If it’s in The Times plugging a TV programme it must be true.

image THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.

The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.

Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.

Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.

“To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.

One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.

He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.

John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”

Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.

So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.

Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.

Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.

Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.

“I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”

42 responses to “Marauding imperialist aliens – one more thing to worry about”

  1. Hawking’s can be a bit of a crank sometimes. He thought that when the big bang eventually becomes the big crunch (and this is still suposition) time itself would go into reverse. Dead people would come back to life and gradually get younger until they were un-born, broken cups would put themselves back together, etc.

    Undoubtedly any civilisation that had developed the techonolgy to travel the distances required to make contact with other life forms would be a peaceful, stateless, communist one because if it wasn’t it would have turned its planet into soup first. Of course it is highly unlikely that space travel of the type needed to make contact with other life-bearing planets will ever be feasible and surely the fact that we have not been contacted by superior intelligences proves that already: the universe or universes having always existed.

    As for aliens invading earth for its resources I don’t think we need look any further than global capitalism to see that. Hawkings is projecting.

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  2. Undoubtedly any civilisation that had developed the techonolgy to travel the distances required to make contact with other life forms would be a peaceful, stateless, communist one because if it wasn’t it would have turned its planet into soup first.
    A commonly held view, but if they come to maraud probably means they have turned their own planet into soup.
    the universe or universes having always existed.
    An opinion, not a fact.

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  3. “An opinion, not a fact.” no, its a truism really- since time itself only begins with the origin of the universe, and ‘always’ is a measure of time then the universe really has ‘always’ existed.

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  4. Well Skidward who’d have guessed you were an idealist?

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  5. “…the fact that we have not been contacted by superior intelligences proves that already: the universe or universes having always existed.”
    Well not exactly, because it certainly hasn’t always existed in a form conducive to life.
    So the fact we haven’t yet been contacted, could equally be due to intelligent life being very, very rare.

    Radio transmissions decohere at distances not much greater than 2 light years.
    Yet the nearest potentially habitable extra-solar planet is around 20 light years away.
    On statistical grounds, it’s very unlikely that there is any intelligent life within 100 light years of earth.

    Warp drives defy the laws of physics, so travel between such civilisations would take millenia.
    So I tend to think Alien Armadas are strictly for Science Fiction.
    Google ‘Fermi Paradox’ and ‘SETI’

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  6. “On statistical grounds, it’s very unlikely that there is any intelligent life within 100 light years of earth.”

    A statement that we can probably all agree on ;o)

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  7. RobM – that’s a better way of putting it than David Ellis managed. Still I don’t know if other universes existed before this one.

    David Dullard – see you’re back to putting words you don’t understand in your comments.

    bristolred – it does seem like it some days.

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  8. But Skids there was no ‘before’ in which they could exist. Other universes may exist but by definition they are not part of this universe either spatially or chronologically. Just as you wouldn’t (I hope you wouldn’t) say a parallel universe or dimension was north of, or below, or in front of or to the left of this one, nor should you say it existed in the past, present or future relative to this one.

    On alien life, to add to Prianikoff, humans on this planet have only been using radio waves and making TV broadcasts for a little over 100 years and within a couple of decades we will already have superseded that. Already much of our communication traffic is broadband not broadcast so does not leak into space.

    Assuming our alien chums pass through broadly similar patterns of technology, there is only a very narrow (less than 100 year) window in which their electromagnetic signals (intentional communications or just leaks from their TV) are detectable with our technology.
    So, we are waiting for a big coincidence of the right sort of signal at the right time…

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  9. It is another way of putting it but I think RobM was, rather eloquently as you say, agreeing with my point wasn’t he. Now tell me skidmark what big word do I not understand and how does believing that the universe was created not make you an idealist which you clearly are?

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  10. ros – you assume your conclusion.

    david elliz – many of them,and I don’t think it was(though like anyone with a scietific outlook I allow for the possibility of being proved wrong) so it doesn’t and I’m not (in the philosophical sense, in the political I try to hang in there).

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  11. ABUSE DELETED

    You clearly said that the notion that the universe has always existed was an opinion. That makes you at least an agnostic and as we know agnosticism is disguised idealism so when you say you are not an idealist in a philosophical sense ABUSE DELETED.

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  12. Surprised there has been no discussion here of the movement around Liam’s fellow 4th internationalist, Juan Pasodas, whose work takes on more urgency and relevance given this new scientific thinking:

    ‘He believed that the existence of UFOs demonstrated the existence of socialism on other planets as only a socialist society could produce the technology needed for interplanetary travel. Moreover, he argued that as the occupants of UFOs (who were either socialists from other planets or socialists from a future earth travelling back in time) were advanced communists they should be urged to help lead the terrestrial socialist revolution.

