Scottish Socialist Party election broadcast
1–2 minutes
21 responses to “Scottish Socialist Party election broadcast”
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How has that bloke managed to steal Andrew Neil’s voice?
This is one of those situations where you can’t quite believe that at least one person in the group ok-ing this didn’t go, “hang on a minute, this is fucking dreadful”.
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In political terms the nationalist left in Scotland ( SSP, Solidarity ) are “fucking dreadful”. Their attempt to split the working class in britain in order to aid the anti working class independence project of the SNP was, and is, a sordid enterprise which, thankfully, is not long for this world
sandy
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His voice is supposed to be annoying. I think his performance is great, it’s not easy to be that smarmy! Sandy mcburney there with another demonstration on how far the technology of robotics has come – it’s the droid that consistently says the same the thing when the appropriate button is pressed
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The party activits where split on liking or not. Think myself could have cut to Colin and Frances who are great speakers with bags of integrity and more concrete demands but the argument is that we engage more folk with the broadcasts. They can go to the party site for a full economic solution. And Sany I remember him a staunch republican in the IMG fighting for the break up of the British Imperial state. Yes as soon as I started redaing his post I knew it was the “new” Sandy. Reminded me of the old Private Eye SWP spoof.
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“In political terms the nationalist left in Scotland ( SSP, Solidarity ) are “fucking dreadful”. Their attempt to split the working class in britain in order to aid the anti working class independence project of the SNP was, and is, a sordid enterprise which, thankfully, is not long for this world”
Yeah just like those dreadful Irish, Indians, Ghanaians, Sri Lankans, Malays, Nigerians, Cameroons, Jamaicans, Kenyans….(gradually fades out).
ABUSE DELETED
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Scotland is not an oppressed nation- unlike Ireland
or do you disagree?
certainly Marx Engels Lenin and Trotsky did not view Scotland as an oppressed nation and they knew Britain well
when did the far left discover that Scotland was oppressed
late 90s when there seemed to be no other game in town
You jumped on the SNP independence bandwagon and thought that being “bravehearts” and fighters for scotland could built you political careers and make you relevant. Jokers
why not call for independence for Flanders? are the Flemish people oppressed?
sandy
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One thing about the left nationalists of the SSP (and Solidarity )is that they will never debate with any of the socialist critics of their left nationalism. Despite all the waffle about new ways of working and having open debates they maintain the old Militant position of refusing to debate with anyone to your left..
They will never openly debate their socialists opponents on the left nationalist call for Scottish independence. if exchanges take place on the internet etc you will not get reasoned debate but just hackneyed phrases re brit unionists. etc. As to why the communist movement opposed Scottish nationalism and the call for independence from its inception up until the change by Militant in 1990s you will not here a peep other than the solitary short lived example of Maclean’s call for a Scottish workers republic in the early 1920s
the left nationalists wont debate because their justifications for championing Scottish independence are risible from a Marxist perspective
sandy
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The Flemish people are probably more oppressed than the Scots. But I take your point.
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What do you expect from a communist block of we where.
Fuck that money glamour got in the way.
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“And Sany I remember him a staunch republican in the IMG fighting for the break up of the British Imperial state. Yes as soon as I started redaing his post I knew it was the “new” Sandy. Reminded me of the old Private Eye SWP spoof.”
RaphieYes in the IMG we supported the struggle against british imperialism in Ireland in the 70s and 80s but we were very much opposed to the call for scottish independence since we understood that Scotland was not an oppressed nation and that the unity of the working class in britain was something to be built rather than destroyed through the promotion of Scottish separatism. So my position has not changed unlike your own. I certainly dont remember you when you were in the IMG ( late 70s and early 80s) raising the demand for Scottish independence. You would have been laughed at
sandy
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I remember standin out side the pubs at 15,trying to hand out snp fliers,when a wusny been chased down the road.
Not much has changed, beside gettin 15 year olds to hand out fliers thats got to be pissin in the wind.Kids what do they know.Not to hand out snp fliers or anyother for that matter.Sandy we have to connect to our youth,there is a serious disconnect there, globally.Yet the ssp have been gathering a bit of a follow.
