How combative should the new Respect be? If for example, a majority decides to support Ken Livingstone, should his positions mark the left limit or Respect’s public profile? One of his supporters, commenting on this site listed some of the reasons for supporting Livingstone.

“The pressure for more affordable housing, his opposition to racism, his tough stand against Islamophobia, his opposition to the war, to new nuclear weapons and nuclear power, his big public transport subsidy and proposal to tax 4×4s.”

Land_Rover_Freelander_2_LR2_1.jpgYou can really say no to any of that, except for maybe the bit about taxing 4x4s. Torching them would be better. We can debate whether of not to do it with the owners still in them. But these positions fall down on a number of counts. The first is that they are easily containable with the New Labour framework, as Livingstone demonstrates. A lot of Lib-Dems wouldn’t find much to quibble with either.

The next hurdle is that they lack real content. A radical programme would prioritise the construction of council or social housing rather than limit itself to setting targets for developers and councils. It’s true that on anti-racist issues, other than justifying the execution of Brazilians he remains better than most prominent Labour figures. It’s relief to know that he’s against new nuclear weapons but why are the old ones so much better? As for the big public transport subsidy that seems to be paid by the people who travel on London’s abominable and extortionately priced transport system.

Livingstone is the bureaucrat’s favourite lefty. He can be relied on to express pretty decent opinions on Venezuela or the war but he has long since ceased to be a politician who actively takes the side of workers in struggle unlike for example John Mc Donnell. This is where Respect needs to be start getting its ideas straight about how it relates to figures like him. While it may be an unpleasant necessity to give someone like him a transfer vote in the mayoral election and completely justifiable to have him on platforms speaking against the war or in support of Cuba he is not the sort of figure who is likely to be part of a long term realignment of the British left.

A very similar problem crops up in the unions. Some trade union leaders have taken very good positions on a range of issues. Billy Hayes comes to mind. But if there were a group of Respect supporters active in the CWU they should be reaching out to union activists who organised against the deal rather than the sections of the leadership who supported it. Both of these camps include Labour members. One of the features of the new Respect will have to be that it is willing to have a public disagreement with union leaders who let down or sell out their members. It will need to combine this with organising to fight for leadership positions in unions as the class struggle pole of attraction.

We also need to be clear that it needs to develop a programme which is more far reaching than simply opposition to war and privatisation. It needs to have a clear class struggle, socialist content and this is not something that Labourism has traditionally burdened itself with. The one thing that Respect has consistently got right is its refusal to compromise with British imperialism. That’s a gain that has to be preserved. It’s also one that has to be expanded. The love affair with Britain’s imperial mission has always been one of Labourism’s most nauseating features. If Respect wants to be a class struggle, socialist party one of the elements of its political culture has to be the preservation of its rejection of imperialism and imperialist war.

One of the first jobs Respect’s new leadership gave itself was to open up a dialogue with other sections of the left. That will be a complicated process but the strategic vision behind it needs to be more radical than the politics of Labour’s soft left. The political space for it does not exist. We already have a soft Labour left, personified by Ken Livingstone. To be successful Respect’s public profile and political programme has to be that of a radical, socialist, ecological, class struggle party. We don’t have one of those yet.


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37 responses to “A combative Respect”

  1. Is the Respect Renewal Standing Order form (on the left), a Renewal of a standing order to Respect or a Renewal of a standing order to Respect Renewal – its not clear.

    Or am I just being pedantic?

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  2. Excellent position paper, Liam. I think our branch will be happy to lend its support to that in future debates within RR.

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  3. Liam writes: ‘The first is that they are easily containable with the New Labour framework, as Livingstone demonstrates.’

    Of course, the notion that Ken Livingstone’s politics are within a New Labour framework is fantasy. New Labour has been forced to accept him as mayor first because he defeated them at the ballot box, in 2000, pushing their candidate into third place, and then because his support remained at such a high level that they would have been defeated, again, in 2004 and therefore readmitted him.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics/story/0,,1188100,00.html

    The issue that Liam got wrong in his previous post on this, housing, continues to be got wrong. http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/the-livingstone-problem/
    He argues that: ‘A radical programme would prioritise the construction of council or social housing rather than limit itself to setting targets for developers and councils.’ This is ignoring what is actually happening and relying on impressions.