    In his pamphlet Les Soucoupes Volantes, le processus de la matiere et de l’energie, la science et le socialisme (Flying Saucers, the process of matter and energy, science and socialism) Posadas speculated that the reason UFOs do not stay very long is because “Capitalism doesn’t interest the UFO pilots, which is why they do not return. Similarly, the Soviet bureaucracy (doesn’t interest them) as they don’t have perspective.” His work ends by pleading that ““We must call upon beings from other planets when they come to intervene, to collaborate with the inhabitants of the Earth to overcome misery. We must launch a call on them to use their resources to help us.”’

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  13. Now then Adamski, if you insist on snipping whole sections from Wikipedia you really should (a) spell the guy’s name correctly and (b) give those nice Wiki types a name-check ;o)

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  14. Adamski: surely even you don’t believe that beings from another planet that had developed the technology to reach Earth would be anything other than post-historical? Posadas silliness was that he thought it physically possible in the first place and then added a load more nonsense just to spice things up and give it that cult feel.

    During the Cold War aliens from other planets were used as a metaphore by hollywood to warn the population about what would happen to them if a technically superior Soviet Union was allowed to emerge. There could not be and must not be anyone more civilized than the Americans or they’d surely be barbarians.

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  15. too many X-files and Independence days in that shtory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bS1dE0ps8

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  16. But if the magnificent David Icke is correct, the aliens are already here and feasting on nubile young men in the cellars of Balmoral. Icke makes Posadas looks like a pedestrian mainstream plodder. His brilliant insight that British royalty were in fact carniverous Martian super-lizards was clearly correct IN ITS CENTRAL IDEAS. The obvious truth of his theory propelled Icke from ex Hereford United goalkeeper turned snooker commentator to one of the highest paid speakers on the US college lecture circuit. The Anunnaki are amongst us!

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  17. I wonder if it’s any coincidence that both Icke and Posadas were professional footballers?

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  18. Adamski – just to be on the safe side there are two seats left vacant on SR’s national committee in anticipation of our extra terrestrial comrades’ imminent arrival.

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  19. Liam, of course, is referring to the Birmingham comrades who manage to cross light years of interstellar space on nothing more than a pensioner railcard and a super-advance group ticket.

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  20. Bristol, don’t forget Albert Camus too. If we can find a decent cartoonist, we could start a culturo-political fanzine based on the adventures of this quaint trio. We could call it Philosophy Football or something like that.

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  21. Or maybe Theosophy Football? Dodgy ideas, dodgy geezers, dodgy t-shirts ;o)

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  22. David Ellis – “You are a vile little provocateur.”
    Am I really “little”? How tall are you?
    ” You bring nothing to any discussion just your snide outlook.”
    And that’s not enough?
    “The only value anyone gets from your contributions is that we get to know what the SWP are really thinking and how different it is to what they are saying especially in regard of Salma and Respect.”
    I really wouldn’t want to claim to speak on the SWP’s behalf.
    “You are just a toe rag and in reality a troll.”
    I’ve noticed that I’ve literally started sleeping under bridges and turning to stone when the sun comes up.
    “You clearly said that the notion that the universe has always existed was an opinion.”
    I did. So you can read a little.
    “That makes you at least an agnostic”
    No it makes me an open-minded believer in the scientific method, in the same way that Richard Dawkins doesn’t rule out the existence of God if someone comes up with some convincing evidence for one.
    “as we know agnosticism is disguised idealism”
    Joining the dots from a false premiss, you should be writing posts at Harry’s Place.
    “so when you say you are not an idealist in a philosophical sense you are clearly lieing.”
    Can’t spell, can’t reason, can whine a little. As Pat Stack once said of Vegans, why don’t you fsck off back to your own planet?

    LIam – if you find this comment an intemperate reply, may I suggest you delete the Ellis troll’s original abuse?

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  23. `No it makes me an open-minded believer in the scientific method, in the same way that Richard Dawkins doesn’t rule out the existence of God if someone comes up with some convincing evidence for one.’

    That is otherwise known as agnosticism despite your DELETED denial. It is the philosophical outlook of positivism or realism or perhaps you thought Dawkins was a Marxist. I’m afraid you stand exposed as a philosophical idealist and ABUSE DELTED.

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  24. It does make one realise how disappointing Dawkins book about god was. All those pages to conclude that it PROBABLY doesn’t exist. What a waste of effort and time though of course his campaign to keep intelligent design and creationism out of the science class is to be applauded.

