On the basis that they’ve ripped me off often enough  I’m going to break with longstanding custom and reproduce a piece from the Weekly Worker.

Email thought crimes and the Left Platform

The SWP central committee has made its intentions regarding the opposition Left Platform crystal-clear, writes Peter Manson. John Rees, Lindsey German, Chris Nineham and their supporters now look set to be charged with ‘factionalism’ and expelled

In the third and last of the Socialist Workers Party’s 2009 Pre-conference Bulletin (also known as the Internal Bulletin IB No3), which has just been published, the final contribution to this 96-page document is that of the CC itself, entitled ‘With democracy comes responsibility and accountability’.

The article attempts to justify the recent expulsions of two Left Platform comrades and the disciplining of a third by reproducing emails that allegedly incriminate them. They purport to show that a group of members have been engaged in political cooperation outside official SWP structures and outside the three-month period before conference when temporary factions are permitted.

The CC statement reads: “… it became clear to a very large number of comrades that, far from putting last year’s arguments to one side and helping implement the perspectives that the vast majority of the party had agreed to, a small group of comrades were involved in secret, and in some cases not so secret, factional activities.”

The reproduced emails all predate the current pre-conference period when temporary factions like the Reesite Left Platform are allowed – the SWP annual conference is to be held over the weekend of January 8-10 – but, says the CC, “permanent factions are not permitted in our organisation”. This “ensures that the party is not paralysed”, the membership is informed.

There is a bitter dispute about how the CC got hold of the three emails it reproduces. While the leadership claims they were leaked by a “concerned member”, disciplined Left Platform supporter James Meadway insists that an SWP leader used the password of expelled comrade Claire Solomon to hack into them. However, the CC, while denying this, dismisses it as irrelevant – the emails exist and they prove factionalism. And, since one of them was sent to comrades Rees, German and Nineham, it is pretty clear that these three factional leaders (and former leaders of the SWP itself, of course) are also in the firing line.

The email sent to Rees, German and Nineham (amongst other Left Platform members) was written in August by comrade Meadway. Addresses beginning “jwrees@”, “germanlindsey@” and “chrisnineham@” (the rest has been blacked out in every case) are shown in the ‘CC’ box. The fact that a group of comrades has exchanged emails is, in itself, a disciplinary offence, it seems, since these emails provide the sole basis of the charge of factionalism against the members concerned (although no action has, of yet, been taken against comrades Rees, German and Nineham).

Comrade Meadway’s email discussed the number of visitors to the Stop the War Coalition website. As the three faction leaders are all key STWC workers, it is hardly surprising that he should copy them in. This email was also sent to Elaine Graham-Leigh, another STWC worker and Left Platform member. Meadway states that a good number of ‘visits by source’ to the STWC site come from Facebook and Twitter, and there are also a large number linked from ARSSE, the unofficial soldiers’ bulletin board. However, only 17 visits in a month came from the Socialist Worker website, which comrade Meadway said was “an indication of how much coverage SW is giving to Stop the War” (the Left Platform contends that the CC is deliberately downplaying the importance of the coalition).

Meadway also gave statistics for the Counterfire site, run by fellow Left Platform comrade Ady Cousins, who was later instructed by the CC to close it down, and commented: “Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are serving us well.” All this is supposed to show that Counterfire and presumably the STWC are regarded by the Reesites as factional.

Comrade Snowdon’s email was sent to Claire Solomon and copied to Left Platform supporters, including German, Meadway and Tony Dowling, who has been publicly reprimanded by the Tyneside district of the SWP for “bureaucratic conduct” in his role as secretary of the National Shop Stewards Network in the north-east. Snowdon advises Solomon how to behave at the meeting she has been summoned to attend with CC members Hannah Dee and (the late) Chris Harman. He points out that the ‘Mutiny’ event she had organised, about which the CC was expressing paranoiac suspicions, involved “various non-members” of the SWP and was not a “factional initiative”. He also advised her to “delay, delay, delay” – she would be safer once the official pre-conference period had begun. This email was considered sufficient grounds for comrade Snowdon to be expelled.

Solomon’s own ‘incriminating’ email – to the same group of comrades – merely expressed nervousness at having to face the CC – the clearest indication that her ‘crime’ lay exclusively in the sending of it. This email was the only evidence needed to secure her expulsion.

Meadway points out in a separate contribution in the same issue of the Pre-conference Bulletin that “Our existing rules on factions do not fit a world of instant group communication.” As he says, all you have to do is click on ‘cc’ and – hey presto – you have a faction. Indeed any two comrades who discuss SWP business and agree on a joint approach on any question can be accused of factionalising. It must be particularly difficult for activists like comrades Rees and German, who happen to be partners, to avoid mentioning ‘the party’ in their private conversations.

Excluded

IB No3 is totally dominated by the CC-LP faction fight, with both sides slugging it out in numerous contributions. Most of the others are coloured by it too. Although all LP submissions have clearly been published, the comrades complain that in other respects the CC is refusing to enter into democratic debate and has done its utmost to ensure that LP delegates elected to conference are kept to a minimum.

A group of Left Platform comrades, including Lindsey German, have written ‘Is this what democracy looks like? (part 2)’ – part 1 was in IB No2. Here it is alleged that “District committees (often only a handful of comrades) have been instructed to draw up a ‘recommended list’ which excludes all LP members, whatever their record. So people elected virtually every year have been excluded from the list, apparently for putting their names on a piece of paper.

“… in Norwich it was argued that only eight delegates instead of the entitled nine should go in order to exclude a longstanding and active member who supports LP … Now, of course, people are entitled to vote against LP in a contested election. But it is completely outside our tradition to refuse to allow someone to go even where there is no competition for delegates.”

What is more, a good number of SWP full-timers and
national committee members (the latter being entitled to attend as observers) have been elected as delegates. This, say the LP comrades, creates a conflict of interest and is part of the CC plan to marginalise them.

The leadership denies none of this. In ‘With democracy comes responsibility and accountability’ the CC explains: “… in the run-up to conference, when a faction has been declared, it is no surprise that many comrades vote according to their views on the different perspectives outlined. It is not serious to suggest … that comrades should automatically go to conference because they have ‘decades of experience’.”

What is more, “It is up to comrades in each district to decide who they elect to conference. They can vote to send their full entitlement or just one person if they wish. If they do not wish to send someone to conference because they do not represent the views of the district, that is comrades’ right.”

So let me get this straight. Comrades should deliberately seek to exclude from the organisation’s sovereign body dedicated, experienced activists merely because they are proposing a different perspective (and it has to be said that the real differences are actually those of nuance – although both sides have attempted to blow them up out of all proportion to cover up a split based largely on personal clashes). And it is perfectly all right to send “just one person” instead of nine, even if those excluded have something pertinent to say?

Democracy

If the SWP leadership was really concerned with democracy, it would strive to ensure that all minority views were represented at conference roughly in proportion to their influence. That way, the arguments can be thrashed out and the most appropriate decisions are more likely to be made.

But the leadership is not concerned with democracy. It believes that important decisions are best left to the CC itself. After all, SWP membership is open to anyone who fills in an application form and if such people, as opposed to wise, experienced comrades like Martin Smith and Alex Callinicos, were allowed collective control over the whole organisation, inevitably huge errors would be made. But comrades like Smith and Callinicos are also capable of huge errors. The best means of trying to prevent them is precisely through democracy and the accountability of the few to the many.

As for the allegation that conference is being stacked in the CC’s favour by electing full-timers, the CC has been looking through the records: “… in 1999 16 full-timers went to conference as delegates and in 2006 eight full-timers were delegates.” But no member of the CC at that time thought there was anything wrong with that.

This, of course, is the problem for comrades Rees, German and Nineham. The current CC is merely carrying on the good old SWP tradition of bureaucratic control-freakery, of which Rees himself was an expert. As if they themselves would not try to exclude minorities and rivals – we in the CPGB know from our experience in the Socialist Alliance and especially Respect that minorities were frozen out as conference delegates using exactly the same methods as are now being employed against the Left Platform.

It is the same with the LP contention that, “In aggregate after aggregate there has been a concerted operation to stop every supporter of the Left Platform from getting delegated. This is justified on the extraordinary grounds that our conference is ‘not a debating society’ and ‘not a place where we want to go over these arguments’.” That too has been the argument used by the likes of Rees in the past.

And it is parroted by a naive SWPer, “Richard (Coventry)”, who writes: “I don’t think it’s crucial whether or not any Left Platform supporters get to conference, precisely because the debate has been had at the aggregates.” But that is not the experience of John from South London, who is clearly not a supporter of any SWP grouping: “I had my hand up right at the start of our aggregate and at times throughout … but was not called during the 90-odd minutes.”

However, the CC argument is that, “It is vital that we all come to conference united and every member has to do their best to implement the perspective that has been democratically agreed. That is the basis of democratic centralism. We cannot afford to have another year where a small number of comrades continue to fight last year’s battles.”

Note that the CC demands a united conference from the beginning. Not after the debates have been had. Mind you, discussion at SWP conferences does not take the form of motions being proposed, supported and opposed and then put to the vote. There are instead CC-controlled ‘commissions’, which channel what little debate there is along the required lines.

But even this can be jeopardised by the presence of too many awkward oppositionists – controversy and the clear articulation of rival perspectives is the last thing the leadership wants. That would only confuse the naive rookies, whose role it is to be inspired by clear, uncomplicated calls to action. And that too was how comrade Rees saw it when he was the SWP number one.