    Livingstone is indeed prioritising the building of affordable housing (both for rent and with shared equity). He has done this by using the planning powers available to him (as by law he has had no direct housing powers). This has involved changing planning law in London to increase the amount of affordable housing developers must provide within new development, a planning framework that local authorities must not flout. He has fought those councils that have tried to evade their responsbilities.
    http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=13393

    Contrary to Tory arguments, this policy has increased both the supply of housing and the supply of affordable housing – ie the construction of social housing. Now, the government has devolved housing powers to Livingstone, both extending his planning powers and giving him control of a housing budget. http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=13712

    The progress that Livingstone has made is under threat from the Tories, who oppose the affordable housing policy he has introduced, wishing to remove the pressure on developers and local councils to deliver more affordable homes. Boris Johnson’s speech on this is here: http://www.backboris.com/news/Housing_Vision_Speech.php

    The Tories’ attack on this policy is why George Galloway is dead right to set this out as a key dividing issue in London politics. This places him on the side of the vast majority of Londoners who require more affordable homes and would stand to lose from a right wing Thatcherite like Johnson in charge of public transport, for example.

    It has been argued on the previous thread that ‘voting for KL because he’s not as bad as a Tory isn’t really that motivating an option.’ Of course, this is wrong. A defeat for Ken Livingstone would be a defeat for anyone who wants a mayor who carries out solidarity with Venezuela and opposition to the blockade of Cuba, a defeat for people who wants a mayor who will oppose neo-con policies in the Middle East and who will vigorously oppose Islamophobia. This is why Muslim organisations have already set out why they support Livingstone’s re-election:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1994672,00.html

    A defeat for Ken would be a defeat for anyone who wants a mayor will defend multiculturalism, campaign for lesbian and gay rights, or stand up against racism.

    Moreover it would be a defeat for the majority of Londoners who are not Tories and want continued investment in the bus service, a mayor who will back the Living Wage rather than oppose any kind of minimum wage at all. It would be a defeat for every family benefiting from Livingstone’s abolition of bus and tram fares for under-18s, every person on income support who benefits from the agreeement with Venezuela that has led their bus fares to be cut. These are issues on which there is a sharp divide between Livingstone and the Tories.

    Contrary the claim that arguing for a vote for Livingstone is merely the same as arguing for a vote for the Democrats against the Republicans, Livingstone’s is the most left wing administration by far in British politics today. Furthermore he is widely seen internationally as a leading progressive politician – on Venezuela and Iraq, yes, but also on such matters as climate change and transport policy.

    Not being able to see this reality, and unite with it as part of the left wing within London’s population against the Tories, is to opt out of real politics.

    In Time Out today, Nick Cohen writes: ‘Go LibDem, Green or Tory if you must. But don’t vote for this wretched man. He has betrayed the honour of the British left.’ Nick Cohen hates Livingstone because on the issues that count Ken Livingstone is on the right side. Giving succour to the Nick Cohens of this world by refusing to stand up to their rotten position on the forthcoming mayoral election, refusing to resist it and politically and organisationally defeat it, is not left wing at all.

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  4. First of all let us be clear how serious this fight is.

    Livingston will almost certainly win the first preference ballot over Johnson, but the situation with second preferences is very dangerous.

    In 2004, UKIP received 193159 second preference votes, and Norris lost by a margin of 171084 votes

    UKIP’s star has waned and there is no Euro election. If JOhnson seeks to win the hard right second preferences then he may well win.

    The mistake Liam makes is not relating seperately to the planes: ideological, political and organisational.

    Politically Livingston’ strategy has been to not have confrontation with central government, but to achieve the most that can be acheived within the envelope provided by New Labour, this is similar to the approach of Rhodri Morgan. There is a marked contrast with this and the behaviour of many other Labour controlled local authorities, who are indistingusihable from the Tories. The tanglible policy issues where Llivingstin stands to the left of JOhnson are of real consequence, even if we would wish to go further.

    Ideologically, Livingston stands for a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic city, that is seeking to tackle cimate change, and which is responsive to the populatioon of the city rather than big business. As such he is the most senior elected politician in the UK to have a broadly progressive ideological stance. It is ultra-left to think this doesn’t matter. A victory of Boris JOhnson would shift the entire ideological climate to the right on climate change, race and democracy.

    It is bizarre to think that Livingston’s weaknesses over tube privatisation and defence of Ian Blair outweigh this. Especially as the running for Ian Blair’s resignation is being run by the right wing, who want a less liberal chief constable.

    Organisationally we need to look at what it means for the left. The most important reservoir of personnel, finance and expertise that the working class has are the trade unions. There is a structural antagonism between the labour government and the unions that is being teased out over time. BUt the bulk of union activists will identify more with Livingston than the far left. Similarly a number of BME organisations support Livingston. Strategically we need to be positioning ourselves within this progressive block, not outside it.

