’, not least in regard to its organisational methods. IS members tended to see Leninism as being, at least in part, ‘responsible’ for Stalinism, and instead counterposed ‘Luxemburgism’ against ‘toy Bolshevism’. After the May-June events in France, Tony Cliff adopted Leninism and wrote a three-volume biography of Lenin to justify this. The irony consists in the fact that the version of Leninism that Cliff adopted became, over time, clearly marked by the bowdlerised version of Leninism that the IS originally rejected.

    Opposed conceptions of the left

    There is a false conception of the configuration of the workers movement and the left, a misreading of ideas from the 1930s, that is common in some sections of the Trotskyist movement. This ‘map’ sees basically the working class and its trade unions, the reformists (Stalinists), various forms of ‘centrism’ (tendencies which vacillate between reform and revolution) and the revolutionary marxists – with maybe the anarchists as a complicating factor. On the basis of this kind of map, Trotsky could say in 1938 “There is no revolutionary tendency worthy of the name on the face of the earth outside the Fourth International (ie the revolutionary marxists – ed)”.

    If this idea was ever operable, it is certainly not today. The forms of the emergence of mass anti-capitalism and rejection of Stalinism and social democracy has thrown up a cacophony of social movements and social justice organisations, as well as a huge array of militant left political forces internationally. This poses new and complex tasks of organising and cohering the anti-capitalist left. And
    this cannot be done by building a small international current that regards itself as the unique depository of Marxist truth and regards itself as capable of giving the correct answer on every question, in every part of the planet (in one of its most caricatured forms, by publishing a paper that looks suspiciously like Socialist Worker and aping every tactical turn of the British SWP).

    The self definition of the Fourth International and Socialist resistance is very different to that. We have our own ideas and political traditions, some of which we see as essential. But we want to help refound the left, together with others, incorporating the decisive lessons of feminism and environmentalism, in a dialogue with other anti-capitalists and militant leftists. One that doesn’t start by assuming that we are correct about everything, all-knowing and have nothing to learn, especially from crucial new revolutionary experiences like the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela.

    Today the ‘thin red line of Bolshevism’ conception of revolutionary politics doesn’t work. This idea often prioritises formal programmatic agreement, sometimes on arcane or secondary questions, above the realities of organisation and class struggle on the ground. And it systematically leads to artificially counterposing yourself to every other force on the left.

    Against this template, the SWP is Neanderthal, a particular variant of the dogmatic-sectarian propagandist tradition that has been so dominant in Britain since the early 20th century. It is time that its members demanded a rethink.

    Postscript: ‘Leninism’

    In his interview on Leninism in International Viewpoint, Daniel Bensaid points out that the word itself emerged only after the death of Lenin, as part of a campaign to brutally ‘Bolshevise’ the parties of the Comintern – ie subordinate them to the Soviet leadership.

    For us the name, the word, is unimportant. What is important is to incorporate what is relevant today in the thinking of great socialist thinkers like Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg and Gramsci. Lenin was far from being a dogmatist on organisational forms; from him we retain major aspects of his theoretical conquests on imperialism and national self-determination, the self-organisation of the working class, the notions of revolutionary crisis and strategy, and his critique of the bureaucracy in the workers movement and social democratic reformism.

    All these great thinkers were prepared to change their forms of organisation to suit the circumstances; the unity of revolutionary tendencies is not guaranteed by organisational forms, but by programme and a shred vision of the revolutionary process. Thus we reject the idea that by our ideas about left regroupment we are ‘abandoning Leninism’, any more than we are abandoning Trotskyism or what is relevant in the ideas of Rosa Luxemburg. What we are abandoning, indeed have long abandoned, is the template method that sees Leninism as a distinct set of unvarying organisational forms.

    We repeat: some of these organisational forms, including a monopoly of decision-making by a tiny central group with special privileges (often of secret information and un-minted discussion) – came from a beleaguered Trotskyist movement, that inherited many of its organisational forms wholesale from the Stalinised Communist International.

    You can’t understand the Healy movement without the Communist Party of Great Britain or the French ‘Lambertists’ without the immense pressure of the French Communist Party.

    The brutal ‘Leninism’ of the Communist Parties and the importation of aspects of its practices into the dogmatic-sectarian Trotskyist organisations we do indeed repudiate.

    1 November 2007

    [1] This is a reference to the American Socialist Workers Party, which played a central role in the Teamster Rebellion in Minneapolis in 1937-8. The US SWP led by James P. Cannon had a massive impact on British Trotskyism, not least through Cannon’s organisational textbooks The Struggle for a Proletarian Party and History of American Trotskyism.

92 responses to “Phalanxes are bad”

  1. Good contribution to discussion Liam. Here where the DSP is about to complete/reboot its merger into the Socialist Alliance the issues are very in your face practical. A review of that is here.. This though comes after 3-4 years of wanting to proceed but not proceeding due to endogenous factors and the state of the movement.

    Like the LCR merging into the NPA there is no plan to operate day to day as a tendency within the Alliance and in this latest merging stage the DSP has been trying to operate in that mode (or non mode?)for a couple of months now, and its branches are only meeting for Pre-conference Discussion.

    I think the main factor about this worth noting is that the DSP has proceeded along this route at its own pace and while the recent events in France were a catalyst to discussion, it is hard to imagine merging being engineered previously over the past 3-4 years — during an internal faction fight.. The DSP’s problem ,aside from political considerations, as I’m sure was refracted in a shallow way in the SWP, is that it is darn
    near impossible to build two parties well.

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  2. Some of this is interesting and worthy of consideration. Too much of it reads like a critique of the SWP and a “they say black we say white” type of analysis. Now, of course you disagree with the SWP’s attitude to broad parties – and that’s fair enough and a point worthy of inclusion given the history of things, the SWP’s size, etc. But it would also be more useful if you had an accurate account of the approach, on the one hand, and an accurate analysis of how things work and the history about which you are speaking. For instance you argue:
    “Equally the functioning of the international tendency that the SWP dominates – the IST – is dominated by a notion of ‘international democratic centralism’ in which the SWP takes upon itself the right to boss other ‘sections’ around, down to the smallest, detailed tactic. This, unsurprisingly, results in splits with any organisation that develops an autonomous leadership with a minimum of self-respect. So for example the SWP split on no principled basis at all with its Greek and US sections in 2003 – expulsions that were carried out by the Central Committee of the SWP, and only confirmed as an afterthought by a hastily-summoned meeting of the IST.”

    This is just not true. As someone who has been in the IST for, oh, twenty years and was on the “CC” of an organization, I speak from pretty intimate experience. The SWP leadership makes arguments – sometimes right, sometimes wrong, sometimes well put, sometimes not. Nobody was ever told “organize a demo this way or your out” or anything like that. Ever. That’s an utterly bizarre claim – especially given the four different approaches to broad left parties within the IST at present – the UK, Germany, Greece and France. Actually five if you include the specificities of our experience in Canada where there is a broad left party in French-speaking Quebec, of which we are members, but not in the rest of Canada .
    What’s more, the events of 2001 (not 2003) didn’t involve the expulsion of the Greeks (a faction split – not expelled – from the IST group). And the decision to exclude the Americans wasn’t confirmed as an afterthought by a ‘hastily summoned” meeting but at the regularly scheduled international meeting at Marxism 2001 where a detailed argument happened and a vote was taken.
    I won’t bother to go into the details of the debates from all those years ago. They’re irrelevant here. But will only say you’d be better off to stick to making your (useful) arguments and not wasting your time trying to have a poke at others when you can’t get some basic facts straight.

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  3. The IST may be what you say it is but there are exceptions which suggest that affiliates if they stand their ground can indeed step away from the one size fits all approach of universal tactics concocted in London: the New Zealand Socialist Worker Group and the ISO Zimbabwe.However, the international purges of the 1990s do indicate that the centralized approach does indeed rule the IST regardless of what redbedhead says.

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  4. Phalanxes are good, as the Macedonians under Alexander found out as they travelled from Greece to Afghanistan.

    This is proposing a blancmange tactic.
    I doubt if they’d have made it beyond the Hellespont using that approach.

    A “mass party”, which isn’t massive and has nothing tangible at its centre.
    Looking at the PSUV in Venezuela might provide a better model.
    It’s genuinely MASS (8 million members), but allows factions and internal debate.
    Within that framework, what’s required is a disciplined Marxist organisation that argues a line.
    Otherwise the whole thing can get derailed and led to disaster by the wrong politics.

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  5. sorry I ought to have posted this here:

    Some of these questions are in fact being re-thought inside the SWP. John Molyneaux recently had this published inside International Socialism:

    http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=586&issue=124

    A piece which would probably have taken the form of an internal bulletin rather then a public document in the proceeding period. There was also a piece on Die Linke which is critical of a number of formulations familiar to those of us in the SWP:

    http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=578&issue=124

    One proviso I would make about the argument about Respect. It just does seem to me that some of these difficulties were sharply accentuated by the failure to attract broader forces which led to an artificial situation where the self discipline of revolutionary forces and there particular method of participation within the wider organisation became much more central then it would otherwise have been in broader formations. This seems to be a more general experiance of re-groupment that is perhaps not touched on sufficiantly in the kinds of neccessary re-assessments going on.

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  6. “purges”? What purges? The left are such drama. And rumour mongers. sheesh.