But now Left Platform comrades complain bitterly when the tables are turned. “Neil (St Albans)” – who is identified by the CC in a separate contribution as LP member Neil Faulkner – claims that “At least three articles submitted to the ISJ [the International Socialism quarterly SWP journal] by members of Left Platform have been rejected” – including a paper submitted by himself.

He goes on: “Despite this the arguments it contains have been caricatured and attacked, both in meetings and in documents … This is a thoroughly undemocratic procedure, since ordinary comrades are in no position to judge for themselves … The same method was employed by the Stalinists against Trotsky in the mid-20s. They refused to publish his work and then denounced him by caricaturing his arguments. It is the method of an apparatus, not that of a revolutionary party.”

It is also the method of John Rees, who, now that he finds himself in a minority, has suddenly discovered that minority rights are a good idea after all. So his Left Platform writes: “If there is a disagreement with the leadership’s perspective, it is not just the right, but the responsibility, of comrades to put their argument. This view was supported at the democracy commission conference … Factions allow comrades to develop alternative positions so that the party as a whole can decide the way forward.

“The central committee have responded to the faction not by facilitating debate, but by personalised attacks, centralising the election process of candidates to conference and campaigning to exclude Left Platform supporters from conference.”

Is this really the same John Rees who previously presided over the SWP’s bureaucratic regime? The John Rees who ludicrously condemned the CC’s democracy commission sop as a “House of Lords”? The John Rees who opposed factions, but now seems to imply that they are a normal healthy component of party life? The (correct) argument above surely applies to permanent, all-year-round factions, not just the three-monthly pre-conference entities that are allowed to exist by kind permission of the leadership.

Intolerance

But pro-leadership comrades have reacted with varying degrees of intolerance. So Raymond, who identifies himself as the Unite fraction convenor, writes: “Comrades in the Left Platform … harbour a fetish for a caricature of democratic centralism, nostalgia for a bygone age of … decisive leadership, where comrades know their place and simply obey the latest commands from the centre.”

John (Home Counties) argues that “this is not a faction at all” because it is a coalition of conservatism and ultra-leftism, while Ged, Adam and Paris from Leeds refer to “John Rees and the renegades and charlatans of the Left Platform”.

Eight pro-leadership comrades from Newcastle allege: “The way that the north-east supporters of John Rees have behaved over the entirety of the past year (not just in the pre-conference period)” has been to avoid debate and operate “independently of the decisions taken in the district”. They have been engaged in “persistent factional activity”. “The Left Platform meeting in Sunderland had the stench of those who had already burnt their bridges with the party.” This is a call for their expulsion if ever there was one.

And surely that is the veiled threat contained in the CC assertion that “We cannot afford to have another year where a small number of comrades continue to fight last year’s battles.” But who is it who determines which battles are those of last year? It is ludicrous to pretend that once conference has taken a decision (especially a conference so lacking in genuine democratic debate as that of the SWP) it cannot be revisited. What if the original decision was wrong? What if circumstances have changed?

Then there is the implication that debate and action cannot coexist. For most of the year the job of the members, no matter how politically experienced, is to unquestioningly follow the leadership’s instructions. In fact all decisions should be constantly revisited and open to challenge, with the sole proviso that this does not actually interfere with the successful prosecution of an action.

What the SWP needs is a totally different regime – a regime based on genuine democratic centralism.

We say:

  • For the right of all comrades to come together in loose networks or disciplined factions at any time of the year.
  • For the right to speak and publish openly in order to facilitate thorough debate and considered decisions.
  • For the representation of contesting viewpoints in all forums, including conference, to be encouraged.
  • Reinstate Claire Solomon and Alex Snowdon. Lift the disciplinary restrictions on James Meadway.
  • Defend John Rees and the Left Platform against central committee gerrymandering.

IB No 3 can be downloaded from the CPGB’s website here.

95 responses to “Most likely none of it's true.”

  1. All factional disputes are going to be bitter and Trotsky , I think, called them war within the party.While the problem with the current SWP faction fight may be a seeming unwillingness to address what may be the underlying politics in dispute I hardly think. an outside platform is going to matter one iota. Indeed it may only serve to inflame the situation.

    After the recent factional dispute in the DSP here in Australia which lasted almost three very long and bitter years, I now think that so much of the passion invested in factional disputes is a symptom of small parties — and the SWP is small as is all far left orgs in the English speaking world — playing at Leninism. Essentially they are the enforced engagements of sects regardless of how good those party’s politics may be.

    Are they worth fighting? They are in the sense that since both sides will quickly up the anti, party work can be grievously handicapped and sabotaged as much by indulgent democracy as administrative action.

    I think we are — us Marxist parties — victims of our own circumstances; and factionalism is yet another product of that. It’s a politcal standard as all disputes so quickly become factional and/or lead to splits and expulsions.

    Look at the SWP dispute. Obviously issues are at stake but it is another matter all together if those issues will see the light of day no matter how democratic the management of the dispute becomes.

    Any one can see that the over riding context is the SWP’s disastrous manoevres and interventions over the last 10 years and backing one horse or the other is not going to resolve that overbearing fact.

    This article by Paul Kellogg — Leninism: It’s not what you think — basing himself on the work of Marcel Liebman — draws our attention to what is a motive force in the new Marxist movement world wide : the practical history of Leniniism — not how it was supposed to apply it by studying the texts alone.

    I think, in the context of the New Left push for broad party regroupments we need to follow Kellogg’s lead and approach our party building less obsessed with intellectual matters and disputation and more focused on reach out and trancending our circle existence.

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  2. So whilst others are attempting to work in a non sectarian manner to pull the walls down, urgently extend honest political debate, respect differences and recognise the need for unity based on principles, others continue the old practices that have resulted in disaster after disaster.
    We must never fall into the trap of rejecting discussion and differences around ideas. We must in fact defend the rights of all tendancies to argue for their positions. It is not about being ” obsessed with intellectual matters and disputation “. The comrade is wrong on this. Ideas are what we are about. Action without ideas, theories and learning the lessons of both successes and failures is a recipe for continuing isloation of the Left.
    We can and must break out of this minisculism by acknowldging, respecting and debating ideas. These do not emerge from thin air, but represent different experiences and dont just go away when conferences finishes.
    A new Left bloc must acknowledge the right to organise and discuss around ideas and to respect comrades in spite of differences. We must also recognise each others positive contributions to the movement.
    We are all capable of political errors and the need for democratic practices are hence even more urgent to act as checks and balances on abuses. The SWP CC are merely continuing a long tradition, which optimistically some of us thought they may be willing to break from. It is never to late to step backwards from what will not only be a disaster for SWP but also for the Left .
    Self criticism must also be applied to all those looking on the situation. My concern is that some will see an opportunity to recruit and at the same time continue bad practices, reinforcing sectarianism, which we must break out of urgently.
    The public appeal must go out to all in the SWP to abandon expulsions, recognise tendancies, discuss and debate openly and work for wider Left Unity. This may be naive and too late in the day but worth stating.

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  3. PS a faction or tendancy is not just for xmas but for the life of the arguement as relevent to the struggle

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  4. external bulletin Avatar
    external bulletin

    As true as the story basically is, they’ve made a really idiotic mistake, which makes them look like they don’t even bother reading.

    The email is NOT from James M. The email from James M simply says something like “thanks for this, it’s great”. And then it immediately quotes Adrian C.

    Here, I’ve dug it up: The names in brackets are me removing the completely identifiable detail included by the SWP in IB3

    From: [james m]
    To: [adrian c]
    CC:[various email addresses]
    Brilliant – thanks v much for all this.

    2009/8/17 [adrian c]
    Hello coms,

    Here’s a pdf report of some of the site stats for STW site over the
    last month. [continues]

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  5. “The SWP central committee has made its intentions regarding the opposition Left Platform crystal-clear.”
    “…. John Rees, Lindsey German, Chris Nineham and their supporters now look set to be charged with factionalism and expelled”

    Oh dear. Given that Lindsey German was one of Cliff’s annointed successors (Harman was the other one), they might well start up the “Continuity SWP”.
    Just what we need!

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  6. Dave Riley’s comments as usual are useful, lets resist SWP bashing and think how the left can be more democratic.

    21st century socialism (much like quality 19th century socialism) based on participation, ecology and pluralism is sweeping much of the planet but needs to grow in the UK.

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  7. I think this statement by alf epitomizes the core and chronic problem (I’ll be kind and assume that alf read the article I linked to):

    “We must never fall into the trap of rejecting discussion and differences around ideas. We must in fact defend the rights of all tendancies to argue for their positions. It is not about being ” obsessed with intellectual matters and disputation “. The comrade is wrong on this. Ideas are what we are about. Action without ideas, theories and learning the lessons of both successes and failures is a recipe for continuing isloation of the Left.”

    I’m not arguing against discussion and rigorous debate; nor am I advocating for the curtailment of democracy. But discussion and debate distant from an active engagement with the “toiling masses” et al is a warped debate, and to project that forth as a quintessential feature of the getting of political knowledge is a recipe for the sort of far left lifestyle we’ve generated these last 40, 50 years. It is the cultural politics of sectdom where political differences are always engineered as shibboleths separating the Marxist left into so many waring segments.

    It’s a my-program-is-better-than-your-program competition such that when it comes to Reese et al — they don’t even have a differential program, just a one plank platform which is substance enough to warrant a faction. Why form a faction? Because that’s the only way that the ‘differences’ whatever they may be, can be sustained and its adherents defend themselves.