    The future is being the most leftwing part of the politically relevent mainstream, not the most rightwing part of the ultra-left flotsam and jetsam.

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  5. The last point there is actually quite important. The overwhelming majority of organised working class people in trade unions in Britain will be pro Ken – especially due to initiatives such as the living wage he has been involved with.
    Unite even gave him their first membership card!
    To cut the left off from these forces – and even having a dialogue with them – by not firmly organising against a Johnson victory would be a disaster.

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  6. Birmingham Respect Member Avatar
    Birmingham Respect Member

    The real consequences of abstaining (or worse) on the question of whether Ken Livingstone is re-elected are ably set out by Ellis MacGowan above. Those of us outside London have plenty of reasons to be concerned with this issue. Ken can only be defeated by a Thatcherite Tory, and the implications of that would go far beyond London.

    In addition, this raises a very important strategic question for those of us wishing to renew Respect. It was clearly expressed in Salma Yaqoob’s document on the challenges for Respect: “In building Respect we have to act in a way that strengthens this broad progressive constituency [for peace, equality and justice] and does not divide it”.

    I agree entirely with Andy’s last comment: “The future is being the most leftwing part of the politically relevent mainstream, not the most rightwing part of the ultra-left flotsam and jetsam.”

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  7. Sorry, can`t support livingston ,my 27 years as an RMT activist prevents me supporting someone who attacks our members when they are on strike. Also Liam states he would like to burn 4×4 drivers in there cars! i know good trade unionists who drive a 4×4 so shame on you.

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  8. Ellis where we differ fundamentally is on the issue of whether or not New Labour is an adequate political representation for the British working class. My view is that it’s not and I want to build a mass class struggle, socialist organisation which breaks from Labourism. It’s not clear that you do.

    Part of this process in the emerging new formations, like Respect Renewal, will be a discussion around how to relate to figures like Livingstone in elections like the one next year. That was my intention of putting up this post. I don’t see it as a decisive issue. If we lose the argument inside RR it’s no big deal. The discussion was worth having. It was exactly the sort of discussion the old version of Respect didn’t feel necessary. Those sort of decisions were made elsewhere.

    I do disagree with Salma’s formulation quoted by BRM. “broad progressive constituency [for peace, equality and justice] and does not divide it”. It leaves too many questions unanswered.

    At times it is right and necessary to stand against Labour. If that is dividing the progressive constituency so be it. If an anti-war union leader sells a rubbish pay deal we have to take him to task because we are in the business of creating a new leadership.

    Steve – I didn’t mean the bit about burning them.

    All – don’t put more than 2 links in comments. They get caught in the spam filter if you do.

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  9. There is one very simple political and electoral strategy for the GLA elections which no one seems bothered to mention.

    In 2004, less than a year after being formed Respect candidate Oliur Rahman achieved an impressive 13.5% of the vote in the City and East London constituency, coming third. Now whatever the strengths and weaknesses of Livingstone all would agrtee that the Labour GLA group is poor, really poor, solidly Blairist-Brownite and nothing like Ken’s remaining red bits.

    To pour all resources and activism into a campaign to win the City and Eatst London GLA seat has four advantages. First it is winnable, unlike the mayorship! Secondly, the costituency is centred on Tower Hamlets, Respect’s past and present stronghold, a constituency-wide camnpaign coold only strengthen a likely 2009 General Election campaign in the constituency. Third, Respect would in all likelihood be contersting the seat against a strong BNP campaign, we would be challenging any ambitions they might have for the white working-class vote. Fourth, there are none of the implications which some genuinely fear of being seen to oppose what the general public still regard as a Leftwing Labour London Mayor.

    Concentrating all our efforts in London on the City and East London constituency GLA seat is at least a credible alternative worthy of consideration. A Mayoral campaign, whatever the arguments about Livingstone is really all about a propaganda canmpaign, electoralism of the most crass kind even when wrapped up in a leftist gloss. A City and East London constituency campaign is about deepening our roots in a community where we already have a base, tthis is effective, credible electoralism. I know which I favour. Forget about Livingstone, think about the kind of Respect Party you want it to become, that should be the issue under discussion, and on this basis I would suggest the City and East London case is very strong indeed.

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  10. Mark I completely agree with you about City and East, (where by the way in 2004 the BNPgot 8% and UKIP 9.1% of the vote).

    This is in agreement with the main argument that Salma made that we should concentrate on a strong GLA campaign.