    In any case, with regards to the substance of the discussion. It seems to be a mistake to lay down a recipe for revolutionary involvement in broad formations – as prianikoff points out above. There is a difference between Respect and the PSUV.
    But also, what the article effectively argues is that the SWP should have dissolved into Respect. But that wouldn’t have solved the problem that a majority of members would have been trained in a particular revolutionary tradition. It would have been dishonest and substitutionalist. The same problem would have remained – and it could only be solved by a breakthrough.

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  7. It is too easy to to blame the SWP for what happened in RESPECT. Interesting to note Johng’s post on that.

    Phil has held his rather liberal view of political organisation for some time and what it would represent in practice is the left concedes, even before any debate , that smaller , “non-aligned” and forces to the right should dominate, even if they are numerically smaller. So the left hands over political leadership from the start and rightist elements end up winning with almost no struggle.

    RESPECT might have worked as a left electoral platform rather than as a party-type formatiion which ended by essentially demanding that the SWP dissolved itself into a “broad” party – which was rightly fought off by the vast majority fo the SWP.

    That still leaves us with the problem recognised by all on the sane left of how to put forward an electoral alternative at the next election: the crisis in representation still remains.

    The real test for the left now is not the degree to which we can self-censor but a much bigger problem of whether we can agree an electoral platform among ourselves which in the current crisis would give us the ear of significant forces to the right.

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  8. “RESPECT might have worked as a left electoral platform rather than as a party-type formatiion which ended by essentially demanding that the SWP dissolved itself into a “broad” party – which was rightly fought off by the vast majority fo the SWP.”

    Do you actually believe this nonsense. Respect did work as a left electoral platform – and it still does.

    No one demanded the SWP dissolve itself – except perhaps a number of SWP members. So there was nothing to fight off – except a spurious witchunt.

    Please, if you want to begin to find an answer to “the problem recognised by all on the sane left of how to put forward an electoral alternative at the next election” you would be best to look honestly at how the SWP – in defence of a man who is today derided by many of its leading members – decided to give up its role in an electoral alternative which not only had had electoral success but could have had even more – with their members as part of it.

    Even today there is a simple solution to the problem of an electoral alternative – the door is open for SWP members to stand for Respect. All they have to do it join and get nominated by their local branch.

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  9. Question for TLC: Is RESPECT prepared to stand as part of a left platform? Yes or no ?

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  10. It amazes me that some people in the SWP, notably Alex Callinicos, argue that what they characterized as the pull of electoralism and reformism would have been less if there had been more Labour left elected representatives or trade union figures joining it. If you think Bob Crow or Jeremy Corbyn or Nick Wright would have strengthened John Rees’s hand against George Galloway and Salma Yaqoob (which was the concern back in September 2007) I think you misconstrue their politics and relationship to the SWP leadership.

    It would have stabilized Respect, but through diminished weight for the Rees apparatus, not by strengthening the SWP. The tensions now breaking in the SWP would have been more acute and earlier.

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  11. splinteredsunrise Avatar
    splinteredsunrise

    It strikes me that Alexander’s formulations about the danger of “reformism”, particularly in terms of the NPA, are getting rather close to the idea of fluoride in the water sapping our precious bodily fluids. This would seem to call into question the whole idea of the united front. What’s more, as Cannon pointed out 70-odd years ago, there’s no organisational formula that can stop members of a revolutionary current being pulled by reformism. For instance, a hardened revolutionary group might develop a strategy in PCS based around Jane Loftus being able to do whatever she feels like.

    I liked John Molyneux’s piece, though not without reservations, and Christopher has been saying some interesting things also. We shall see, I suppose.

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  12. I think the whole problem resolves around questions of organisational discipline.
    Basically IMO this should never be used to resolve political questions. In general there should be very little formal discipline in a revolutionary socialist organisation.
    Comrades should be politically convinced members of a principled organisation. If these people cannot be convinced by argument, they should not be instructed to carry out things they disagree with.
    The hierarchical structure which exists across the left, is a legacy of the degeneration of the Comintern, while Lenin was still in charge.
    Trotsky attacked the syllogism – Lenin created the apparatus – the apparatus created Stalin – therefore Lenin created Stalin, and Trotsky was right, there is a sea of blood between Lenin and Stalin, but there is not an absolute separation between the methods of organisation implemented by the Bolsheviks after 1918 and the creation of Stalinism.
    The reverse syllogism Lenin was a democrat – Stalin was an autocrat – therefore Lenin was not Stalin is also false.
    By failing to address that legacy, the Left has inherited much of that bad organisational structure. What are a few of these common features;

    The selection/approval of officials from the centre.
    The dominance of full timers.
    The use of discipline to win arguments.
    The expulsion or disciplining of members for petty reasons
    The raising of the internal life of the organisation over the class.
    The demand that its members lie about where they disagree with the organisation.
    The refusal to carry out debates in public.
    The refusal to disagree in public.
    etc.etc.etc.
    All these are degenerate organisational practices. Once these are purged, then the rationale for many of the measures that Phil Hearse outlines above also disappear.
    So instead of running around the question this is what we need to look at. Funnily enough Molyneux’s article does do that to an extent – but its purpose is paradoxical – by admitting the debate the leadership what to avoid the re-evaluation that Molyneux’s article really demands.
    Its content is in revolt against its form.

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  13. Well I think the key problem was the lack of real forces to discipline all those involved. George Galloway said something similar in his article on “car crash on the left” and I agreed with him then (and said so) and I agree with him now. This was also true of other problems concerning the unaccountability of the actions of all involved. So when it came to the BB appearence for instance, my feeling is that this was the product of George recognising that the optimism many of us had felt was not being borne out by reality. On the SWP side the reaction to this occassionally slid into ultimatism and control freakery. George looked for other kinds of short-cuts which were ultimately pretty damaging as well. My own view is that this flowed out of the larger problem which no-one seems to want to confront. Which is that in this country the numbers of real forces attracted to a left of Labour alternative were far smaller then we had hoped. Debating the precise internal arrangements of one of its components does not answer the question of why this was. On the other hand we are at present, publicly and openly, having a debate about these things with respect to our own organisation.

    In terms of unity on the left I’m for federal arrangements at this stage and I’m against telling any organisation that they have to dissolve themselves and join as individuals. This is not pluralism. Its the opposite of pluralism.

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  14. You want a simple Yes or No answer to a hypothetical question. There is no ‘left platform’ and nor will there be one that unites the whole of the left in the next six months. Under electoral law you need to stand as a registered Party so unless you want to ditch existing organisations and create a new one then it isn’t going to happen.

    Respect have already taken the decision to stand as Respect. Why? because as anyone with an once of knowledge about electoral politics knows it takes a long time to build up name recognition in elections game. You can still go around part of Sparkbrook or Bethnal Green and find people who don’t recognise the Respect name. And that is with having an MP and councillors.

    Respect have a chance to win up to three seats – and that will be an incredible feat if achieved. Maintaining one MP will be a huge success but it will only happen under the Respect name. A victory for Respect will benefit the whole left so why on earth would we want to jeapodise that with talk of some new organisation this side of the election.

    The idea that a new body can be created that will have any kind of name recognition by splicing together the existing left over the next few months is laughable. Time to get real.

    Now if the SWP wants to stand some people at the next election their best chance of getting a decent vote will be to stand under the name that they stood under at the least general election.

    It’s called Respect. The door is open and it’s easier to walk through it than to create a new left platform.

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  15. And johng – “I’m against telling any organisation that they have to dissolve themselves and join as individuals.”

    Which is why the Respect constitution allows individuals to join while maintaining their own other organisation. Seems like a good solution to me.

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  16. Interesting.

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  17. The only time that there is a need fo enforce some sort of democratic centralism is when there is an issue that involve crossing class lines, for example scabiing on a strike or supporting a war. This has not arisen in Respect nor any of its precedecssors and this is what makes the monolithic approach so favoured by the Anglophone left such an obstacle.

    It is worth talking to members of the Left Bloc about what happens there. The three principal currrents open all there meetings to every member and they prefer a model of hegemony rather than dominating by numbers or bureacracy.

    In addition they also had an incredible insight. If you want to build a party it takes years and you have to commit fully to it. Proper little Einsteins they are.

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  18. 21stcenturymanifesto Avatar
    21stcenturymanifesto

    On ‘Leninism’ Phil Hearse refers to Daniel Bensaid’s claim that the word itself emerged only after the death of Lenin, as part of a campaign to “brutally ‘Bolshevise’ the parties of the Comintern – ie subordinate them to the Soviet leadership.”

    This line of argument ties in with rightwing social democratic and bourgeois accounts of the Communist Party’s history (that communist political methods were imposed from the outside) and ignores the internal dynamics of the British communist movement in the first decades after the Russian revolution in which the younger generation around Pollitt and Dutt grew increasingly impatient with the small-group ‘propagandist’ mentality of many of the older leaders coming from the parties and groups that preceded the formation of the Communist Party.

    ‘Bolshevisation’ of the British party was born in British conditions and given a spur by the experiences of the General Strike and the betrayals of social democracy. Of course the experiences of other parties (and the example of the Soviet Union) had an influence but the primary emphasis on a centralised party apparatus, on collective leadership and on discipline grew naturally out of the needs of the hour.