    And rest assured all the anti leadership sentiments in the SWP, all the demoralised layers, will be attracted to this platform; all the pent up frustrations will be offered an outlet through this vehicle unless, of course, the present leadership puts a stop to it.In that sense, within the claustrophobic confines of our parties we all play out the same plot. It is routine. That no matter how religiously the “Trotskyism” within us squeals about the democratic right to form factions — disputes tend to always follow the same route.

    You know why factions should be allowed? It’s not because it’s a nice idea to be democratic and we want to all believe in fair play — it’s about getting the doing right. It’s not about adopting “positions” in the abstract. But what happens is that adopting a position becomes more important than doing. It does indeed become an intellectual exercise. It is so often a warped debate.

    And I think our problem is that we cannot see through that without falling victim to fears that we will cease to be revolutionary. It’s intellectural substitutionism in the way that being right is much more important than doing right — thinking more important that action.And “being” right determines who you will work with — or tolerate working with.

    The SWP is a master at this. The schematic world of the SWP is divided up into ‘revolutionaries’ and ‘reformists’; those who support “revolution from below” and those who don’t; Stalinists and non Stalinists; and the classic catch phrases,”thirties in slow mode…” and “united front of a special kind”.! it’s a bogeyman universe where mental gymnastics are deployed to create a sort of virtual political reality which is not fed and sustained by living engagements. I reference the SWP but I think the phenomenon is widespread. And I’m speaking from the subjective experience of the faction fight here and the urgency with which the minority faction insisted on certainties which weren’t.

    It’s political schematism where the far left allows itself to be ruled by a rigid intellectual bookishness when we should be recognizing that “grey is every theory but ever green is the tree of life.” My joke is the that so often the “P” in a contemporary socialist party’s initials — should stand for Proofreaders: socialist proofreaders.

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  8. On the basis that they’ve ripped me off often enough I’m going to break with longstanding custom and reproduce a piece from the Weekly Worker.
    They made you do it.

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  9. Can we reach out to the Left Platform as part of a regroupment of the left and show the reamining rank and file SWP members a way out?

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  10. People allude to the undemocratic, top-down nature of SWP decision making, but this is the norm on the left. Even in parties that allow debate and factions and have democratic elections and so on. The left has been obsessed with “leadership building” as a sort of corollary of its introspective propaganda culture alluded to in comments above.

    It partly revolves around a reductionist understanding of the idea that Cannon put when he said “I believe, that just as truly as the problem of the party is the problem the working class has to solve before the struggle against capitalism can be definitively successful – the problem of the party is the problem of the leadership of the party.”

    You can’t have leaders without followers, it seems. I prefer the IWW notion that we are all leaders. Even with the best of intentions, the pyramid leadership structure of most left parties is the wrong way around.

    Sure, the general membership theoretically directs the whole party at the annual or biennial national conference. But in reality, knowledge is power, and information and discussion in the party is concentrated in the leadership bodies. Said bodies may formally be accountable, but what tends to happen in reality is that ideas are made at the top – perhaps with some consultation with the base units of the party, in the better instances — and then taken down the chain as each tier in the pyramid tries to convince the next tier down of the new idea’s correctness. This stifles initiative at the grass roots of the party.

    The article mentioned above by Paul Kellogg on Lenin is useful because it helps to dispel some of the mythology that this hierarchical leadership structure is the official (eternal!) method of Leninism.

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  11. splinteredsunrise Avatar
    splinteredsunrise

    Cannon of course got his formative training in the IWW, and occasionally spoke of his anarchosyndicalist streak. He’d picked up a few bad habits in the Comintern too of course…

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  12. splinteredsunrise’s and Ben’s Cannon reference raises the clear point that there is an alternative way of doing political business. Cannon more than anyone else laid out the method of the combat party universe. He is very good indeed and much more democratic than even some of his adherents are willing to allow.

    But the collapse of the US SWP into a sectarian frenzy under Jack Barnes’ sponsorship has been cause to consider who much Cannon may be to blame. And in a sense I think what stands out for me is that a lot of Cannon’s prescription were all about surviving the long haul, just as a lot of Lenin’s early ones were about working in conditions of illegality and oppression.

    So you have to step back a bit and consider what is relevant to where you’re at. In that sense I think Paul Kellogg’s discussion on the Organisational Theses of the 3rd Congress is a useful starting point because what we have to deal with is the ongoing pressure for political efficiencies — doing stuff — with the complex mesh of responsibility, accountability, accessibility and discipline that Lenin addressed so well I think in the second chapter of Left Wing Communism.

    In that sense I don’t agree with Ben’s ‘leadership’ solution as it is far too reductionist in the same way that the marxmail chatterboxes think that they have a panacea in ant-Zinovievism. What comrades forget is that being formats form and not being one sort of party and becoming another sort of party isn’t something you suck out of your thumb. It isn’t just a structural thing. It’s every transition is political.

    I guess I’m fortunate as I’ve been able to live in two parties and since 2005, two parties concurrently. I have also logged an on-and-off experience of DSP membership from its formation in 1972 to the present day — often in leadership roles. So I can see differences, changes, nuances… I can see history.

    What strikes me about coexisting membership between the DSP and the Socialist Alliance is how much the DSP has consciously changed under that particular partnership — so changed in fact that come two weeks time the DSP merges into the SA and shuts down its autonomous party organisational structures. And we move from one assiduously developed party form into one that is very undeveloped indeed. So shallow that in the constitional process I’ve been working on with other SA members, we only now, after 8 years, will be introducing an expulsion clause (and that’s partly because the electoral commissions insist on it.) We also hope to introduce an open leadership process that has been applied in the DSP for a few years now, where national leadership gatherings are as broad as they can practicably be.

    But this isn’t a recipe process as so much about any organisational change is about changing cultures — or in the SA’s case, developing them. And all these years in the SA trying to be inclusive and consensual and very accountable has paid off in way of a different organisational experiences and assumptions in play — and, to be frank, many of them are poor and inefficient. To my mind, however, that experience confirms anything I ever learnt about Lenin and the dialectics of ‘Leninist organisation’.

    That doesn’t make the SA a “Leninist party” in the way we tend to understand it nor that it’s on a set course to become one. What it does do, however, is register a determination to forge a party that reflects where we are at and our own current level of trust, partnership, activity and theoretical savvy.* And each year it incrementally changes . The SA began life as a party run by an a unaccountable senate of reps from affiliated organisations and there was one helluva barney involved in trying to change that for the democratic better.

    But in deference to Ben, no matter which way you try to bake it , a leadership has to be the real leadership not just the formal one. On that Cannon was spot on. That doesn’t mean you necessarily get a great leadership or a creative one, but you get the one you deserve. What I think matters is that you learn to respect how fluid that can be as struggles test and throw up new leadership layers who need to be given their head.

    Because that’s what the party principle is all about: leadership — yes even in the SA. Cannon was dead right. How broad that leadership is. How accessible or how many make it up…are corollaries. But any party serious about their socialism knows that your whole future depends on winning new leadership layers. And if you cannot do that and draw them in, you’re out of business.

    So all those who think that the SWP must change should be advised not to hold their breath. While no one organisation form is optional like a wardrobe of top coats, unless the SWP goes about its politics differently there is no motivation to change. It’s a total package — just as the seeds of dedicated sectarianism persisted inside the DSP. ( I have my thoughts on how they survived too)

    And if anyone wants to think that Leninist form protects you from the world — in the case of the DSP, for almost three years democratic centralism did not function during the time of the factional dispute.The lesson being that no matter how engaged you may be or sophisticated with developing principle and organisational practice — come a chronic factional situation you can kiss your functional habits good bye.

    But as I suggest, disputes like that are formatted within a particular cultural/organisational mix. You do, in fact, get the factions and factionalism you deserve.

    * In this sense you need to note that the SA is not just an electoral formation . It is also socialist in intent and anti capitalist in practice with an activist orientation. And factors like that begin to determine its developing form. On top of that the SA is riddled with comrades trained by the DSP who share a skills and outlook subset.

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  13. The picture is becoming very clear. There is no problem and all is well, if only the CC was allowed to run the organisation without any criticism? If only we can abide by some failed model and seek quotes from others to prove we were right in the first place?

    Well we need a radical break from past practices if we are not to lose good militants in their hundreds or thousands from Socialist politics at a time when we need even more.

    The recognition of the right to organise around ideas and to debate views, which reflect different experiences in the class struggle must be recognised both within and outside of the formal organisations of the Left.

    The move to unite the revolutionary Left must be based on principles which uphold best democratic practice, if we are to earn the right to provide leadership.

    No amount of flanneling, pretence or waffle gets away from the fact that some practices have clearly failed our movement and deserve to be ditched. I do not care which so-called past leader said what about democratic centralism. Yes I hear you say herasy and no doubt some will call me reformist for this. Well that is far from the truth. Revolutionary politics needs revolutionary solutions and not answers that have had us stuck in the sectarian quagmire for far too long.

    Perhaps we should say shame on all and rethink. If we are to establish a united Left based on the French or Portugese successes then we need to recognise unity of purpose involves respect for ideas whilst accepting a common programme and rights to minority views. Respect of cdes even with differences is not a luxury it is a necessity.

    A conscientious break from undemocratic practices will put us in a better position to lead the struggle for workers democracy, or is that to be left to the majority on a CC only.

    Irrespective of the outcome of the SWP conference and the direction the Left Platform may or may not take, we need a new approach and not a return to the bad habits of the past.