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  25. Well, David, if you can come up with any scientific theory that goes beyond ‘probably’ ( or very, very, very, very etc., probably) I’d like to hear it…

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  26. Well Rob, as you know Marxists are philosophical materialists. For them the question of the primacy of matter, its real independent eternal existence and our ability to say something objective about it is settled which, of course, does not mean that it is not necessary to constantly defend the outlook against idealist attacks at every turn.

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  27. Including from aliens!

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  28. DELETED.

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  29. What makes you think I was talking about him?

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  30. Nice one David- you take your materialism on faith (possibly with a pinch of hallowed text) rather than by interaction with the real world! Your materialist convictions exist primarily in your head.

    Personally, I believe in the primacy of matter etc. etc. – that is I think it is very, very, probably true and I live my life on a day to day basis as if it were unassailably true (ie I don’t jump into brick walls at railway stations looking for platform 9 and three-quarters)
    However, if something were to come along to contradict that, I would have to shift my worldview accordingly. That is not idealism or agnosticism, its common sense.

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  31. I have had to chop out some abuse for the first time in quite a while. If it’s repeated comments from some people will be moderated before being released.

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  32. Robm: if you only believe in the primacy of matter and are prepared to countenance the possibility that it might not be the case then philosophically that makes you an agnostic which is a timid idealist and I’m afraid there is nothing you can do to avoid that conclusion without doing damage to long established understandings of these terms. So clearly it is not me that takes my materialism on faith, I am comfortable with the truth of the matter but you who openly states he `believes’. I think Marx somewhere says about atheists believing in the non-existence of god. Negated religion that failed to move on to negate the negation. Marxist are materialists, end of, you rob are not. As for common sense, well I’m surprised you bother with science yours is so advanced.

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  33. billj : who ever knows that you are talking about?

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  34. Liam: What you chopped was seriously mild. Go back to the discussion and you will see where the impetus to turn this discussion into a flame war came from. The same place it alwasy comes from. The stinking non-intellect that is skidmark.

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    1. David – My house. My rulles. At home visitors who want a cigarette have to step outside. It’s the same principle.

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  35. Robm: Of course no amount of evidence or theoretical advancement will convince the idealist that it is reasonable to draw the conclusion that matter is primary over consciousness and of course by not doing so Dawkins makes a massive concession to that idealism as do you I’m afraid. Perhaps if you read a little Lenin or Marx and Trotsky’s In Defence or Engels on the dialectics of nature?

    Apologies Liam: I shall bare in mind that skidmark has special guest status from now on.

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  36. Ooooooooo this is just like Alien vs Predator only with more blood and gore… Only on the revolutionary left, eh comrades?

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  37. David, I know its time to give up when instead of rational argument, someone offers me a reading list.

    But I will leave you to ponder Karl Marx’s motto…

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  38. robm: I’m sorry but you are not escaping that easily. Your sarcasm hallowed texts etc was and is mis-placed. You openly admitted that it is you who takes his `materialism’ on faith and then accused me of doing that. Clearly it is not important to you which side of the idealist/materialist philosophical divide you fall on however it was an always will be to Marxists. I don’t think I’m saying anything too provocative or outrageous by saying that.

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  39. There is a good biographical sketch of Posadas from the FORTEAN TIMES (a magazine that is often more entertaining and enjoyable read than turgid socialist rags + its editor, the vicar on the motorcycle, used to live down the road from me). At the moment the Left is in such a bad shape, maybe it will take an intervention from extra-terrestial communists to set things right . . .!

    http://www.forteantimes.com/features/profiles/180/juan_r_posadas.html

    Interesting Posadaists fought in the Cuban Revolution, but later fell out with the bureaucracy after they led an adventurist march on Guantanamo Bay to forcibly evict the Americans in ’61, later when Che died, they claimed that he wasn’t really dead but was in a secret Cuban Prison jailed by a right wing section of Castro’s bureaucracy.

    LONG LIVE POSADAS!

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  40. robm – Personally, I believe in the primacy of matter etc. etc. – that is I think it is very, very, probably true and I live my life on a day to day basis as if it were unassailably true (ie I don’t jump into brick walls at railway stations looking for platform 9 and three-quarters)
    Actually you don’t have to be a materialist to act like that just have a belief that cause and effect operates on the material plane.

    Adamski – Perhaps when they discovered Che was an alien, the Cubans bought into the Plato Pact.

    Liam – for some people, as Bill Hicks said,smoking shouldn’t just be legalised, it should be mandatory.

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  41. Is Iain Banks a follower of Posadas? His sci-fi books are mostly about a spacefaring communist society called The Culture.

    One of his short stories is about agents of The Culture coming to Earth in the 1970s and having to resist the temptation to interfere by starting a revolution.

    — James

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