    What struck me about that whole generation of militants in the party –especially the ones who came into politics through the unemployed movement, the battle to create the Daily Worker, the antifascist movement and the Spanish war and the movement against imperialist war – was their firm grasp of Marxism and their self reliance. Where they disagreed with the leadership they said so and had their way.

    Examples are the way in which the, largely proletarian, central committee overturned the political committee on the characterization of the first stages of the second world war; and the post-war congress defeat for the leadership over a formulation that suggested that colonial freedom would come about under leadership from the metropolitan centre. Both instances speak to a commendably ‘bolshy’ attitude and a clear grasp of global realities and were a shock to some of the leadership.

    Phil’s argument then seems to suggest that the more unsavoury practices of Trotskyism (particularly the Healeyite version from which most British Trotskyists can trace some lines of descent) is really all the fault of the wicked Stalinists. This again is a version of the claim that ‘a big boy did it and ran away’. People really must get used to taking responsibility.

    Incidentally, when Nas speculates on what effect various people including me might have had on the disputes in Respect he touches on the problem of political and idealogical unity in a political formation that is more of an electoral front than a political party. My guess is that the broader the range of forces engaged in Respect the better the chance of greater stability. In particular, I think the participation of the Communist Party would have helped prevent the emergence of such divisions and would have been a factor in deepening the roots of the alliance in the working class movement.

    It is well know that at every level the Communist Party was more or less evenly divided on the question of participation in what eventually became Respect with the top leadership more in favour and the congress eventually slightly against. There were assurances from the usual gossip-mongers that the party would split.
    This did not happen. No one resigned over the issue. The minority accepted the decision. The majority felt no need to purge the minority. Membership continued to grow. Various initiatives were taken – Charter for Women, People’s Charter, Communist University etc – that achieved various degrees of success. No crisis, no splits, no purges.

    Events have not yet resolved these underlying issues but perhaps the trotskyists might consider why it is that these ‘unrecontructed stalinists’ remain politically and organisationally united.

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  19. “The only time that there is a need fo enforce some sort of democratic centralism is when there is an issue that involve crossing class lines, for example scabiing on a strike or supporting a war”

    I’m not entirely sure about this. There is a version of democratic centralism which seems to consist of a bunch of geniuses coming out with bright ideas and using the membership of an organisation as a stage army to carry them out, any questioning of whatever “line” is involved being treated as in some sense a breach of it. This has similarities with the attitudes of mainstream politicians from left to right and I don’t really regard this as democratic centralism.

    There is another version which thinks there needs to be debate and discussion to arrive at policy but which believes that once decisions are made they should be carried out. Gramsci argues somewhere that democracy and discipline ought not to be counter-posed but that the one is neccessary for the other. I’m not happy with the idea that democracy only counts when it involves issues of scabbing or the like.

    In respect to left formations I think the real issue is whether different tendencies with their own internal structures can work togeather. I’m fully aware of the difficulties with this, and as should be clear from the above, entirely willing to accept critical discussion of the behaviour of, for instance, the SWP, in the recent past.

    But, at bottom, my own perspective is that where a particular tendency loses an argument, they should be prepared to accept a democratic verdict but should nonetheles have the right to act as a minority, through whatever internal structures they like. I just don’t think the whole Russian Doll argument is on if you are serious about unity. With the best will in the world I don’t think its possible to impose liquidation on organisations from the outside.

    And I genuinely think this is a problem in terms of the kinds of arguments being put foward by Liam’s comrades and others, although I’m more then happy to debate them, and indeed concede mistakes that have been made.

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  20. “The only time that there is a need fo enforce some sort of democratic centralism is when there is an issue that involve crossing class lines, for example scabiing on a strike or supporting a war”

    I will just add to johng’s points that this attempt to solve a political problem with an organizational mechanism doesn’t get to the bottom of what was wrong: the SWP was a significant majority in Respect. What was needed was for the SWP to become a minority because of the influx of workers breaking from Labour and finding a home in Respect (not by recruiting specific union leaders as Nas suggests above). Rather than solving this real world problem, what Liam and Phil are arguing is not, in fact, against democratic centralism but rather for a reformist democratic centralism – ie. that revolutionaries vote for reformist policies. Nobody had a problem when the SWP were voting en bloc against “revolutionary” policies put forward by the ultra left in Respect, for instance (except the ultra left, of course). In fact, if the SWP hadn’t practiced democratic centralism during this phase, chances are a split would have come much sooner as people voted with their hearts for revolutionary policies. But this method of trying to keep Respect open politically was not and could not be and end in itself and it certainly could not last forever. It’s purpose was to make it an attractive home for an expected influx of former Labour supporters that never materialized. When that failed to happen, the consensus broke down.
    Nor is it sufficient to point to the Left Bloc or the NPA or Die Linke of PSOL or… and say that the SWP should have done like they did there. Those situations were all very different from each other and from the situation in Britain.

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  21. splinteredsunrise Avatar
    splinteredsunrise

    I’d actually agree with the foregoing. The SWP leadership understood at some level that if you’re going to build a broad party – or even a united front worth the name – then the revolutionaries have to minoritise themselves. That was the whole point of the SA and Respect exercises.

    There were serious objective issues involved then. The collapse of the Labour left having been more or less a generational collapse, the influx from that quarter did not appear. If four or five MPs had broken from Labour instead of just Galloway, that would have changed the dynamic. If the CP had joined, that too would have changed the dynamic. Some significant input from the trade union left or the Socialist Party would have changed the dynamic.

    So you have the objective, and also the subjective. In the earlier stages of Respect, comrades who weren’t particularly friendly to the SWP remarked that John Rees was bending over backwards to be reasonable. Of course, the bad old habits would re-emerge, and you have to take the failure to make progress as a cause of that as well as the bad old habits being a block on progress.

    Thirty years ago, the SWP and IMG ran election candidates, but got discouraged when they didn’t make an immediate breakthrough. Had each group picked a few target areas and worked on them in the long term, the far left would probably have some solid local bases by now. That would be something to build on. Unfortunately, we are where we are. The left is fucked, and the beginning of wisdom is to realise that the left is fucked.

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  22. tlc, you assume wrongly that I am a member of the SWP.

    You also attribute the problems in RESPECT to the behaviour of the SWP but in your invitation to them to join or to stand in the upcoming Election as individuals you show exactly the nature of the problem: that others on the Left are every bit as capable of putting their own interests before the interests of the Left as a whole.

    Even in the unlikely event that RESPECT won 3 seats, the problems would remain. How would RESPECT link up with other forces to build a socialist alternative to New Labour? What would the political basis of that be? Something more than the “George Galloway Show”? Something more than a reheated Old Labour stance atop an anti war vote?

    Saying “RESPECT is the platform and there is no alternative” doesn’t sweeten my tea.

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  23. Wise words from the sunrise. The sooner we realise the left is fucked and begin to think through why the better. We’re approaching the fag end of a social liberal government, which has never been particularly popular – and at times has seen the mobilisation of millions in opposition to its policies – and the left is lagging behind the BNP when it comes to building an alternative base of support.

    And we are still discussing whether we need a new left platform, a new workers party or a new whatever. The real question is not whether it needs to be new but whwther its capable of being effective.

    Personally, I’d hope ‘the left’ stop trying to be some kind on ‘national’ alternative’ and try over the next few months to become relevent in just a few areas. Everyone in each area should back the best placed left candidate standing in the election, focus that candidacy into supporting the postal workers, campaigning for more council housing, free school meals, free public transport, against climate change or whatever and forget that that best placed left candidate may not be in your own organisation.

    And at the end of the next six months we may just be a litle less fucked than we are now.

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  24. Padraic, I’ve no idea what organisation, if any, you are a member of – I use the SWP as an a example solely because they used to be part of Respect and are welcome to join again.

    Personally, I don’t care if the SWP stand under a new name. They aren’t listening to me anyway. I just point out the fact that if they stood as Respect – in the places where they stood as Respect the last time round they are more likely to get a better result than standing under some as yet undecided and unknown name.

    It is my understanding that electoral politics needs name recognition. We are in the game of getting thousands of votes not simply selling a few tens of extra papers – so mass recognition is important.

    For your comments it is clear that you seem to think that some form of social democratic alternative – which you dismiss as an ‘old labour stance atop an anti-war vote’ is not good enough.

    But from my view of Britain it is something that needs to be rebuilt. Basic concepts of solidarity, social ownership, etc are idea that need to be rebuilt and popularised. It’s not as if Briatin is overflowing with revolutionary marxists straining at the bit for revolution.

    Perhaps it’s tiome we started from where we are and not where we wold like to be.

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  25. Splintered – The SWP gave up standing candidates in 1978 because they were discouraged by the poor results particularly being significantly beaten by the IMG backed candidate at a time when the SWP was 5 to 10 times bigger.