    But who is the selected Respect candidate for the constituency? There really do need to be negotiations with the SWP-Respect over these London elections. And if they won’t negotiate they are being very foolish.

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  11. It’s perhaps understandable that Birmingham and Swindon based Livingstonians would not be well acquainted with the state of London transport but Ellis McGowan, who’s familiarity with the outpourings of Ken’s press office suggests more than a passing knowledge of London’s city hall, must have experience of the daily commute.

    First the good news – yes there has been a real step forward with cheaper bus fares and free travel for kids.

    But for the vast majority of workers in the capital their primary dependence on public transport is to commute to work. Unless you have a boss who really doesn’t care when you turn up or you are lucky enough to work locally to where you live – this means by tube.

    This is now outrageously expensive (increasing year on year above the rate of inflation) both relative to other cities and to what it used to be. If you live in zone three – where there are many very poor working class communities – a monthly 3 zone oyster card whacks in at well over £1,000 a year. For that princely sum you now have a highly stressful and often difficult journey: trains too full to board, packed in like a sardine when you do get on, frequent hold ups due to technical failures. Tube travel is worse now than at any time I can remember in the past 4 decades.

    Whilst Ken would say the blame lies elsewhere – the problem is that his congestion charge has placed a load of extra people on public transport without ensuring there is the capacity to carry them. Transport is, after all, the one area of policy that, as Mayor, he has most control over. Yes he can be praised for a marginal reduction in pollution. But ordinary Londoners pay a heavy price for that.

    McGowan says “Of course, the notion that Ken Livingstone’s politics are within a New Labour framework is fantasy.” But many more will have seen Ken as outside the New Labour box when he first got re-elected than do now.

    The general presumption was that he was bound to be rejoining Labour with a view to making the best of the many cards he held (Labour needed him far more than he needed Labour). Tragically that hasn’t been the case. Support for a living wage as an example of his left credentials is stretching it. This is a commonplace across the labour movement from right to left.

    The real problem is that he hasn’t used his considerable profile to further the battle against neo-liberalism. He may be taken to task for not backing his own workforce but at least one can see a conflict of interest. What price is there to pay for supporting striking civil servants or post office workers?

    His uncritical embracing of the Olympic project might include small detail conditions about wages and employment – but isn’t he just one of the flag wavers for the construction companies and media conglomerates that are making billions out of this jamboree while locals will be left with little? Why is he so often seen talking up massive office blocks and not doing walkabouts with tenants in run-down housing estates?

    The fact is that, unlike left Labour MPs, he has deliberately and publically provided support for the Blair and then Brown administrations – at times when they have been on the ropes over the war, funding scandals and news headlines about a yawning inequality exceeding that under Thatcher.

    There might be some sense to rejoining Labour if he was associated in the slightest way with some attempt to organise the left, but he hasn’t. If he backed John McDonnell he kept it a secret. And his backing for Cruddas was so middle of the road as to be indistinguishable from a raft of left-Brownites.

    Of course, against Ken’s unforgiveable backing for the Met over the De Menezes shooting and the Forest Gate raid – there is some good to him: his opposition to war, attacks on civil liberties and racism.

    But the question needs asking: what is the point of these good positions if the one time when you are in a position to take a stand against the war on terror (as opposed to engaging in soap-box speeches) you place yourself in the front line of defending it’s hard end?

    Livingstonites will make little progress in their campaign unless they address these issues – instead of labelling critics of Ken as fantasists and “opting out of real politics”, as McGowan does.

    A political discussion has to of the warts-and-all real Livingstone – particularly if it is to make sense to those outside the charmed but declining circle of the Labour left or Ken’s employees, advisors and appointees.

    This is particularly true among Respect supporters for whom, as Liam says, our whole purpose is to creat a socialist alternative to Labour that will challenge neo-liberalism.

    And I can’t think of a less attractive argument to Respect activists right now than suggesting that policies should be determined by whatever gets the Muslim vote, rather than thrashing out the correct policies and then building support for it in all communities.

    Finally – can we find some Livingstone backers who are at least willing to post comments under their true names? You’re hardly going to be sacked for backing the Mayor are you? It undermines your argument that masses of London lefties love him.

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  12. Piers, at the policy level Livingston’s administration is not as progressive as we would like.

    But i think you need to compare it with Labour administrations around the rest of the country, where there is almost no difference between them and the Tories. Despite its weaknesses, the Livingston administration is broadly aligned with the agenda of the wider labour movement.

    However, context is everything. The real world attack on Livingston is coming from renascent thatcherism in the person of Boris Johnson.