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  14. I think alf is right. It may be true that there are some things we can learn from previous organisations and I think it is true that the bolsheviks were far more democratic than most modern day trotskyists but it is also true thta we need to re-examine all aspects of our tradition and not be hidebound by them.

    We need far more democratic ways of organising, open debate, campaignbs run democratically and attractive to new owrking class militants,

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  15. Just found this collection of Duncan Hallas speeches on-line. This is I think an important resource because his influence on generations of socialists used the medium of the spoken word much more then the written (although, when he did write, he wrote well). The talk he gave on the decline of the comintern gives a very good version of an argument along the “Leninism is not what you think” argument.

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/hallas/audioindex.htm

    On our internal argument I won’t comment here, save to say that one odd feature of external commentry seems to be about siding with whoever is oppositional on the basis that whoever is oppositional must be the more democratic and open. Whats odd is combining this completely apolitical account with claims about the need for more politics.

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  16. Another odd feature of external commentary seems to be that it’s mostly written by people who don’t know any SWP members in real life to check any of this stuff with. Dave Riley has an excuse for this, I guess, but some ofthe people in Britain really should know better.

    Good headline, though.

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  17. chijh should note that the SWP’s internal bulletins get around and no one is in the habit of letting Weekly Worker rule their POV.

    All the talk about factional disputes from outside any party is going to be run by gossip and manovre-ing leaks. The days of enjoying a closed and respected internal discussion are well and truly over since any one’s opinion was digitalised.

    As for my own opinion of the SWP –aside from hobbyist interests — we have the local franchise here which is usually rather clone-ish especially during these years of English SA and Respect templates. Points of significance in the history of the SA. Nonetheless, the New Zealand IST section –who I have a lot of time for and from whom I have learnt so much — is not like that.

    Weekly Worker’s take is also totally shallow, narrow and myopic seeking to pose an organisational fix it to something that has a broader complexity.

    But as for me shooting my fingers off — I learn a lot from the exchanges in the UK about these ‘issues’ because England, is , to put it bluntly, sect central. How many outfits that went forth to colonize the world for a political brand began life in England?

    Why was that? Why did Ol Blighty spawn so many?

    Another feature of British far left existence that strikes me is its insularity. Regardless of all the perennial claims about internationalism, the English left to a large degree seems to have a genetic inability to embrace humility and learn from overseas experiences. This is sharply drawn in regard to the peoples movement upsurges in Latin America.

    I find that failure utterly amazing. Internationalism isn’t about exporting your template but supporting and working with others and learning from them. And god forbid! You may even be inspired!

    So the dispute in the SWP is of relevance because internationally the IST tends to act as a dedicated obstacle to remaking the left.. And I can say the same about the CWI too. The FI may be a tad more flexible, but it too is stuck in exclusivity mode. and we all, in some way, suffer from Trotskyism’s down side — long march thinking. Its’ the dead hand of Stalinism still resting upon us.

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  18. All the talk about factional disputes from outside any party is going to be run by gossip and manovre-ing leaks. Well, no. If, as an outsider, you actually know members of that party you can have a political dialogue with, then you’ll have a much better sense of what’s really going on. In Australia you’re necessarily restricted to reading the documents and the online gossip – my point was that other commentators in Britain seem no better informed than you.

    In some ways teh interweb makes that worse, not better. For some reason people think that being able to read the documents online lets them know what’s really going on. Back in the days when our IBs were pirated in paper format, much of the rest of the left knew (to quote David Widgery) “that nobody reads Internal Bulletins much anyway.”

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  19. Dave Riley: “Are they worth fighting? They are in the sense that since both sides will quickly up the anti

    unintentional, but entirely apposite typo 🙂

    More seriously, I agree with the broad thrust of Dave’s point that we should build a movement “less obsessed with intellectual matters and disputation and more focused on reach out and trancending our circle existence.”

    The problem more often enough among sects is that their schema replace an analysis of the world, so that every situation invites stock responses. More specifically, the problem here is that, concerning the current dispute in the SWP, it is everyone else who is applying the same old schemas rather than starting with concrete analysis. So the debate becomes simply a re-run of disputes of old, with the SWP characterised as doing ‘the usual old thing’ that it does whenever opposition emerges: calumny and summary execution of the opposition.

    It is this schematicism that leads people into the utter folly of proposing that they ‘reach out’ to the Reesites in the name of non-sectarianism, or, in the case of WW/CPGB, that they bravely step into the breech in defense of the Left Platform.

    The problem is that, although the SWP majority have issues to solve in terms of democratisation and developing a different internal culture, it is precisely the Left Platform that most clearly encapsulate everything backward looking, elitist and authoritarian about past SWP practice. Those of us closer to the ground will know, for example, that it was the duumvirate of Lindsey German and John Rees who most typified the arrogance and untouchability of the SWP CC of old. They may feel that they had been given a permission slip from Cliff to do this, but the responsibility is ultimately theirs. This was true long before it became obvious to the rest of the movement (primarily during the Respect split.) The tragedy (or shame) of it was that the rest of the SWP only took up cudgels against the guilty parties at the point at which the German-Rees leadership had been proven definitively to have failed, and they had no internal purchase that would allow them to address the errors before they began to overwhelm their party.

    The point is that almost all of the criticism and commentary regarding the current split is formalistic in that it assumes a timeless original sin on the part of the SWP that can only be overcome by adopting a different point of view. It would be more fruitful perhaps to start instead with the reality of the changes taking place in the SWP, in which the majority (CC) overwhelmingly have right on their side. That is to say, it is the individuals at the head of the Left Platform who were at the centre of the dirty dealing over SA & Respect, it is they who treated both their own party members and those they were in an alliance with as bit players in the drama of their own leadership. Concretely, I see no alternative but to support the majority in trying to slough off the attitudes that led to the current impasse. Of course it’s not good enough simply to take the ‘lesser of two evils’ approach, supporting the majority uncritically, but rather to use the ideological and organisational fight against the Left Faction also as a moment in the struggle to make wider changes to party democracy, BUT (and it’s a big but) that only makes sense if you take as your point of departure the legitimacy of the majority’s case against the Left Platform leadership. Failure to do this means that the critics remain swimming around in the circle of their own supposed intellectual omnipotence, commenting from without, rather than treating the dispute concretely and building upon the currents in the dispute that point to a way out of the impasse.

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  20. Clearly some are missing the point and do not assume anything. Some of us do work closely with cdes from swp and respect them for their work, irrespective of which side they are on in your internal debate.
    The trajedy is that the debate is reduced down to accusations re emails and not on positions.
    Lets face it, for some of us, and probably most, we wish to work with all cdes irrespective of factions / tendancies and to respect differences.
    The lessons must be learnt by all of us and we do not have much time to do so. We need to ensure all campaigns are organised democratically and not based on the whims of a few leaders. We must ensure they are the property of all members, activists and supporters.
    The answer is not to jump from one campaign to another just to hide failings but to be more creative in the way we work. A few can not substitute themselves for the masses. We must change and not just make general assumptions.
    Irrespective of the outcome of the SWP conference, we need a conference of the Left and especially the revolutionary Left.
    I put it to all that if we do eventually build a larger formation, which I hope, we must accept that all organisations may retain some tendancy structure with their own paper as part of a process of restructuring. If the SWP and others are serious about Left unity will they abandon their organisation to prevent factions. I think not.
    So let us get real, share resources, share common positions and share debates as a first step, whilst working together democratically to build campaigns that take class issues forward.

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  21. Dave Riley – do you have a link for the Paul Kellogg? I remember him doing a meeting at Marxism(’90?) ostensibly about Trotskyists in the Vorkuta labour camp, in which he mentioned that he’d first been attracted to the SWP’s politics because they were the first left group he came across who didn’t come across like the Moonies [I was also in a train carriage once with him and the South African rugby team, but that’s a different story].

    It hardly seems the way to encourage SWP members to debate by stealing their private discussion documents, or being the accomplices in such a theft. You may think it inevitable in the modern age, but someone has to do the stealing, and someone has to decide it’s appropriate to post them. And again, why should SWP members respond to blackmail?

    Raphie – who’s this we?

    It is ironic that after claiming that Rees and German were the undemocratic leadership who had crippled Respect and a faction would emerge in the SWP to ooppose them that accepted the Galloway narrative of the split, the opposite has proved to be the case. I don’t expect any apologies or acknowledgement for this failure of perspective

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  22. “The trajedy is that the debate is reduced down to accusations re emails and not on positions”

    Well thats not how it looks inside the SWP at all. But yes, I’m in favour of working togeather with people on matters that concern the class (and other questions) but do not presume, myself, to lecture the people who I wish to work with on their internal politics.

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  23. Liam – I can only assume you’re trying to boost readership before some contest for most read blogs or something. Or perhaps as a clever joke that’s not really that funny. But, whatever, all the brit left blogs saw how much traffic went to Splinteredsunrise and seem to be emulating him.

    Dave – I have to say that your arrogance in comparing the Aussie SA as a model of success to the “failures” of the SWP is absurd. How many councillors have you got, one? How many members? What important struggles have you led? At least when someone from Respect makes a criticism, they do so from some position of real success and roots. So, a little humility is here in order. And when you say:

    Any one can see that the over riding context is the SWP’s disastrous manoevres and interventions over the last 10 years and backing one horse or the other is not going to resolve that overbearing fact.