    The IMG backed candidates throughout the 1974 to 1979 period, standing in both the Feb 1974 elections, by-elections, and the 1979 general election and first European Election that followed. They did not stand under a ‘far left’ flag after 1979 not because of giving up elections but because of a change of orientation towards entry into the Labour Party. One IMG supporter actually stood as a Labour (council) candidate in the 1979 general election at the same time that the IMG were supporting Socialist Unity, narrowly failing to get elected. One later member was in a small splinter group and was elected in 1980 as Labour. IMG supporters continued to stand as Labour council candidates after the group formally dissolved its public face and a number were elected in the 1980s and played an important role in the fightback in the Labour Party. It is no accident that the multicultural areas of Birmingham and East London where the IMG-backed candidates had most success in the 1970s were also successful areas for Respect in recent years. The IMG and its successors were heavily involved in election campaigns well into the mid 1990s by which time the Labour Party had become a very difficult terrain. The successors of the IMG strongly backed the Scottish Socialist Alliance and the London Socialist Alliance standing in elections well before the SWP returned to electoral activity in 1999.

    As you well know, the supporters of the FI in Belfast were the first to take on an electoral strategy around the H Blocks campaign in the early 1980s.

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  26. “And at the end of the next six months we may just be a litle less fucked than we are now”

    I think a worthy and realistic goal for us all. Lets call a special conference “a little less fucked” and see if we can’t achieve it.

    🙂

    (seriously actually I think thats an extremely sensible perspective for anyone on the left to have at the moment).

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  27. must stop saying actually.

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  28. Further on the “little less fucked” perspective. I think there is always a problem when a period when the left as a whole seemed to be moving foward suddenly gives way to a period when the left is on the defensive to make the neccessary adjustments. This struck me forcefully over the last couple of days when I had friends from India due to come over here in the next month or so suddenly writing to me with forboding about the idea of coming to Britain due to the political climate (it was, a short time ago, the other way about). Suddenly being the international basket case after a period in which (problems of hubris aside) it was possible to think that we were moving foward is a pretty hard thing. But its not an entirely novel situation for the left. On the bending over backwards for unity thing…this was in fact a genuine phenomenan for many on the left and not just in the SWP. When Respect was envisaged as a larger project most of us spent a large part of our time making general arguments for unity, attempting to undercut sectarian and other arguments against unity, particularly in the trade union movement etc. As the ground shifted under our feet one was suddenly aware, in the background, of various discordent notes coming from both sides, of those most centrally involved in electoral work concentrated in particular areas. Suddenly all this general effort for unity came to seem a distraction as the angle of vision narrowed to particular areas and particular arguments about how to win in them. In retrospect this was entirely understandable but most involved didn’t seem to understand the objective reasons why this was happening. There was failure on all sides here. And the consequent bewilderment fed into the mounting mutual hostilities. In terms of the re-assertion of bad habits I can remember thinking, and saying, that what seemed to be happening was that every side in the argument seemed to be living up to the worst stereotype of itself, of which some of the more deranged internet chatter was only a sample.

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  29. “The only time that there is a need fo enforce some sort of democratic centralism is when there is an issue that involve crossing class lines, for example scabiing on a strike or supporting a war”

    Basically I agree. If we remove the power of full timers, organisers, leading bodies, call them what you will, to order people about, then the whole hierarchy collapses overnight.
    Instead of organisational means of controlling the “rank and file” then they will have to use political persuasion. They’ll find that they can’t, it takes ages to break bad habits. That’s why the bureaucracies of these groups stick with what they know.
    Its a shame, Martin Smith is a great improvement over his predecessor the thug bully Bamberry, but because of his role as the head of the apparatus, he is in practice identical.

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  30. 21stcenturymanifesto Avatar
    21stcenturymanifesto

    Democratic centralism as properly conceived (billj) is not something that needs to be ‘enforced”, it is not the imposition of higher authority on a reluctant rank and file.

    Of course political authority can be abused and when it is, it is the negation of democratic centralism.

    No party with revolutionary aspirations can meet even its most basic obligations to the working class without the voluntary acceptance of the principle by all members that once a decision has been reached it is binding on all, especially a minority. Otherwise, if a policy fails its original supporters can justifiably claim that it was not fully operated.

    This is not some alien importation into the movement but an expression of the basic trade union principle of collective action.

    But, unless decisions are reached, policies formulated and leaderships elected with the fullest participation of the membership and the widest possible discussion, then the possibility that the decisions and policies will be flawed and leaderships unable to command the confidence of the membership.

    Nick Wright

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  31. In the earlier stages of Respect, comrades who weren’t particularly friendly to the SWP remarked that John Rees was bending over backwards to be reasonable. Of course, the bad old habits would re-emerge, and you have to take the failure to make progress as a cause of that as well as the bad old habits being a block on progress.
    Or perhaps that his habits didn’t change, but Galloway’s m.o. did?
    It’s a little hard not to re-hash the Respect split when the post repeats nonsense about the expulsion of comrades who were working against the party,amongst other things. But I’m sure Liam wouldn’t wish this to degenerate into another slanging match while he’s away.

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  32. 21 St CenturyManifesto wrote:-

    “‘Bolshevisation’ of the British party was born in British conditions and given a spur by the experiences of the General Strike and the betrayals of social democracy.
    … the younger generation around Pollitt and Dutt grew increasingly impatient with the small-group ‘propagandist’ mentality.”

    You’re having a laugh, surely?
    Or maybe just reading the wrong history books?
    “Bolshevisation” was an international policy and began in 1922-3.
    Try reading Harry Wicks memoirs “Keeping My Head- memoirs of a British Bolshevik”.

    Harry was a railway worker, in the leadership of the YCL and a product of the Lenin School in Moscow. I discussed some of this with him personally.

    Harry was categorical that the Bolshevisation policy from 1922-3 reduced the level of discussion in branches in the interests of “organisation-building” and negatively influenced the subsequent development of the CP .

    Whereas his description of Battersea Labour Party in the early 1920’s shows how non-sectarian the left was at the time. He makes it absolutely clear that the divisions between Labour and Communist were almost non existent. In fact, so non-existent that Saklatvala, a communist was the local MP!

    By modern standards this almost reads like a Socialist Nirvana.

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  33. …btw, I forgot to add that it was Harry Pollit who told Harry Wicks that he “was finished” in the YCL after he started speaking in defence of the Left Opposition.

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  34. 21stcenturymanifesto Avatar
    21stcenturymanifesto

    There are rather more authoritative sources than Harry Wicks on the early history of the Battersea Communist and labour movements. Mike Squires’ biography on Saklatvala being the most accesible.

    As active (including chair and secretary of the CP in Battersea and Wandsworth during the 70s and 80s I knew some of the surviving veterans of the earlier periods including in – my block of flats – the woman comrade married to the secretary of the local NUR who famously smacked Jimmy Thomas in the mouth at Battersea Town Hall following the General Strike. The early close involvement of communists in the Battersea Labour Party and Trades Council, which included councillors and the MP led to the disaffilation of the local Labour Party.

    Prianikoff rather makes my point for me. The earlier socialist organisations were notoriously and narrowly ‘propagandist’ and disputaticious. The Bolshevisation process reflected the desire of the younger, more revolutionary minded elements who wanted to move from talk to action.
    The 1922 congress vote to set up a Party Commission composed of people outside the executive committee was carried by 87 votes to 38.

    Harry Wicks didn’t join the YCL until four years later.

    Eventually the party was bigger, battle hardened, more disciplined and firmly implanted in the unemployed movement and the factories and had created a daily newspaper.

    As the man once said “Once the political llne has been determined organisation decides all, including the fate of the political line itself.”

    Nick Wright

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  35. “Democratic centralism as properly conceived (billj) is not something that needs to be ‘enforced”, it is not the imposition of higher authority on a reluctant rank and file.”

    I have to say that is absolutely not my experience. All of these groups who operate “democratic centralism”, elect their leadership. But that’s not surprising, the leadership can hardly fail to get elected.
    The leadership are permanently organised, they are made up of or include and control the full timers, they control the entire organisation and apparatus, they control its press and website, they control when internal publications appear, they control what goes in those internal publications, they dish out sinecures to loyal members, they control who is allowed to enter the apparatus.
    In short – they are in charge.
    Often the rank and file are far from being reluctant about this state of affairs, welcome it. Why wouldn’t they?
    They are told on entering the organisation that this is what is expected of a Leninist/Trotskyist organisation, they are lectured that no party that has aspirations to power can refuse to obey its “elected” leadership. Quotes are summoned from the post revolutionary period of the Bolsheviks organisational degeneration to justify the hierarchy.
    The members know no different. They know no better. And for a while everything’s great. Until they leave and denounce Leninism as a bureaucratic fraud.

    You continue;

    “No party with revolutionary aspirations can meet even its most basic obligations to the working class without the voluntary acceptance of the principle by all members that once a decision has been reached it is binding on all, especially a minority. Otherwise, if a policy fails its original supporters can justifiably claim that it was not fully operated.”

    This is typical bureaucrat speak and it was absolutely not the tradition of the Bolsheviks up to the seizure of power. In 1907 when the Bolsheviks adopted an ultra left boycott position on the parliament, Lenin voted with the Mensheviks against the faction. In 1917 when Lenin returned from abroad, he threatened to resign from the CC, to use his rights as an ordinary member to campaign against the leadership and for the seizure of power.
    Trotsky reflecting on his experience of the pre-war Bolsheviks disputes in 1919, said that he was far from being wrong in all of those dispute.
    If the Bolsheviks had adopted your bureaucratic line the Russian revolution would never have happened.
    In fact far from blindly accepting “discipline” it is the duty of a Bolshevik in the sense of revolutionary socialist, rather than dumb vehicle for the higher ups, to always to tell the truth, even if they disagree with the party and in public too.
    Democracy is fundamentally about accountability. If they speak out and they are right they will be vindicated. If they are wrong. They won’t be. The political lessons will be learnt and the rank and file and organisation as a whole educated for the future.