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Well the problem is that the SSP encourages youth they come into contact with to adopted a left nationalist outlook rather than a socialist outlook.. Society will always produce young rebels but if a socialist future is to become a reality these young rebels have to develop a socialist consciousness i.e. learn to oppose all forms of nationalism and all the fake left politics of the establishment ( including the labour bureaucracy)
sandy
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Sandy; “Well the problem is that the SSP encourages youth they come into contact with to adopted a left nationalist outlook rather than a socialist outlook.. ”
Yeah, the Scottish Socialist Youths are just naive fools, indoctrinated by the party leadership.
You can see that on their blog where they just repeat SSP propaganda day in day out.
http://ssy.org.uk/LikeLike
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eddie
I certainly did not call the SSP youth fools.However the very fact that they are young means that they will tend to be naive. if they are encouraged to think for themselves good but from my experience the young in rightward moving left groups are often used by the leadership to politically attack older dissident members who have stuck to their principles. The young have enthusiasm but lack experience and are thus often more open to manipulation in the hands of the cynical careerist. Youth has its drawbacks!
sandy.
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Well Sandy, if your contention is that the Scottish Socialist Youth have been manipulated by cynical careerists then they are doubly stupid, if you want a career in politics the SSP is really not a very clever choice.
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A better version of the SSP broadcast here, includes option to watch in HD.
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It seems that this guy does not understand that Scottish independence would be a
blow against imperialism and a step forward for the working class and
socialism.He obviously has a blind spot re this, along with many other well
placed figures within the Scottish establishment. It is lucky for us that the leadership of the SSP and Solidarity are more perceptive re the pro socialist effect of Scottish independence due, no doubt, to the penetrative power of Marxism or some other such thingsandy
Independence ‘would cut terror threat’ says expert
Published Date: 02 May 2010
By David Leask
Scotland on SundaySCOTLAND’s leading police expert on the global terror threat says independence
would make the country a safer place.
Allan Burnett, who retired as head of Scottish counter-terrorism a month ago,
said UK Government backing for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had made Britain a
target.The former assistant chief constable in Fife also attacked Britain’s “chaotic”
immigration system and government plans to introduce ID cards.Burnett, a serving officer for 30 years, was speaking after he gave his backing
to the SNP ahead of this week’s general election, telling a meeting in Glasgow
that independence would make Scotland more secure.Burnett said: “The terrorist threat is severe in the UK. That means an attack is
highly likely and we have no warning. At the moment we share that threat as part
of the UK.“A huge issue in causing that threat is UK foreign policy. The SNP’s opposition
to these ill-considered foreign follies is well documented. An independent
Scotland with its own foreign policies could give a much improved guarantee of
safety for us all.”Burnett, 52, has for the last two years played a key role in security in
Scotland and the UK. His job was to co-ordinate intelligence on terror threats
north of the border, working with the Metropolitan Police and MI5, the UK
internal security service.The veteran detectivealso made efforts to reach out to Scottish Muslims as key
allies in rooting out violent extremists.He even got Scottish police to switch places with Muslims in role-playing
exercises designed to let officers know how it felt to be grilled in the
aftermath of the Glasgow Airport bombing in 2007.Many Scots of Pakistani or Afghan background had complained that they were being
unfairly targeted by Special Branch at airports, including Glasgow’s, following
the attack.Burnett has turned out this weekend to back the SNP’s candidate in Glasgow
Central, Osama Saeed, the former chief executive of the Scottish Islamic
Foundation.The retired police chief was also scathing on a range of UK Government policies
designed to tackle the terror threat.He said immigration policy was a “mess” with no regard for either the needs of
the country or human rights.“The priorities and targets keep changing; reorganisations and computer systems
have gone wrong. There has been no consistency of political leadership as UK
home secretaries come and go,” he said.“An independent Scotland could do much better delivering a well-managed
immigration to benefit our industry and agriculture and commitment to human
rights, drawing on our reputation for excellent race relations.”Burnett also blasted ID cards, much vaunted in Whitehall as one of the cures for
terrorism. “Even as the counter-terrorism boss I couldn’t see any benefit and a
whole lot of negatives,” he said.Heaping praise on Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill, Burnett said his
colleagues in England now envied Scottish officers.MacAskill, Burnett said, had quietly given huge support to counter-terrorism.