    You seem to have forgotten the role of the SWP in the Stop the War movement, in United Against Fascism, in Defend Council Housing, in launching Respect, Campaign Against Climate Change, in strike support work, etc etc. Were these disasters? Absolutely not. Were there mistakes? Of course, some of them large – and there are debates inside the SWP, including a faction – ie. democracy.
    As for Paul Kellogg’s article, you ought to know that Paul was on the IS Steering Cttee (same as the SWP CC) for over two decades, much of it as editor of Socialist Worker Canada. I worked with him closely for almost a decade. If you think that he is outside of the mainstream of the IST on leadership questions he has either very recently changed his viewpoint or you’re reading into his article.

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  24. “by stealing their private discussion documents”

    those concerned admit that the person involved had given the password to the account to other members of the SWP. There is no way of interpreting this except to conclude that permission had been given to access the account, even if they hadn’t counted on particular emails being shared with others. Therefore all the talk of ‘illegal hacking’ by LP supporters is nothing more than posturing and histrionics. No hacking took place, and nothing illegal either. Given that this is the case, and given that the LP supporters involved knew this to be the case, their talk of ‘illegal hacking’ is neither more nor less than a slandering smokescreen intended to divert attention from the fact that in the emails concerned they openly discussed misleading their own party as to their intentions. This may or may not be acceptable to you, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with hacking or the dark arts generally.

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  25. “The trajedy is that the debate is reduced down to accusations re emails and not on positions.”
    Don’t confuse the monomaniacal obsessions of the Weekly Worker with the actual character of the debate.

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  26. To all readers, thanks to Liam we can have a debate. This debate is important and offers lessons to the whole movement.
    Yes we do recognise the work of SWP, alongside many other cdes from many other organisations, who work in the various campaigns mentioned above. Again I repeat ,they are the property of all and not just of one organisation. That is what made the Brent and Harrow UAF initiatives SO SUCCESSFUL.
    Yes both sides in the SWP debate have made errors, so have we all. Now we need to ensure the movement we build does not retain those errors if we are not to repeat them.
    Again I lay down this challenge. If you are serious about unifying the revolutionary left around a principled programme and not just building one element of it at the expense of the movement as a whole, then lets be radical and not resort to conservative organisational structures.
    Frankly to those who say we have no right to comment, well they are being naieve to say the least. We have every right. In fact we have a duty to discuss issues.

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  27. Nobody said you have no right to comment. You can say and write whatever you want. The ultimate decision as to the future of the SWP is the solely the democratic right of SWP members.

    If you are serious about unifying the revolutionary left around a principled programme and not just building one element of it at the expense of the movement as a whole, then lets be radical and not resort to conservative organisational structures.

    You’ve argued this a few times on this thread and, fair enough, that’s what you see as the way forward. But, not everyone agrees with you and those people are also serious about unifying the left. And there isn’t even one model that can be shown to be successful – die Linke, NPA, Left Bloc, SC in Italy and PRC, all have different models, shaped by local factors. People from different tendencies are going to judge them differently – this isn’t about obstinacy or lack of seriousness, it is about real political differences that can’t be wished away.

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  28. Alf I’m entirely unsure what you mean by ‘conservative organisational structures’. There is a debate to be had about how the actually existing left can come togeather. This will no doubt require innovation. The kind of innovation involved will however have to be decided on the basis of the real forces who would be able to make a difference in doing so. To lay down demands about what such organisations have to, or have not to do, on the basis of little more then one’s own individual prejudices, or, as in most of this thread, political misconceptions, is not helpful whether its done by individuals or organisations. One reason why I favour Michael Rosen’s proposal of a federal framework is that I don’t believe that frameworks thought up outside of the interaction of the real forces needed to transform them into something real is very helpful. Whats your position on this?

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  29. The use of the e-mails as a pretty dirty business by any measure, it doesn’t really matter how they were got hold of, they were taken and published without the consent of the person who’s property they were. That is theft.
    What’s more they say nothing. But do provide content for the strange amalgam being constructed by the leadership. What does that amount to? That the left faction were organising a faction.
    Well there’s a mystery solved!
    All the talk about democracy was so much hoo-ha to delude the gullible. We had the same thing off the Workers Power bureaucrats when we were being expelled. They stole e-mails off us too. Its amazing how these things keep occuring huh?
    The innovation that the SWP need to make is the same one that infects the entire left. It is the application of Stalinist organisational methods to a nominally revolutionary movement. It cannot by definition work.
    Let’s take this dispute.
    The Left Faction believe that their perspectives are key to fighting the class struggle over the next year. Reading them, what strikes the outside observer is that they are really not that different than those of the leadership. Its a case of nuance frankly.
    But nonetheless this is a challenge to the right of the majority to control their organisation. That clearly cannot be tolerated. So they must be got rid of. Crushed, defeated, and slandered in the process.
    If the Left faction have got anything about them – and that’s one of those wait and see things isn’t it – they will tell the leadership to go to hell. If somethings worth believing in, then its worth fighting for.
    My guess is that their fate is already determined. So what’s the new group going to be called son – of – No2Respect?

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  30. I do not disagree with the need for an open and perhaps a federal framework, nor do i assume anything. Yes the dynamic of the strruggle and the forces involved will help play a key role in determining this. Nor can it be decided in abstract.
    I do not feel we should be limiting in our approach, nor do i suggest one model is the only way. It will reflect our experiances and reality of the conditions under which we are operating from. Yet there are many we can now learn from to create our own one.
    I just feel we should not exclude any possibilities. Yes ofcourse I respect that it is for SWP members to make their own decisions and I trust that all members will, after having an honest and democratic debate. Exclusions though do not help.
    Late September, SWP cdes initiated a debate on Left unity, with an appeal to others. I hope they reopen this debate and it is not just something brought out for special occasions. Others may have rejected it but then there are many others who want to pursue it.
    No one either suggests that real political differences can be wished away. They have to be recognised, respected and discussed.

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  31. JohnG

    “On our internal argument I won’t comment here, save to say that one odd feature of external commentry seems to be about siding with whoever is oppositional on the basis that whoever is oppositional must be the more democratic and open.”

    I don’t think that is true at all.

    While I don’t have a dog in the race, I personally have made it quite clear that the politics of the Left platform are worse than the cc’s; and Andy Wilson has made the same point from a different perspective.

    So that is at least two different people, who have done the opposite to what you say.

    It should not escapte people’s attention that the left platform are squeeling about discimplinary meaures and that they themselves supported in thr past against others.

    And anyone who reads Alex’s Luna17 blog will get a pretty clear idea where they are going.

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  32. I obviously had not taken into consideration the great helmsman himself or indeed mr.wilson. I was merely referring to the bulk of the discussion.

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  33. I personally have made it quite clear that the politics of the Left platform are worse than the cc’s; and Andy Wilson has made the same point from a different perspective.

    And here’s one more ill-informed outside observer who’s currently leaning slightly more towards the leadership than the opposition. But we can observe the irony in John Rees denouncing organisational sharp practice without denying that the sharp practice occurred – and I’m still concerned about the measures taken against Clare Solomon & James Meadway.

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  34. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    The WW live off the necrotic tissue of bigger organisations, hence the obsession with internal documents and gossip. Perhaps they will put on a bit of weight as a result of the real problems of the SWP, but I doubt that these bottom-feeders will ever hit the big time.

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  35. MVP – that’s a very visual description and, I think, will soon be the premise for a zombie movie: Zombie Communist Rampage. I look forward to downloading it.

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  36. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    Maybe someone will make a film about the WW one day, though I doubt it will break box office records.

    I do think they feed parasitically off the left’s problems.

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  37. If the political positions are what appears in the documents it hardly seems worth going to the trouble of setting up a faction. As Bill says, to the outside observer, the principals agree on the fundamentals and neither side is offering anything terribly different from what has gone before.

    For the sake of balance I’ll draw readers’ attention to the documents of the Fourth International’s upcoming World Congress. These are made public as soon as they are submitted.

    http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?rubrique134

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  38. Well Liam one thing worth bearing in mind is that what positions translate into in practice is something which comrades with experiance of these arguments are probably in a better position to judge. And there is no question in my mind that the positions outlined lead to diametrically opposed paths in practice. Now I can recall an exchange with someone on this thread who suggested that there was nothing more important here then opposed tactical orientation. For me, as a socialist, to have the belief that different tactical orientations are unimportant in a conference designed to decide what such orientation ought to be, is just peculiar. But different political traditions and all that.

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  39. “For the sake of balance I’ll draw readers’ attention to the documents of the Fourth International’s upcoming World Congress.”

    Actually, balance would mean posting the Weekly Worker’s bizarre Jerry Springer-esque interpretation of those documents. (I’m joking btw)

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  40. Mark Victorythingy, normally I am sympathetic to your views, but:

    “The WW live off the necrotic tissue of bigger organisations”.

    We all know most organisations are bigger than the CPGB, but the fuller quote:

    “The WW live off the necrotic tissue of bigger organisations, hence the obsession with internal documents and gossip.”

    Personally I think all ‘parties’ should make their politics public – that means publishing ‘internal’ documents to all. Less ‘gossip’, one would hope.

    Why would I join a party when I do not get a simple, truthful, record of their politics and intentions?

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  41. Climate change 4 comments; BA 5 comments;
    Predictably venomous spat of no discernable significance in Trotskyist minisect attracts 41 frequently verbose comments from various microsects.
    Has Trotskyism anything to do with revolutionary politics any more?
    Is a definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

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  42. I answered this here- http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2009/12/19/copenhagen-fiasco-demands-mass-response/

    Actually the idea that ordinary people can and should take power in thier lives is as relevant as ever. It’s just that some of the groups who claim to be in favour of workers’ democracy don’t practice it.