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  36. Nick Wright:- “The 1922 congress vote to set up a Party Commission composed of people outside the executive committee was carried by 87 votes to 38.

    Harry Wicks didn’t join the YCL until four years later.”

    No. Harry was in the Daily Herald League, which sent 3 delegates to the Communist Unity Convention in 1920. As the invitation made clear, attendance implied that:-
    “branches, groups and societies represented will accept its decisions and become branches of the Communist Party”

    So although he was only 15, he was de-facto part of an organisation that became a branch of the CP.
    Reg Groves description of Harry’s evolution is as follows:-
    “As a lad working on the railway, Harry had joined the Daily Herald League, which in 1921 went over almost entirely to the newly-founded Communist Party. Harry went with it, helped to form a Young Communist League (YCL) in Battersea; and took part in the production and distribution of the Nine Elms Spark and the Victoria Signal up to the time of the General Strike.
    Elected to the YCL executive in 1926, in the following year he was selected to be sent to the Lenin School. Harry brought us much – he had witnessed episodes in the struggle in the Comintern and the Russian party between the increasingly powerful Stalin group and the Left Opposition, he knew of many international controversies and personalities – and he also knew Battersea, its radical traditions, and its active socialist and Communist Party workers. Harry Wicks was to join us as we renewed our criticisms of the leadership early in the year 1931.”

    http://www.marx.org/history//etol/document/balham/

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  37. 21stcenturymanifesto Avatar
    21stcenturymanifesto

    The unhappy experiences of bill j do not invalidate the principle of democratic centralism but rather serve to demonstrate its validity. This demonstrates the importance of the dialectical link between the broadest democracy in formulating policy and electing leaders and absolute unity in carrying out decisions.

    Leaderships are not permanent. The Communist Party became dissatisfied with some of its leadership decade ago and decided not to reelect the general secretary. As I pointed out this ‘bolshy’ rank and file tradition has a long pedigree in the Communist Party. When the comrades don’t like something they change it and because the centralism goes hand in hand with the democracy the changes stick.

    I was wrong and Prianikoff is right on Harry Wick’s early dates. By this account it was not so much the Comintern importing its line as Harry Wickes bringing back Trotskyism!
    The Balham group was eventually chucked out by the redoubtable Kay Beauchamp – all five foot nothing of her.
    Nick Wright

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  38. “The unhappy experiences of bill j do not invalidate the principle of democratic centralism but rather serve to demonstrate its validity.”

    Dialectical clap trap. Experience is the highest criterion of human reason said Hegel, Marx and Trotsky. But not for Nick Wright.
    It isn’t just my experience of “democratic centralism”. It is true of every single “democratic centralist” organisation that there is today.
    If your bureaucratic top down monolith form of organisation had existed in the Bolshevik Party then Lenin would have been prevented from publishing the April Theses. He would have had no right to challenge the leadership. The Russian revolution would not have happened.
    Oh hang on, on reflection it just proves why Lenin should have shut up his go. In a serious party the members do what the leadership says. How else can you know that the “line” would have worked? Then when the Russian revolution had failed, Lenin could have turned round and said – “see I told you!”
    Except of course there’s always someone to say – the crushing of the workers in bloody counter revolution…vindicates the “line” of the CC.

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  39. johng: I hope your general line of thinking prevails in the SWP. It would mark a welcome step towards acknowledging the reality the left is in and determining to act accordingly rather than counterpose unrealistic calls, such as everyone standing under “Left Unity – XXXX”.

    The paradox that strikes me, however, is that the imminent departure of Rees, German and their faction does not seem to be leading to an assured leadership capable of going in the direction you suggest.

    I genuinely hope that the current rather confused faction fight does not further disorient people. It would certainly be very damaging if a considerable number of comrades started to relish expulsions and thuggish methods (as one of two commenters here have done over the last two years) just because Rees’s arguments are, to say the least, rather disingenuous.

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  40. well I’m not sure that standing ?????-XXXXX (hey lets be broad) represents a failure to recognise these difficulties. And all this talk of “assured leadership” etc. I’m saying nuttin’ but Naz c’mon you know better. I do find the line ups on the blogs deeply ironic. but I’ll get me coat.

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  41. “By this account it was not so much the Comintern importing its line as Harry Wick(e)s bringing back Trotskyism!”

    Actually, his CP London District Aggregate passed a motion condemning “Trotskyism” in 1925.
    None of the documents were available in English and no one had read the originals, except Arthur.E.Reade, who moved an ammendment against the motion.
    He was expelled before the Balham Group was even formed.
    The vote in favour was purely based on the authority of J.T. Murphy and Andrew Rothstein.
    But Harry actually made the point that the Comintern had a better position than the British CP on the first minority Labour government!

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  42. johng: if you think that “assured leadership” was a backhanded compliment to John Rees (which is the only way I can make sense of what you said), then, John, I’m afraid the factional mindset has taken over.

    I certainly am not promoting Rees’s leadership, assured or otherwise. And I have no idea what you mean by the line-ups on the blogs.

    I would have thought that the re-evaluation of No Platform by various people who were burned by Rees would put them closer to the thinking of Martin Smith, if you want to view everything through the prism of the debate inside the SWP.

    Anyway – the problem of standing as ????? – (insert name of existing electoral organisation) is that it simply isn’t possible under the rules of the Electoral Commission. Once the name of an organisation is registered, it can’t be used as a descriptor following the name of another registered organisation.

    So the proposal by Martin Smith that organisations stand as Left Unity – Socialist Alternative, Left Unity – Socialist Workers Party, Left Unity – Respect etc won’t work – because it’s impossible even leaving aside the need to register a new organisation, “Left Unity” with a returning officer, treasurer, etc.

    This isn’t some pettyfogging detail. Serious proposals about how the left might go forward need to be seriously thought through.

    Where we are, in my view, is where tlc put it above. Surely some practical cooperation now to maximise the left’s vote, standing in various places under various names, is much more worthwhile than trying to host a discussion over a proposal which isn’t feasible.

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  43. John – before you get you coat – perhaps it might be well to think about exactly what can be achieved here electorally in the next six months – to inch us all to the position of being ‘slightly less fucked’.

    We have an election fast approaching. In all likelihood we are going to see the return of a confident and vicious Tory government (witness the salivating Ken Clarke – circa 1980s – relishing the full privatisation of the post-office) so we have an idea of what we face.

    The left cannot pose a national challenge to this. We are too small and too fragmented. At best there will be a mosaic of the left standing – with some places the expectation of a battle royal with neo-liberalism and a chance of victory (Tower Hamlets, Brighton, Birmingham Hall Green, Blaenau Gwent, Norwich South) and in other places there is the prospect of a decent vote – or a vote that begins to galvanise the movement of resistance to come (Preston, Blackley, Coventry, Bradford).

    Now we can spend the next few weeks arguing over a new name, over a new constitution, over the officers of a new organisation which would be registered at the Electoral Commission (which will have no name recognition and no time to develop it)…or we can get real and get behind the best candidate on the left in each constituency and go out and go out and campaign for them – and welcome others into the campaign with open arms. Learn to love the mosaic of the left cos it’s, in reality, the best we are going to get this side of the election.

    Some of the ‘big names’ can do even more. I understand Galloway has offered to come to Preston for a day during the campaign to help out Val Wise. Real concrete, practical assistance considering the tight battle he will have to fight in Poplar. Now if Gary in Tottenham or Neil in Bolton or Maxine in Sheffield should stand at the election they should be given the support of all in the left around them. And if they want to stand as Respect the offer is open – and if they want to stand as something else they’ll get Respect’s backing but in my opinion, it’s time to put candidates in place rather than discuss another new organisation.

    Time is running out

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  44. Nas, what IS possible is that candidates stand together on a Left Unity (or whatever) slate and use that descriptor on election materials. This is entirely acceptable in election law and requires no additional registration.
    National publications could then be produced promoting these candidates, in addition to what is done locally, with a view to co-ordinating support for a broad range of left cndidates.
    Granted they would not get a broadcast or anything like that but a joint press operation could also be run.
    At the end of the day, on the ballot paper each candidate would simply be described in their usual way- eg Respect or Socialist alternative or independent- but the unity achieved in the course of the campaign is the key thing.

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  45. RobM: that is possible. But producing election material which does not promote the same name as appears on the ballot paper seems a recipe for confusion.

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  46. a small international current that regards itself as the unique depository of Marxist truth and regards itself as capable of giving the correct answer on every question, in every part of the planet (in one of its most caricatured forms, by publishing a paper that looks suspiciously like Socialist Worker and aping every tactical turn of the British SWP).

    What current would that be then? A little strange that the SWP is named and shamed in detail, yet there is nomenclatural silence here.

    Against this template, the SWP is Neanderthal, a particular variant of the dogmatic-sectarian propagandist tradition that has been so dominant in Britain since the early 20th century.

    Nice that he thinks they’re some variety of human beings.

    It is time that its members demanded a rethink.
    Does Phil Hearse want his tendency to join the SWP?