    I am convinced that while there are many things wrong with Livingston, and he does largely work within the envelope provided by New Labour, there are still policies to be defended, even if we also wish to point out he does not go far enough.

    But at the ideological level, we compare Livingston’s commitment to multi-culturalism, to Boris JOhnson’s talk of Pickaninnies, and Water-melon smiles.

    Compare Livingston’s support for venezuela, with Boris Johnson’s talk of South Africa now suffering the tyranny of majority rule.

    And this doesn’t just affect Londoners, as mayor of London JOhnson would shift the entire national political spectrum several notches to the right.

    The importnat thing here is to ensure that Llivingston doesn’t lose. Any campaign needs to make that a priority. And if we don’t then we are cutting ourselves off from the best instincts of the majority of labour movement activists.

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  13. Piers I’m not a ‘Livingstone backer’ but I do believe there are a variety of ways of contesting the GLA elections. Standing for Mayor is gesture politics mixed with crass electoralism, the main argument being that it raiuses profile via leaflet through every London letterbox. Thats good propagandism, bad politics.

    In London our core base is Tower Hamlets and Newham. With the impact of the fallout there plus likely General Election in 2009 this has to be the overwhelming geographical and political priority. If Lindsey German wants to stand for Mayor, fine. RespectRenewal should put all of its resources and effort however into the City and East London constituency seat where we would have a good chance of an excellent vote, possibly winning and a poor new Labourish opponent.

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  14. Piers

    I also had a horrible commute to work today but it simply isn’t true that Ken has failed on transport policy.

    The thing that can be improved in the short term is the bus service, and it has, massively. Also he has given considerable budget support (partly thanks to the Green Group on the London Assembly) to cycling which has seen a massive increase in cycling too.

    The other thing needed to improve capacity is massive infrastructure projects, and that takes longer. But Ken is embarking on the biggest set infrastructure projects in living memory. It is all put at risk by a Tory Mayor.

    Finally yes peak time travel is expensive, but Ken reduced fares in other areas and on balance, I support his sense of priority. Tube travel is free for all under 10. And for everyone else, outside zone one any tube fare is one pound on oyster after 7pm weekdays and at weekends. Wasn’t that Lindsay German’s policy in 2004?

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  15. Mark P

    I deliberately didn’t address the issue of what Respect should do in the Mayoral contest because my argument was that before you can even start considering that you need a proper and critical discussion about what Ken represents politically. Irrespective of the contest Respect will need to have a discussion about him – particularly if, as we hope, RR is to make real strides towards reaching out to the wider left. Whatever my criticism of Ken I’m sure we would need to work with and reach out to his supporters, particularly in London.

    Andy

    My starting point – against “Ellis McGowan” – was that this analysis should be frank about his limitations as well as his benefits – something that you, and I’m sure the majority of “livingstonites” in RR would readily agree with.

    Correspondingly it is wrong, as “McGowan” and to some extent yourself do, to falsely polarise the debate into a dichotomy that paints all critics as either right wing, giving succour to the right or not on this planet.

    I deliberately chose the issue of transport because not only is the area Ken has most control over it is the issue over nearly 3 decades he has chosen to make his own. But also for the average working class Londoner I’m afraid the differences are relatively small.

    Dan

    Free tube travel for under 10s is great – but it’s marginal (a weekend trip into town by the family is a bit cheaper). The bus improvements, as I noted in my original comments, are real. But the cheaper fare structure is mainly going to benefit those who don’t already commute (and therefore don’t have a monthly travel card) or who are lucky to commute locally. If you need the travel card to go into or across town everday then you will be paying the same hefty price irrespective of whether the busses are cheap or not.

    There may be more busses on the road but very few people would use those for commuting.

    Wouldn’t a radical transport policy look like Rome – where private transport is BANNED

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  16. in the city centre – or Perth in Western Australia where busses in the centre is free.

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  17. Piers, absolutely agree on the need for a crique of Livingstone. But my point remains that there a number of credible electoral options for the GLA, concentrating soley on do we/don;t we stand in the Mayoral election seems to me to narrow the debate, and I continue to contend that the City and East London option has a huge amount going for it.

    As far as I’m aware none of those, including me, doubting the worth of standing in the Mayoral election, are uncritical of Livingstone, so to characterise us as ‘Livingstonites’ is somewhat disingeneous and unhelpful in terms of the need for a measured debate on the options.

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  18. The point of standing in the Mayoral election is you get mentioned on a leaflet to every household in London and increased media profile. Therefore standing in the mayoral election raises your profile for the GLA election. Respect would be shooting itself in the foot if it abstained.