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  43. Redbedhead — who is a pseudonym not a person — says that I am arrogant to compare ” the Aussie SA as a model of success to the “failures” of the SWP ” In fact it’s supposedly an absurd comparison on my part (when I was talking about party structures and nothing else).

    But my point was to argue for another way to do socialist politics because the far left template engineered out of the sixties radicalisation has entered a cul de sac at a time of broad political openings. Nor am I alone in suggesting that.

    That is what is bearing down on the whole far left at the present time.Even in Canada.We have to work through this by employing some means that enriches Marxism and revolutionary socialism. Ignoring it is not an option.

    If the SWP is guilty of anything, it is guilty in my mind of a succession of engagements: the English Socialist Alliance, the Scottish SSP and Respect , where it consciously worked to sabotage regroupment momentum on the left.

    This isn’t about doing the stuff we all do well (anti war, and the like)– the campaigning and such.It’s about doing something beyond that — which tries to remake the left and make it more politically relevant broader and bigger.And on those terms the SWP has been a massive obstacle.A MASSIVE obstacle.

    Then. after all that, the SWP pre congress debate is as per the factional divide as offered. You gotta wonder: what the f…! Where’s the real debate at?When isit supposed to start?

    I make no apology for my preference to force the issue. I also concede that the examples aren’t fully formed there that can self evidently suggest a way forward. But we can talk about Portugal, France, Australia and Scotland, before the debacle, as examples of political options which we should consider, debate and discuss.

    But if we were really engaged we could also discuss El Salvador , Venezuela and Bolivia and mull over what lessons were on offer from the experiences of peoples movements in those countries.We could also explore the regroupment successes in the Philippines and the remaking of the socialist movement in Malaysia… and in each instance we are in fact talking about a new way to do political business by being open to the experience of others.. That is not social democratic nor Stalinist nor is it a boutique socialism engineered behind a Chinese Wall of shibboleths.

    If Redbedhead wants to turn his back on all that then that’s part of our collective problem.

    There are many debates to be had here about the way forward. There is also the option of returning to the bunker. I think , unfortunately, that’s what the SWP will chose to do.

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  44. There is a depressing descent into small-minded sectarianism going on here.

    I have never been backward in coming forwards with my critique of the organisational practice of the SWP and like-minded groups which are extraordinarily conservative in order to preserve their revolutionary pretensions.

    However without the SWP Stop the War would never have had the backbone of organisation to create, at least 2001-2003, a broad mass movement. John Rees and LIndsey German in particular deserve huge personal credit for this. For an earlier generation it was the dynamism of the SWP that created the ANL and Rock against Racism, the latter far and away the most significant postwar fusion of militant politics and popular culture which no other section of the left has come close to matching.

    And after Seattle despite being weighed down by party frontism Globalise Resistance at least made the effort to connect the organised left to a direct action anti-capitalism and allow in part itself to be transformed by that relationship.

    These should now be in the ‘credit box’ of the SWP tradition. Now many of those involved with these best efforts look to be on their way out of the SWP. Instead of falling for the puerile derision and ‘lets recruit them into our tinpot outfit’ we need a more mature, plural left which accommodates those coming from different traditions. What appears to be at the core of the fallout is a group of highly talented individuals, seeking to develop new ways of doing their politics. Whilst I disagree with their core ideology their practice is richly imaginative. As a pluralist I would hope a wider left will develop from this fallout which can benefit from their contribution, not their predicament.

    Mark P

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  45. Ok I am biased because the Socialist Alliance have the same politics as me to a large extent i.e ecosocialism.

    But their openness to ecological issue, their ability to accept criticism, their engagement with Latin American and indigenous struggles are all big pluses.

    Hugely inspiring to my mind, pluralism is essential and ability to put social change at the core not a particular organisation is vital.

    A more inspiring SWP would be something welcome by many of us on the left and if you look at the trajectory of IS in the USA or the SWP in New Zealand there are some examples to look at.

    Latin America though is where the left is making progress, we should be a little more modest and try and learn some lessons from a continent where despite weaknesses and contradictions the left has grown over the last decade.

    This is incidentally is something the USFI including Socialist Resistance are I think trying to do.

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  46. Dave Riley draws our attention to Paul Kellogg’s article but he is far too uncritical of it (he gives a reference in his first contribution). It is almost hagiographic in its treatment of Lenin and Trotsky. In concentrating on the “democratism” of Lenin in 1905/06 and again in 1922/23 he misses out the “awkward period” of 1918-21 entirely ie the period of growing suppression of internal debate and tendencies within the Russian CP, leading to the ban on factions. This clearly had ramifications in the CPs relationship to the rest of the left as well – left SRs, Mensheviks etc.

    Yes, we can maybe justify this in terms of the situation the Bolsheviks found themselves in – civil war, intervention, threat of counter-revolution. And maybe we could have done no other in the same circumstances but we certainly should not be uncritical or draw unmediated models from this period.

    At the same time Kellogg is overly critical of the 3rd Congress’ theses on organisation, seeing these, rather than the later “Bolshevisation” under Zinoviev as the root cause of centralist degeneration. He over exaggerates Lenin’s critique of them suggesting he was “horrified” when he re-read them in 1922, and that somehow Lenin and Trotsky were distracted when they were originally passed. This is all historical fantasy. Indeed Lenin’s point made in 1922 on them being “too Russian” and the dangers of “hanging it in a corner like an icon” seems to suggest the opposite – that the CI parties were not implementing them properly, not that they were wrong.

    Indeed learning from the Russian model of democratic centralism developed in the RSDLP from 1903-1918 was essential for the parties of the young CI whose members and organisations came from very different tradditions – Second International parliamentary socialism, syndicalism etc. Kellogg for example suggests the “illegal” work regime had little relevance for western Europe – absolutely not true if you look at the history of the German CP for example.

    Or even in Britain where the CPGB suffered serious repression in 1921-22, for example the first Secretary Albert Inkpen was sentenced to 9 months hard labour for merely publishing the theses of the 2nd CI congress. The CPGB almost collapsed organisationally largely because it was structured in a parliamentary and federal way, an organisational method inherited from the old BSP. Thus the reorganisation in 1922, along the lines of the 3rd Congress theses, was absolutely essential for its survival. How this was implemented and used during the period of factional warfare against Trotskyism ie Bolshevisation from the 5th congress on does not invalidate the 3rd Congress theses automatically. This is largely Kellogg’s argument – he is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    How is this relevant today? Well it is clearly relevant in terms of the reforms the “democracy commission” of the SWP introduced and how little effect they have had in the organisation (you can see my take on this at: http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/2896). Typically the Weekly Worker concentrates only on all the anti democratic and factional manoeuvres that are going on at the expense of political analysis – are they capable of it? There are real political debates going on in the SWP, on the state of the working class, how we relate to the crisis, the role of the united front, a critique of softness on the TU bureaucracy in the postal strike etc etc all of which are relevant to the rest of the left and can be learned from.

    The irony is the very centralist constitution of the SWP – factions for only 3 months, no resolutions to conference etc – encourages factionalism and inhibits debate. As someone points out in IB3 if branches were allowed to put resolutions to conference (a basic democratic right surely?) discrete differences could be dealt with without having to roll up everything into a single faction. Something again which is necessary for defensive purposes against an all-powerful CC and its network of appointed full-timers.

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  47. just posted this on socialist unity:

    I think what happened was that the SWP (with its strengths and its weaknesses) was just too small when the anti-war movement broke out. This meant that pressures towards substitutionalism and voluntarism overcame what had been a genuine attempt at re-alignment on the left. These pressures came overwhelmingly from the outside world but accentuated existing internal weaknesses rather then boosting existing strengths.

    The present internal conflict is between those that recognise this and those that don’t, who, in my view, think that the only problem is that people lost their nerve. Hence the strange combination of talk of united fronts combined with sectarian attitudes towards most existing organisations and a wierd kind of hyper-vanguardism that seems alien to the whole IS tradition (and which makes these discussions rather difficult).

    I think this argument needs to be got through to make it possible to play a role in what ought to be the on-going process of re-alignment given the on-going crisis of Social Democracy. So I think the stakes are quite high in current arguments and don’t see them as an apolitical blamegame for the Respect debacle (if this was the case why has it taken so long?).

    In terms of vanguardism itself, my understanding has always been that in modern Britain the aspiration is to organise the already existing layer of the most militant activists into a single organisation, ie a revolutionary socialist party, in conditions were the actual vanguard in the class is actually fragmented and far from cohesive. This is to be contrasted with the belief that ‘the vanguard’ is a set of people with access to sacred texts and a particular reading of them (as opposed to those who think that some texts contain useful hints about how to go about trying to pull togeather the actual vanguard of activists that exists independently of us), or a belief that the existing organisation is, through some sort of magical process, already the vanguard. It is also to be contrasted with the old Social Democratic model which seeks to represent the entire Class and therefore see’s militants who in the day-to-day lead struggles as rivals to be tolerated when grudgingly doing canvassing.

    I see the recent electoral formations as a space which ought to bring togeather the most active militants with many disillusioned with existing social democracy to open up a national space for those whose response to the crisis is to move leftwards.