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  47. I wonder if the John Rees faction will truely recognise the error of its ways and rejoin Repsect as a disciplined faction prepared to do exemplary work in time for the election. I hope so and I think he could bring a lot of people with him if he decided to do that. I’m sure there are a lot of SWPer very frustrated by having been removed from politics by the impetuous walk out and attempted wrecking exercise.

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  48. n the technical issue, of how you could satnd as xxx- yyy

    My understanding is that if xxx is registed as a party with the electoral commission; and if yyy is alos rehsitered as a party with an electoral commission,

    If a candidate has the approval of the nominating officers of both xxx and yyy, then both party names couod appear on the ballot paper, as long as the overall description did no exceed 6 words.

    Also, it is possible for two political parties to register with very similar names, and to work effectivley in parallel with each other.

    To take a not very obscure example, there is the Labour party, and the Cooperative and labour Party.

    So the proposal is not necessarily technically impossible, but it would require negotoation and sicussion with the electral commission.

    having said all of that, the question is a political one, not a technical one. Gieven that none of the groups that might be included have any electoral weight excpet Respect, and in Coventry Dave Nellist, there would be nothng to be gained by it for the coming election.

    What is more it is a distraction from the key tasks of: i) focussing left of labour attention on the handful of winnablel seats; and ii) elsewhere arguing for a labour victory.

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  49. andy newman: I think that’s nearly right. But the Electoral Commission have indicated in a couple of cases and inquiries that they are wholly unwilling to become a third party to an agreement between two or more others, which might break down leaving them part of a civil dispute. Their legal advice and inclination is that the purpose of the statute is to prevent such disputes arising by providing very clear guidelines on what might or might not be registered so as to avoid overlap and confusion in the eyes of the voters.

    The reason the Cooperative Labour Party, or indeed the Socialist Labour Party, are registered is that they had contested under those names before the passing of the PPERA. It would be at the very least questionable that they could get such a registration from afresh now.

    So – my take is that it is unfeasible to have the common name and varying descriptor (being another registered name).

    But you are, of course, right: the issue is political. I cannot see the justification for avoiding the open and achievable position of backing credible left candidates where they are standing under whatever names.

    I’m pleased that Respect has taken that view and communicated it to others.

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  50. David Ellis – you are funny sometimes.

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  51. Nas “producing election material which does not promote the same name as appears on the ballot paper seems a recipe for confusion.”
    not ideal but not necessarily a major issue. in the old Socialist Allaince days the SP stood as Socialist alternative on the ballot paper and in their publicity but also had the Soc Alliance logo on their leaflets.
    Think of ‘left unity’ as less a platform but more of a kite-mark! You put out clear Respect or SWP candidate leaflets but have the Left Unity logo on as a sort of seal of approval! Together with a short statement (three or four bullet points) of what all LU candidates have in common, its just sufficient branding to pull disparate groups and individuals together and to allow common press releases. I think thats about the limit of what can be achieved.

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  52. RobM: I admire your creativity But I really cannot see what is to be gained, for example, in East London, where Respect has fought very hard to clarify its name after confusion caused by a breakaway group of councillors, for the organisation creating further confusion by putting other logos on the leaflet.

    I don’t quite get the seal of approval thing either. Approved by whom? It would be different if there was an organisation or party with some recognition that was endorsing another party at an election. That could make sense to voters.

    For instance – it may be that Val Wise in Preston would welcome endorsement from George Galloway. That’s a serious step and the kind of practical one that we should focus on in my view.

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  53. I’m all in favour, if nothing else can be achieved, of backing credible left candidates whereever they stand, and devising means and ways of co-operating. It is in no sense outside of the boundaries either of SW’s position during the last election (which called for votes for precisely that, although it was belated and a little unclear) or indeed in wider attempts to get discussions going. However a) there would obviously have to be proper discussion about this between parties concerned and b) we will continue to argue about the neccessity of some kind of national alternative. If we can’t get this before the election we will all suffer, but everything we do should be premissed on an understanding that ultimately this has to happen, and has to be the goal. Many people want to know, given that the BNP exists where the fuck is the left. Telling them that there were some events in a room three years ago is a bit irrelevent really.

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  54. Its a shame that these discussion always get diverted down the road of who to vote for in the next election.
    A bit more anarchism would be nice.

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  55. “A bit more anarchism would be nice…”

    Certainly a bit more attention to principle would be nice. At the moment all we’re getting on the election is a lot of useless speculation and a laissez-faire attitude to who-stands-where.

    The speculation about the “Rees Faction” re-joining Respect is surely a Comedy punch line.
    Isn’t the notion that they will inevitably split just something the CPGB-Weekly Worker are stirring up?

    Maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll just submit to the Conference vote and carry on afterwards. Lindsey German after all, was one of Cliff’s designated successors who he trusted to carry on the SWP. So a split would be pretty devastating.

    As for the rest. I seriously can’t see Respect making any breakthrough beyond the areas where they’ll get votes from the Mosque network. I think they’re stuck in that niche because of the nature of the Alliance that was created when the SWP dropped the S.A. Lavalette is the heritage of this in the SWP.
    You can try an convince me otherwise, but I’m think events will confirm that analysis.

    “Son of No2EU” -SP- CP-B is too untried, got lousy votes last time and too tied to the Peoples Charter strategy, with its TUC ammendment for working to change the LP.

    The Greens have the potential to let the Tories in without having principled politics to replace them with.

    More to the point, none of these groupings are united.
    It’s still a question of keeping out the Tories, so this means returning a Labour Government – like it, or not.

    So how exactly are you gonna relate to that?

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  56. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    The BNP have been the BNP in elections for a long time – there is name recognition to be had, though no doubt at first they suffered from the NF being better known.
    Whereas, when the left engages in electoral forays, all too often it is under one name one election, under another name in the next. And the electorate are not leftie anoraks who are fascinated by such things. There are more complex reasons for the current situation but brand labels are important, in advertising and also elections.

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  57. ‘I seriously can’t see Respect making any breakthrough beyond the areas where they’ll get votes from the Mosque network.’

    In all my time in Birmingham I don’t think I have ever heard of a ‘mosque’ (as if they are politically unified entities) calling on its supporters to vote in a particular way. If anything they are nervous about so doing, even if they were all united and so minded, because of the inevitable backlash that would ensue if they tried. I know this to be the case for a fact in Birmingham Central Mosque, the largest mosque in the city. In the recent Sparkbrook by-election I am not aware of a single mosque leader or committee that nailed its colours openly to the mast of any party. Now, maybe some find this hard to accept, but the overwhelmingly bulk of Respect votes from within the Muslim community are given freely, out of conviction and in defiance to those with most political influence in the community who invariably are Labour supporters.

    As for being stuck in a ‘niche’, we have strong support in the Muslim community because of our unstinting opposition to war and racism. Shame more of the British public would not switch voting loyalties for similar reasons. But this is a long struggle, politics is in flux, and we are working hard to broaden our appeal. The remarkable decision of the Green Party in Birmingham not to field a candidate against Salma Yaqoob is an indication of the progress being made.

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  58. Honestly a bit more anarchism would be nice.

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  59. bill – i think the needle’s stuck, give it a whack.

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  60. I think the article’s right. We should break with the particularly narrow form of ‘democratic centralism’ that has led to such distrust of the left.

    We should be for open discussions of tactical differences, for organisational fluidity, for inviting discussion on tactics on how best to win in struggles. The only imposition of democratically agreed policies should be in situations like a strike when we would argue that the decision of the majority – to close a workplace or occupy- should be binding.

    To rebuild the workers’ movement and a revolutionary socialist current within it we have to break with the petty dogmatism of the past, break with the policy of putting the group’s needs above that of the class struggle and have an open honest debate alongside other activists in struggle.

    As part of this we need to assemble a network of such activists- in the unions, on the estates, in the campuses and other arenas of struggle- to organise a class wide fightback. For working class people to become the ruling class of the new society we are trying to create they need to be central in controlling their struggles.

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  61. A detailed look at the history of the Portuguese Left Bloc and its internal life can be found at

    What’s Behind the Left Bloc’s Success in Portugal?

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  62. I see that Ger Francis is advising punters to get a piece of the 16/1 being offered by the bookies on a Yaqoob victory in Birmingham. I seem to remember that when Galloway won in Bethnal Green he was about 2/1 by the time of the election, so perhaps pride has cometh before a fall.

    As part of this we need to assemble a network of such activists- in the unions, on the estates, in the campuses and other arenas of struggle- to organise a class wide fightback.
    Sort of like a socialist workers party?

    Keep saying it billj, it’s coming some time,maybe.

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  63. ‘As part of this we need to assemble a network of such activists- in the unions, on the estates, in the campuses and other arenas of struggle- to organise a class wide fightback.’
    Sort of like a socialist workers party?”

    Exactly like a socialist workers’ party!

    However, the network clearly needs to be wider than a revolutionary organisation; it should be open, democratic, have wide discussions and debates over tactics with members of other organisations joining in and not making the decisions behind closed doors and then block voting.

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  64. Can I at this point interject that I fervently prefer butter to margerine and think that good things are good?

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  65. No you can’t. You misspell margarine and the claim that good things are good shows undialectical thinking.