    If Respect don’t stand a mayoral candidate they would minimise media coverage and have a lower profile than the BNP, UKIP, Christian Peoples Alliance Green Party etc

    For example, in Wales, Respect contested only two regional lists – South West Wales and South Wales Central. Parties such as the miniscule SLP and CPB who contested ALL the regional lists got way more coverage than Respect from the mainstream Welsh media.

    I expect the same would happen in London.

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  19. Piers: On the subject of public transport could you give more examples of the Rome example.

    Even in the UK, some city councils operate limited city centre free bus services (Huddersfield springs to mind).

    See:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-fare_public_transport

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  20. Mark P

    I didn’t characterise you as a Livingstonite and indeed, although I don’t accept that we should back Livingstone against Johnson, as I indicated above I wasn’t suggesting that all who take that position are Livingstonites.

    However there are Livingstonites within Respect – certainly message posters who offer uncritical support for or robust defence of Livingstone against all-comers. There are others who have consistently motivated support for him whilst being willing to countenance criticism (like Andy).

    Actually what I would like to see is an opening up of the discussion – away from a strict for and against dichotomy as a more useful route to a conclusion on the Mayoral issue.

    I fully accept that it is possible and perfectly reasonable to propose a tactical position of not opposing Ken for mayor – without politically endorsing him, which I take it is your position. That is by no means a straight forward issue for Respect and likely to be the main debate. If we did end up backing that position it would be readily reconcilable with a critical stance towards Ken and one that, therefore, Respect as a whole could work around despite some (those wanting to back a candidate against Ken) disagreeing with the tactic.

    Adam J

    I’m sorry, I’m not an expert on transport policy and have done no research on this. I happen to have visited Rome a number of years ago and noticed how much more pleasant and traffic free it was compared to my previous visit (a much bigger change than the congestion charge has brought to London). The advantage of the Rome comparison is that it is a major capital city. The downside of the comparison is that the private traffic-free area is restricted to the small central area.

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  21. “The point of standing in the Mayoral election is you get mentioned on a leaflet to every household in London and increased media profile. Therefore standing in the mayoral election raises your profile for the GLA election. Respect would be shooting itself in the foot if it abstained.” Adam J

    That is a credible position if you see standing in elections as primarly progagandist. I would hope that RespectRenewal would break with this version of an entirely apolitical crass electoralism. Instead it should face up to the potential of deepening and extending its base in East London by putting all the effort into the City and East London constituency seat. I am yet to hear a sinlgle argument why this wouldn’t be by far the best use of our resources and politics.

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  22. In reality, one page in a booklet of 15 (??) other candidates for mayor makes almost no difference, particularly in an elections which will be increasingly dominated by realisation it is a close two horse race with candidates who are extremely far apart.

    Respect are not large enough to impose itself on the mainstream political agenda, and the marginal advantage of standing a mayoral candidate is at a very high politial cost.

    Concenrtrating on giving labour a real run for their money in City and East would be more fun, and politcally more effective.

    Remember the dynamic of Germany, that the PDS used their ability to win first past the post consituency seats in Berlin to overcome their nationally much lower profile.

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  23. “an entirely apolitical crass electoralism” (Mark P)

    electoralism surely is subordinating all other goals (including if necessary policy objectives and alliances) to the goal of getting candidates elected. The three main parties and, to an extent, the Greens are all electoralists.

    If anything in the recent past Respect has bent the stick too far in that direction – not in the sense of policy and alliances being compromised but reducing national and regional goals to winning a handful of “winnable seats”. Yes we should go for those, but not at the expense of a strategy that builds the organisation more broadly (recruiting, fundraising, organsational consolidation, propaganda, campaign work and activism etc).

    And how can standing in this way be “apolitical”? If, as is quite possible, you garner 50-100,000 votes across the capital you transform the idea of a left alternative to Labour from fledgling on the margins to serious player. This effects the weight it is given, the attention it receives etc. quite apart from serving to broadcast the Mayoral manifesto policies far and wide. Above all it helps to galvanise and give confidence to those tens of thousands across the capital who are looking for this alternative.

    What you are really saying is this is “crass”. In other words you don’t agree with the strategy.

    There is, of course, an entirely separate but serious question of whether there is a credible candidate. I’m genuinely open-minded on that one and don’t think I am yet ready to announce support for Lindsey German. Whether she is a credible candidate depends on what support she has and what her candidacy represents.

    The fact that she is in the SWP and their side of Respect in itself is not an argument against her, but the split has badly damaged the viability of her candidacy.