    Comment by johng — 22 December, 2009 @ 12:29 pm

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  48. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    I think if an organisation wants to have internal documents, it should be allowed to have them. I am frankly suspicious of people hell-bent on getting hold of the SWP’s (or anyone’s) internal docs, and putting them into the public domain. The WW clearly hope to harm other groups by washing their dirty linen in public, whatever excuses about “openness” may be offered.
    Incidentally, I was expelled from one left group (which I will call X) for saying I was a sympathiser of another, which I will call Y. Group Y then wanted me to hand over to them internal docs of X I had in my possession, but I said no, though I was not at all friendly to my former group. Basically, I thought and still think that this trade in other groups’ internal life is wrong.

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  49. Dave Riley’s last contribution shows the limitations of what you can learn about politics in another country from the internet.

    Firstly, the SWP took part in forming Respect in order to take forward regroupment momentum on the left, and took part in closing down the Socialist Alliance as part of the same process. Key components of the Socialist Alliance were actively hostile to Respect, and limiting the damage they could do by depriving them of the SA’s name was part of helping Respect get off the ground.

    By all means attack us for helping to close down the SA, but the logic of that position is that Respect was a political error. You can’t logically attack us for both.

    The SSP is different from both, however. In the SA and Respect the SWP were a large enough proportion of the membership to determine what happened to those organisations; in the SSP we were not. The split in the SSP was a split inside the leading group that had come out of the ‘Militant’ – we were essentially spectators. SWP members did take sides in that split, but if we hadn’t, or we hadn’t been present, essentially the same things would have happened.

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  50. dave r – chjh has adequately answered your bizarre charge of an SWP conspiracy to prevent regroupment. We could, of course, go through other IST groups to demonstrate a flexibility in the face of different opportunities and challenges – whether in Canada, Germany, Greece, France or wherever. None of which is to say that we haven’t made mistakes and plenty of them. My bone of contention is with members of small left groups – and I am part of one myself – strutting about with THE ANSWER (in caps, as you’ve done above) and starting from a strange position of assuming malicious intention on the part of anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
    I’m all for discussing different models and the successes and failures of those models, even of the mistakes that we – and others – have made. I’m not interested in being lectured to about what is supposedly the only way forward when it is still not at all clear, including looking at the international experience. This is not Venezuela or Bolivia, which have particular histories and exist within the context of the broader history of Latin American struggles, capitalist development, imperialism, the history of guerilla struggles, “strong leaders”, etc – which are considerably different to the history of N. America or Australia or Britain or France, etc. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t lessons to be learned or that Venezuela etc can’t provide a certain amount of inspiration. But your use of caps and bolds and assertions about the way forward sounds like what you’re accusing the SWP of: setting up a “Chinese wall of shibboleths.”

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  51. By all means attack us for helping to close down the SA, but the logic of that position is that Respect was a political error.

    I think the lesson that really needs to be learned, particularly (I would imagine) in the context of the current debate within the SWP, is not about the if but the how: how, when, who with, leaving who behind and how quickly the SA was closed down; how, when, who with, leaving who behind and how quickly RESPECT was initially built. If the current debate makes reflection on those questions possible it’ll be really valuable. As I said on another blog,

    “I think if the Socialist Alliance could have turned into Respect in a different way – with a longer timescale, less bold and decisive leadership, and more open discussion – we might have ended up with a really valuable organisation, albeit one which didn’t make quite as big a splash to begin with (bold and decisive leadership is quite good at making a splash).”

    And if that discussion led into some reflection on how, when, who with, leaving who behind and how quickly RESPECT mk 1 was closed down, that might be useful too.

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  52. I would agree with Phil on that. But I also agree with chjh’s on dave r’s contribution.

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  53. Oh and I’d agree with redbedhead.

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  54. I’d also very much like Derek Wall to spell out the lessons we can learn from the movements in Latin America. Not that I don’t think we should. But I’d like to know what he thinks they are.

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  55. Phil – if you think that last bit is likely to happen in a common framework of understanding soon I think you’re over-optimistic.

    bill j – The use of the e-mails as a pretty dirty business by any measure, it doesn’t really matter how they were got hold of, they were taken and published without the consent of the person who’s property they were. That is theft.
    Only if they were obtained by using CS’ password and if it is considered a right for comrades in a revolutionary party to keep their factional activity secret from the party. I am reminded of a recent Galloway show in which he pointed out the hypocrisy of News of the World journalists for attacking Tiger Woods for behaviour many of them engage in, I think the content of the e-mails is far more important than their provenance, and the stealing of internal bulletins a much more unacceptable theft. Do you condemn the latter?

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  56. Mark V says that organisations ought to be able to have internal bulletins and I guess that’s fine and unremarkable but I don’t much see the point.

    Of course sometimes people want to have discussions in a branch for example and don’t expect every single thing said to be broadcast to the world but the whole emphasis on secrecy in left politics is over the top. There can be very specific circumstances where secrecy is required but on the whole debates should be open, public and in front of the whole class.

    I still think internal bulletins and e-mails should be respected but 1) that doesn’t mean they’re a good thing and 2) in the age of the internet they’re not very realistic because leaks will happen- whereas ten years ago they may have got into the weekly worker they’ll now be leaked on socialist unity that’s the only change (though this case seems to be a bit of a throwback in that regard).

    So why don’t we have open public debates with individuals free to form factions. Tendencies and other groupings as they see fit to win working class activists to action?

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  57. Leaks don’t ‘happen’ – someone consciously decides to leak, and someone else consciously decides to publish what’s been leaked to them. It’s a political problem, not a technical one.

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  58. chjh “Leaks don’t ‘happen’ – someone consciously decides to leak, and someone else consciously decides to publish what’s been leaked to them. It’s a political problem, not a technical one.”

    Well may be but there is little reason to keep up secrecy except for the very occasional operational tactical decisions e.g. during a strike, occupation or other action – not for political discussion of a tendency or group.

    Plus I do think that the advent of e-mails and web discussion boards does make leaks more likely.

    Sure they used to happen but (with the somewhat dishonourable exception of the Weekly Worker) prior to mass internet access someone would have to decide to publish it or undertake a somewhat laborious self publication whereas now a few clicks of the button and hey presto.

    So I think it’s out of date but more than that it’s politically redundant and part of the reason many see the left as part of an arcane cult not completely dissimilar to the freemasons.

    Why shouldn’t we have our debates and discussions in public?

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  59. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    Leaks existed before the Internet. When the British left was scarier to the bourgeoisie than it currently is (1970s and early 1980s), its internal correspondence sometimes found its way into the bourgeois press. Perhaps state plants leaked stuff to the newspapers. Or maybe it just came from surveillance. I remember Blake Baker, a Telegraph hack, writing a hatchet job on the left c.1981 in which internal bulletins of the SWP, the then Socialist Organiser and others were quoted. He never stated where he got this stuff from. His general take was that the Marxist left was sinister and he needed to write an exposé. Perhaps he met someone from MI5 for lunch and was handed this kind of thing.
    It is perhaps easier to leak in the age of the Internet, but still, someone has to leak and someone else has to publish it, as has been noted. Saying it’s inevitable is just saying treachery is inevitable.

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  60. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    To add to the foregoing, Baker was particularly keen on publishing bulletins describing left groups’ tactics to be applied to solidarity with industrial disputes. Now you could argue that it is perfectly legitimate for such things to be kept out of the public domain, especially the bourgeois press.

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  61. ermm chjh…leaks do happen by accident. Bob Quick leaked MI6 plans when going into downing street last year; e-mails can be sent by accident (even quite important ones) to large numbers of people;mancini can leak te fact that man city spoke to him weeks ago… you know, that kind of thing.

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  62. “who are we?” – sorry I was so naive in grouping together all revolutionary Marxists together – in groups and as individuals – who genuinely want to transform society putting all personal and political allegiances aside to agree on the key tasks. Sorry again I was in a dream and need to pinch myself more often!

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  63. Internal bulletins are published documents. Private e-mails are not. There’s an important distinction I think. If something is stolen from you, it doesn’t matter how it was obtained. It remains stolen.
    Of course people will keep their factional activity secret – if its illegal to have a faction – they would be stupid to do otherwise. That is of course a good reason for not making factional activity illegal. Then there is no reason to keep it secret.
    The real question is why should factional activity be secret?
    The fetish of unity was introduced into the movement by Stalin. The denunciation of the class character of an opposition introduced sadly by Lenin, when he denounced the Leninigrad metal workers as middle class, due to their support for the Workers Opposition. Surely the most misleading sociological characterisiation in history?

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  64. Well. I wounldnt know the truth of what is really going on within the inner BOWELS of the SWP.Suddice to say it´s not a place I choose to hang out in but it seems from all accounts so far there is at least a stench emimating from some where.

    It coudl be argued that there has always been a stench but that is another matter.

    No one outside on the Left of the SWP should be under any illusions that there ever was a demorcratic culture within the SWP as tooo many organlsations have unduly suffered as a consequence of this most rigid constipated culture and dysfunctional modus operandi.

    Let´s not kid oursleves however it is soleyly the problem of much of the British Left…it´s complare unabiliity and reluctance to allow proper time and consieration and space for thorough democratic participatory debate and dicussion.

    I dont wish splits on any section of the Left but lets hope there are deeper lessons to be learnt here, as we have the past wreckage of the Socialist Alliance, Respect, the Scottish socialist party etc to look back on, as well as the present unsatisfactory evolutions of the no2EU etc formations,to survey and conclude on many matters that bascially there has to be a better way of organising Left organisations and more paticularly Left unity… a thorough going discussion on the Left of such issues as transparency, accountability, internal democratic structures and culture, overcoming deep seated sectarianism and intransigence are highly relevant and most necessary.