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  66. If johng is claiming that the ‘butter’ of revolutionary organisation is better than the ‘margarine’ of losse networks of workers (is that his extended metaphor or was it just a random interjection on a cold autumnal day?) then I think that his logic is mistaken.

    We should be for building a revolutionary organisation- I personally would be quite happy to have one with the SWP, SP, AWL, WP, CPGB etc all involved as well as the rather greater numbers of non-aligned left- but the whole point of any revolutionary organisation worth anything to anyone is to help organise the self-activity and autonomy of workers in struggle.

    Of course we try to win them to revolution but we don’t make that a pre-condition of working with them- indeed we want to win specific gains and by winning show that workers can and should run society in general.

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  67. “johng is claiming that the ‘butter’ of revolutionary organisation is better than the ‘margarine’ of losse networks of workers”

    I wish to deny emphatically that i was making any kind of substantive claim about anything at all most emphatically. It would though be really nice to think that the reason for the absence of activist networks in different areas (very sorely missed on a range of issues) is down to a section of the left having the wrong interpretation of Leninism. Very, very unfortunately (because this would be very easy to fix) it is not so.

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  68. Actually, I think the weakness of the left is down to johng’s preference for animal-based toast spreads over those derived from the much more progressive vegetable sources. It has clearly discredited our movement in the eyes of the working class internationally. Shame on you, johng!

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  69. To be fair my quote, complete with the misspelling, was “If johng is claiming that the ‘butter’ of revolutionary organisation is better than the ‘margarine’ of losse networks of workers (is that his extended metaphor …?)’

    “It would though be really nice to think that the reason for the absence of activist networks in different areas (very sorely missed on a range of issues) is down to a section of the left having the wrong interpretation of Leninism. Very, very unfortunately (because this would be very easy to fix) it is not so.”

    I agree with you there.

    What the left or a section of it have to say or do is not the main reason why we’re in such a desperate state. That is far more to do with the defeats imposed by the ruling class, to do with the betrayals of the union bureacracy and their complicity in sections of workers being temporarily bought off only to be defeated more generally later, to do with many many other things.

    A small part of it though has been the lack of a coherent response by the left.

    Much more pertinently we can do something about it- if only in very small ways to begin with. We can build campaigns- in workplaces or communities- in open democratic participatory ways. We can join forces. From very small successes we can begin the long slow hard process of rebuilding the workers’ movement and a revolutionary left within it- one that can and should be respected for being hard working honest fighters for working class struggles.

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  70. The CPGB would undoubtedly love Rees to walk out of the SWP. For reasons we can only guess at, they profess to want left unity but at every opportunity try to foment fragmentation. Their media show at the time of the SWP/Galloway split was sickening, especially in the way it was a gift to Labour.

    As to Rees and co joining RESPECT, where would that leave the formation of an electoral platform (or in the longer run, a class struggle) alternative to Labour? In exacly the same position as now!

    Would it in any way clarify how revolutionary socialists can work in broader formations? Would it clarify the political line of the SWP and help them learn any lessons? No! Just more abuse and recriminations.

    As for “the left is fucked” position, this is a one-sided and apolitical position because (though I see where it comes from) it is a recipe for passivity.

    And we already have plenty of desktop leftists waiting for the movement to fall down before the purity of their political line.

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  71. The odds on Galloway winning BG and Bow at this stage before the last general election were very long indeed.

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  72. Yes Jason my point was mainly that calling for socialists to do something in particular is concrete because doable. Imagining that we were in another situation entirely is not. The left may be a bit fucked at the moment. But it can be less fucked. And that depends crucially on what we actually do. For a certainty avoiding sectarianism, being capable of giving credit where credit is due, and not treating left wing politics as a personal grudge match is very much a part of doing the right thing. And I don’t have any problem with your vision of a broad movement of activists working togeather. It would be great. But I also don’t think there is a one size fits all model for this at the moment. And there isn’t really a reason why this should be treated as a terrible problem.

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  73. We may be largely in agreement here.

    Certainly on concrete demands for things to do- e.g. support workers in struggle, support whatever makes them more likely to win the struggle. There isn’t a one size fits all for sure. But as a general principle there should be rank and file control of the struggles, strike committees meeting regularly reporting back to mass meetings would be one way. Perhaps having a mass strike committee is another way.

    We can be flexible in terms of organisation.

    On one issue I think we may disagree. I think the image of the left as a series of warring rude little groups is a terrible problem. And I think it does need a long hard honest look at by members of the left groups to work in more open, more engaging and much more respectful ways.

    I agree that even if we sorted out that problem that the workers’ movement would still be divided, weak, attenuated etc. Simply having a better left wouldn’t in and of itself make a difference: I concur on that also.

    For socialists to win the leadership of mass movements there are several tasks not least of which is to create a mass movement. That can’t be done by will alone but nurturing networks of activists and militants, sharing information, tactics and strategy will help for when mass struggles do break out again.

    However, for socialist to win leadership in those mass struggles when they do break out, changing the way we work and operate is a necessary though by no means sufficient condition.

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  74. I put this up before but for some reason it didn’t come up- lost in cyberspace.

    We may be largely in agreement here.

    Certainly on concrete demands for things to do- e.g. support workers in struggle, support whatever makes them more likely to win the struggle. There isn’t a one size fits all for sure. But as a general principle there should be rank and file control of the struggles, strike committees meeting regularly reporting back to mass meetings would be one way. Perhaps having a mass strike committee is another way.

    We can be flexible in terms of organisation.

    On one issue I think we may disagree. I think the image of the left as a series of warring rude little groups is a terrible problem. And I think it does need a long hard honest look at by members of the left groups to work in more open, more engaging and much more respectful ways.

    I agree that even if we sorted out that problem that the workers’ movement would still be divided, weak, attenuated etc. Simply having a better left wouldn’t in and of itself make a difference: I concur on that also.

    For socialists to win the leadership of mass movements there are several tasks not least of which is to create a mass movement. That can’t be done by will alone but nurturing networks of activists and militants, sharing information, tactics and strategy will help for when mass struggles do break out again.

    However, for socialist to win leadership in those mass struggles when they do break out, changing the way we work and operate is a necessary though by no means sufficient condition.

    Jason

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  75. Now it’s come up twice!!

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  76. “It’s still a question of keeping out the Tories, so this means returning a Labour Government – like it, or not.”

    Stuff that. A vote for Labour is a vote for all this government’s attacks on the working class, its attacks on civil liberties, its record over the Iraq war.

    A vote for New Labour is just as much a vote for the bosses as a vote for the Tories.

    Labour deserves to lose. Not that any of their opponents deserve to win, of course, but then again in elections, as in wars, it is very rare that all sides lose.

    But a victory for New Labour would be a defeat for socialism, not a victory in any way. It would represent popular endorsement of the crimes of Blair and Brown.

    You can keep that.

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  77. The odds on Galloway winning BG and Bow at this stage before the last general election were very long indeed.
    Do you have any figures?
    Of course he had the SWP working for him then.

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  78. ID: I just don’t get this logic. New Labour winning the next election would be a “defeat for socialism”. I presume (I may be wrong) that a victory for the Tories (which would be a defeat for New Labour) would also be a “defeat for socialism”.

    So the next election will see a defeat for socialism no matter who wins? I’m not sure how that takes us any further forward.

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  79. How can the re-election of a bourgeois government, which actually does not pretend to be anything else, not be a defeat for socialism?

    Yes, the election of the Tories would also be a defeat for socialism, in a sense. The election of an openly capitalist party, not pretending to be anything else, can only be seen as a defeat for socialism.

    If the LP claimed in any way to represent socialism or the working class, even if that claim was terribly flawed, then its victory would be in some way an advance, at least in terms of consciousness, for those who voted for it for those reasons. But it doesn’t.

    It openly breaks strikes. It has systematically attacked civil liberties. It has waged a series of imperialist wars that its leaders are utterly unrepentant about. It has also promoted for years the fairytale that degregulated free-market capitalism can be crisis-free and is the best of all possible systems. Now to preserve that form of capitalism it is preparing a savage attack on working class living standards to pay off the cost of bailing out the system when that delusion came up against the reality of a major capitalist crisis.

    These are fundamentally the reasons why it is so unpopular. The only reason why its capitalist rivals (the Tories) are likely to win the election is because they have not been in power during these events, and given the low level of class consciousness, many naively believe that they might be a bit better. When in fact they are no different in terms of what they plan to do.

    Returning this government to power would amount to a popular endorsement of its record. I can’t see how that can be anything other than a defeat for the left.

    The only elements in the Labour Party that deserve support from the left are those that have in some demonstrable way opposed this. But all these people are out in the cold and nothing to do with the government.

    Relecting a openly right-wing capitalist government is not something we should be advocating.

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  80. So the next election will see a defeat for socialism no matter what. Or rather, one result will be a defeat for socialism and the other a defeat for socialism *in a sense*.

    “Returning this government to power would amount to a popular endorsement of its record.”

    I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The return of the Labour government in 1979 would have been on the basis of deep hostility to Thatcher. Similarly in 1970. If Labour by some miracle won the next election it would surely have a huge amount to do with opposition to Cameron.

    In any case, surely the issue is what are the best circumstances under which to organise. I don’t think a Tory landslide is one of them.