    My preference would be to start a dialogue with a range of forces around the left, including for instance the RMT, and use the process to further the realignment that RR seeks to foster.

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  24. It entirely depends upon the nature of the campaign. If there is a left campaign, central to it must be ensuring that second preferenves go to Livingston.

    Arguable a camoiagn that engerised those alieanted by coonventional politics coudol actualy increase the numbers voting, and therefore boost Livingstin’s secind preference vote. I have no confidecne that si the sort of campaign Llindsey German would be running.

    BUt the SWP need to talk to us, and explain what they are intending to do, as part of negotiations over the name, etc.

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  25. Crass electoralism? What I meant by this is that the central argument most give for standing in the Mayuoral election is the dubious advantage of being one page in a 15 page multi-candidate manifestop popping through every London letterbox. It is the profile in the Mayoral ection that gives Lindsey German (or a Respect Renewal candidate) topping the Respect list a meaningful chance of a GLA seat via the list system. Without standing for Mayor, no chance. This is an entirely apolitical, electoral decision.

    On the other hand Respect (both wings) has a substantial and deserved base in Easr London. It has a real chance of a decent vote, possibly even winning, against a solidly new Labour GLA candidate and taking on the BNP vote amongst tyhe white working class. In an ara in 12 months tiome we will be hoping to win MPs too. Or there’s the prospect of a derisory vote – possibly destructive- vote for Mayor in a London-wide election with no prospect of building on an existing base.

    I just see no case at all being offered against targeting City and East London. And this has nothing really to do with Livingstone. Right now , whoever is Mayor this is the best option.

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  26. From what I know Housing is as critical an issue in London as it is in Birmingham, and I find all this blather about affordable social housing and shared ownership a right wing cop out from Livingstone and his supporters.

    The quickest, cheapest and most effective way to make a dent on the Housing cris is to build Council Houses. But that requires rejecting the neo-liberal parameters enforced by Brown.

    As for Birmingham Respect members concern that a Boris victory has implications far beyond London, hasn’t he already noticed Birmingham and a large swathe of Local Government already have the Tories in power.

    Respect should clearly campaign in the Mayor and GLA elections on issues such as the Housing crisis, privatisation, etc but call for a second preference vote for Livingstone. If Livingstone is losing votes to the Tories it is because he and the government he supports are failing working class people.

    The fact that appears RR are in the process of backing Livingstone just reinforces the view the the split was indeed a left/right issue.

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  27. “The fact that appears RR are in the process of backing Livingstone just reinforces the view the the split was indeed a left/right issue.”

    Er no. Its a tactical decision in place of crass, apolitical electoralism. Can Respect attract a significant vote, build on existing bases, broaden and deepen that base for the 2009 General Election and stand a chance of winning on a militant manifesto of increased ciouncil housing, against PFI in City and East London.Or a derisory vote in a Mayoral election. Its nothing to do with left/right.

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  28. Piers

    the expensive travelcards you are rightly concerned about are the only aspect of the fares structure that Livingstone does not have a free hand at, because travelcards must be set in agreement with the privatised train operating companies, and Livingstone’s relationship with them is not good. We might criticise him cosying up to Brown, but he hasn’t cosied up to TOCs, so you need to cut him some slack there. That is why travelcards are increasing in January despite Livingstone generally imposing a fares freeze.

    I take your point about the limited effectiveness of free tube travel for under 10s, but only if you treat it in isolation. free bus travel for all under 16s, 50 percent bus fares for those on income support are all policies praised by poverty campaigners.

    We can agree or disagree about the effect of Livingstone’s transport policies on working class Londoners but surely we can agree in terms of both investment and fares policy, public transport is under serious threat from Boris Johnson?

    PS agree about making more of central London car free

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  29. Now both Digger and MUon have argued that the fact there is a debate in RR about the London mayor is evidence that the slit with the SWP was a left/right split.

    This really is desperetaly poor reasoning, as the debate is within RR, not between RR and the SWP.

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  30. Mark P – why on earth should targetting east London be in anyway counterposed to running a mayoral campaign? They would work on different levels but complement each other. I think you have set up a false counter-position.

    Andy – I would agree with second preferences going to Livingstone and I think you are right that from his viewpoint it would probably bring in more votes. Surely it’s a win win proposition for the left (as it was with the Socialist Alliance campaign). I also agree it depends on having a credible candidate, with credible support and a credible campaign.

    Dan – in my original posting I mentioned that no doubt Livingstone would say the blame lay elsewhere.