“In a very unheralded way we received significantly more help to do our job,” he
said.LikeLike
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Sandy,
There are clearly other issues at play than cynical ex-SML members deciding to tail the SNP.
Your narrative is a crude over-simplification.
Do you not think the politicial divergence between Scotland & England, and the democratic deficit caused by the setup of the Westminster Parliament are issues which have boosted the case for indepedence?
On an economic structural level, the decline of state-owned British industries (including heavy industry and manufacturing) and the shift to a finance-based economy with an expanded service sector has had a particularly sharp impact on the Scottish working class.
Of course the ongoing absurdities of nukes on the Clyde, and the disproportionately high number of Scots sent to fight and die in Iraq and Afghanistan, have given rise to a sense of Scotland simply being used by the British establishment.
And you remember the poll tax.
The nature of the British economy has changed and the perceived British unity which may have existed surely had some link to Britain’s benefits from Empire, which no longer exists in the same way.
If the SSP were simply the opportunist nationalists you say we are, do you not think we’d be out campaigning on independence a bit more often?
Yes, it’s a fundamental tenet of our program, but on a week-to-week basis our focus is on bringing troops home from Afghanistan, fighting cuts, etc.
Lenin and Trotsky may never have said that Scotland was oppresse,d but so what? Times change. Scotland and England’s divergence as political entities has been clearly underlined through the limitied scope for policy change in the Scottish Parliament.
As a democratic demand and a step towards socialism, the demand for an independent republic is a healthy one.
Call me naive, but I just do not recognise your oft-repeated condemnation of the independence demand as being necessarily fractious for the working class.
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James
a few small points but i will write more later
In the 60s and 70s we on the far left fought for a workers government as the way forward. This was abandoned by the SSP when they rejected the idea that the working class movement in Britain could take power and instead argued that the way forward for workers in scotland was to support an independent capitalist scotland as a step towards socialism.
there is nothing “democratic” in the demand for Scottish independence. Most Scots oppose independence and furthermore such a demand is an attack on the unity of the working class in britain which is the only class that has and will fight for democratic reforms. If a independent capitalist scotland was achieved it would be by politically fracturing the working class in britain and increasing the hold of scottish nationalism over a large section of workers in Scotland. Thus the working class movement would be weaker since it would have been won to support the anti working class project of the SNP and everything points to an independent Scotland under the SNP as being an undemocratic capitalist “paradise”
The demand for a republic is a democratic demand but a call for a british republic is to be preferred since it tends to unite the working class in britain rather than the separatist call for a scottish republic which acts in realityas a left cover for the pro capitalist pro neo liberal project of the SNP (who as you know do not support a republic)
All the victories the working class in Scotland have achieved has been in joint and common struggle with workers in the rest of britain against british Capital and this includes the struggle against the poll tax. The unity of the working class was achieved by 200 years of joint struggle against the british boss class and its state. It was not given to us by british imperialism as you seem to suggest
The new Tory government will be launching an attack on the working class in britain and it will face a fightback by the working class in britain which will again pose the potential for a workers government in britain. Scottish separatism will again be used by section of the boss class in an attempt to undermine that common struggle by dividing workers on national lines
sandy
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“There are clearly other issues at play than cynical ex-SML members deciding to tail the SNP.
Your narrative is a crude over-simplification.”
JamesThe formation of the SSP project had a backdrop of the following
1) Defeat for the working class in britain exemplified by the defeat of the miners strike. Defeat of the left project in the labour party ( the bennites) and the rise of new labour. Defeat of any left split from the labour party- the SLP. These defeats tended to atomize the working class and make the project of the working class taking power in britain less realistic
2) rise of a section of the Scottish establishment who supported the Scottish independence project fronted by the SNP. This project was a neo liberal independent Scotland within the EU and with low tax for big business in particular the finance sector who were to be the engine of the Scottish “Celtic tiger”.
3) The successful promotion by scottish militant labour of Tommy Sheridan as a popular working class hero during the poll tax campaign and the belief among the SML leadership that his public profile could be used to launch a populist left party that would take votes from both SNP ( independence) and old labour ( socialism)
The SSP project was born of defeat and despair at the prospects for the working class movement in britain. Rather than confront demoralization at the potential for socialism the SSP has increased that demoralization
sad but true
sandy
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Liam redux 
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