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  81. “If Labour by some miracle won the next election it would surely have a huge amount to do with opposition to Cameron. ”

    There is very little chance of this happening now, since for most people Labour is not seen as any better that Cameron, and for many it it seen as worse. This ain’t the 1970s, and Labour has changed. What it is perceived to stand for is different. It stands just as much for the wealthy as do the Tories.

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  82. In any case, Labour lost both the 1970 and 1979 elections to a right-wing backlash as it was seen as a party too influenced by trade unions and unable to control them. This was enabled to happen because in office it acted contrary to the way it said it would when it stood for election, and disappointed its supporters.

    Today, it has not done anything of the sort. As Blair said, and Brown has continued to implement, “We were elected as New Labour and we will govern as New Labour”. They have done just that.

    That is, as an openly anti-union party, that represents the interests of the very wealthy. The contradiction that existed in 1970 and 1979 no longer exists.

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  83. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    Perhaps I am ultra-left, but I feel that the Tories would virtually have to introduce open fascism to be worse than New Labour.

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  84. ID,

    Can you tel me more about the right wing anti-trade union backlasj in the 1970 election.

    My information is that Heath fought the election almost entirely on the economy rather than anything to do with trade unions, and indeed the election was very volatile, polls had labour 13% ahead only two weeks before the election – and it was unexpectedly bad trade figures announced two days before polling that led to a slender Tory margin of victory. Even on the night of the election Heath thought he had lost.

    ID, you also say: “since for most people Labour is not seen as any better that Cameron, and for many it it seen as worse. This ”

    For most people???

    Labour are still expecting a mass vote in the millions, which is evidecne that at least for those several million, perhaps between 6 million and 9 million, it is seen as better than the Tories.

    Also it simply is the case that cameron will be worse. And if most voters don’t realise that, then we shoudl educate them with the truth, not mislead them into beleiving there is no difference.

    ID – let me tell you a secret. Even if Respect wins 3 MPs at the next eelection, we will not be forming the government, but It matters to us who does. And a laboutr government will be a better context for advance than a Tory government.

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  85. I’d say that the absence of an at least noticable increase for votes for independent socialists of whatever stripe in the forthcoming election would be a defeat for socialism. I certainly don’t think socialists would advocate the return of the Tories but I also think its wrong to imagine that Labour hanging onto power whilst the left shrinks and the fascists grow would in any sense be a step foward.

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  86. johng: of course your later scenario is not a step forward. But nor is it a worse outcome than the tories getting in alongside no left of Labour candidates and a breakthrough for the BNP.

    This is about two things:

    1)Can forces to the left of Labour win and in so doing point the way to an alternative to the failure of the Labour Party over the last 12 years
    2) Can those forces connect with the core of the labour movement

    Throwing everything in to winning where the left can or can get impressive results (a few places), while firmly being ainst a Tory government seems the right policy. Of course, policies reflect the particular interests of their authors. Which is why they need to meet the test of what is in the interests of the movement as a whole.

    I can’t see how it would be better off under a Tory rather than Labour government.

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  87. I certainly don’t think a Tory victory would be a step foward. But I also don’t think its in the gift of the left to save Gordon Brown from himself. The only thing we have any control over is what we do. And I think the most important thing we can do is to try and ensure that the left grows in the coming months, links up with the struggles going on, and, if we can manage the bonus, somehow gets its act togeather politically to be a small but viable force on the electoral scene. When we wake up in the morning the day after the election its this which will be decisive. One feature of the situation though is likely to be arguments trying to suggest that independent candidates are a luxury we can’t afford with a Tory victory on the cards. This pressure will grow. It would be a disaster to give in to it.

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  88. Andy Newman

    “My information is that Heath fought the election almost entirely on the economy rather than anything to do with trade unions, and indeed the election was very volatile, polls had labour 13% ahead only two weeks before the election – and it was unexpectedly bad trade figures announced two days before polling that led to a slender Tory margin of victory. Even on the night of the election Heath thought he had lost.”

    Well, the Tory election manifesto said:

    “We will introduce a comprehensive Industrial Relations Bill in the first Session of the new Parliament. It will provide a proper framework of law within which improved relation ships between management, men and unions can develop. We welcome the TUC’s willingness to take action through its own machinery against those who disrupt industrial peace by unconstitutional or unofficial action. Yet it is no substitute for the new set of fair and reasonable rules we will introduce. ”

    And they did win. There had also been a attempt by the Labour Party in government to introduce a similar policy before the election, titled ‘In Place of Strife’ but that had been beaten off by union influence. It was a touch and go election, but Heath still won an overall majority.

    Incidentally, even in the General Election of February 1974, which ended Heath’s government, the Tories still had slightly more of the popular vote than Labour, though Labour won more seats, and formed a minority government. So yes, there was considerable anti-union sentiment and class polarisation in those days. Fortunately, the unions were then strong enough to beat this off by mass struggles.

    Today, Labour is just as anti-union as the Tories.

    “Labour are still expecting a mass vote in the millions, which is evidecne that at least for those several million, perhaps between 6 million and 9 million, it is seen as better than the Tories.”

    Well, both Tories and Lib Dems are seen as ‘better’ than Labour (and each other) by considerable numbers of people, as evidenced by their mass support.

    The real question is – are New Labour seen as ‘better’ in a class-conscious sense than their capitalist rivals? I would say definitely not – they are just as hostile to any hint of working class indpendence and struggle as their rivals. Everyone who knows anything about British politics knows this.

    There are a great many former Labour voters who will not turn out to vote for these bastards, which is why they will lose the election. I have more in common with those people than with people who vote for Labour knowing full well it offers nothing to working people other than what we have suffered for the last 12 years. More privatisation, more imperialist wars, more attacks on living standards, more attacks on civil liberties, etc etc. ad nauseum.

    Labour doesn’t represent the working class, even in a deformed way, any more. As Tony Blair said, accurately, New Labour is a completely new party, not the same as the old Labour Party. The bourgeois component of this (former) bourgeois workers party has been qualitatively enhanced – it is now not a bourgeois workers party (that is a working class organisation with a servile leadership that in the last analysis defends capitalism), but rather an outright cross- class formation including significant bourgeois forces.

    Those pro-working class forces that remain adhered to this neo-liberal ‘popular front in the form of a party’ need to be split away. No vote to New Labour neo-liberal scumbags!

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  89. Dirty Red Bandana Avatar
    Dirty Red Bandana

    ID, you seem to hole your argument by noting In Place of Strife in 1969. Labour started the process of attempting to undermine unofficial union organization and weld shopfloor organization more closely to the union leaderships. The Tories pushed further and tried an even more confrontational approach that collapsed with Saltley Gates and the Pentonville Dockers in 1972.

    Again, Labour moved against the unofficial networks in TULRA in 1975 and with the policy of wage restraint that backfired in 1978-9. The Tories were forced to wait until 1984-5 before going for anti-union legislation, again designed as with the Labour legislation to strengthen the hand of the bureaucracy against the membership.

    There is also the obvious case of the Miners Strike of 1984-5, the preparation for which was the highly divisive productivity deal of 1977 under a Labour government.

    Policy and practice is not where the difference between Labour, New Labour and the Tories lies. The idea that the Tories are nastier is not borne out by history. Labour never did represent the working class in even a ‘deformed way’ whatever that means..we could trawl through 1929-31, 45-51 and see the same assaults on the working class including the use of troops to strike break.

    Your analysis needs a new foundation, I suggest.

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  90. ID

    A relatively anodyne refernece to trade unions in the 1970 Tory manifesto is hardly evidence that their vistory amountd to a “backlash” against trade unions.

    Especially as wage restraint and curbing of union power was also advocated by key intellectual figures of the left like Thomas Balogh.

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  91. That’s very weak. The proposed Industrial Relations Act was the cornerstone of the subsequent Heath government. The proposal was hardly ‘anodyne’. In fact, In Place of Strife showed that the ‘backlash’ against Trade Unions was sufficient to influence some at the highest level of the LP. However, the unions were then strong enough to put a stop to it.

    There has always been a contradiction within Labour between its desire to administer capitalism and its former nature as a political expression of the trade unions (or more accurately, the TU bureaucracy). But that contradiction within Labour has been resolved by the qualitative strengthening of the outright capitalist elements within the party, which is why Blair was able to boast that New Labour was a new party. It is the culimination of a long process, and its not a rigid ‘either-or’. Elements that existed previously in equilibrium with others are now completely in control, and have been strengthened by an influx of outright bourgeois elements to the point that a qualitative change has taken place.

    My position is not the same as that of the Socialist Party, as I understand it, which seems to be that Labour is now simply a bourgeois party through and through. Though that could be the eventual outcome, Labour would not be so useful to the ruling class if that happened. As a cross-class party, it really exists to paralyse the working class and acts to prevent the emergence of working class politics. But a misunderstanding of the nature of New Labour is in my view a key political problem that is holding back the British left.

    And no, ‘Old Labour’ governments were never ‘nice’. It is not possible to adminster capitalism in a ‘nice’ way, though they did also deliver some important reforms. However, there was always a counter-pressure from the fact that Labour was at the same time a political expression of organised workers. Today, that is no longer true. Organised workers are still tied to it, but it no longer represents them in any way. It represents the boss class.

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  92. […] article: ‘Phalanxes Are Bad‘ by Phil Hearse (November […]

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