    The point is that the net result of his policies is that millions of people are having a more stressful and miserable experience getting to work each day at much greater expense than before he was Mayor. Now some of that is a product of his policies, some of it isn’t. But it can’t be argued is that somehow 8 years of him in power has much more than a marginal difference to most people.

    I accept, as I did from the outset that the free and cheap bus fares are good news, but this is marginal. Most people don’t commute by bus. They are in many cases tied into a travelcard that is horrendously expensive and makes reductions in bus fares irrelevant.

    It’s only a benefit for those who don’t use travelcards.
    This will include those not in work or working a 3 day week and children. These are real and important. But they represent a marginal benefit.

    And this is fully in line with Brownite new labour (tax credits, pulling a few hundred thousand out of poverty when millions are still poor and inequality is worse than under Thatcher).

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  31. No.

    There are six millions bus journeys every day, double that of the tube. I don’t have the figures for numbers of bus tickets sold every day (I don’t work for the GLA or TfL) but it is simply incredible to say that his policies on bus fares or outer zone fares are marginal.

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  32. Piers – it could or could not be a false counter-position.

    Right now Lindsey German is the SWP-Respect candidate for London Mayor. Will Respect Renewal back her – actively or pasively? Find a candidate of its own? Or seek a joint candidature, say with the RMT? None of that has been decided yet.

    In the meantime we hava strong base in East London, which needs to be deepened and broadened, we have at least two parliamentary candidates in the area for a 2009/2010 General Election selected in winnable seats. We could select our City and East London GLA candidate now and start campaigning for him or her. That should surely be the immediate priority.

    The decision on the London Mayoral election needs to be made. It may be a serious RR campaign, a joint campaign, a paper campaign, backing another party’s candidate, backing LIvingstone. There are a range of options. Then we decide whether theres a choice of priorities to be made. But nothing, nothing at all, should hold up selecting the City and East London candidate and commencing campaign. On past results we have a serious chance of winning this seat, or at least a credible showing, so why the delay?

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  33. Contrary to SWP nonsense there are only two kinds of united front. The united front from above and the united front from below.

    Respect is small and in no position to make united fronts from above with anybody but it can, by supporting Livingstone, make a united front from below with the mass of the working class who will be voting for him to keep the Mussolini-like Johnson out. By doing this and openly explaining why you can legitimately ask for and expect support from workers in your East End strongholds for the GLA elections.

    Workers will not appreciate people playing politics with the mayoral elections for `propaganda’ purposes but a serious effort to get socialists into the GLA where they can expose its reactionary nature and lack of real power and begin enunciating a genuine socialist programme will be respected.

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  34. “a serious effort to get socialists into the GLA where they can expose its reactionary nature and lack of real power and begin enunciating a genuine socialist programme will be respected.”

    Precisely. And a serious electoral effort has to be entirely focussed on the City and East London GLA constituency seat. Leaving the SWP-Respect Mayoral candidate Lindsey German to pick up a derisory vote in that contest.

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  35. David – BJ is not exactly in Mussolini’s league just yet and the situation we are facing is slightly different. Introducing hyperbollock exaggerations is entertaining but not enlightening

    .
    Mark has put his finger on the problem and that is how do we approach the tactics of building a class struggle vote. That’s not one of your priorities and it’s not done by building uncritical support for KL either.

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  36. “Mark has put his finger on the problem and that is how do we approach the tactics of building a class struggle vote.”

    Thanks Liam. It would be most interesting to hear how Respect Renewal members in Tower Hamlets and Newham regard this idea, a tactical decision to put all our effort into mounting a credible challenge to win a GLA assembly seat by standing a candidate in the City and East London constituency , rather the derisory vote either a Respect Renewal candidate or the SWP-Respect Lindsey German wil win standing for London Mayor.

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  37. Of course whilst this debate is going on the real election battle is already taking place, with a vicious three day campaign in the London Evening Standard attacking black community organisations and activists, showing that Compass were quite right to produce their dossier of Boris Johnson’s hard politics – Johnson’s candidacy has indeed opened up a deeply reactionary and right wing agenda. Apparently it is ok to call black people ‘piccaninnies’ or refer to South Africa under Mandela as tyranny of black rule, and when black people argue back they are told they are all stooges of the mayor.

    A vile, disgusting, back-to-the-eighties campaign is being waged by Johnson and the Standard.

    Those who are relaxed about this fight – such as arguing ‘If that is dividing the progressive constituency so be it’ – are stepping outside of a brutal and important argument between left and right that is taking place right now.

    More on this here
    http://www.londonforken.co.uk/?p=29#comment-19

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