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  65. Apologies for the irregular spelling. I blame the virtuallly unreadable keyboard I find myself with in this stuffy internet cafe and my dizzy head.

    “Suddice” should actually read “suffice”, “soyley” should read ” soley”,”complare” should read “complete”, “unabiliity” should read “inability” and “consieration” should read “consideration”

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  66. At least the SWP has got the good sense to revive and transform their website, making it far more interesting and readable than the old fare which was becoming very unappealing and limited in it´s scope and accessibility.

    So glad to see that there ´s still some cretive spark going on somewhere.

    However, It would take far more to convince me and without no doubt many others to return to a Marxism event in the hope of their being genuine democratic discussion and debate but you never know.

    One can but live and love in hope of urgently needed Socialist Left unity, realignment and radical and progressive rethinking and necessary red-green convergence in these lengthy days and nights of global capitalist crisis, permanent imperialist war and looming global ecological catastrophe.

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  67. Of course we need unity in action- for example, a strike.

    What shouldn’t happen is priortising the needs of the unity and control of a left group above and beyond the needs of class struggle- that is sectarianism.

    If there is a struggle then it is vital to have an open, frank and honest discussion about the tactics needed to win in it- not to have clandestine discussions behiond closed doors about what best suits the ‘party’.

    It is that sort of partyism that the left needs to break from.

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  68. Fleabite – by “soley” do you mean “solely”?

    bill j – The real question is why should factional activity be secret?
    Should that be “have to be secret”? Because the SWP has decided in its wisdom, that permanent factions would disrupt its unity. If you don’t agree, you’re free to belong to another revolutionary socialist group.
    Internal bulletins are published documents. That’s a bit of an oxymoron, in my opinion.

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  69. I do belong to another revolutionary organisation.
    If I was in the SWP I would obviously have to decide whether to obey the rules. Obviously if I felt that it was necessary to form a faction to change the direction of the organisation then rules would be no issue. They’re stupid, undemocratic and deserve to be broken. No one who seriously wants to overthrow capitalism could let such as bureaucratic formality stand in the way of what they believe is right. Stalin of course attacked the Democratic Centralists and Left Oppositionists on exactly those grounds. Its not surprising that the latter day officials from the SWP apparatus use exactly, literally, the same arguments. The DCs to their credit told Stalin to get stuffed. The LO were more equivocal. That was a bad mistake.
    There is a clear distinction between a private e-mail message and a published document, internal or otherwise.

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  70. bruno dog – point taken (especially about Mancini – I’m a City fan!) But most of the time when SWP documents are leaked, and then published online, that’s not how it happened.

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  71. I think I knew that.
    I don’t think it’s exactly, literally, the same situation.
    There may be a distinction between the political e-mails of a member of a disciplined party, and the internal documents of a party that it has not decided to publish for the outside world to see, but I think it is almost the opposite of what you think it is. IMVFFFHO.

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  72. I don’t see what discipline has got to do with it. The idea that an apparatus has the right to scrutinize all the private communications of its members is really strange. Historically the idea that it could arose alongside the growth of Stalinism in the mid 1920s.

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  73. Or back to the Jacobins? I don’t find it so strange that a revolutionary organisation should be concerned when it’s members are not pulling in the same direction, or be overly worried about where it obtains information that that is the case.[And it hasn’t been shown there was any e-mail hack]. Rejecting the “you’ve got nothing to hide” concept is reasonable when applied to capitalist law, but I don’t see why keeping their factional activity secret should necessarily be a shield for those you may feel have done nothing wrong, but the party they signed up for does.

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  74. So you’ve no reason to worry about surveillance if you’re not doing anything wrong?
    Now where have I heard that argument before?

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  75. Yes but why should factions be banned? Why should differences of opinion be concealed? Why should debates be had in secret and not openly?

    No one has answered this. For example in relation to how to get unions reorganised and rebuilt or how to fight th elatest cutbacks in education or any other political questions why can’t we have an open public debate?

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  76. Is the skidmarz we´ve all heard so much about on Socialist unity blog ?

    Surely it is and further revelations are pending and pressing about a certain indivduals workings within the SWP in Oxford at some undisclosed point in their most decidedely murky past…apparently?

    Please reveal all skidmarx………dirt and all….. just for the record. The listeners are listening and the watchers are watching and waiting.

    All emails shall be monitored as part of SWP thought crimes programme.CC edit 74/ secret…only kidding!!

    Now did the SWP ever have a soul or even a sense of humour ? Surely the SWP clearly on the skids now !!! Who can save them now? Can Skidmarz save them? Chris Harman certainly cant. That´s a bit below the belt isnt it ? Read all about it !! Chris Harman goes to his grave with inner party secrets left untold. Come on down Chris.

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  77. Jason:
    1) Banning permanent factions has nothing to do with concealing differences of opinion or concealing debates.
    2) Permanent factions are banned because SWPers are of the opinion that the far left is plagued with being a talking shop, and because small groups are notoriously unstable and prone to fracturing as you would know from the fact that your own tiny group emerged from a slightly less tiny group.

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  78. Grubby – I make my living writing comedy so I feel I have a certain professional background to tell you that being a sordid, tasteless asshole isn’t generally that funny. You might want to start with something more your level – say, fart jokes.

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  79. Redbedhead is right on that last point

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  80. Redbedhead
    “Banning permanent factions has nothing to do with concealing differences of opinion or concealing debates.”

    They are connected. You could of course have factions without the ban on public debate.

    It is hard to have public debate without differences of opinion being expressed, without adherents being won and siught to different positions.

    The question s should we fear this? No.

    ” factions are banned because SWPers are of the opinion that the far left is plagued with being a talking shop”

    A classic excuse of the bureaucrat but it does not bear examination.

    Living struggles such as strikes, anti war movements, mass campaigns need different opinions but if camaigns are led for the purpose of building a group rather than building a group being for the purpose of winning struggles and empowering working class people it is easy to see why there is an iron grip on concelaing differences and banning factions.

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  81. One final point before I go on my Christmas break- if tendencies, groupings are banned then they are more likely to take the form of factions and splits whereas a broad organisation that can tolerate democracy and different groupings for unity in action,differences in discussion is more likely to survive and much more importantly be a resource for workers in struggle which is what it (should be) all about.

    Happy holidays!

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  82. Jason – sorry not to try to answer your question until you’ve left the room:
    Yes it’s important for debates about how to build fightbacks etc. to be open, though if there are fears of employers or the state using them to pick off militants sometimes not in public.
    But before that there is such a thing as a caucus, where particular groups thrash out what they want to say in a general forum. There are reasons why such caucuses are sometimes closed, like allowing people to be frank knowing their every word won’t be scrutinised. The same applies to a revolutionary party on a larger scale.

    Grubby Newz – thank-you for providing an example of why socialists might want to have some of their life in private. Yes I was in Oxford SWP at some point, as were Rob Hoveman and Kevin Ovenden, who I had an immense amount of respect for at the time, and don’t wish to reveal anything murky from their past at this time. Apparently Andy Newman’s wife was in Oxford SWP at the time, I don’t know her name, so am unable to provide any further details. Perhaps you could ask him.
    I think setting up an SWP thought crimes programme would be a great idea, I hope they take up your suggestion.

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  83. Bill J’s argument is a bit contradictory. On the one hand he suggests that proper revolutionaries are unconcerned by redtape and would proceed regardless of the opinions of the organisation they are in or whatever hidious hidebound bureacratic rules are enforced by the terrifying oppressors of party central, if a matter of principle was involved. In which case Bill, why shouldn’t any part of the organisation proceed in that way? Up to and including the CC? After all, there is a matter of principle involved and we are weal wevolutionaries!! Your cavilling at the idea of expulsions on flimsy basis is little more then the kautskyite hyena hysteria of weformism!!

    All in all I think its best to have principles suggesting that minorities must abide by majority decisions within certain limits agreed before hand, and trust in the wisdom of collective decision making.

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  84. The CC do. I quite surprised you hadn’t noticed by now.

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  85. Let this be the season of goodwill and blessings for all cdes, c.o. the CC.
    Let the CC look forward to the fact that after January this experience of internal debate and even criticism will not be around for another year.
    Bless all the little tendancies who have the audacity to wish to debate internally ideas in between conferences.
    Peace be on those who accept uncritically the rulings of the CC.
    May ideas and debates only occurr with the blessings of the CC.
    May the rank and file of all groups assert and discuss the Left unity whether those elsewhere are hesitant.
    May the interests and needs of the oppressed and the working class in their struggles against the interest of profit dominate the directions we all take.

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  86. Bill J, your inability to understand whats going on is really quite amazing.

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  87. Unlike you of course.

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  88. Children,children. Now drink your vodka and tell the other “You’re my best friend ,you are”.

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  89. Mark Victorystooge Avatar
    Mark Victorystooge

    Noooo. Alcohol will merely increase the likelihood of mayhem.

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  90. Absolutely. Reading my contributions is like reading the mind of god.

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  91. Someone remarked, I think it may have been on Crooked Timber, that the internet is actually quite a good safety valve for rage.

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  92. Bill is a bit in the old ‘missing the point of whats going on’ mode though it has to be said.

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  93. Liam – when I follow the link I just get a blank page from Socialist Resistance. More than words can say…?

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  94. […] it, in keeping with its bureaucratic nature. The SWP seem to have gone to the other extreme of expelling people for sending emails to each other, discussing policy with a view to securing some vote or other. The […]

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